I agree with everyone's comments regarding the game against NIU last night. However, one thing not mentioned is the Rockets continued ability to make plays in crunch time that have led to late game victories against Akron, Kent St and NIU at home and Western Michigan on the road. That is 4 close games that we probably would have lost in years past, and has resulted in Toledo having a 3 game lead in the MAC West and #2 overall seed heading into the last 7 games of the regular season. Sure, we have flaws, especially defensively, but we are finding ways to win close games which usually separates teams in a tightly contested league like the MAC. While everyone talks about our limitations defensively, we need to also recognize that we are very talented and balanced offensively which makes it very hard for our opponents to shut us down for 40 minutes, and most importantly, in crunch time!

Good points. I still have no idea how good this team is or isn't, and sometimes my opinion fluctuates several times in one game. I will admit I was worried last night, though...looked like a different UT team that came out of the locker room at halftime, but thankfully the "better" Rocket team showed up for the final 5 minutes, as you argued.

The team needs a super quick small guard to play defense against the super quick guards in the league (such as those of Western Michigan and Northern Illinois). Luckily we have one--but he seldom leaves the bench. Rose is the only guy we have who can keep up with these type of players. Rose often plays out of control on offense but he could be an asset on defense. Coach K is finally taking advantage of Gordon's skills for a few minutes here and there. He should also see if Rose can be the stopper on defense when no one else has the skillset to do so.

(02-07-2018 09:38 AM)Rocket75 Wrote:  The team needs a super quick small guard to play defense against the super quick guards in the league (such as those of Western Michigan and Northern Illinois). Luckily we have one--but he seldom leaves the bench. Rose is the only guy we have who can keep up with these type of players. Rose often plays out of control on offense but he could be an asset on defense. Coach K is finally taking advantage of Gordon's skills for a few minutes here and there. He should also see if Rose can be the stopper on defense when no one else has the skillset to do so.

Haven’t seen enough of Rose to know but in limited sample he hasn’t looked particularly quick. I’ll admit, he mostly gets garbage minutes and little defense is ever played. I expect we’ll find out next year. Jackson looks quick on O but doesn’t have that other gear that guys like German and Wilder have or at least he’s not showing it on D. Sanford is completely overmatched against those guys.

We are very talented offensively and we are winning close games. I hope they let Rose play. He's as talented as anyone, but, he never sees the floor. We keep picking on Sanford for his defense, but, Knapke gets schooled more than Sanford. German made shot after shot against him last night.

(02-07-2018 10:02 AM)Michigan Rocket Wrote:  We are very talented offensively and we are winning close games. I hope they let Rose play. He's as talented as anyone, but, he never sees the floor. We keep picking on Sanford for his defense, but, Knapke gets schooled more than Sanford. German made shot after shot against him last night.

But Knapke is help defense. He can’t leave his man until it’s clear German beat either Jackson or Sanford. Can hardly blame Knapke for getting caught in the mismatch.

While we are winning close games more than in the past few seasons... They are games where we had large leads and they became close because of large scoring droughts. It's frustrating to watch large first half leads dwindle in as little as 2 minutes. We simply do not call timeouts to end runs or setup plays unless it's in the last seconds of a half.

We also are much better at preventing runs and shooting on the road... Other than the BG or Kent State games, I haven't seen enough to make a wouldbe fan start coming to games regularly. Even our student athlete's left after half on Tuesday (May be a marketing complaint).

It was a good feeling to beat NIU for once at home despite blowing a good lead though and for that

(02-07-2018 10:17 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 10:02 AM)Michigan Rocket Wrote:  We are very talented offensively and we are winning close games. I hope they let Rose play. He's as talented as anyone, but, he never sees the floor. We keep picking on Sanford for his defense, but, Knapke gets schooled more than Sanford. German made shot after shot against him last night.

But Knapke is help defense. He can’t leave his man until it’s clear German beat either Jackson or Sanford. Can hardly blame Knapke for getting caught in the mismatch.

He wasn't beating Jackson or Sanford. I just looked at it again and for the most part I believe my original assessment correct. They were rotated off his defense by NIU picks and didn't rotate back into the key to pick up the drive. You can "blame" Knapke in that most teams would rely on their big to be able to successfully divert or discourage the shot but you can blame coaching in that he had to do it so much. As I posted in the other thread, if he was out front after the pick, his job normally would be to extend the drive to the outside, giving the picked players time to recover. In the cases someone else was out front, his would be to at least get a hand in the way. The team is not doing either. Most of German's drives AND lay-ups were uncontested.

German is good no doubt. Quick and doesn't back down from a big. But UT just barely beat a team that was losing by 16 points on average in recent road games against lesser talent than Toledo. Fairly indicative of a problem IMO.

#3 Purdue won by 2 against Rutgers last weekend and #4 Michigan State won by 3 against Iowa last night. Granted, these games were on the road, but Purdue and MSU are so much better than Rutgers and Iowa and those games should not have been close. #14 Ohio State had a really competitive game last weekend at home against Illinois, who is not very good. The three best teams in the Big Ten had close games against the three worst teams in the Big Ten in the past week.

What is my point, you ask? Even the best teams have tough games against lesser competition. The key is that you still finish with more points than them at the end of the game.

(02-07-2018 12:16 PM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  #3 Purdue won by 2 against Rutgers last weekend and #4 Michigan State won by 3 against Iowa last night. Granted, these games were on the road, but Purdue and MSU are so much better than Rutgers and Iowa and those games should not have been close. #14 Ohio State had a really competitive game last weekend at home against Illinois, who is not very good. The three best teams in the Big Ten had close games against the three worst teams in the Big Ten in the past week.

What is my point, you ask? Even the best teams have tough games against lesser competition. The key is that you still finish with more points than them at the end of the game.

Well no I don't ask. The talent margins are much narrower in the Big10 than in the MAC. It's one thing to lose by an average of 16 points to a team with those athletes and level of coaching, it's another in the MAC. In the MAC, it means you're a really weak team, regardless match-ups. Those Big10 teams are winning OOC against strong teams. That weak Rutgers team beat Seton Hall. They previously lost to Purdue by 30 even though Purdue has nowhere near the recruits or individual talent. They played them the time you're mentioning, 3 days before Purdue's biggest game of the year. I wouldn't even consider the analogy you're pushing.

What NIU did was run coaching circles around us. They got away with the same play, repeatedly and ours didn't even seem to catch on, that is how I viewed the game and again on replay. They may have noticed it, tried to get the players to adjust but the players even then were obviously not coached up before game to make such adjustments. I'd have to look at NIU games against other teams, see if they were doing the same thing to release German to make an opinion on how grievace the over sight but in game, that's what I saw.

Any coach that does not see that repeated straight run after a pick or ratation to a basket as a problem, even after the fact, blaming "it happens" is missing something.

You REALLY think Coach K isn't stressing exactly the point I mentioned, regardless it was one of the quicker players on theopposing team? If he isn't then someone needs to bump that "garbage" thread. I just don't feel that his team is blocking the lane or rotating to cover weakened spots after the pick.

Watch. Several times after the pick you will see Adway's man leave to make the pick and he remains standing on the side of the key instead of at the point of the pick in order to extend the ball handler's (German) approach to the basket. This gave German TWO options. Straight drive to the basket or a pass to a player in on the deal.

Many of us in the stands were wondering why Toledo did not switch to a zone. It is usually difficult to drive in for layups against a zone.

Does Coach K ever teach zone play in practice? It might just get the opponent off balance trying to play against a different defense. Even Bob Nichols would have the players zone now and then. I recall various zones: 3-2, 2-3, 1-3-1, and a box and 1 if there was one guy who was a super scorer that needed to be stopped.

(02-07-2018 03:44 PM)Rocket75 Wrote:  Many of us in the stands were wondering why Toledo did not switch to a zone. It is usually difficult to drive in for layups against a zone.

Does Coach K ever teach zone play in practice? It might just get the opponent off balance trying to play against a different defense. Even Bob Nichols would have the players zone now and then. I recall various zones: 3-2, 2-3, 1-3-1, and a box and 1 if there was one guy who was a super scorer that needed to be stopped.

They did, briefly, and do periodically, it usually only for a possession or two. They went to a one-three-one look at one point but got out of it quickly. Not sure why they don’t use it more.

(02-07-2018 04:27 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 03:44 PM)Rocket75 Wrote:  Many of us in the stands were wondering why Toledo did not switch to a zone. It is usually difficult to drive in for layups against a zone.

Does Coach K ever teach zone play in practice? It might just get the opponent off balance trying to play against a different defense. Even Bob Nichols would have the players zone now and then. I recall various zones: 3-2, 2-3, 1-3-1, and a box and 1 if there was one guy who was a super scorer that needed to be stopped.

They did, briefly, and do periodically, it usually only for a possession or two. They went to a one-three-one look at one point but got out of it quickly. Not sure why they don’t use it more.

I think the team has the length to do it. I recall many (myself included) concerned about lack of height but I'm not sure that adds up. We're tall at the perimeter. Knapke has come along faster than expected. Not sure the effect of running a zone on D has on the offensive patterns. Maybe that's it? Generally longer rebounds.

Not sure a zone would have put players in better position to stop German. He's still quicker than a tall man's synapses. What made him so dangerous wasn't just his ability to find a path to the basket but to find a path through the arms of the bigs to put in the lay-up. We can see a lot of guards pull their punches, afraid the humiliation of the block. German has no inhibitions that I saw.

I still think the challenge to slow a player like that it to extend the pick. Make the player move further around the perimeter before making a move or pass to the middle, to give the defense chance to recover from the pick.

good x and o stuff

They need to address this

Despite scoring 30 points on 29 shots, mostly on drives to the hoop, German only made it to the foul line once (he missed) and only made 2-9 from 3pt land. It almost seems like the Rockets were conceding the drive in favor of guarding the perimeter. The huskies were 4 for 17 on 3s while the Rockets went 11 for 27..

NIU only went 5 for 7 from the line compared to the Rockets 25 for 31. No doubt that was the difference. You would expect that a team that depends on scoring in the lane would go to the line more often than a team that "counts by 3s" I didn't see the game was the discrepancy due to officiating or just smarter play by the Rockets?

(02-07-2018 08:52 PM)Sleepy Wrote:  Despite scoring 30 points on 29 shots, mostly on drives to the hoop, German only made it to the foul line once (he missed) and only made 2-9 from 3pt land. It almost seems like the Rockets were conceding the drive in favor of guarding the perimeter. The huskies were 4 for 17 on 3s while the Rockets went 11 for 27..

NIU only went 5 for 7 from the line compared to the Rockets 25 for 31. No doubt that was the difference. You would expect that a team that depends on scoring in the lane would go to the line more often than a team that "counts by 3s" I didn't see the game was the discrepancy due to officiating or just smarter play by the Rockets?

We’ve seen a lot of guards have career scoring nights against us. Brent Balbinot, the radio guy, was questioning whether it was by design. Let the big gun have his shots and clamp down on everyone else. I don’t know, but we were so far behind German on his layups we COULDN’T foul. I thought a couple more strenuous efforts to block shots, even if they ended in foul, would have helped. Sanford got one in the first half that was a real posterizer.

The fouls were lopsided but they were hammering us pretty good inside. I think they took a page from Ball’s book on offensive rebounding. McCarty got pretty frustrated and added the dumb T to his already Neanderthal play. We are, for better or worse, a finesse team apart from Adway. We don’t muscle guys- if the crew from last night reffed the BSU game the outcome might have been pretty different.

(02-07-2018 03:44 PM)Rocket75 Wrote:  Many of us in the stands were wondering why Toledo did not switch to a zone. It is usually difficult to drive in for layups against a zone.

Does Coach K ever teach zone play in practice? It might just get the opponent off balance trying to play against a different defense. Even Bob Nichols would have the players zone now and then. I recall various zones: 3-2, 2-3, 1-3-1, and a box and 1 if there was one guy who was a super scorer that needed to be stopped.

You're absolutely right on how it should be difficult to drive on a zone defense, and if played correctly the zone collapses to cut off dishes to others down in the lane - and that makes them susceptible to kick-outs to the three point line. That's ok because those passes can also be picked off if the defense understands where to move to in the zone. Always force them to try to pass over the top of the zone.

But, the one time I saw Toledo go to a 1-3-1, German got around the point man with the dribble then drove past the next layer and went in for a lay-up while Knapke tried to adjust to put up some kind of defense under the basket. German scored on a lay-up that started above the top of the key. I cussed for awhile, got up and walked around - and wondered if they practice that defense for more than 10 minutes at a practice during the week.

(02-08-2018 11:00 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 03:44 PM)Rocket75 Wrote:  Many of us in the stands were wondering why Toledo did not switch to a zone. It is usually difficult to drive in for layups against a zone.

Does Coach K ever teach zone play in practice? It might just get the opponent off balance trying to play against a different defense. Even Bob Nichols would have the players zone now and then. I recall various zones: 3-2, 2-3, 1-3-1, and a box and 1 if there was one guy who was a super scorer that needed to be stopped.

You're absolutely right on how it should be difficult to drive on a zone defense, and if played correctly the zone collapses to cut off dishes to others down in the lane - and that makes them susceptible to kick-outs to the three point line. That's ok because those passes can also be picked off if the defense understands where to move to in the zone. Always force them to try to pass over the top of the zone.

But, the one time I saw Toledo go to a 1-3-1, German got around the point man with the dribble then drove past the next layer and went in for a lay-up while Knapke tried to adjust to put up some kind of defense under the basket. German scored on a lay-up that started above the top of the key. I cussed for awhile, got up and walked around - and wondered if they practice that defense for more than 10 minutes at a practice during the week.

K seems to use the zone as a change in look to maybe get a stop and cause a little confusion. German was just having his way Tuesday. Hopefully, we’ll resolve that in De Kalb.