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Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
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BearcatJerry Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-15-2018 09:32 AM)bearcat29 Wrote:  
(02-15-2018 08:26 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  
(02-15-2018 08:10 AM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  I’m thinking we’d have been better off keeping the name

Perhaps, but I don't think Cincinnati or UConn expected to still be in the AAC in 2018 when that decision was made.

It was right to give the BE name to the Catholic schools.

I am guessing we will be in the B12 leftovers in about 4 years with TCU, KSU, ISU and Baylor so it probably wont matter.

Yup.

When I hear the name "Big East" I still instinctively think "Georgetown," and "Villanova," and "Providence," and even "Boston College" and "Syracuse." When I see the score listed between "Pittsburgh" and "Miami," I don't think "ACC," I think "Big East."

None of that is meant against UC or any of the other newer Big East members. But that name, "Big East" has nothing to do with "Memphis" and "Houston" and "SMU." Coupled with the fact that the Big East was not considered a "major" conference in football, and we got the most out of it with the $$$. And the New BE schools got the most out of it with the name.

Win. Win.
 
02-15-2018 03:54 PM
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digibrink Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
Agree - while the old Big East was certainly better much better than the American or the new Big East from a basketball stand point - despite being a really good football league the rest of the country still considered the BE the Big Least and acted like they didn't belong as a "Power" conference - despite most years having 3-4 ranked football teams and multiple years with teams in the top-5.

Anyone who challenges the "throne" be it real or imagined is going to get the same response - old boys club bull****. You see it in football (especially), other sports, politics, you name it.
 
02-15-2018 03:59 PM
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Post: #43
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-15-2018 10:23 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I know people have brought it up frequently in different threads, but I am not so sure if UConn will ever be able to get back to their 1990-2014 baseline: at least not in the AAC. Even if they fire Ollie, they'll hire in a Dan Hurley kind of guy who will stick it out for three years max before leaving to go to a P5 school. Repeat and rinse for the next guy.

Memphis might be a different story given all the talent in their backyard, but I have to wonder how difficult it will be for them to pay for... err.. recruit all those Memphis kids in the future.

Yep.

Even legit honest recruiting takes money. Now that I'm coaching at the D1 level it's amazing how limited our recruiting budget as a mid-major versus the likes of OSU and UK.
 
02-15-2018 09:36 PM
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bearcatmill Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-15-2018 09:36 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  
(02-15-2018 10:23 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I know people have brought it up frequently in different threads, but I am not so sure if UConn will ever be able to get back to their 1990-2014 baseline: at least not in the AAC. Even if they fire Ollie, they'll hire in a Dan Hurley kind of guy who will stick it out for three years max before leaving to go to a P5 school. Repeat and rinse for the next guy.

Memphis might be a different story given all the talent in their backyard, but I have to wonder how difficult it will be for them to pay for... err.. recruit all those Memphis kids in the future.

Yep.

Even legit honest recruiting takes money. Now that I'm coaching at the D1 level it's amazing how limited our recruiting budget as a mid-major versus the likes of OSU and UK.

Hey Rag - where are you coaching?
 
02-16-2018 12:08 AM
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Not Duane Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-14-2018 04:31 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  http://www.sportingnews.com/amp/ncaa-bas...ssion=true

In a nutshell, Mike argues "the worst teams in major conferences no longer stink". The schools in the P5 have such a disparity in resources that the strong recruits are choosing even the worst P5 schools over non P5 programs. There are several quotes from recruiting analysts who indicate the recruits are well aware of the "levels" and want to play at the "highest level"/P5.

He does state with the exception of UC, UConn, Wichita State and Gonzaga the rest are pretty much screwed.

With the notable exception of the Big East.
 
02-16-2018 08:32 AM
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Post: #46
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
This type of article makes me wonder if it makes sense NOW to dump the AAC and try and get into the Big East with UCONN and say Temple.

Let's assume for a second XU doesn't block us and we get in. You park football in indy. I know it will kill football because being in the AAC RIGHT NOW is 100% better than indy football. I get it. But football is going to die a slow death anyway. The gap is too big between the haves/have-nots. Plus, the subsidies thing...it is not sustainable long-term what most G4 schools are doing with subsidies and their athletics departments. So when all this comes crashing down and we are in the AAC in both sports, we are basically going to be screwed and relegated to the have nots table in all sports.

At least if our hoops were in the Big East along with UCONN and Temple, then in ONE sport we are at the big boy table.

We could go indy in football and have a loose scheduling agreement with the other indy's save ND.

This G4/P5 thing is a CLEAR agenda. ESPN is pushing it and everybody is taking the bait. They want to create this division. Think about the mid-90's. CUSA v1.0 was clearly mid major in football but the basketball was NEVER called mid-major. Mid-major in hoops was always a reference to conferences like the Mo Valley, Ohio Valley, MAC, etc. Now, if you aren't P5, you are mid-major and it now transcends all sports. Consider:they called out the AAC as mid-major in baseball the other day...we get four bids in baseball. That is more than the Big 10. AAC baseball is nowhere close to mid major, but by association, they have taken football designate and given it to all sports across the board. That is driving an agenda.

At least with basketball in the Big East it keeps one revenue sport in the power discussion.

Just food for thought. Not what I want for football, but half a loaf is better than nothing.
 
02-17-2018 09:27 AM
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Lush Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
i honestly don't think it's gonna get any better for us. it's not entirely terrible. it's like the cusa days but flipped. football's better and basketball is worse. hopefully we stay relevant in basketball, which i don't see any indication that mick's losing it anytime soon. we may never make a deep run, but an annual tourney team chasing that elusive sweet sixteen
 
02-17-2018 09:46 AM
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jarr Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-17-2018 09:27 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  This type of article makes me wonder if it makes sense NOW to dump the AAC and try and get into the Big East with UCONN and say Temple.

Let's assume for a second XU doesn't block us and we get in. You park football in indy. I know it will kill football because being in the AAC RIGHT NOW is 100% better than indy football. I get it. But football is going to die a slow death anyway. The gap is too big between the haves/have-nots. Plus, the subsidies thing...it is not sustainable long-term what most G4 schools are doing with subsidies and their athletics departments. So when all this comes crashing down and we are in the AAC in both sports, we are basically going to be screwed and relegated to the have nots table in all sports.

At least if our hoops were in the Big East along with UCONN and Temple, then in ONE sport we are at the big boy table.

We could go indy in football and have a loose scheduling agreement with the other indy's save ND.

This G4/P5 thing is a CLEAR agenda. ESPN is pushing it and everybody is taking the bait. They want to create this division. Think about the mid-90's. CUSA v1.0 was clearly mid major in football but the basketball was NEVER called mid-major. Mid-major in hoops was always a reference to conferences like the Mo Valley, Ohio Valley, MAC, etc. Now, if you aren't P5, you are mid-major and it now transcends all sports. Consider:they called out the AAC as mid-major in baseball the other day...we get four bids in baseball. That is more than the Big 10. AAC baseball is nowhere close to mid major, but by association, they have taken football designate and given it to all sports across the board. That is driving an agenda.

At least with basketball in the Big East it keeps one revenue sport in the power discussion.

Just food for thought. Not what I want for football, but half a loaf is better than nothing.

I've thought the same thing before. Ultimately, I would rather have a program like Villanova in hoops than be mediocre in both sports. The private institutions probably have an anvantage because they don't have to do the title IX crap correct?
 
02-17-2018 09:50 AM
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RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
They have to do the Title IX thing as well if they have any students receiving federal financial aid or any other federal funds end up trickling in to the school. Which they all do.
 
02-17-2018 10:12 AM
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colohank Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-17-2018 09:50 AM)jarr Wrote:  
(02-17-2018 09:27 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  This type of article makes me wonder if it makes sense NOW to dump the AAC and try and get into the Big East with UCONN and say Temple.

Let's assume for a second XU doesn't block us and we get in. You park football in indy. I know it will kill football because being in the AAC RIGHT NOW is 100% better than indy football. I get it. But football is going to die a slow death anyway. The gap is too big between the haves/have-nots. Plus, the subsidies thing...it is not sustainable long-term what most G4 schools are doing with subsidies and their athletics departments. So when all this comes crashing down and we are in the AAC in both sports, we are basically going to be screwed and relegated to the have nots table in all sports.

At least if our hoops were in the Big East along with UCONN and Temple, then in ONE sport we are at the big boy table.

We could go indy in football and have a loose scheduling agreement with the other indy's save ND.

This G4/P5 thing is a CLEAR agenda. ESPN is pushing it and everybody is taking the bait. They want to create this division. Think about the mid-90's. CUSA v1.0 was clearly mid major in football but the basketball was NEVER called mid-major. Mid-major in hoops was always a reference to conferences like the Mo Valley, Ohio Valley, MAC, etc. Now, if you aren't P5, you are mid-major and it now transcends all sports. Consider:they called out the AAC as mid-major in baseball the other day...we get four bids in baseball. That is more than the Big 10. AAC baseball is nowhere close to mid major, but by association, they have taken football designate and given it to all sports across the board. That is driving an agenda.

At least with basketball in the Big East it keeps one revenue sport in the power discussion.

Just food for thought. Not what I want for football, but half a loaf is better than nothing.

I've thought the same thing before. Ultimately, I would rather have a program like Villanova in hoops than be mediocre in both sports. The private institutions probably have an anvantage because they don't have to do the title IX crap correct?

That's a great idea. Wish I'd thought of it. We can put a roof on Nippert and its new $80 million improvements, plunk down a basketball floor on the fifty yard line, and seat 40 thousand people when we play home games against Villanova and Butler and Creighton, all of which of course might stink in a year or two. Raze 5th/3rd and its improvements, too. Who needs a facility that small when you're in the New Big East? Whoopee!
 
02-17-2018 10:49 AM
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Post: #51
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-17-2018 09:46 AM)Lush Wrote:  i honestly don't think it's gonna get any better for us. it's not entirely terrible. it's like the cusa days but flipped. football's better and basketball is worse. hopefully we stay relevant in basketball, which i don't see any indication that mick's losing it anytime soon. we may never make a deep run, but an annual tourney team chasing that elusive sweet sixteen

It certainly hasn't helped Syc.,Pitt or Rutgers. Wv kind of a push. Louisville, who knows. That's a cluster.Money is certainly better, but athletic standing isn't jumping off the chart.
 
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2018 11:02 AM by dsquare.)
02-17-2018 11:02 AM
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Post: #52
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-17-2018 09:50 AM)jarr Wrote:  
(02-17-2018 09:27 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  This type of article makes me wonder if it makes sense NOW to dump the AAC and try and get into the Big East with UCONN and say Temple.

Let's assume for a second XU doesn't block us and we get in. You park football in indy. I know it will kill football because being in the AAC RIGHT NOW is 100% better than indy football. I get it. But football is going to die a slow death anyway. The gap is too big between the haves/have-nots. Plus, the subsidies thing...it is not sustainable long-term what most G4 schools are doing with subsidies and their athletics departments. So when all this comes crashing down and we are in the AAC in both sports, we are basically going to be screwed and relegated to the have nots table in all sports.

At least if our hoops were in the Big East along with UCONN and Temple, then in ONE sport we are at the big boy table.

We could go indy in football and have a loose scheduling agreement with the other indy's save ND.

This G4/P5 thing is a CLEAR agenda. ESPN is pushing it and everybody is taking the bait. They want to create this division. Think about the mid-90's. CUSA v1.0 was clearly mid major in football but the basketball was NEVER called mid-major. Mid-major in hoops was always a reference to conferences like the Mo Valley, Ohio Valley, MAC, etc. Now, if you aren't P5, you are mid-major and it now transcends all sports. Consider:they called out the AAC as mid-major in baseball the other day...we get four bids in baseball. That is more than the Big 10. AAC baseball is nowhere close to mid major, but by association, they have taken football designate and given it to all sports across the board. That is driving an agenda.

At least with basketball in the Big East it keeps one revenue sport in the power discussion.

Just food for thought. Not what I want for football, but half a loaf is better than nothing.

I've thought the same thing before. Ultimately, I would rather have a program like Villanova in hoops than be mediocre in both sports. The private institutions probably have an anvantage because they don't have to do the title IX crap correct?

Sounds like you might not know what you're talking about there . . .
 
02-17-2018 11:33 AM
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Post: #53
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
If the American does not get a TV deal in the 5 million to 7 million dollar range then UC has to explore other options. I am not sure a Big East invitation would work without a football conference deal. I don't believe the American would let UC and UConn stay there for football as that would be the top solution. Going to the MAC might be an option that would be worth exploring. Another option that would require a lot pieces would be reforming a Big East football conference. Cincinnati, UConn, Temple, UMass all to the Big East with Army and Navy as football only members. Probably would then to convince the A-10 to grab a combination of Buffalo, Old Dominion, Charlotte, or Marshall.

Lets say this is the final result. Big East basketball adds Cincinnati, UConn, Temple, UMass. New Big East football conference: Cincinnati, UConn, Temple, UMass, Army, Navy, Buffalo, Marshall, Charlotte. Travel cost would be greatly reduced. True eastern conference with regional rivalries, overall better collection of academic institutions and power brokers. Lets says the basketball sides makes 4 to 5 million while football is somewhere around 2 million per school, I would take this over the current situation.
 
02-17-2018 12:11 PM
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RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
Big East ship has sailed. They won't get the money to make it worthwhile to add UC and UConn. Might as well give up that pipe dream. The MAC makes less than the AAC, so it's a no go. Might as well get used to the AAC and crappy TV money.
 
02-17-2018 12:17 PM
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Post: #55
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-17-2018 11:02 AM)dsquare Wrote:  
(02-17-2018 09:46 AM)Lush Wrote:  i honestly don't think it's gonna get any better for us. it's not entirely terrible. it's like the cusa days but flipped. football's better and basketball is worse. hopefully we stay relevant in basketball, which i don't see any indication that mick's losing it anytime soon. we may never make a deep run, but an annual tourney team chasing that elusive sweet sixteen

It certainly hasn't helped Syc.,Pitt or Rutgers. Wv kind of a push. Louisville, who knows. That's a cluster.Money is certainly better, but athletic standing isn't jumping off the chart.

Scandal aside it has been great for Louisville. They are a year removed from their
QB winning the Heisman Trophy. Their profile has been raised significantly in the last 5 years.

Rutgers is always going to be Rutgers. Geographic location, facilities and the like will always keep them from being a top football program (the excelled in past eras but in the current environment they are not turning around).

Pitt is an enigma. Should be much better than they are in FB. Bad basketball coaching hire. The right coach will turn it around.
 
02-17-2018 12:21 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-17-2018 12:17 PM)mlb Wrote:  Big East ship has sailed. They won't get the money to make it worthwhile to add UC and UConn. Might as well give up that pipe dream. The MAC makes less than the AAC, so it's a no go. Might as well get used to the AAC and crappy TV money.

I don't see BE as an option. If I were Eggs, why allow UC to be added? A weak UC program allows Eggs to thrive. More importantly would there be enough tv money to make this viable? I see the New BE not receiving a substantial renewal amount.

The MAC rumor is an interesting one. Typically floated by miami and osu folks. I have heard MAC officials are not interested in partial members. Plus, if you are going down a division do it right. Park fball in the D3. That's what Nova and Butler have done. However, no UC fans would support this and the school might as well end the program at that point. Going Indy is no better. At some point even ND will more than likely be forced into a conf for fball.

AAC is unfortunately UC's best situation at this point. Once espn/ fox and the Cartel 5 make the complete break, we will have a better idea. My thoughts are part of the B12 will be avail. I'm not so sure the New BE would be completely welcome in a landscaape with a parred down P5, maybe P4.
 
02-17-2018 03:18 PM
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RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
The way I look at it, is if UC can find away to withstand the tide for a few more years, and have some deep runs in Basketball and some top 10-15 finishes in football like the BK years, we may find our selves a nice seat some where the next time the conferences play another round of musical chairs. Ideally in some sort of conference made uo of Louisville, WVU, Pitt, Memphis, UConn, Houston, KSU, etc.
 
02-17-2018 03:49 PM
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BearcatJerry Offline
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RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-17-2018 12:17 PM)mlb Wrote:  Big East ship has sailed. They won't get the money to make it worthwhile to add UC and UConn. Might as well give up that pipe dream. The MAC makes less than the AAC, so it's a no go. Might as well get used to the AAC and crappy TV money.
^^^
This.

The Big East might POSSIBLY make an exception for UConn, but it makes no sense for us, for several reasons:
1) Duplication of markets... Xavier already covers Cincinnati/Ohio regional market.
2) Did-similar Institution/lack of Institutional Fit... The Big East is now composed of like-minded (i.e. Non-revenue FB) and similar-mission schools (i.e. Private, Parochial). As such they have a synergy of priorities and identity... UC does NOT fit.
3) The BE is still gelling in terms of identity. So they are not likely to expand, but if they do, they'll certainly focus on #1 and #2 more closely. Again, UConn is an exception because of the strong history between the UConn "brand" and the Big East name.

I'd place the "Big East" slightly below the "Big Ten" in terms of likelihood of adding UC.
 
02-17-2018 06:02 PM
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