Pastner was too mental to coach and wouldn't hire good strategerists.

Tubby can't recruit and won't hire good recruiters. He can't even close the deal on Memphis kids who wanted to be Tigers.

Can't we have both this time?

(02-12-2018 04:40 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  Pastner was too mental to coach and wouldn't hire good strageterists.

Tubby can't recruit, can't close the deal on even the Memphis kids and won't hire good recruiters.

Can't we have both this time?

Amen. You would think it's not too much to ask.

And that's partly why the admin needs to be respectful and careful in terms of how they handle the inevitable separation with Tubby IMO.
Fire a HOF'er after only 2 years? That could scare some folks away.

(02-12-2018 03:12 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(02-12-2018 01:45 PM)Cotten Wrote:  

(02-12-2018 01:18 PM)skunk100 Wrote:  

(02-12-2018 01:01 PM)Cotten Wrote:  They already know they made a bad hire. The firing issue is strictly a business decision, fear has nothing to do with it. Which costs the financiers/UM more, keeping Tubby for another year or dumping him after this year?

The people making the decision have access to the real numbers, including considerations about how the inflation rate affects the value of Tubby's buyout if deferred over 6 or 4 years, etc. We have brilliant, successful businessmen on our BOR and among our boosters who are advising our president. Let them figure this out, most of you can't balance your own damn checkbook.

Agreed on all accounts. I am looking at this from a branding and marketing perspective and the bottom line is that the Memphis brand is crumbling so rapidly that it is beyond time to make a change. From the standpoint of branding, if we do not step up and step in now, it will be astronomically more costly longterm to repair and improve the brand from its currently public and national perception, which is weak, poor, incompetent and lacks passion, purpose, discipline and desire to achieve. We are laughed at, mocked and ridiculed. Memphis is a tribe and we need a leader. It doesn't take dollars to fix this.

In terms of media deals, football is the brand that matters and it's never been stronger. To have a competitive future in any athletics including basketball, we have to draw eyeballs to TVs during football season. If we fail at that, the entire house crumbles. We can only rely on our rich uncles for so much.

And somehow we have to make sure that Norvell stays on board for at least two to three more years.

the only way to keep Norvell for 2 or three more years is to start losing, Ill pass

(02-12-2018 11:25 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  This has noting to do with 'guts', it has everything to do with money.

If anyone, either member or non member of this board comes up with a big chunk of money to help buy out Tubby, guts will not come into play. Those that put the money up to fund his contract did so hoping he was the answer. They made a mistake. Maybe they got bad advice or maybe they ignored advice and forced their hand or maybe.... It's water under the bridge.

The big money boosters may have backed the wrong horse, but *someone* signed off on that buyout. If the boosters are writing the contract details, which I doubt, they're out of control. If it was handled by the athletic department, as it should have been, alarm bells should have been going off, especially in light of what happened with Pastner.

(02-12-2018 05:00 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  

(02-12-2018 11:25 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  This has noting to do with 'guts', it has everything to do with money.

If anyone, either member or non member of this board comes up with a big chunk of money to help buy out Tubby, guts will not come into play. Those that put the money up to fund his contract did so hoping he was the answer. They made a mistake. Maybe they got bad advice or maybe they ignored advice and forced their hand or maybe.... It's water under the bridge.

The big money boosters may have backed the wrong horse, but *someone* signed off on that buyout. If the boosters are writing the contract details, which I doubt, they're out of control. If it was handled by the athletic department, as it should have been, alarm bells should have been going off, especially in light of what happened with Pastner.

Exactly.

(02-12-2018 05:00 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  

(02-12-2018 11:25 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  This has noting to do with 'guts', it has everything to do with money.

If anyone, either member or non member of this board comes up with a big chunk of money to help buy out Tubby, guts will not come into play. Those that put the money up to fund his contract did so hoping he was the answer. They made a mistake. Maybe they got bad advice or maybe they ignored advice and forced their hand or maybe.... It's water under the bridge.

The big money boosters may have backed the wrong horse, but *someone* signed off on that buyout. If the boosters are writing the contract details, which I doubt, they're out of control. If it was handled by the athletic department, as it should have been, alarm bells should have been going off, especially in light of what happened with Pastner.

there is NO WAY Tubby would have left Texas Tech with a guaranteed buyout from us. He HAD a guaranteed contract he was not going to move to a "non-guaranteed" contract.

Same with any established coach

I didn't say no guarantee... perhaps I misunderstand the situation. I thought that the problem was that the guarantee was so large that firing Tubby isn't a viable option, and that unless an angel stepped up with a fat check your hands were pretty well tied. Georgia Tech bailed Memphis out on Pastner, but no one is going to do that with Tubby.

(02-12-2018 04:41 PM)Cotten Wrote:  

(02-12-2018 04:40 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  Pastner was too mental to coach and wouldn't hire good strageterists.

Tubby can't recruit, can't close the deal on even the Memphis kids and won't hire good recruiters.

Can't we have both this time?

Amen. You would think it's not too much to ask.

And that's partly why the admin needs to be respectful and careful in terms of how they handle the inevitable separation with Tubby IMO.
Fire a HOF'er after only 2 years? That could scare some folks away.

O no you don't. lol I ain't making that leap. HOF'er is mostly just a boys club. Err'body loves Tubby. He will never encroach in your territory and doesn't mind if you do it in his.


Only the weak folks would be scared away.

(02-12-2018 05:05 PM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  

(02-12-2018 05:00 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  

(02-12-2018 11:25 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  This has noting to do with 'guts', it has everything to do with money.

If anyone, either member or non member of this board comes up with a big chunk of money to help buy out Tubby, guts will not come into play. Those that put the money up to fund his contract did so hoping he was the answer. They made a mistake. Maybe they got bad advice or maybe they ignored advice and forced their hand or maybe.... It's water under the bridge.

The big money boosters may have backed the wrong horse, but *someone* signed off on that buyout. If the boosters are writing the contract details, which I doubt, they're out of control. If it was handled by the athletic department, as it should have been, alarm bells should have been going off, especially in light of what happened with Pastner.

there is NO WAY Tubby would have left Texas Tech with a guaranteed buyout from us. He HAD a guaranteed contract he was not going to move to a "non-guaranteed" contract.

Same with any established coach

It was ridiculous to sign off on a 5 year, guaranteed $15 million deal for Tubby Smith.

(02-12-2018 05:16 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  

(02-12-2018 05:05 PM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  

(02-12-2018 05:00 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  

(02-12-2018 11:25 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  This has noting to do with 'guts', it has everything to do with money.

If anyone, either member or non member of this board comes up with a big chunk of money to help buy out Tubby, guts will not come into play. Those that put the money up to fund his contract did so hoping he was the answer. They made a mistake. Maybe they got bad advice or maybe they ignored advice and forced their hand or maybe.... It's water under the bridge.

The big money boosters may have backed the wrong horse, but *someone* signed off on that buyout. If the boosters are writing the contract details, which I doubt, they're out of control. If it was handled by the athletic department, as it should have been, alarm bells should have been going off, especially in light of what happened with Pastner.

there is NO WAY Tubby would have left Texas Tech with a guaranteed buyout from us. He HAD a guaranteed contract he was not going to move to a "non-guaranteed" contract.

Same with any established coach

It was ridiculous to sign off on a 5 year, guaranteed $15 million deal for Tubby Smith.

Oh , I agree... When the Tubby to Memphis rumors started , I even went so far as to guarantee that we were not going to hire him, I really thought that our Administration was not that stupid. I was wrong.

But if you were going to hire him it was going to take a fully guaranteed contract for 5 years, otherwise he would have just stayed at TTech.

This one had the guts. And they got **** for it, especially since they'd just won their first non-vacated NCAA . But they didn't care.

http://www.startribune.com/was-firing-tu...199979991/

Transfers - When you look at the players that have transferred (for one reason or another from the program) you look at a group of very talented players that have flourished at others schools. Colton Iverson (Colorado State), Justin Cobbs (Cal), Devoe Joseph (Oregon), Royce White (Iowa State), Paul Carter (Illinois-Chicago), and Chip Armelin (Southern Miss). You can debate why some of them transferred, but the theme here is that they've all done extremely well at their schools (aside from Armelin who is sitting out due to his redshirt transfer year) and have developed in ways we hadn't seen them under Tubby.

When you look at the talent Tubby has developed, he went to 2 out of the 3 NCAA appearances with Dan Monson's players. Blake Hoffarber, Damian Johnson, and Al Nolen were three of the best players in Tubby's tenure. I make it a rule to not single out college players as much as possible, but let's just say that Tubby has not sufficiently developed many high potential guys.

Revnue/Ticket sales - When you have a big time Coach like Tubby Smith, you pay the big bucks because they are suppose to draw in a lot of revenue. However, as I wrote about in an earlier blog (http://www.startribune.com/sports/gopher...511.html), after the spike in ticket sales when Tubby was first hired, they have steadily declined. Public basketball ticket sales have dropped 20.68% and student season ticket sales are down 37.45% since 2007.

Conference play, and particularly, play in February. In the past 3 years we've gone 5-17 in the Big 10 in February...that's not exactly the kind of results you want when you're competing to get into the NCAA tournament or contend for the Big Ten title. Tubby also never finished above 6th in the Big 10 in 6 seasons. These are just a few key elements, not even digging deep into the play calling, recruiting, and subbing patterns.


......


"We're at a crossroads, either you reward mediocrity (and I'm using that term generously) or you move on. "

(02-12-2018 01:43 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  

(02-12-2018 10:31 AM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  Does the administration have the guts to admit the Tubby hire has been a colossal failure and make a change?

They know it was mistake, we know it was a mistake and my 4-year-old daughter knows it was mistake.

The question is now whether they will find a way to eat the remaining $9 million on Tubby's contract so they can bring in someone else. It could be a matter of getting creative and causing so much friction with Tubby that he walks away or it could mean begging the big money boosters to make it happen.

Either way, we'll know in about two-three months if they have the guts.

I say no. Tubby Time again next year. Will make the NIT with a senior laden team and then Tubby and staff will get a raise and an extension before all the wheels fall off in year 4.

The ONLY way "The Tubb" gets an extension

(02-12-2018 05:00 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  

(02-12-2018 11:25 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  This has noting to do with 'guts', it has everything to do with money.

If anyone, either member or non member of this board comes up with a big chunk of money to help buy out Tubby, guts will not come into play. Those that put the money up to fund his contract did so hoping he was the answer. They made a mistake. Maybe they got bad advice or maybe they ignored advice and forced their hand or maybe.... It's water under the bridge.

The big money boosters may have backed the wrong horse, but *someone* signed off on that buyout. If the boosters are writing the contract details, which I doubt, they're out of control. If it was handled by the athletic department, as it should have been, alarm bells should have been going off, especially in light of what happened with Pastner.

No doubt, and when the money men signed off on it they probably said something along the lines of "if I take this on, understand that I'm paying to fire him after 2 years"

lol

ok...

that's just funny

(02-14-2018 03:51 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  lol

ok...

that's just funny

How so?

(02-14-2018 03:59 PM)Cotten Wrote:  

(02-14-2018 03:51 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  lol

ok...

that's just funny

How so?

I didn't see your post

(02-14-2018 04:02 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(02-14-2018 03:59 PM)Cotten Wrote:  

(02-14-2018 03:51 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  lol

ok...

that's just funny

How so?

I didn't see your post

Ahh, I thought you were turning heel on me, like Lawler pulling his hand back when Dundee reached out for the tag.