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The Sporting News: P5 Divide Now evident in hoops
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CliftonAve Online
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The Sporting News: P5 Divide Now evident in hoops
http://www.sportingnews.com/amp/ncaa-bas...ssion=true

In a nutshell, Mike Decourcey argues "the worst teams in major conferences no longer stink". The schools in the P5 have such a disparity in resources that the strong recruits are choosing even the worst P5 schools over non P5 programs. There are several quotes from recruiting analysts who indicate the recruits are well aware of the "levels" and want to play at the "highest level"/P5.

He does state with the exception of UC, UConn, Wichita State,, Gonzaga (along with a few others on occasion) the rest are pretty much screwed.
02-14-2018 04:37 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: The Sporting News: P5 Divide Now evident in hoops
And we will see the result of that this year, when the number of multibid conferences shrinks even further. [/i]
02-14-2018 04:53 PM
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tcufrog86 Offline
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RE: The Sporting News: P5 Divide Now evident in hoops
The move of a lot of programs from the traditionally strong mid major conferences to the P5 or other basketball leagues who are traditionally strong with multi bids (A10, AAC, Big East) doesn't help the trend.
02-14-2018 05:03 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: The Sporting News: P5 Divide Now evident in hoops
One quibble with the thread title: the column makes it clear that it is referring to the divide between the *six* power conference (the P5 plus the Big East) compared to everyone else and uses St. John's as a prominent example of how it's the worst team in the Big East yet still beat Duke and Villanova in the same week.
02-14-2018 05:11 PM
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Bogg Offline
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RE: The Sporting News: P5 Divide Now evident in hoops
(02-14-2018 05:11 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  One quibble with the thread title: the column makes it clear that it is referring to the divide between the *six* power conference (the P5 plus the Big East) compared to everyone else and uses St. John's as a prominent example of how it's the worst team in the Big East yet still beat Duke and Villanova in the same week.

Yea, thread title is (likely intentionally) misleading.
02-14-2018 05:27 PM
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CliftonAve Online
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RE: The Sporting News: P5 Divide Now evident in hoops
^^ You too need to grow some skin. Excuse me for not including the BE. It is just easier to type P5 vs. P5+BE.
02-14-2018 05:57 PM
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gosports1 Offline
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RE: The Sporting News: P5 Divide Now evident in hoops
(02-14-2018 05:57 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  ^^ You too need to grow some skin. Excuse me for not including the BE. It is just easier to type P5 vs. P5+BE.

maybe type P6 I'm sure we would all know who 6 is referring to! (even if p5 is a fb term)
02-14-2018 05:59 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: The Sporting News: P5 Divide Now evident in hoops
So the "complaint" of this article is that teams like these that "no longer stink" are now trying to win at basketball, and that the internet and recruiting services make it easier for any coach to discover players that might have been ignored by power-conference teams in the past.

Those are not just men's basketball issues -- one could easily make the same observations about women's basketball, baseball, softball, and other sports.
02-14-2018 06:09 PM
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Captain Bearcat Online
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RE: The Sporting News: P5 Divide Now evident in hoops
In the last five years the Missouri Valley, A-10, Mountain West, and C-USA lost Xavier, Butler, Creighton, Wichita, Memphis, and Utah. These 6 teams probably averaged 3 bids in most years. Those bids are no longer going to mid-major conferences.

But it's not because the remaining mid-major schools are any further behind. Rather, the remaining mid-majors (with the exception of Gonzaga, Dayton, and a few more) never had the fan support or resources to compete. They just used to get routinely blown out by the Butlers and Creightons who dominated their conference.
02-14-2018 06:27 PM
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RE: The Sporting News: P5 Divide Now evident in hoops
(02-14-2018 06:27 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  In the last five years the Missouri Valley, A-10, Mountain West, and C-USA lost Xavier, Butler, Creighton, Wichita, Memphis, and Utah. These 6 teams probably averaged 3 bids in most years. Those bids are no longer going to mid-major conferences.

But it's not because the remaining mid-major schools are any further behind. Rather, the remaining mid-majors (with the exception of Gonzaga, Dayton, and a few more) never had the fan support or resources to compete. They just used to get routinely blown out by the Butlers and Creightons who dominated their conference.

Not true. The Missouri Valley and all but a few programs in the Atlantic 10 were very competitive.
02-14-2018 06:38 PM
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RE: The Sporting News: P5 Divide Now evident in hoops
(02-14-2018 06:38 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-14-2018 06:27 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  In the last five years the Missouri Valley, A-10, Mountain West, and C-USA lost Xavier, Butler, Creighton, Wichita, Memphis, and Utah. These 6 teams probably averaged 3 bids in most years. Those bids are no longer going to mid-major conferences.

But it's not because the remaining mid-major schools are any further behind. Rather, the remaining mid-majors (with the exception of Gonzaga, Dayton, and a few more) never had the fan support or resources to compete. They just used to get routinely blown out by the Butlers and Creightons who dominated their conference.

Not true. The Missouri Valley and all but a few programs in the Atlantic 10 were very competitive.

In the last 10 years- Wichita and Creighton have gotten 8 NCAA tourney bids. the rest of the MVC had gotten 6 combined.

Also I would add Temple to his list. The A10 losing Xavier, Temple and replacing with VCU and Davidson is just not a wash at all whatsoever(not even taking into account George Mason)- and would even add Butler to those that they lost.
02-14-2018 06:51 PM
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YNot Offline
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RE: The Sporting News: P5 Divide Now evident in hoops
(02-14-2018 06:27 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  In the last five years the Missouri Valley, A-10, Mountain West, and C-USA lost Xavier, Butler, Creighton, Wichita, Memphis, and Utah. These 6 teams probably averaged 3 bids in most years. Those bids are no longer going to mid-major conferences.

But it's not because the remaining mid-major schools are any further behind. Rather, the remaining mid-majors (with the exception of Gonzaga, Dayton, and a few more) never had the fan support or resources to compete. They just used to get routinely blown out by the Butlers and Creightons who dominated their conference.

No doubt. Realignment hasn't been kind to the Missouri Valley and A10.

The MWC's problem is that UNLV, San Diego State, and New Mexico have been down the last 4 or 5 years. I don't think it's because of a comparative lack of resources...but more on poor coaching, watered down schedules, and P6-leaning NCAA selections. These schools still beat out most P6 teams in attendance and have some pretty decent recruiting classes.

I note that UNLV has two 4-star commits in its current class and its leading scorer and rebounder this season is a 5-star player; SDSU is #61 in the current rankings (ahead of at least 18 P6 programs) and has 4-star players on its current roster.

Last year's recruiting rankings saw Western Kentucky and UNLV in the top-20. Memphis, Cincinnati, and Buffalo also grabbed top players. Saint Louis, SMU, Houston, Temple, UTEP, Tulsa, VCU, and even Middle Tennessee and Stephen F. Austin had recruiting classes as strong as (or stronger than) many P6 programs.

If you look at the 2018 team recruiting rankings, you see Rhode Island, Wichita St., UConn, Harvard, Santa Clara, Gonzaga, Saint Louis, UNLV, Houston, and Buffalo have grabbed 4+ star talent. UAB, San Diego State, Old Dominion, USF, Buffalo, UCSB, UMass and even ECU are beating out plenty of P6 programs.

As mentioned in a previous post, it appears the article's author puts too much focus on some upset wins - like St. Johns' wins over Duke and Villanova - to try to prove an overstated perspective.

The author could have focused his analysis on Temple's wins over projected 2-seed Auburn and 3-seed Clemson...or SMU's wins over 4-seed Arizona and USC and created a completely different story line.
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2018 07:11 PM by YNot.)
02-14-2018 07:00 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: The Sporting News: P5 Divide Now evident in hoops
(02-14-2018 06:51 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The A10 losing Xavier, Temple and replacing with VCU and Davidson is just not a wash at all whatsoever

???

In each of their first five seasons in the A-10, VCU won at least 25 games every season and played in the NCAA tournament every season. Xavier has 4 NCAA appearances in that 5-year span.

Davidson has 3 NCAA tournaments in that 5-year period. Temple has only one.
02-14-2018 07:01 PM
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RE: The Sporting News: P5 Divide Now evident in hoops
02-14-2018 07:06 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: The Sporting News: P5 Divide Now evident in hoops
(02-14-2018 07:00 PM)YNot Wrote:  The author could have focused his analysis on Temple's wins over projected 2-seed Auburn and 3-seed Clemson...or SMU's wins over 4-seed Arizona and USC and created a completely different story line.

He could have, but has he really overstated things that badly? I'm not sure.

E.g., SEC basketball was Kentucky and 13 basket cases a few years ago, but since the schools got together and said they had to get serious about basketball and throw some of that football media money at it, it's worked, the SEC has gotten a lot better.

And that has to have come at someone's expense.
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2018 07:27 PM by quo vadis.)
02-14-2018 07:26 PM
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RE: The Sporting News: P5 Divide Now evident in hoops
@Captain Bearcat

Wrong, not enough are on the upswing. Much of the A-10 has been virtually as good as the current Big East. One that had been down until recently (by that, I mean they weren't actually making the NCAA's) was Rhode Island who is now actually is taking bids. Charlotte used to routinely snatch bids, whether they needed it or not. UConn, UCONN is down and so is Memphis and Temple. The entire MWC is down, including UNLV, Utah State, San Diego State and New Mexico. I'm sure I'm missing many others.
02-14-2018 07:29 PM
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RE: The Sporting News: P5 Divide Now evident in hoops
(02-14-2018 07:01 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-14-2018 06:51 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The A10 losing Xavier, Temple and replacing with VCU and Davidson is just not a wash at all whatsoever

???

In each of their first five seasons in the A-10, VCU won at least 25 games every season and played in the NCAA tournament every season. Xavier has 4 NCAA appearances in that 5-year span.

Davidson has 3 NCAA tournaments in that 5-year period. Temple has only one.

Since they left the A10, Xavier is 4-4- and a lock for 5-5. VCU is 4-4 but won't this year. Davidson's 3 appearances- 2 of those 5 came in the Southern Conference. They are 1-3 and won't make it this year. Temple is 1-4 but could easily make it this year.

And sorry but if you think Davidson and VCU are remotely close to Xavier and Temple- I don't know what to say. They aren't.
02-14-2018 07:39 PM
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RE: The Sporting News: P5 Divide Now evident in hoops
(02-14-2018 07:06 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  The FBI would agree.
https://twitter.com/mark_schlabach/statu...3751358465

I’ll be surprised if one of the non-P5 schools listed as an outlier isn’t caught up as well.
02-14-2018 07:45 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: The Sporting News: P5 Divide Now evident in hoops
(02-14-2018 07:39 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(02-14-2018 07:01 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-14-2018 06:51 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The A10 losing Xavier, Temple and replacing with VCU and Davidson is just not a wash at all whatsoever

???

In each of their first five seasons in the A-10, VCU won at least 25 games every season and played in the NCAA tournament every season. Xavier has 4 NCAA appearances in that 5-year span.

Davidson has 3 NCAA tournaments in that 5-year period. Temple has only one.

Since they left the A10, Xavier is 4-4- and a lock for 5-5. VCU is 4-4 but won't this year. Davidson's 3 appearances- 2 of those 5 came in the Southern Conference. They are 1-3 and won't make it this year. Temple is 1-4 but could easily make it this year.

And sorry but if you think Davidson and VCU are remotely close to Xavier and Temple- I don't know what to say. They aren't.

You're letting this season's results cloud your judgment. Any conference that includes teams that don't play FBS football would love to have VCU. Before this season they had 7 straight NCAA appearances including a Final Four.
02-14-2018 07:48 PM
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RE: The Sporting News: P5 Divide Now evident in hoops
(02-14-2018 07:01 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-14-2018 06:51 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The A10 losing Xavier, Temple and replacing with VCU and Davidson is just not a wash at all whatsoever

???

In each of their first five seasons in the A-10, VCU won at least 25 games every season and played in the NCAA tournament every season. Xavier has 4 NCAA appearances in that 5-year span.

Davidson has 3 NCAA tournaments in that 5-year period. Temple has only one.

Xavier is still a bigger name. They've never reached a Final Four but have been more relevant than VCU, who just popped up out of nowhere 7 years ago with a shocking Final Four run. Davidson just doesn't compare to Temple. Except for Steph Curry's big run, they aren't the same caliber program, granted, Temple is just not what it was under John Chaney.
02-14-2018 07:53 PM
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