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Ourland Offline
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Post: #81
RE: UTSA Students Vote Against Athletic Fee Hike
(02-22-2018 10:47 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(02-22-2018 09:16 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  
(02-21-2018 01:52 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(02-21-2018 01:25 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  There is an obvious solution to a better conference for fans and student athletes, redraw the CUSA/SBC lines.

No thank you. That is not a better solution. C-USA West would not benefit from adding the western Sun Belt programs. As a collection they would not add any extra value, nor would they collectively add any prestige to our current line-up. Arkansas State is the only Sun Belt program I would even be interested in. So, I will amend my original opinion... There is no substantially better situation among the other G5 conferences, and realigning with the Sun Belt shouldn't even be considered.

Many western SBC schools would say the same thing about North Texas. Both conference have bottom halves naturally.

They could, but that would be stupid. North Texas is the current C-USA Western Division Champ and has been to 3 bowl games since joining C-USA 5 years ago. C-USA West does not have a bottom half. 5 of our 7 teams finished the season bowl eligible. Only Rice and UTEP failed to reach 6 wins last season.

Every Sun Belt program west of the Mississippi, except Arkansas State, finished last season with a losing record. The teams in C-USA West will not consider any kind of realignment.

The realigning of the Sun Belt and CUSA is coming quicker than I think anyone may realize. Attendance is awful and there is no meaningful TV deal. Travel costs are only rising. I doubt every school makes the cut, but most of the schools will reorganize into two new conferences
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2018 03:20 AM by Ourland.)
02-24-2018 03:19 AM
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Post: #82
RE: UTSA Students Vote Against Athletic Fee Hike
(02-24-2018 03:19 AM)Ourland Wrote:  
(02-22-2018 10:47 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(02-22-2018 09:16 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  
(02-21-2018 01:52 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(02-21-2018 01:25 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  There is an obvious solution to a better conference for fans and student athletes, redraw the CUSA/SBC lines.

No thank you. That is not a better solution. C-USA West would not benefit from adding the western Sun Belt programs. As a collection they would not add any extra value, nor would they collectively add any prestige to our current line-up. Arkansas State is the only Sun Belt program I would even be interested in. So, I will amend my original opinion... There is no substantially better situation among the other G5 conferences, and realigning with the Sun Belt shouldn't even be considered.

Many western SBC schools would say the same thing about North Texas. Both conference have bottom halves naturally.

They could, but that would be stupid. North Texas is the current C-USA Western Division Champ and has been to 3 bowl games since joining C-USA 5 years ago. C-USA West does not have a bottom half. 5 of our 7 teams finished the season bowl eligible. Only Rice and UTEP failed to reach 6 wins last season.

Every Sun Belt program west of the Mississippi, except Arkansas State, finished last season with a losing record. The teams in C-USA West will not consider any kind of realignment.

The realigning of the Sun Belt and CUSA is coming quicker than I think anyone may realize. Attendance is awful and there is no meaningful TV deal. Travel costs are only rising. I doubt every school makes the cut, but most of the schools will reorganize into two new conferences

Everything will hinge on what happens with the Big 12. Four of the Big 12's top programs (Texas, OK, OK St, and Kansas) could end up as new members of the Pac 12 and Big 10 as we see a new Power Four Conferences organization develop. If that happens, what's left of the Big 12 will have no choice but to raid G5 conferences for replacement members.

The AAC would probably lose Houston, Memphis, UCF, and USF. Without those four schools, the AAC would be back on par with the rest of us. The question then would be which CUSA or Sun Belt schools would be leaving to join up with those AAC powerhouse programs like SMU, Tulsa, and Tulane that were once again let behind.

Rice would be a natural fit, while USM, Marshall, UAB, and UTEP would all bolt for the AAC in a heartbeat in an attempt to regain some of their past "Glory Days". Of course, there's no guarantee that any of those programs would be offered.

I think we're likely to see some sort of geographical realignment of the AAC, CUSA, and the Sun Belt at that time.
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2018 06:17 AM by BRtransplant.)
02-24-2018 06:15 AM
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Side Show Joe Offline
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Post: #83
RE: UTSA Students Vote Against Athletic Fee Hike
(02-24-2018 03:19 AM)Ourland Wrote:  
(02-22-2018 10:47 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(02-22-2018 09:16 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  
(02-21-2018 01:52 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(02-21-2018 01:25 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  There is an obvious solution to a better conference for fans and student athletes, redraw the CUSA/SBC lines.

No thank you. That is not a better solution. C-USA West would not benefit from adding the western Sun Belt programs. As a collection they would not add any extra value, nor would they collectively add any prestige to our current line-up. Arkansas State is the only Sun Belt program I would even be interested in. So, I will amend my original opinion... There is no substantially better situation among the other G5 conferences, and realigning with the Sun Belt shouldn't even be considered.

Many western SBC schools would say the same thing about North Texas. Both conference have bottom halves naturally.

They could, but that would be stupid. North Texas is the current C-USA Western Division Champ and has been to 3 bowl games since joining C-USA 5 years ago. C-USA West does not have a bottom half. 5 of our 7 teams finished the season bowl eligible. Only Rice and UTEP failed to reach 6 wins last season.

Every Sun Belt program west of the Mississippi, except Arkansas State, finished last season with a losing record. The teams in C-USA West will not consider any kind of realignment.

The realigning of the Sun Belt and CUSA is coming quicker than I think anyone may realize. Attendance is awful and there is no meaningful TV deal. Travel costs are only rising. I doubt every school makes the cut, but most of the schools will reorganize into two new conferences

There are not enough votes in C-USA to force a realignment. The four Texas programs and probably LA Tech would not vote to add all of the Sun Belt programs that was West of the Mississippi (Arkansas State, ULL, ULM, and Texas State). That is the truth.

The only possible realignment would happen as BRtransplant stated. The Big12 would have to kick it off, and that has no possibility of happening until the playoff, bowl, and media contracts are resigned.
02-24-2018 10:38 AM
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Post: #84
RE: UTSA Students Vote Against Athletic Fee Hike
Wrong. Sbc is at ten. Four CUSA teams could defect...perhaps six...if Marshall, USM, WKU, and mtsu went to a more regional division of the sbc, CUSA would be virtually worthless. Even more so if FAU and FIU came along..

Votes don't matter one iota
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2018 10:58 AM by THUNDERGround.)
02-24-2018 10:48 AM
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Side Show Joe Offline
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Post: #85
RE: UTSA Students Vote Against Athletic Fee Hike
(02-24-2018 10:48 AM)THUNDERGround Wrote:  Wrong. Sbc is at ten. Four CUSA teams could defect...perhaps six...if Marshall, USM, WKU, and mtsu went to a more regional division of the sbc, CUSA would be virtually worthless...

Votes don't matter one iota

You are wrong.

If four or even six eastern programs defected, C-USA would still have 8 or 10 teams and collect the exit fees from the departing programs. C-USA would have more playoff money to distribute to the remaining members, while the Sun Belt would have less in their new 14 /16 team version.

If you believe that would be a better situation then fine. Any program that is unhappy and wants to throw their lot in with the Sun Belt is free to go. Try not to let the door hit you in the rear.

Since it is highly unlikely that any combination of eastern schools will leave to bloat the Sun Belt into a 14/16 member conference with no additional bowls, and a reduced playoff payout; the votes do matter, and the votes of the Texas four, plus LA Tech are enough to stop any realignment. 07-coffee3
02-24-2018 11:04 AM
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THUNDERGround Offline
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Post: #86
RE: UTSA Students Vote Against Athletic Fee Hike
okay chucko . But if your opinion is anything like your previous predictions of what will happen.... I'll stand by my opinion...
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2018 11:11 AM by THUNDERGround.)
02-24-2018 11:10 AM
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Side Show Joe Offline
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Post: #87
RE: UTSA Students Vote Against Athletic Fee Hike
(02-24-2018 11:10 AM)THUNDERGround Wrote:  okay chucko . But if your opinion is anything like your previous predictions of what will happen.... I'll stand by my opinion...

What predictions are you referring to?
02-24-2018 11:31 AM
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THUNDERGround Offline
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Post: #88
RE: UTSA Students Vote Against Athletic Fee Hike
I'm just yanking your chain Joe.... I agree with you a lot on here... just not on this particular matter....but I see your point.
02-24-2018 06:29 PM
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Ourland Offline
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Post: #89
RE: UTSA Students Vote Against Athletic Fee Hike
(02-24-2018 06:15 AM)BRtransplant Wrote:  
(02-24-2018 03:19 AM)Ourland Wrote:  
(02-22-2018 10:47 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(02-22-2018 09:16 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  
(02-21-2018 01:52 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  No thank you. That is not a better solution. C-USA West would not benefit from adding the western Sun Belt programs. As a collection they would not add any extra value, nor would they collectively add any prestige to our current line-up. Arkansas State is the only Sun Belt program I would even be interested in. So, I will amend my original opinion... There is no substantially better situation among the other G5 conferences, and realigning with the Sun Belt shouldn't even be considered.

Many western SBC schools would say the same thing about North Texas. Both conference have bottom halves naturally.

They could, but that would be stupid. North Texas is the current C-USA Western Division Champ and has been to 3 bowl games since joining C-USA 5 years ago. C-USA West does not have a bottom half. 5 of our 7 teams finished the season bowl eligible. Only Rice and UTEP failed to reach 6 wins last season.

Every Sun Belt program west of the Mississippi, except Arkansas State, finished last season with a losing record. The teams in C-USA West will not consider any kind of realignment.

The realigning of the Sun Belt and CUSA is coming quicker than I think anyone may realize. Attendance is awful and there is no meaningful TV deal. Travel costs are only rising. I doubt every school makes the cut, but most of the schools will reorganize into two new conferences

Everything will hinge on what happens with the Big 12. Four of the Big 12's top programs (Texas, OK, OK St, and Kansas) could end up as new members of the Pac 12 and Big 10 as we see a new Power Four Conferences organization develop. If that happens, what's left of the Big 12 will have no choice but to raid G5 conferences for replacement members.

The AAC would probably lose Houston, Memphis, UCF, and USF. Without those four schools, the AAC would be back on par with the rest of us. The question then would be which CUSA or Sun Belt schools would be leaving to join up with those AAC powerhouse programs like SMU, Tulsa, and Tulane that were once again let behind.

Rice would be a natural fit, while USM, Marshall, UAB, and UTEP would all bolt for the AAC in a heartbeat in an attempt to regain some of their past "Glory Days". Of course, there's no guarantee that any of those programs would be offered.

I think we're likely to see some sort of geographical realignment of the AAC, CUSA, and the Sun Belt at that time.

Yes I agree. The AAC could loses its top 4-5 programs to a new Big12. If so, CUSA West could break away, take in Tulsa, SMU, and Tulane, and call it a day. A couple area Sun Belt schools could be in the running I'd guess.

If the Big12 makes it, and I hope it does, there will be more of a large-scale merger of the SBC and CUSA in my opinion. A few schools could get left out in that scenario, and maybe that's necessary.
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2018 11:41 PM by Ourland.)
02-24-2018 11:35 PM
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Volkmar Offline
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Post: #90
RE: UTSA Students Vote Against Athletic Fee Hike
I'm astounded by how many threads on a host of different topics find their way into yet another discussion of realignment.
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2018 12:00 AM by Volkmar.)
02-24-2018 11:52 PM
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Thegoldstandard Offline
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Post: #91
RE: UTSA Students Vote Against Athletic Fee Hike
(02-24-2018 10:38 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(02-24-2018 03:19 AM)Ourland Wrote:  
(02-22-2018 10:47 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(02-22-2018 09:16 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  
(02-21-2018 01:52 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  No thank you. That is not a better solution. C-USA West would not benefit from adding the western Sun Belt programs. As a collection they would not add any extra value, nor would they collectively add any prestige to our current line-up. Arkansas State is the only Sun Belt program I would even be interested in. So, I will amend my original opinion... There is no substantially better situation among the other G5 conferences, and realigning with the Sun Belt shouldn't even be considered.

Many western SBC schools would say the same thing about North Texas. Both conference have bottom halves naturally.

They could, but that would be stupid. North Texas is the current C-USA Western Division Champ and has been to 3 bowl games since joining C-USA 5 years ago. C-USA West does not have a bottom half. 5 of our 7 teams finished the season bowl eligible. Only Rice and UTEP failed to reach 6 wins last season.

Every Sun Belt program west of the Mississippi, except Arkansas State, finished last season with a losing record. The teams in C-USA West will not consider any kind of realignment.

The realigning of the Sun Belt and CUSA is coming quicker than I think anyone may realize. Attendance is awful and there is no meaningful TV deal. Travel costs are only rising. I doubt every school makes the cut, but most of the schools will reorganize into two new conferences

There are not enough votes in C-USA to force a realignment. The four Texas programs and probably LA Tech would not vote to add all of the Sun Belt programs that was West of the Mississippi (Arkansas State, ULL, ULM, and Texas State). That is the truth.

The only possible realignment would happen as BRtransplant stated. The Big12 would have to kick it off, and that has no possibility of happening until the playoff, bowl, and media contracts are resigned.

This, nothing happens anywhere till something shakes loose up here. Then it will be one massive cluster till the dust settles
02-24-2018 11:58 PM
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Ourland Offline
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Post: #92
RE: UTSA Students Vote Against Athletic Fee Hike
At the very least, the fate of the Big12 will dictate what moves are made in the G5. If it survives, I'd still expect some reorganization along geographical lines.
02-25-2018 11:01 PM
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RE: UTSA Students Vote Against Athletic Fee Hike
(02-24-2018 11:52 PM)Volkmar Wrote:  I'm astounded by how many threads on a host of different topics find their way into yet another discussion of realignment.

Football Offseason...and it's only last few days of February.
02-26-2018 08:50 AM
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Post: #94
RE: UTSA Students Vote Against Athletic Fee Hike
Hey Joe, didn't you recently start another thread on this board asking if any meaningful rivalries have developed in CUSA? If CUSA West is the best current set up for North Texas right now, and especially with 3 other teams in your state, I'm just curious as to why North Texas hasn't developed a meaningful match up in y'all's division and struggles to fill that 30k seat stadium.

One positive of the SBC is that almost every school has a conference rival. Rivalries generate interest, bring fans out to games, and sell very well on tv. The way those rivalries developed is mostly because of being in close proximity to each other. I can understand wanting more for your school than to have the SBC west shoved at you just because they're close by, but I believe in the long run, G5 schools are better off off-setting the decrease in tv revenue by decreasing the cost of travel and increasing the chance of selling more tickets to visiting fans.

I'm not trying to stoke the embers and turn this into a realignment thread, but what happens to UNT when CUSA East and SBC East teams realize we are all within a few hours of each other and most of us have common history and former rivalries with each other? I think it'll happen regardless of what the B12 does.
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2018 03:29 PM by TrueBlueDrew.)
02-26-2018 11:46 AM
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Side Show Joe Offline
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Post: #95
RE: UTSA Students Vote Against Athletic Fee Hike
(02-26-2018 11:46 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  Hey Joe, didn't you recently start another thread on this board asking if any meaningful rivalries have developed in CUSA? If CUSA West is the best current set up for North Texas right now, and especially with 3 other teams in your state, (1) I'm just curious as to why North Texas hasn't developed a meaningful match up in y'all's division and struggles to fill that 30k seat stadium.

One positive of the SBC is that almost every school has a conference rival. Rivalries generate interest, bring fans out to games, and sell very well on tv. The way those rivalries developed is mostly because of being in close proximity to each other. I can understand wanting more for your school than to have the SBC west shoved at you just because they're close by, but (2) I believe in the long run, G5 schools are better off off-setting the decrease in tv revenue by decreasing the cost of travel and increasing the chance of selling more tickets to visiting fans.

I'm not trying to stoke the embers and turn this into a realignment thread, but (3) what happens to UNT when CUSA East and SBC East teams realize we are all within a few hours of each other and most of us have common history and former rivalries with each other? I think it'll happen regardless of what the B12 does.

1. North Texas is developing meaningful rivalries. I actually stated those in the Rivalry thread you mentioned. After just 5 seasons in C-USA West, North Texas has developed a deep dislike for UTSA, and a healthy resentment of LA Tech. Also, our series with Rice has been very fun and entertaining.

Our attendance issues have been more a result of poor leadership over a 15 year span. Our last AD was not very good at scheduling and also didn't understand how to build a winning program. Our new AD is very smart and good things are happening.

Our recent success on the field combined with growing interest in our developing rivalries has led to increases in our attendance numbers. While the national average for attendance is dropping, North Texas is one of the few programs seeing their attendance numbers improving. Last Season North Texas set a new attendance record (over 22,000). Not great but certainly getting better.



2. I think retraction as a method to save money, is small time thinking. I believe if a conference becomes too regional, they lose national appeal. I think the programs that invest wisely during this period of uncertainty will position their programs for future growth when movement does occur.

Even though those programs will remain outside of the power conferences, I believe these programs will consolidate with other like minded institutions, and overall field better football teams, that can contend with the power programs more often then those that retract into regional conferences. It is just a difference of opinions. We seem to disagree on this issue.



3. Even if 6 of the teams in C-USA East were to leave for the Sun Belt (which they won't), C-USA West would continue on as C-USA. The teams that stay would enjoy more playoff money and share plenty of exit fees. Were it to actually happen, I'd look to add Arkansas State. At that point, I think they would want out of a bloated 16 team Sun Belt.

I just don't see a scenario where jumping to the Sun Belt is a god option for any of the eastern C-USA programs.
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2018 07:23 PM by Side Show Joe.)
02-26-2018 07:23 PM
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TrueBlueDrew Online
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Post: #96
RE: UTSA Students Vote Against Athletic Fee Hike
(02-26-2018 07:23 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  3. Even if 6 of the teams in C-USA East were to leave for the Sun Belt (which they won't), C-USA West would continue on as C-USA. The teams that stay would enjoy more playoff money and share plenty of exit fees. Were it to actually happen, I'd look to add Arkansas State. At that point, I think they would want out of a bloated 16 team Sun Belt.

I just don't see a scenario where jumping to the Sun Belt is a god option for any of the eastern C-USA programs.

Thanks for the response.

In a regional realignment scenario, CUSA and the SBC would merge and split into two 12 team conferences. I know that’s not feasible, but neither is CUSA East attaching themselves to the current Sun Belt.

Also I understand your point of view about the national perception of large conferences, but I would argue that G5 conferences have no national perception no matter how large they are. G5 schools only get national recognition two ways: by beating a P5 team during the regular season or by playing in a good bowl game. A casual fan doesn’t know the difference between CUSA, the SBC, the MAC or almost any other G5 conference but they’ve heard of individual teams by seeing them play on television.

That brings up my point about regional conferences. Proximity leads to rivalries. Rivalries+proximity lead to added interest which translates into boosted ticket sales, better atmosphere, and better tv marketability. TV marketability means that ESPN or others thinks more people will tune into your game so they’ll give you a time slot so they can sell ad time. TV is how a G5 school starts building national perception. It doesn’t matter if your conference stretches from sea to shining sea, if all the games are half empty and your fans begin to lose interest, it’ll hurt your overall chances of building a national brand.

Take our schedule for example. 9 of our games are either in Statesboro or within a few hours drive of it, that does wonders for season ticket sales, fan bus trips, brand exposure, and keeping Alumni and fans interested throughout the season because they have many opportunities to see the Eagles play. If apart from home games, your fans have to fly or try to stream games to watch y’all play, how do you keep fans interested and build your fan base?
02-26-2018 08:52 PM
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Side Show Joe Offline
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RE: UTSA Students Vote Against Athletic Fee Hike
(02-26-2018 08:52 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 07:23 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  3. Even if 6 of the teams in C-USA East were to leave for the Sun Belt (which they won't), C-USA West would continue on as C-USA. The teams that stay would enjoy more playoff money and share plenty of exit fees. Were it to actually happen, I'd look to add Arkansas State. At that point, I think they would want out of a bloated 16 team Sun Belt.

I just don't see a scenario where jumping to the Sun Belt is a god option for any of the eastern C-USA programs.

Thanks for the response.

In a regional realignment scenario, CUSA and the SBC would merge and split into two 12 team conferences. I know that’s not feasible, but neither is CUSA East attaching themselves to the current Sun Belt.

Also I understand your point of view about the national perception of large conferences, but I would argue that G5 conferences have no national perception no matter how large they are. G5 schools only get national recognition two ways: by beating a P5 team during the regular season or by playing in a good bowl game. A casual fan doesn’t know the difference between CUSA, the SBC, the MAC or almost any other G5 conference but they’ve heard of individual teams by seeing them play on television.

That brings up my point about regional conferences. Proximity leads to rivalries. Rivalries+proximity lead to added interest which translates into boosted ticket sales, better atmosphere, and better tv marketability. TV marketability means that ESPN or others thinks more people will tune into your game so they’ll give you a time slot so they can sell ad time. TV is how a G5 school starts building national perception. It doesn’t matter if your conference stretches from sea to shining sea, if all the games are half empty and your fans begin to lose interest, it’ll hurt your overall chances of building a national brand.

Take our schedule for example. 9 of our games are either in Statesboro or within a few hours drive of it, that does wonders for season ticket sales, fan bus trips, brand exposure, and keeping Alumni and fans interested throughout the season because they have many opportunities to see the Eagles play. If apart from home games, your fans have to fly or try to stream games to watch y’all play, how do you keep fans interested and build your fan base?

Our fans don't have to fly anywhere to watch us play most of our divisional games. Rice, UTSA , LA Tech, and Southern Miss (although a longer drive), provide us with drive-able games against programs our alum and fans are interested in watching us play. Only UTEP and UAB require airfare. In C-USA we only play one cross-divisional away game a season.

North Texas is a large university. We have almost 40,000 students and over 350,000 alumni. Much of that alumni base is located in the major Texas cities. So, we travel well to these games. And our increasing attendance numbers prove we are building our fanbase within the current structure of C-USA.
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2018 09:54 PM by Side Show Joe.)
02-26-2018 09:52 PM
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Post: #98
RE: UTSA Students Vote Against Athletic Fee Hike
I agree with TrueBlue in that G5 conferences have no national presence. No one takes notice unless we upset a big P5 power or are playing in a bowl game. Only our alums are watching our games on Facebook or bein. No casual fans care. In the mean time, travel is expensive and the crossover games are uninteresting.
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2018 10:20 PM by Ourland.)
02-26-2018 10:18 PM
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Side Show Joe Offline
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RE: UTSA Students Vote Against Athletic Fee Hike
(02-26-2018 10:18 PM)Ourland Wrote:  I agree with TrueBlue in that G5 conferences have no national presence. No one takes notice unless we upset a big P5 power or are playing in a bowl game. Only our alums are watching our games on Facebook or bein. No casual fans care. In the mean time, travel is expensive and the crossover games are uninteresting.

What university are you attending or from which did you graduate?
02-26-2018 10:32 PM
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RE: UTSA Students Vote Against Athletic Fee Hike
bad times for UH in the AAC?? I thought Houston had good rivalries going with SMU and Tulsa. And the AAC had games on Facebook??? Wow!!!
02-27-2018 02:40 AM
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