(02-16-2018 02:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 12:26 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 09:44 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 08:20 PM)XLance Wrote:  You guys are soooooo defensive.

Defense wins championships.

No, being defensive promotes revisionist history and chokes off discussion. Then folks either go away or somewhere else.

The two most defensive boards on this site are the AAC and the ACC in that order so......

When you are numero uno in every statistical category there is no need for defensiveness X.

In realignment all of the advantages are ours. Whether you pick attendance, gross revenue, viewership, region of the country, or recruiting the SEC has it all.

What you call revisionism is simply a world view that isn't Chapel Hill centered. While the ACC is certainly not the most vulnerable conference any longer, you are still dead last in all metrics including revenue. So just because the Big 12 is the most vulnerable due to a long list of issues, the financial disparity will remain a source of contention for the ACC for many years to come.

What chokes off discussion is not revisionism. Revisionism just leads to more debate. What chokes off discussion on a message board are facts. Then whiny piss and moaners look for somewhere else to complain.

The biggest issue with the dumbest generation in American history is that they believe vox populi makes them correct and that if enough of them can get together to shout someone else down that somehow that makes them right. The beauty of being right is that frequently you find yourself in the minority position, but if you know how and why you are right it doesn't matter. When the numb-skulls in the press just repeat what they hear instead of doing a little background work we get a B.S. feedback loop, like the black ball garbage.

That's why I post the numbers at the top of the screen every year. No matter how much grousing and group think there is going around the numbers stand on their own.

When I argue with people about the black ball blocking group B.S. it's simply value that defeats the argument. The only way it ever gained traction was publicity by twitter folks and bloggers who could point to the market model. Well that's no longer as viable and even when it was it didn't keep in state schools from pushing for their rivals, rather than blocking them.

I listened to another millennial talking at L.T. today about F.S.U., well Bowden applied to the SEC and pushed us several times starting in '82. Bowden didn't change his mind on the SEC until the last minute. You've got your view of how things went down, and I've got mine. They come from two different vantage points but at least we are dealing with a quantifiable event. F.S.U. chose the ACC. The only thing that is debatable is why and when and were there other interested parties.

So if I'm listening to one of the long list of red hot rocket aces on the main board push their pet theories and I know which part of those theories are just plain wrong, I'll say so, and unapologetically. Being popular doesn't equate to being right either.

So I'm going to drop my politeness for a moment to say the ACC is not just behind on revenue, you are staggeringly behind on revenue. You have the largest market footprint in the U.S. and your viewing numbers even lag those of the PAC. It's not just bad, it is horribly pathetic. The scandals at Louisville, in the recent past at Miami, and the academic fraud issues at North Carolina all make Ole Miss look like choir boys. As far as the measure of academics go you have 5 AAU schools we have 4, but both of our conferences trail the Big 10 and PAC significantly on that metric.

I don't hate the ACC, but saying that you are vulnerable is what incites defensiveness on this board. Yet it is not hating, but rather reason that says that you are what you are. The GOR held you together in 2010-12 and that is not much different than the Big 12. But, having the larger market footprint is what saved in the ACC in 2010-12 because that is what the Big 12 could not overcome. In a world where market footprints aren't as important as actual viewers it won't.

The only thing I defend, and will continue to defend, is what I know to be true. But, in all dealings where money, reputation, and where ego are involved what is publicized and what really happened are two entirely different things. Fear of liability, spin to cover jobs and reputation, or to cover the involvement of money are virtually always present. For conference commissioners, networks, and university presidents and football coaches that is especially true. The revisionism, glosses in story presentation, and the competing angles are all there for those reasons. And they were never so omnipresent as in the recent realignment.

What especially pisses me off around here is when I listen to those born decades after events that I lived through trying to tell me that what happened is different that what I experienced. It happens because of the revisionist history their leftist ******* professors presented to them. In some university libraries now you have to go to the archives to find books written by those who were there, or who actually researched an event in their lifetime with eyewitness accounts, to find a source to get them see just how far off what they were taught truly is. I lived in the archives during my post graduate work and the discrepancies between the fairly non political accounting of events say 70 to 200 years previously were quite different to the attributed motives being taught so that the events of history could be swayed to favor some current agenda.

So sorry buddy, I let you slide on a lot of things and just accept that our world views differ, but saying the folks who post here, me included, are defensive of our conference is just pure projection on your part. We have nothing to defend. The numbers speak for themselves. The very fact that you try to demean us in order to feel better about yours is quite amusing.

The good news in all this is that when the left-wing cupcakes with their safe zones graduate, the real world will punch them right in the mouth. No safe spaces at work, and the boss doesn't give a crap about their opinions, theories, and status. Professors are so cheating these students. Life happens and they better be prepared. This generation has reaped the benefits of previous hard-working generations. New cars for their 16th birthday, thinking they are owed a free college education, health insurance on mom and dad until they are 26, etc. They get their "facts" from social media, and their answers from Alexa and Google Home. As far as the status of the SEC vs. the other conferences, there should be no arguments. FSU joined the ACC to run the tables in FB which they did for years and to upgrade a very sorry BB program. I was shocked at the attendance numbers by conference along with the profits.

(02-15-2018 11:03 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 10:45 AM)JRsec Wrote:  I wasn't making a business statement here Vandiver, but the interest has been there, it's just that those two are tied down by more strings than a GOR. I was making a personal statement. I would like for the SEC to be Southeastern. There's too much dilution of passion, tradition, and the family feel of the conference when we continue to push the boundaries outward.

The bolded part above is my single largest personal issue with realignment. I cringe that Missouri is in the SEC, that Rutgers and Maryland are in the B1G, that Colorado is in the PAC, that West Virginia is in the XII, etc.

I would love to see literal regional conferences no matter the size. The PAC staying "West Coast" (not just West), the B1G staying Great Lakes and Midwest, the SEC being Southeast, the ACC being both Atlantic and Coastal, a power Northeast conference, the Southwest Conference returning, and whatever else along those lines.

You are talking about the way things were 50 years ago. Forget this dream. Money says it will never happen.

(02-15-2018 12:51 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 10:29 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(02-14-2018 08:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Now back to the above explanation, it is why I've always favored finding someway to just add Florida State and Clemson and call it a day. They are here. They are like us in every way, they go to church and work with us, and to lack for an original response, "They just mean more!"

Yeah, it would be nice but I don't think they are interested. Moreover, those are mortal blows to the ACC.

(02-14-2018 09:57 PM)XLance Wrote:  But they just don't want to join your league.............

the SEC needs West Virginia and Louisville

You know good and well the SEC doesn't have any needs that either one of those schools fulfill. The conference can thrive at 14, 15 or even 16.

You are absolutely correct. The SEC does not need to expand.
BUT the weakest flank of the SEC is to the north (Kentucky and Missouri) because they protrude out of your defined space and into somewhere else.
Culturally there is no where that you can go to support Missouri except to the southwest and then there is only a tiny border with Oklahoma. You won't find anything close to SEC culture in Illinois, Kansas or Iowa.
Kentucky is a different situation. While I think that redundancy is not ideal in realignment today, it does strengthen Kentucky's (the state) strength in the region and helps but helps define and expand the SEC's reach up and down the Ohio River Valley. West Virginia is just an extension of Kentucky on the SEC side of the mountains that has a shared Appalachian culture.
To me Louisville and West Virginia are the two best cultural fits for the SEC, unfortunately for all parties involved, they are not the most profitable.

Lance,

A) You probably need to study a little Missouri and Kentucky history.

B) West Virginia is not in the southeast and chose not to be southern a long time ago.

C) Texas A&M is not located in the southeast, but they had Southern political leanings, as did Missouri and Kentucky.

There are geographical conference mates and there are also cultural/historical conference mates. When you cross the Mississippi River from Tennessee and Kentucky into Missouri, does that create an epic cultural change?

We can argue this issue forever.

(02-17-2018 01:04 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 02:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 12:26 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 09:44 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 08:20 PM)XLance Wrote:  You guys are soooooo defensive.

Defense wins championships.

No, being defensive promotes revisionist history and chokes off discussion. Then folks either go away or somewhere else.

The two most defensive boards on this site are the AAC and the ACC in that order so......

When you are numero uno in every statistical category there is no need for defensiveness X.

In realignment all of the advantages are ours. Whether you pick attendance, gross revenue, viewership, region of the country, or recruiting the SEC has it all.

What you call revisionism is simply a world view that isn't Chapel Hill centered. While the ACC is certainly not the most vulnerable conference any longer, you are still dead last in all metrics including revenue. So just because the Big 12 is the most vulnerable due to a long list of issues, the financial disparity will remain a source of contention for the ACC for many years to come.

What chokes off discussion is not revisionism. Revisionism just leads to more debate. What chokes off discussion on a message board are facts. Then whiny piss and moaners look for somewhere else to complain.

The biggest issue with the dumbest generation in American history is that they believe vox populi makes them correct and that if enough of them can get together to shout someone else down that somehow that makes them right. The beauty of being right is that frequently you find yourself in the minority position, but if you know how and why you are right it doesn't matter. When the numb-skulls in the press just repeat what they hear instead of doing a little background work we get a B.S. feedback loop, like the black ball garbage.

That's why I post the numbers at the top of the screen every year. No matter how much grousing and group think there is going around the numbers stand on their own.

When I argue with people about the black ball blocking group B.S. it's simply value that defeats the argument. The only way it ever gained traction was publicity by twitter folks and bloggers who could point to the market model. Well that's no longer as viable and even when it was it didn't keep in state schools from pushing for their rivals, rather than blocking them.

I listened to another millennial talking at L.T. today about F.S.U., well Bowden applied to the SEC and pushed us several times starting in '82. Bowden didn't change his mind on the SEC until the last minute. You've got your view of how things went down, and I've got mine. They come from two different vantage points but at least we are dealing with a quantifiable event. F.S.U. chose the ACC. The only thing that is debatable is why and when and were there other interested parties.

So if I'm listening to one of the long list of red hot rocket aces on the main board push their pet theories and I know which part of those theories are just plain wrong, I'll say so, and unapologetically. Being popular doesn't equate to being right either.

So I'm going to drop my politeness for a moment to say the ACC is not just behind on revenue, you are staggeringly behind on revenue. You have the largest market footprint in the U.S. and your viewing numbers even lag those of the PAC. It's not just bad, it is horribly pathetic. The scandals at Louisville, in the recent past at Miami, and the academic fraud issues at North Carolina all make Ole Miss look like choir boys. As far as the measure of academics go you have 5 AAU schools we have 4, but both of our conferences trail the Big 10 and PAC significantly on that metric.

I don't hate the ACC, but saying that you are vulnerable is what incites defensiveness on this board. Yet it is not hating, but rather reason that says that you are what you are. The GOR held you together in 2010-12 and that is not much different than the Big 12. But, having the larger market footprint is what saved in the ACC in 2010-12 because that is what the Big 12 could not overcome. In a world where market footprints aren't as important as actual viewers it won't.

The only thing I defend, and will continue to defend, is what I know to be true. But, in all dealings where money, reputation, and where ego are involved what is publicized and what really happened are two entirely different things. Fear of liability, spin to cover jobs and reputation, or to cover the involvement of money are virtually always present. For conference commissioners, networks, and university presidents and football coaches that is especially true. The revisionism, glosses in story presentation, and the competing angles are all there for those reasons. And they were never so omnipresent as in the recent realignment.

What especially pisses me off around here is when I listen to those born decades after events that I lived through trying to tell me that what happened is different that what I experienced. It happens because of the revisionist history their leftist ******* professors presented to them. In some university libraries now you have to go to the archives to find books written by those who were there, or who actually researched an event in their lifetime with eyewitness accounts, to find a source to get them see just how far off what they were taught truly is. I lived in the archives during my post graduate work and the discrepancies between the fairly non political accounting of events say 70 to 200 years previously were quite different to the attributed motives being taught so that the events of history could be swayed to favor some current agenda.

So sorry buddy, I let you slide on a lot of things and just accept that our world views differ, but saying the folks who post here, me included, are defensive of our conference is just pure projection on your part. We have nothing to defend. The numbers speak for themselves. The very fact that you try to demean us in order to feel better about yours is quite amusing.

The good news in all this is that when the left-wing cupcakes with their safe zones graduate, the real world will punch them right in the mouth. No safe spaces at work, and the boss doesn't give a crap about their opinions, theories, and status. Professors are so cheating these students. Life happens and they better be prepared. This generation has reaped the benefits of previous hard-working generations. New cars for their 16th birthday, thinking they are owed a free college education, health insurance on mom and dad until they are 26, etc. They get their "facts" from social media, and their answers from Alexa and Google Home. As far as the status of the SEC vs. the other conferences, there should be no arguments. FSU joined the ACC to run the tables in FB which they did for years and to upgrade a very sorry BB program. I was shocked at the attendance numbers by conference along with the profits.

I have three kids (ages 31, 27 and 25).

They bought their own cars when they were sixteen. They all had jobs in high school. I told them that they could have a car as soon as they could pay for one. I paid the insurance, they paid for the vehicles.

They all came up with funding for their own college educations, by working and with help from TOPPS (Louisiana tuition waiver) and with student loans. I didn't pay very much, wanting them to learn how to problem solve things for themselves. I tried to teach them to not expect their parents to solve everything.

Two are engineers and one is an RN. They all work very hard. Trust me, they have earned their own way in the world, despite Daddy being a lawyer.

All of them read a lot. All are very, very left leaning in their opinions, but got there without getting their news from social media.

Stereotyping is always something to avoid, no matter the topic.

(02-18-2018 10:57 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 01:04 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 02:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 12:26 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 09:44 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Defense wins championships.

No, being defensive promotes revisionist history and chokes off discussion. Then folks either go away or somewhere else.

The two most defensive boards on this site are the AAC and the ACC in that order so......

When you are numero uno in every statistical category there is no need for defensiveness X.

In realignment all of the advantages are ours. Whether you pick attendance, gross revenue, viewership, region of the country, or recruiting the SEC has it all.

What you call revisionism is simply a world view that isn't Chapel Hill centered. While the ACC is certainly not the most vulnerable conference any longer, you are still dead last in all metrics including revenue. So just because the Big 12 is the most vulnerable due to a long list of issues, the financial disparity will remain a source of contention for the ACC for many years to come.

What chokes off discussion is not revisionism. Revisionism just leads to more debate. What chokes off discussion on a message board are facts. Then whiny piss and moaners look for somewhere else to complain.

The biggest issue with the dumbest generation in American history is that they believe vox populi makes them correct and that if enough of them can get together to shout someone else down that somehow that makes them right. The beauty of being right is that frequently you find yourself in the minority position, but if you know how and why you are right it doesn't matter. When the numb-skulls in the press just repeat what they hear instead of doing a little background work we get a B.S. feedback loop, like the black ball garbage.

That's why I post the numbers at the top of the screen every year. No matter how much grousing and group think there is going around the numbers stand on their own.

When I argue with people about the black ball blocking group B.S. it's simply value that defeats the argument. The only way it ever gained traction was publicity by twitter folks and bloggers who could point to the market model. Well that's no longer as viable and even when it was it didn't keep in state schools from pushing for their rivals, rather than blocking them.

I listened to another millennial talking at L.T. today about F.S.U., well Bowden applied to the SEC and pushed us several times starting in '82. Bowden didn't change his mind on the SEC until the last minute. You've got your view of how things went down, and I've got mine. They come from two different vantage points but at least we are dealing with a quantifiable event. F.S.U. chose the ACC. The only thing that is debatable is why and when and were there other interested parties.

So if I'm listening to one of the long list of red hot rocket aces on the main board push their pet theories and I know which part of those theories are just plain wrong, I'll say so, and unapologetically. Being popular doesn't equate to being right either.

So I'm going to drop my politeness for a moment to say the ACC is not just behind on revenue, you are staggeringly behind on revenue. You have the largest market footprint in the U.S. and your viewing numbers even lag those of the PAC. It's not just bad, it is horribly pathetic. The scandals at Louisville, in the recent past at Miami, and the academic fraud issues at North Carolina all make Ole Miss look like choir boys. As far as the measure of academics go you have 5 AAU schools we have 4, but both of our conferences trail the Big 10 and PAC significantly on that metric.

I don't hate the ACC, but saying that you are vulnerable is what incites defensiveness on this board. Yet it is not hating, but rather reason that says that you are what you are. The GOR held you together in 2010-12 and that is not much different than the Big 12. But, having the larger market footprint is what saved in the ACC in 2010-12 because that is what the Big 12 could not overcome. In a world where market footprints aren't as important as actual viewers it won't.

The only thing I defend, and will continue to defend, is what I know to be true. But, in all dealings where money, reputation, and where ego are involved what is publicized and what really happened are two entirely different things. Fear of liability, spin to cover jobs and reputation, or to cover the involvement of money are virtually always present. For conference commissioners, networks, and university presidents and football coaches that is especially true. The revisionism, glosses in story presentation, and the competing angles are all there for those reasons. And they were never so omnipresent as in the recent realignment.

What especially pisses me off around here is when I listen to those born decades after events that I lived through trying to tell me that what happened is different that what I experienced. It happens because of the revisionist history their leftist ******* professors presented to them. In some university libraries now you have to go to the archives to find books written by those who were there, or who actually researched an event in their lifetime with eyewitness accounts, to find a source to get them see just how far off what they were taught truly is. I lived in the archives during my post graduate work and the discrepancies between the fairly non political accounting of events say 70 to 200 years previously were quite different to the attributed motives being taught so that the events of history could be swayed to favor some current agenda.

So sorry buddy, I let you slide on a lot of things and just accept that our world views differ, but saying the folks who post here, me included, are defensive of our conference is just pure projection on your part. We have nothing to defend. The numbers speak for themselves. The very fact that you try to demean us in order to feel better about yours is quite amusing.

The good news in all this is that when the left-wing cupcakes with their safe zones graduate, the real world will punch them right in the mouth. No safe spaces at work, and the boss doesn't give a crap about their opinions, theories, and status. Professors are so cheating these students. Life happens and they better be prepared. This generation has reaped the benefits of previous hard-working generations. New cars for their 16th birthday, thinking they are owed a free college education, health insurance on mom and dad until they are 26, etc. They get their "facts" from social media, and their answers from Alexa and Google Home. As far as the status of the SEC vs. the other conferences, there should be no arguments. FSU joined the ACC to run the tables in FB which they did for years and to upgrade a very sorry BB program. I was shocked at the attendance numbers by conference along with the profits.

I have three kids (ages 31, 27 and 25).

They bought their own cars when they were sixteen. They all had jobs in high school. I told them that they could have a car as soon as they could pay for one. I paid the insurance, they paid for the vehicles.

They all came up with funding for their own college educations, by working and with help from TOPPS (Louisiana tuition waiver) and with student loans. I didn't pay very much, wanting them to learn how to problem solve things for themselves. I tried to teach them to not expect their parents to solve everything.

Two are engineers and one is an RN. They all work very hard. Trust me, they have earned their own way in the world, despite Daddy being a lawyer.

All of them read a lot. All are very, very left leaning in their opinions, but got there without getting their news from social media.

Stereotyping is always something to avoid, no matter the topic.

Sounds like you have three great kids Terry. You worked hard and took the time and effort to make sure they ended up this way. The majority of these kids today are raising themselves, with one or no parents. Children have been placed on auto-pilot, and the results are telling. Of course all of todays' youngsters are not cupcakes... just an alarming number.

(02-18-2018 10:57 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 01:04 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 02:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 12:26 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 09:44 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Defense wins championships.

No, being defensive promotes revisionist history and chokes off discussion. Then folks either go away or somewhere else.

The two most defensive boards on this site are the AAC and the ACC in that order so......

When you are numero uno in every statistical category there is no need for defensiveness X.

In realignment all of the advantages are ours. Whether you pick attendance, gross revenue, viewership, region of the country, or recruiting the SEC has it all.

What you call revisionism is simply a world view that isn't Chapel Hill centered. While the ACC is certainly not the most vulnerable conference any longer, you are still dead last in all metrics including revenue. So just because the Big 12 is the most vulnerable due to a long list of issues, the financial disparity will remain a source of contention for the ACC for many years to come.

What chokes off discussion is not revisionism. Revisionism just leads to more debate. What chokes off discussion on a message board are facts. Then whiny piss and moaners look for somewhere else to complain.

The biggest issue with the dumbest generation in American history is that they believe vox populi makes them correct and that if enough of them can get together to shout someone else down that somehow that makes them right. The beauty of being right is that frequently you find yourself in the minority position, but if you know how and why you are right it doesn't matter. When the numb-skulls in the press just repeat what they hear instead of doing a little background work we get a B.S. feedback loop, like the black ball garbage.

That's why I post the numbers at the top of the screen every year. No matter how much grousing and group think there is going around the numbers stand on their own.

When I argue with people about the black ball blocking group B.S. it's simply value that defeats the argument. The only way it ever gained traction was publicity by twitter folks and bloggers who could point to the market model. Well that's no longer as viable and even when it was it didn't keep in state schools from pushing for their rivals, rather than blocking them.

I listened to another millennial talking at L.T. today about F.S.U., well Bowden applied to the SEC and pushed us several times starting in '82. Bowden didn't change his mind on the SEC until the last minute. You've got your view of how things went down, and I've got mine. They come from two different vantage points but at least we are dealing with a quantifiable event. F.S.U. chose the ACC. The only thing that is debatable is why and when and were there other interested parties.

So if I'm listening to one of the long list of red hot rocket aces on the main board push their pet theories and I know which part of those theories are just plain wrong, I'll say so, and unapologetically. Being popular doesn't equate to being right either.

So I'm going to drop my politeness for a moment to say the ACC is not just behind on revenue, you are staggeringly behind on revenue. You have the largest market footprint in the U.S. and your viewing numbers even lag those of the PAC. It's not just bad, it is horribly pathetic. The scandals at Louisville, in the recent past at Miami, and the academic fraud issues at North Carolina all make Ole Miss look like choir boys. As far as the measure of academics go you have 5 AAU schools we have 4, but both of our conferences trail the Big 10 and PAC significantly on that metric.

I don't hate the ACC, but saying that you are vulnerable is what incites defensiveness on this board. Yet it is not hating, but rather reason that says that you are what you are. The GOR held you together in 2010-12 and that is not much different than the Big 12. But, having the larger market footprint is what saved in the ACC in 2010-12 because that is what the Big 12 could not overcome. In a world where market footprints aren't as important as actual viewers it won't.

The only thing I defend, and will continue to defend, is what I know to be true. But, in all dealings where money, reputation, and where ego are involved what is publicized and what really happened are two entirely different things. Fear of liability, spin to cover jobs and reputation, or to cover the involvement of money are virtually always present. For conference commissioners, networks, and university presidents and football coaches that is especially true. The revisionism, glosses in story presentation, and the competing angles are all there for those reasons. And they were never so omnipresent as in the recent realignment.

What especially pisses me off around here is when I listen to those born decades after events that I lived through trying to tell me that what happened is different that what I experienced. It happens because of the revisionist history their leftist ******* professors presented to them. In some university libraries now you have to go to the archives to find books written by those who were there, or who actually researched an event in their lifetime with eyewitness accounts, to find a source to get them see just how far off what they were taught truly is. I lived in the archives during my post graduate work and the discrepancies between the fairly non political accounting of events say 70 to 200 years previously were quite different to the attributed motives being taught so that the events of history could be swayed to favor some current agenda.

So sorry buddy, I let you slide on a lot of things and just accept that our world views differ, but saying the folks who post here, me included, are defensive of our conference is just pure projection on your part. We have nothing to defend. The numbers speak for themselves. The very fact that you try to demean us in order to feel better about yours is quite amusing.

The good news in all this is that when the left-wing cupcakes with their safe zones graduate, the real world will punch them right in the mouth. No safe spaces at work, and the boss doesn't give a crap about their opinions, theories, and status. Professors are so cheating these students. Life happens and they better be prepared. This generation has reaped the benefits of previous hard-working generations. New cars for their 16th birthday, thinking they are owed a free college education, health insurance on mom and dad until they are 26, etc. They get their "facts" from social media, and their answers from Alexa and Google Home. As far as the status of the SEC vs. the other conferences, there should be no arguments. FSU joined the ACC to run the tables in FB which they did for years and to upgrade a very sorry BB program. I was shocked at the attendance numbers by conference along with the profits.

I have three kids (ages 31, 27 and 25).

They bought their own cars when they were sixteen. They all had jobs in high school. I told them that they could have a car as soon as they could pay for one. I paid the insurance, they paid for the vehicles.

They all came up with funding for their own college educations, by working and with help from TOPPS (Louisiana tuition waiver) and with student loans. I didn't pay very much, wanting them to learn how to problem solve things for themselves. I tried to teach them to not expect their parents to solve everything.

Two are engineers and one is an RN. They all work very hard. Trust me, they have earned their own way in the world, despite Daddy being a lawyer.

All of them read a lot. All are very, very left leaning in their opinions, but got there without getting their news from social media.

Stereotyping is always something to avoid, no matter the topic.

There is a gulf of difference between a truly enlightened liberal or conservative and the self proclaimed ones. The former is always willing to consider the arguments of the other side, the latter is always in a rush to ignore or dismiss the arguments of the other side. The former rules their lives by reason of which the humility of doubt is always present in some form, the latter parrots the verbal spew of their party leaders and doubt is not in their vocabulary.

This is the biggest reason I don't frequent the Spin Room. I've been there more lately just so I know what's going on if their mods are absent and I have to deal with an issue. But I find an appalling lack of doubt (or humility) on either side of the argumentation on that board.

I agree about stereotypes when the purpose is to paint individuals. But stereotypes have a place in the world of generalities.

(02-17-2018 01:35 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 12:51 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 10:29 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(02-14-2018 08:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Now back to the above explanation, it is why I've always favored finding someway to just add Florida State and Clemson and call it a day. They are here. They are like us in every way, they go to church and work with us, and to lack for an original response, "They just mean more!"

Yeah, it would be nice but I don't think they are interested. Moreover, those are mortal blows to the ACC.

(02-14-2018 09:57 PM)XLance Wrote:  But they just don't want to join your league.............

the SEC needs West Virginia and Louisville

You know good and well the SEC doesn't have any needs that either one of those schools fulfill. The conference can thrive at 14, 15 or even 16.

You are absolutely correct. The SEC does not need to expand.
BUT the weakest flank of the SEC is to the north (Kentucky and Missouri) because they protrude out of your defined space and into somewhere else.
Culturally there is no where that you can go to support Missouri except to the southwest and then there is only a tiny border with Oklahoma. You won't find anything close to SEC culture in Illinois, Kansas or Iowa.
Kentucky is a different situation. While I think that redundancy is not ideal in realignment today, it does strengthen Kentucky's (the state) strength in the region and helps but helps define and expand the SEC's reach up and down the Ohio River Valley. West Virginia is just an extension of Kentucky on the SEC side of the mountains that has a shared Appalachian culture.
To me Louisville and West Virginia are the two best cultural fits for the SEC, unfortunately for all parties involved, they are not the most profitable.

Lance,

A) You probably need to study a little Missouri and Kentucky history.

B) West Virginia is not in the southeast and chose not to be southern a long time ago.

C) Texas A&M is not located in the southeast, but they had Southern political leanings, as did Missouri and Kentucky.

There are geographical conference mates and there are also cultural/historical conference mates. When you cross the Mississippi River from Tennessee and Kentucky into Missouri, does that create an epic cultural change?

We can argue this issue forever.

Cultural tends to follow nature, which is along latitudinal lines, but like nature we find changes in linear continuity when there is interruption due to natural barriers like mountains, or non fordable rivers, like the Mississippi.

(02-13-2018 10:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 09:36 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Greg Flugaur

@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“Tectonic Plates of Realignment will start to move around and build some heat 24 months from now. All kinds of back channel talks will begin among University Presidents and Top Media Executives”

--------------------


Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“Sometime in the Spring of 2020 Universities among the Big 12 will need to start pushing Oklahoma & Texas on their vision going forward.”

---------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“It has to start in 2020. Oklahoma will be gathering options in back channel talks with PAC, Big Ten & SEC. Oklahoma’s 3rd Tier Contract ends in 2022. Oklahoma will want to create feeding frenzy. Everyone in industry know this to be true”

----------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

“FOX Sports is loading up. Just acquired NFL Thursday Night Package. FOX Sports offered way above competitors for new NFL Package. FOX Sports now all-in on live sport content”

-----------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“There is nothing going on inside Big 12. No Conference initiatives to build any Big Conference new platforms big or small to help drive Big 12 brand in any growing capacity”

-------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“It is true, today everything is quiet. But it’s also inconceivable talks stay dormant past Spring of 2020”. Big Business needs a runway”

--------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“Everyone will load up to push their best possible deals toward Oklahoma. You only can get Texas if you get Oklahoma. If you come up short on Texas you still get a University in OU which will greatly adds to any Conference.”

---------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“PAC’s apparel deals among its top line branded Universities show an underrated value within its Conference. Must, and will, simplify its Conference Network into one media box. Need to unravel its complexity”

----------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“Some in industry expect USC to leak out info on them looking at and researching possible path toward Independence in Football to push PAC into some reform in next few years, but nobody will take these leaks seriously”

----------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“PAC has no interest in any merger with Big 12. This discussion wouldn’t get past the first open meeting at Berkeley. This is not a serious topic.”

-----------------------------

Well, there you go.

For some of these, I think I've heard some of this stuff before.

They make some flawed assumptions here.

1. FOX going all out for NFL games could just be their deliberately taking a different and less competitive stance with ESPN since now if ESPN makes money they make money. So assuming that FOX is going all in on sports broadcasting is erroneous. NBC, ABC, and CBS have not gone all in on college ball when they they had the NFL.

2. 2020 may be about right for the backdoor talks to begin for 2022-3 movement. The buyout of the last two years of the GOR won't amount to much for Texas and Oklahoma.

3. However, if ESPN gets concerned about new entrants into their world the incentive will be there for them to place all 10 of the Big 12 schools and renegotiate contracts, extending their deadlines, before things open up for all parties to get involved. That and that alone could make this pop before 2020. This would be especially true if ESPN tries to land some Texas product for the opening of the ACCN in 2019. A move to 20 schools in the SEC and ACC could absorb the Big 12 easily.

Texas, Baylor, T.C.U. and Kansas State to the ACC with Notre Dame all in and you are at 20.

Iowa State, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, and West Virginia to the SEC and you can make the move at the end of the coming season.

4. If ESPN opts not to go that route then the bidding for OU and UT will be all out in 2020 for 2023.

5. ESPN goes all out for the rest of the Big 10 contract and then divides the Big 12 property 3 ways. This still works for them when the B1G contract comes up for renewal in 2022.

6. ESPN goes for the PACN and that makes a Texas move with friends possible to the PAC.

Somehow in these I don't see a big FOX push for college product being a factor. They could just get a wink from ESPN and hold their own. They could give ESPN a wink and let them take a little bit more. Or they could sell out to an ESPN competitor and let whatever ESPN makes in the market be their stake in the profits. This is why some have speculated that Murdoch may sell out to Amazon for large number of shares of Amazon stock. Disney and Amazon are two stocks to hold onto.

So it's going to get interesting. But remember this, outside of the PAC which right now can't offer the financial package necessary to attract Oklahoma or Texas, the SEC is the only conference than can take OSU to get OU. No matter what happens that is still our ace in a whole to get OU and OU is our ace in the hole to get UT.

Texas will make $$$ no matter which conference it decides to join. Consequently, I think the key to landing Texas is taking as many little brothers as possible. I honestly see OU and OSU going to the SEC. If the PAC is willing to take TT, TCU, and possibly Houston, then I could see Texas going to the PAC. ESPN converts the LHN into the PAC 16 Lone Star Network for a % of the PACN. The Longhorns would be the highest grossing school in the PAC 16—which further boosts its ego….

(02-18-2018 08:09 PM)Underdog Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 10:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 09:36 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Greg Flugaur

@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“Tectonic Plates of Realignment will start to move around and build some heat 24 months from now. All kinds of back channel talks will begin among University Presidents and Top Media Executives”

--------------------


Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“Sometime in the Spring of 2020 Universities among the Big 12 will need to start pushing Oklahoma & Texas on their vision going forward.”

---------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“It has to start in 2020. Oklahoma will be gathering options in back channel talks with PAC, Big Ten & SEC. Oklahoma’s 3rd Tier Contract ends in 2022. Oklahoma will want to create feeding frenzy. Everyone in industry know this to be true”

----------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

“FOX Sports is loading up. Just acquired NFL Thursday Night Package. FOX Sports offered way above competitors for new NFL Package. FOX Sports now all-in on live sport content”

-----------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“There is nothing going on inside Big 12. No Conference initiatives to build any Big Conference new platforms big or small to help drive Big 12 brand in any growing capacity”

-------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“It is true, today everything is quiet. But it’s also inconceivable talks stay dormant past Spring of 2020”. Big Business needs a runway”

--------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“Everyone will load up to push their best possible deals toward Oklahoma. You only can get Texas if you get Oklahoma. If you come up short on Texas you still get a University in OU which will greatly adds to any Conference.”

---------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“PAC’s apparel deals among its top line branded Universities show an underrated value within its Conference. Must, and will, simplify its Conference Network into one media box. Need to unravel its complexity”

----------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“Some in industry expect USC to leak out info on them looking at and researching possible path toward Independence in Football to push PAC into some reform in next few years, but nobody will take these leaks seriously”

----------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“PAC has no interest in any merger with Big 12. This discussion wouldn’t get past the first open meeting at Berkeley. This is not a serious topic.”

-----------------------------

Well, there you go.

For some of these, I think I've heard some of this stuff before.

They make some flawed assumptions here.

1. FOX going all out for NFL games could just be their deliberately taking a different and less competitive stance with ESPN since now if ESPN makes money they make money. So assuming that FOX is going all in on sports broadcasting is erroneous. NBC, ABC, and CBS have not gone all in on college ball when they they had the NFL.

2. 2020 may be about right for the backdoor talks to begin for 2022-3 movement. The buyout of the last two years of the GOR won't amount to much for Texas and Oklahoma.

3. However, if ESPN gets concerned about new entrants into their world the incentive will be there for them to place all 10 of the Big 12 schools and renegotiate contracts, extending their deadlines, before things open up for all parties to get involved. That and that alone could make this pop before 2020. This would be especially true if ESPN tries to land some Texas product for the opening of the ACCN in 2019. A move to 20 schools in the SEC and ACC could absorb the Big 12 easily.

Texas, Baylor, T.C.U. and Kansas State to the ACC with Notre Dame all in and you are at 20.

Iowa State, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, and West Virginia to the SEC and you can make the move at the end of the coming season.

4. If ESPN opts not to go that route then the bidding for OU and UT will be all out in 2020 for 2023.

5. ESPN goes all out for the rest of the Big 10 contract and then divides the Big 12 property 3 ways. This still works for them when the B1G contract comes up for renewal in 2022.

6. ESPN goes for the PACN and that makes a Texas move with friends possible to the PAC.

Somehow in these I don't see a big FOX push for college product being a factor. They could just get a wink from ESPN and hold their own. They could give ESPN a wink and let them take a little bit more. Or they could sell out to an ESPN competitor and let whatever ESPN makes in the market be their stake in the profits. This is why some have speculated that Murdoch may sell out to Amazon for large number of shares of Amazon stock. Disney and Amazon are two stocks to hold onto.

So it's going to get interesting. But remember this, outside of the PAC which right now can't offer the financial package necessary to attract Oklahoma or Texas, the SEC is the only conference than can take OSU to get OU. No matter what happens that is still our ace in a whole to get OU and OU is our ace in the hole to get UT.

Texas will make $$$ no matter which conference it decides to join. Consequently, I think the key to landing Texas is taking as many little brothers as possible. I honestly see OU and OSU going to the SEC. If the PAC is willing to take TT, TCU, and possibly Houston, then I could see Texas going to the PAC. ESPN converts the LHN into the PAC 16 Lone Star Network for a % of the PACN. The Longhorns would be the highest grossing school in the PAC 16—which further boosts its ego….

This could be especially true if ESPN buys a controlling share of the PACN. Then if they rolled the LHN into that it becomes very doable. But remember they already have a controlling interest in the ACCN and will need a bigger draw to gain the carriage needed for the launch. So the ACC taking Texas and little brothers is also possible, and even more so if the PAC doesn't sell a controlling interest in their network.

(02-18-2018 08:38 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 08:09 PM)Underdog Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 10:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 09:36 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Greg Flugaur

@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“Tectonic Plates of Realignment will start to move around and build some heat 24 months from now. All kinds of back channel talks will begin among University Presidents and Top Media Executives”

--------------------


Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“Sometime in the Spring of 2020 Universities among the Big 12 will need to start pushing Oklahoma & Texas on their vision going forward.”

---------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“It has to start in 2020. Oklahoma will be gathering options in back channel talks with PAC, Big Ten & SEC. Oklahoma’s 3rd Tier Contract ends in 2022. Oklahoma will want to create feeding frenzy. Everyone in industry know this to be true”

----------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

“FOX Sports is loading up. Just acquired NFL Thursday Night Package. FOX Sports offered way above competitors for new NFL Package. FOX Sports now all-in on live sport content”

-----------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“There is nothing going on inside Big 12. No Conference initiatives to build any Big Conference new platforms big or small to help drive Big 12 brand in any growing capacity”

-------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“It is true, today everything is quiet. But it’s also inconceivable talks stay dormant past Spring of 2020”. Big Business needs a runway”

--------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“Everyone will load up to push their best possible deals toward Oklahoma. You only can get Texas if you get Oklahoma. If you come up short on Texas you still get a University in OU which will greatly adds to any Conference.”

---------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“PAC’s apparel deals among its top line branded Universities show an underrated value within its Conference. Must, and will, simplify its Conference Network into one media box. Need to unravel its complexity”

----------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“Some in industry expect USC to leak out info on them looking at and researching possible path toward Independence in Football to push PAC into some reform in next few years, but nobody will take these leaks seriously”

----------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“PAC has no interest in any merger with Big 12. This discussion wouldn’t get past the first open meeting at Berkeley. This is not a serious topic.”

-----------------------------

Well, there you go.

For some of these, I think I've heard some of this stuff before.

They make some flawed assumptions here.

1. FOX going all out for NFL games could just be their deliberately taking a different and less competitive stance with ESPN since now if ESPN makes money they make money. So assuming that FOX is going all in on sports broadcasting is erroneous. NBC, ABC, and CBS have not gone all in on college ball when they they had the NFL.

2. 2020 may be about right for the backdoor talks to begin for 2022-3 movement. The buyout of the last two years of the GOR won't amount to much for Texas and Oklahoma.

3. However, if ESPN gets concerned about new entrants into their world the incentive will be there for them to place all 10 of the Big 12 schools and renegotiate contracts, extending their deadlines, before things open up for all parties to get involved. That and that alone could make this pop before 2020. This would be especially true if ESPN tries to land some Texas product for the opening of the ACCN in 2019. A move to 20 schools in the SEC and ACC could absorb the Big 12 easily.

Texas, Baylor, T.C.U. and Kansas State to the ACC with Notre Dame all in and you are at 20.

Iowa State, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, and West Virginia to the SEC and you can make the move at the end of the coming season.

4. If ESPN opts not to go that route then the bidding for OU and UT will be all out in 2020 for 2023.

5. ESPN goes all out for the rest of the Big 10 contract and then divides the Big 12 property 3 ways. This still works for them when the B1G contract comes up for renewal in 2022.

6. ESPN goes for the PACN and that makes a Texas move with friends possible to the PAC.

Somehow in these I don't see a big FOX push for college product being a factor. They could just get a wink from ESPN and hold their own. They could give ESPN a wink and let them take a little bit more. Or they could sell out to an ESPN competitor and let whatever ESPN makes in the market be their stake in the profits. This is why some have speculated that Murdoch may sell out to Amazon for large number of shares of Amazon stock. Disney and Amazon are two stocks to hold onto.

So it's going to get interesting. But remember this, outside of the PAC which right now can't offer the financial package necessary to attract Oklahoma or Texas, the SEC is the only conference than can take OSU to get OU. No matter what happens that is still our ace in a whole to get OU and OU is our ace in the hole to get UT.

Texas will make $$$ no matter which conference it decides to join. Consequently, I think the key to landing Texas is taking as many little brothers as possible. I honestly see OU and OSU going to the SEC. If the PAC is willing to take TT, TCU, and possibly Houston, then I could see Texas going to the PAC. ESPN converts the LHN into the PAC 16 Lone Star Network for a % of the PACN. The Longhorns would be the highest grossing school in the PAC 16—which further boosts its ego….

This could be especially true if ESPN buys a controlling share of the PACN. Then if they rolled the LHN into that it becomes very doable. But remember they already have a controlling interest in the ACCN and will need a bigger draw to gain the carriage needed for the launch. So the ACC taking Texas and little brothers is also possible, and even more so if the PAC doesn't sell a controlling interest in their network.

I see you point my friend.... However, the ACC already has north/south/football-first/baskeball-first identity issues in my opinion. I think adding Texas would be detrimental to the ACC long term.

(02-18-2018 08:49 PM)Underdog Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 08:38 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 08:09 PM)Underdog Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 10:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 09:36 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Greg Flugaur

@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“Tectonic Plates of Realignment will start to move around and build some heat 24 months from now. All kinds of back channel talks will begin among University Presidents and Top Media Executives”

--------------------


Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“Sometime in the Spring of 2020 Universities among the Big 12 will need to start pushing Oklahoma & Texas on their vision going forward.”

---------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“It has to start in 2020. Oklahoma will be gathering options in back channel talks with PAC, Big Ten & SEC. Oklahoma’s 3rd Tier Contract ends in 2022. Oklahoma will want to create feeding frenzy. Everyone in industry know this to be true”

----------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

“FOX Sports is loading up. Just acquired NFL Thursday Night Package. FOX Sports offered way above competitors for new NFL Package. FOX Sports now all-in on live sport content”

-----------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“There is nothing going on inside Big 12. No Conference initiatives to build any Big Conference new platforms big or small to help drive Big 12 brand in any growing capacity”

-------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“It is true, today everything is quiet. But it’s also inconceivable talks stay dormant past Spring of 2020”. Big Business needs a runway”

--------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“Everyone will load up to push their best possible deals toward Oklahoma. You only can get Texas if you get Oklahoma. If you come up short on Texas you still get a University in OU which will greatly adds to any Conference.”

---------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“PAC’s apparel deals among its top line branded Universities show an underrated value within its Conference. Must, and will, simplify its Conference Network into one media box. Need to unravel its complexity”

----------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“Some in industry expect USC to leak out info on them looking at and researching possible path toward Independence in Football to push PAC into some reform in next few years, but nobody will take these leaks seriously”

----------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“PAC has no interest in any merger with Big 12. This discussion wouldn’t get past the first open meeting at Berkeley. This is not a serious topic.”

-----------------------------

Well, there you go.

For some of these, I think I've heard some of this stuff before.

They make some flawed assumptions here.

1. FOX going all out for NFL games could just be their deliberately taking a different and less competitive stance with ESPN since now if ESPN makes money they make money. So assuming that FOX is going all in on sports broadcasting is erroneous. NBC, ABC, and CBS have not gone all in on college ball when they they had the NFL.

2. 2020 may be about right for the backdoor talks to begin for 2022-3 movement. The buyout of the last two years of the GOR won't amount to much for Texas and Oklahoma.

3. However, if ESPN gets concerned about new entrants into their world the incentive will be there for them to place all 10 of the Big 12 schools and renegotiate contracts, extending their deadlines, before things open up for all parties to get involved. That and that alone could make this pop before 2020. This would be especially true if ESPN tries to land some Texas product for the opening of the ACCN in 2019. A move to 20 schools in the SEC and ACC could absorb the Big 12 easily.

Texas, Baylor, T.C.U. and Kansas State to the ACC with Notre Dame all in and you are at 20.

Iowa State, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, and West Virginia to the SEC and you can make the move at the end of the coming season.

4. If ESPN opts not to go that route then the bidding for OU and UT will be all out in 2020 for 2023.

5. ESPN goes all out for the rest of the Big 10 contract and then divides the Big 12 property 3 ways. This still works for them when the B1G contract comes up for renewal in 2022.

6. ESPN goes for the PACN and that makes a Texas move with friends possible to the PAC.

Somehow in these I don't see a big FOX push for college product being a factor. They could just get a wink from ESPN and hold their own. They could give ESPN a wink and let them take a little bit more. Or they could sell out to an ESPN competitor and let whatever ESPN makes in the market be their stake in the profits. This is why some have speculated that Murdoch may sell out to Amazon for large number of shares of Amazon stock. Disney and Amazon are two stocks to hold onto.

So it's going to get interesting. But remember this, outside of the PAC which right now can't offer the financial package necessary to attract Oklahoma or Texas, the SEC is the only conference than can take OSU to get OU. No matter what happens that is still our ace in a whole to get OU and OU is our ace in the hole to get UT.

Texas will make $$$ no matter which conference it decides to join. Consequently, I think the key to landing Texas is taking as many little brothers as possible. I honestly see OU and OSU going to the SEC. If the PAC is willing to take TT, TCU, and possibly Houston, then I could see Texas going to the PAC. ESPN converts the LHN into the PAC 16 Lone Star Network for a % of the PACN. The Longhorns would be the highest grossing school in the PAC 16—which further boosts its ego….

This could be especially true if ESPN buys a controlling share of the PACN. Then if they rolled the LHN into that it becomes very doable. But remember they already have a controlling interest in the ACCN and will need a bigger draw to gain the carriage needed for the launch. So the ACC taking Texas and little brothers is also possible, and even more so if the PAC doesn't sell a controlling interest in their network.

I see you point my friend.... However, the ACC already has north/south/football/baskeball identity issues in my opinion. I think adding Texas would be detrimental to the ACC long term.

The FrankenCoast Conference already has two grafted body parts why not three? You have a head from the dying Big East, a torso from the old core, legs from Southern Independents and Miami, so why not booted feet from a dying Big 12? With Notre Dame you have a voting block of 4 against a voting block of 6 maybe 7 core schools, against the football first independents & Miami add to maybe 3 from Texas. They will have to govern by coalition or consensus. But with the Irish, Heels and Horns representing three of those groups the ego competition alone might be worth ratings. It might be the only conference in history whose conference meetings if televised might out draw their football.

(02-18-2018 08:58 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 08:49 PM)Underdog Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 08:38 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 08:09 PM)Underdog Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 10:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  They make some flawed assumptions here.

1. FOX going all out for NFL games could just be their deliberately taking a different and less competitive stance with ESPN since now if ESPN makes money they make money. So assuming that FOX is going all in on sports broadcasting is erroneous. NBC, ABC, and CBS have not gone all in on college ball when they they had the NFL.

2. 2020 may be about right for the backdoor talks to begin for 2022-3 movement. The buyout of the last two years of the GOR won't amount to much for Texas and Oklahoma.

3. However, if ESPN gets concerned about new entrants into their world the incentive will be there for them to place all 10 of the Big 12 schools and renegotiate contracts, extending their deadlines, before things open up for all parties to get involved. That and that alone could make this pop before 2020. This would be especially true if ESPN tries to land some Texas product for the opening of the ACCN in 2019. A move to 20 schools in the SEC and ACC could absorb the Big 12 easily.

Texas, Baylor, T.C.U. and Kansas State to the ACC with Notre Dame all in and you are at 20.

Iowa State, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, and West Virginia to the SEC and you can make the move at the end of the coming season.

4. If ESPN opts not to go that route then the bidding for OU and UT will be all out in 2020 for 2023.

5. ESPN goes all out for the rest of the Big 10 contract and then divides the Big 12 property 3 ways. This still works for them when the B1G contract comes up for renewal in 2022.

6. ESPN goes for the PACN and that makes a Texas move with friends possible to the PAC.

Somehow in these I don't see a big FOX push for college product being a factor. They could just get a wink from ESPN and hold their own. They could give ESPN a wink and let them take a little bit more. Or they could sell out to an ESPN competitor and let whatever ESPN makes in the market be their stake in the profits. This is why some have speculated that Murdoch may sell out to Amazon for large number of shares of Amazon stock. Disney and Amazon are two stocks to hold onto.

So it's going to get interesting. But remember this, outside of the PAC which right now can't offer the financial package necessary to attract Oklahoma or Texas, the SEC is the only conference than can take OSU to get OU. No matter what happens that is still our ace in a whole to get OU and OU is our ace in the hole to get UT.

Texas will make $$$ no matter which conference it decides to join. Consequently, I think the key to landing Texas is taking as many little brothers as possible. I honestly see OU and OSU going to the SEC. If the PAC is willing to take TT, TCU, and possibly Houston, then I could see Texas going to the PAC. ESPN converts the LHN into the PAC 16 Lone Star Network for a % of the PACN. The Longhorns would be the highest grossing school in the PAC 16—which further boosts its ego….

This could be especially true if ESPN buys a controlling share of the PACN. Then if they rolled the LHN into that it becomes very doable. But remember they already have a controlling interest in the ACCN and will need a bigger draw to gain the carriage needed for the launch. So the ACC taking Texas and little brothers is also possible, and even more so if the PAC doesn't sell a controlling interest in their network.

I see you point my friend.... However, the ACC already has north/south/football/baskeball identity issues in my opinion. I think adding Texas would be detrimental to the ACC long term.

The FrankenCoast Conference already has two grafted body parts why not three? You have a head from the dying Big East, a torso from the old core, legs from Southern Independents and Miami, so why not booted feet from a dying Big 12? With Notre Dame you have a voting block of 4 against a voting block of 6 maybe 7 core schools, against the football first independents & Miami add to maybe 3 from Texas. They will have to govern by coalition or consensus. But with the Irish, Heels and Horns representing three of those groups the ego competition alone might be worth ratings. It might be the only conference in history whose conference meetings if televised might out draw their football.

FrankenCoast is a good term. If the Big 12 is split three ways in the next shift, there will certainly be room in some conferences for the next/next shift. If the next shift knocks out the Big 12, then the next/next shift should either knock out the PAC or the ACC. PAC has less money right now, but Franken conferences rarely stick together. but...

If the SEC/Big 10 go after UNC/Duke/UVA that really is the old core. In my most recent proposals I have the SEC grabbing Clemson/UNC, which would leave Duke/UVA for the Big 10.

What the ACC would be left with is those old Independents, old Big East schools. That actually might be a better overall cultural fit but not as strong as a conference overall.

Pitt/Syracuse/ND/Louisville/VT/Boston College
FSU/GT/Miami/Wake/NC State

Texas could fit in well with that group or still wind up in the PAC. At 11 teams left over, the ACC could easily have room for Tech/Houston with Texas to get to 14, or add UConn and Cincy to keep the balance north/south/ bball/football and go to 16. It would certainly be easier to remember divisions.

So: if the ACC gets Texas in the next round, they can survive the next/next round too even if they lose their core.

If Texas goes to the SEC along with Tech, then the SEC may not have room for ACC schools later, and the ACC survives.

If Texas goes to the PAC, then the ACC could wind up at 11 schools and wind up with UConn/Cincy and ? (USF? UCF? Houston?) To try and keep the balance.

Seems to me like the ACC is actually the one Franken Conference that is well primed to survive a raid, even more so if ESPN will not allow the ACCN to lose prome content to the SEC and there is no raid.

The mishmash may work in their favor.

(02-13-2018 09:36 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Greg Flugaur

@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“Tectonic Plates of Realignment will start to move around and build some heat 24 months from now. All kinds of back channel talks will begin among University Presidents and Top Media Executives”

--------------------


Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“Sometime in the Spring of 2020 Universities among the Big 12 will need to start pushing Oklahoma & Texas on their vision going forward.”

---------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“It has to start in 2020. Oklahoma will be gathering options in back channel talks with PAC, Big Ten & SEC. Oklahoma’s 3rd Tier Contract ends in 2022. Oklahoma will want to create feeding frenzy. Everyone in industry know this to be true”

----------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

“FOX Sports is loading up. Just acquired NFL Thursday Night Package. FOX Sports offered way above competitors for new NFL Package. FOX Sports now all-in on live sport content”

-----------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“There is nothing going on inside Big 12. No Conference initiatives to build any Big Conference new platforms big or small to help drive Big 12 brand in any growing capacity”

-------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“It is true, today everything is quiet. But it’s also inconceivable talks stay dormant past Spring of 2020”. Big Business needs a runway”

--------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“Everyone will load up to push their best possible deals toward Oklahoma. You only can get Texas if you get Oklahoma. If you come up short on Texas you still get a University in OU which will greatly adds to any Conference.”

---------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“PAC’s apparel deals among its top line branded Universities show an underrated value within its Conference. Must, and will, simplify its Conference Network into one media box. Need to unravel its complexity”

----------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“Some in industry expect USC to leak out info on them looking at and researching possible path toward Independence in Football to push PAC into some reform in next few years, but nobody will take these leaks seriously”

----------------------------

Greg Flugaur
‏
@flugempire
2h2 hours ago

BTM

“PAC has no interest in any merger with Big 12. This discussion wouldn’t get past the first open meeting at Berkeley. This is not a serious topic.”

-----------------------------

Well, there you go.

For some of these, I think I've heard some of this stuff before.

I trust Fluge o whole lot more than any of the other twitteratti:
1. he’s actually gotten many things right repeatedly, not just in football but other college sports too.
2. He doesn’t have to be the first to say a rumor, I’ll just give said rumor more credence if he also endorses it.
3. I just don’t believe the PAC will consider taking OU and OSU. Last time those two were turned down as they would lower the exposure the other schools would get against the coveted California schools.
4. Fluge is right: to land Texas, ya need Oklahoma just to have a shot. Losing OU from the yearly schedule would be the final straw, in my opinion, to get the student body and fans to force the Texas admin to finally move to another conference with some of their historic rivals.
5. I will disagree with the Fox Sports stance that that company will spend massively on more college sports just because they overspent on Thursday Night Football. ESPN overspent on MNF and that was a drain on the books and operations. Fox has some cash today from the sale of the majority of the Movie studio and RSNs, but that cash should be spent before 2022 when realignment kicks into high gear.
6. With the possible addition of OU and OSU, the SEC would officially branch out into another region of the country and give Missouri and Arkansas fans easier destinations to travel to for games.

(02-18-2018 11:59 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 08:58 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 08:49 PM)Underdog Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 08:38 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 08:09 PM)Underdog Wrote:  Texas will make $$$ no matter which conference it decides to join. Consequently, I think the key to landing Texas is taking as many little brothers as possible. I honestly see OU and OSU going to the SEC. If the PAC is willing to take TT, TCU, and possibly Houston, then I could see Texas going to the PAC. ESPN converts the LHN into the PAC 16 Lone Star Network for a % of the PACN. The Longhorns would be the highest grossing school in the PAC 16—which further boosts its ego….

This could be especially true if ESPN buys a controlling share of the PACN. Then if they rolled the LHN into that it becomes very doable. But remember they already have a controlling interest in the ACCN and will need a bigger draw to gain the carriage needed for the launch. So the ACC taking Texas and little brothers is also possible, and even more so if the PAC doesn't sell a controlling interest in their network.

I see you point my friend.... However, the ACC already has north/south/football/baskeball identity issues in my opinion. I think adding Texas would be detrimental to the ACC long term.

The FrankenCoast Conference already has two grafted body parts why not three? You have a head from the dying Big East, a torso from the old core, legs from Southern Independents and Miami, so why not booted feet from a dying Big 12? With Notre Dame you have a voting block of 4 against a voting block of 6 maybe 7 core schools, against the football first independents & Miami add to maybe 3 from Texas. They will have to govern by coalition or consensus. But with the Irish, Heels and Horns representing three of those groups the ego competition alone might be worth ratings. It might be the only conference in history whose conference meetings if televised might out draw their football.

FrankenCoast is a good term. If the Big 12 is split three ways in the next shift, there will certainly be room in some conferences for the next/next shift. If the next shift knocks out the Big 12, then the next/next shift should either knock out the PAC or the ACC. PAC has less money right now, but Franken conferences rarely stick together. but...

If the SEC/Big 10 go after UNC/Duke/UVA that really is the old core. In my most recent proposals I have the SEC grabbing Clemson/UNC, which would leave Duke/UVA for the Big 10.

What the ACC would be left with is those old Independents, old Big East schools. That actually might be a better overall cultural fit but not as strong as a conference overall.

Pitt/Syracuse/ND/Louisville/VT/Boston College
FSU/GT/Miami/Wake/NC State

Texas could fit in well with that group or still wind up in the PAC. At 11 teams left over, the ACC could easily have room for Tech/Houston with Texas to get to 14, or add UConn and Cincy to keep the balance north/south/ bball/football and go to 16. It would certainly be easier to remember divisions.

So: if the ACC gets Texas in the next round, they can survive the next/next round too even if they lose their core.

If Texas goes to the SEC along with Tech, then the SEC may not have room for ACC schools later, and the ACC survives.

If Texas goes to the PAC, then the ACC could wind up at 11 schools and wind up with UConn/Cincy and ? (USF? UCF? Houston?) To try and keep the balance.

Seems to me like the ACC is actually the one Franken Conference that is well primed to survive a raid, even more so if ESPN will not allow the ACCN to lose prome content to the SEC and there is no raid.

The mishmash may work in their favor.

You've touched on a truth here. The ACC could be a lot healthier if they lost Virginia, North Carolina, and Duke. But I think the division would be quite different if it ever occurred.

North Carolina and Duke to the SEC. Virginia and Notre Dame to the Big 10.

Then Texas, Oklahoma, Iowa State and Kansas can all head to the PAC.

Now you have 3 conferences of 16.

The ACC would be down to 11. So add Kansas State, Oklahoma State, T.C.U., Texas Tech, and West Virginia to the ACC.

The ACC becomes:

Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia
Louisville, N.C. State, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest
Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami
Kansas State, Oklahoma State, T.C.U., and Texas Tech.

The Big 10 becomes:

Maryland, Notre Dame, Rutgers, Virginia
Indiana, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue
Illinois, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern
Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Wisconsin

The SEC becomes:

Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, South Carolina
Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Vanderbilt
Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M

The PAC becomes:

Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
California, Cal Los Angeles, Southern Cal, Stanford
Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah
Iowa State, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas

What this does that should be natural is that it gives the top brands of the ACC and Big 12 raises by their movement to the B1G, SEC, & PAC.

And the ACC which is already the FrankenCoast conference remains a P5 and Florida State and Clemson become the Kings and West Virginia and T.C.U. and Texas Tech add to their football gravitas along with Miami, N.C. State, Louisville, and Georgia Tech with Kansas State added as long as Snyder is coaching.

How plausible is this?
Oklahoma + Oklahoma State to the SEC
Texas + TCU to the ACC
leaves the Big Ten to decide if they want Kansas + Iowa State

BTW, I prefer if the ACC could get WVU + Texas + TCU + maybe Iowa State, Houston or even Memphis as a bridge.
Then, if the SEC takes OU + OSU + Texas Tech + Kansas, that pretty much kills the Big XII (leaving only Baylor and Kansas State behind).

(02-19-2018 01:53 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  How plausible is this?
Oklahoma + Oklahoma State to the SEC
Texas + TCU to the ACC
leaves the Big Ten to decide if they want Kansas + Iowa State

BTW, I prefer if the ACC could get WVU + Texas + TCU + maybe Iowa State, Houston or even Memphis as a bridge.
Then, if the SEC takes OU + OSU + Texas Tech + Kansas, that pretty much kills the Big XII (leaving only Baylor and Kansas State behind).

Mark, I think ESPN will be seriously remiss if they don't lock up the Big 12 early. I think the can pay the SEC and ACC what it takes to cover them.

In the SEC's case Oklahoma and Kansas give us Missouri's rival and all we need to fill out DFW. Taking Tech is a courtesy to help Texas move to the ACC. Taking Oklahoma State is necessary to keep the RRR the only OOC game that the Sooners have to play.

I think Texas would want T.C.U. and Baylor in your move. But what would cinch the deal for them is a division of their own. You can't give them that in an 18 school conference. They would need a division of 6 in a 3 division ACC, or a division of 9 in a 2 division ACC (and 9 team divisions is a bear to schedule anyway). The only solution I see is a 20 school ACC which means that Texas could have a 5 team division. Assuming N.D. goes all in you could place Miami easily into a division of Texas, T.C.U., Baylor and Kansas State. The Canes literally fly everywhere they play anyway and Texas would love the chance to play in Florida regularly.

That's 4 of the Big 12 schools.

Even if the SEC only expanded to 18 it would be enough to dissolve the Big 12. But if we went to 20 then all of them will have been absorbed. That's a lot of content in a football crazy area which is good for the conferences and ESPN long term. Iowa State, W.V.U., Kansas and Oklahoma would give us 4 new states. Oklahoma State is a small price to pay and Texas Tech would cover about the only part of Texas the SEC doesn't really reach.

The biggest problem with this approach is that ESPN would have to lock us in at levels where everyone makes money. If it is just left up to those which naturally add value then Oklahoma and Texas together is what every conference would want and settling on one with a little brother still pays the bills.

The ACC would probably still benefit from the two privates. Both are above your means in revenue and within 3 thousand of your mean in attendance. West Virginia is above both.

So If ESPN doesn't want to sink more money into the product then we wait and take what we can get and what they will pay for. If we move now and thy want to sink the extra money into landing these schools and using them to assist both networks then we could do it now announce it in the Fall and make the moves by 2019. I don't think FOX would squawk and it beats the Amazons of the world to the punch.

If nobody is left out, and it paid the current B12 members more, and put them into conferences with equitable distribution and allowed them to play old conference mates that didn't move with them in an OOC game played annually, what's there to grouse about?

(02-19-2018 01:53 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  How plausible is this?
Oklahoma + Oklahoma State to the SEC
Texas + TCU to the ACC
leaves the Big Ten to decide if they want Kansas + Iowa State

BTW, I prefer if the ACC could get WVU + Texas + TCU + maybe Iowa State, Houston or even Memphis as a bridge.
Then, if the SEC takes OU + OSU + Texas Tech + Kansas, that pretty much kills the Big XII (leaving only Baylor and Kansas State behind).

What you might see would be Texas and TCU to the ACC,

Missouri and Kansas to the B1G,

Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and West Virginia to the SEC,

No conference will move beyond 16 at this time.

(02-19-2018 05:32 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 01:53 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  How plausible is this?
Oklahoma + Oklahoma State to the SEC
Texas + TCU to the ACC
leaves the Big Ten to decide if they want Kansas + Iowa State

BTW, I prefer if the ACC could get WVU + Texas + TCU + maybe Iowa State, Houston or even Memphis as a bridge.
Then, if the SEC takes OU + OSU + Texas Tech + Kansas, that pretty much kills the Big XII (leaving only Baylor and Kansas State behind).

What you might see would be Texas and TCU to the ACC,

Missouri and Kansas to the B1G,

Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and West Virginia to the SEC,

No conference will move beyond 16 at this time.

You just gave the SEC 3 more teams. 14+3=17

(02-19-2018 06:38 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 05:32 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 01:53 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  How plausible is this?
Oklahoma + Oklahoma State to the SEC
Texas + TCU to the ACC
leaves the Big Ten to decide if they want Kansas + Iowa State

BTW, I prefer if the ACC could get WVU + Texas + TCU + maybe Iowa State, Houston or even Memphis as a bridge.
Then, if the SEC takes OU + OSU + Texas Tech + Kansas, that pretty much kills the Big XII (leaving only Baylor and Kansas State behind).

What you might see would be Texas and TCU to the ACC,

Missouri and Kansas to the B1G,

Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and West Virginia to the SEC,

No conference will move beyond 16 at this time.

You just gave the SEC 3 more teams. 14+3=17

Missouri to the B1G.......... 14-1+3+16.

(02-19-2018 07:18 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 06:38 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 05:32 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 01:53 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  How plausible is this?
Oklahoma + Oklahoma State to the SEC
Texas + TCU to the ACC
leaves the Big Ten to decide if they want Kansas + Iowa State

BTW, I prefer if the ACC could get WVU + Texas + TCU + maybe Iowa State, Houston or even Memphis as a bridge.
Then, if the SEC takes OU + OSU + Texas Tech + Kansas, that pretty much kills the Big XII (leaving only Baylor and Kansas State behind).

What you might see would be Texas and TCU to the ACC,

Missouri and Kansas to the B1G,

Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and West Virginia to the SEC,

No conference will move beyond 16 at this time.

You just gave the SEC 3 more teams. 14+3=17

Missouri to the B1G.......... 14-1+3+16.

Here we go again...