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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Big East basketball
For as much as everyone looks down on Dayton as a duplication of markets I find it to be a potential strength. You have two nearby Catholic schools with solid programs and who put butts in seats. Proximity breeds rivalries and while they may never be as big as UNC-Duke with the proper grooming Dayton-Xavier could take on greater interest for fans. A conference is the sum of its parts and if your conference has good brands and good rivalries people watch and networks write bigger checks.

St Louis is a project that I think the Big East should take it on. The offer shouldn't be without its strings. Their needs to be a clear plan in place for how the Bilikens are going to use Big East revenue to build up their brand and program and become the main basketball attraction in their market.
02-08-2018 09:27 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Big East basketball
(02-08-2018 09:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  For as much as everyone looks down on Dayton as a duplication of markets I find it to be a potential strength. You have two nearby Catholic schools with solid programs and who put butts in seats. Proximity breeds rivalries and while they may never be as big as UNC-Duke with the proper grooming Dayton-Xavier could take on greater interest for fans. A conference is the sum of its parts and if your conference has good brands and good rivalries people watch and networks write bigger checks.

St Louis is a project that I think the Big East should take it on. The offer shouldn't be without its strings. Their needs to be a clear plan in place for how the Bilikens are going to use Big East revenue to build up their brand and program and become the main basketball attraction in their market.

Both Dayton and Saint Louis have their advantageous strengths for membership in the Big East. For student enrollment, Saint Louis would be third overall (16,500) and Dayton would be sixth overall (10,900) in the conference. For endowment, Dayton would be sixth overall ($525 million) and Saint Louis would be second overall ($1.2 billion). Both universities are top-125 nationally in academics for US News and World Reports. Both St. Louis (13th overall) and Dayton (64th overall) bring new and enticing media markets that would enrich a television contract.

However, both men's basketball programs have a combined 16 NCAA Tournament appearances in the past 30 years (Dayton - 9, Saint Louis - 7). Only Dayton has made a Sweet 16 in the past 50 years (2014, 1984, 1974). For a conference that clearly prioritizes men's basketball, and one that values historical postseason programs, it is in this regard where the two programs come up drastically short.

Personally, I think the Big East reorganizing with ten members - and not twelve - was a calculated and strategic move. It allowed the league, especially after years of turmoil and shift, to build and solidify itself with three new members (Butler, Creighton and Xavier). Those new members have become the backbone of the conference, consistently making the NCAA tournament and competing for top-25 rankings - especially important while programs like St. Johns, Georgetown and Marquette rebuild. When it comes time to renegotiate with Fox, and with all of the success the Big East has gone through, I have no doubt that Dayton and Saint Louis will once again be mentioned as possible #11 and #12 members. However, whether they get admitted depends fully on where their men's basketball programs go in these next few years. If they elevate them, capable of consistently being near the top of the A-10, then they instantly become perfect fits. It will be interesting to see how Travis Ford and Anthony Grant do in that timeframe.
02-08-2018 11:16 PM
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Post: #43
RE: Big East basketball
(02-08-2018 08:11 PM)spenser Wrote:  I lived in Norwood(where Xavier is) for half my life, and whole time in Greater Cincy and Xavier has no local support. Beside the current students, they are buried in the Great Cincinnati area. Cincinnati, Kentucky and Ohio State dominate the eyeballs. As for apparel you will see more Dayton, Louisville, and Indiana gear than X, and Northern Kentucky is gaining steam on them.

What is your definition of local support? IIRC, Xavier has sold out (and has had SRO tickets sold) to every home game this season. Last season, they averaged over the building's capacity.

Sure, Xavier will never have more fans than the state schools surrounding it (simply due to enrollment/graduation numbers), but to say it has no local support seems untrue.
02-09-2018 09:09 AM
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Post: #44
RE: Big East basketball
(02-08-2018 11:16 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(02-08-2018 09:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  For as much as everyone looks down on Dayton as a duplication of markets I find it to be a potential strength. You have two nearby Catholic schools with solid programs and who put butts in seats. Proximity breeds rivalries and while they may never be as big as UNC-Duke with the proper grooming Dayton-Xavier could take on greater interest for fans. A conference is the sum of its parts and if your conference has good brands and good rivalries people watch and networks write bigger checks.

St Louis is a project that I think the Big East should take it on. The offer shouldn't be without its strings. Their needs to be a clear plan in place for how the Bilikens are going to use Big East revenue to build up their brand and program and become the main basketball attraction in their market.

Both Dayton and Saint Louis have their advantageous strengths for membership in the Big East. For student enrollment, Saint Louis would be third overall (16,500) and Dayton would be sixth overall (10,900) in the conference. For endowment, Dayton would be sixth overall ($525 million) and Saint Louis would be second overall ($1.2 billion). Both universities are top-125 nationally in academics for US News and World Reports. Both St. Louis (13th overall) and Dayton (64th overall) bring new and enticing media markets that would enrich a television contract.

However, both men's basketball programs have a combined 16 NCAA Tournament appearances in the past 30 years (Dayton - 9, Saint Louis - 7). Only Dayton has made a Sweet 16 in the past 50 years (2014, 1984, 1974). For a conference that clearly prioritizes men's basketball, and one that values historical postseason programs, it is in this regard where the two programs come up drastically short.

Personally, I think the Big East reorganizing with ten members - and not twelve - was a calculated and strategic move. It allowed the league, especially after years of turmoil and shift, to build and solidify itself with three new members (Butler, Creighton and Xavier). Those new members have become the backbone of the conference, consistently making the NCAA tournament and competing for top-25 rankings - especially important while programs like St. Johns, Georgetown and Marquette rebuild. When it comes time to renegotiate with Fox, and with all of the success the Big East has gone through, I have no doubt that Dayton and Saint Louis will once again be mentioned as possible #11 and #12 members. However, whether they get admitted depends fully on where their men's basketball programs go in these next few years. If they elevate them, capable of consistently being near the top of the A-10, then they instantly become perfect fits. It will be interesting to see how Travis Ford and Anthony Grant do in that timeframe.

I think the problem for SLU and Dayton though is if they have the success that would be needed to get into the Big East, odds are really strong that Ford and Grant are plucked away, putting SLU and Dayton back down.
02-09-2018 09:27 AM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Big East basketball
(02-08-2018 01:11 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 07:55 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 12:48 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I don't disagree XU has had a great run the past 20 years. Reading your post, I guess we are looking at this from a different perspective. My contention is that there is no comparison of the PA programs to Ohio's, because Cincinnati has a stronger branding and history vs. Xavier as compared to Temple vs. Villanova. Even if Xavier continues at the level they are currently putting on the court, they will never make UC look like the Temple of Ohio, while they are Villanova (I mean this as no disrespect to Temple).

Well, at this point are we discussing Cincy in relation to X or Temple? If your argument is that it's impossible for X to become the clear top basketball program in that city/area then I disagree - if Mack's a lifer they have all the ingredients necessary to be a premier program. If the argument is that Cincy will always be more relevant in Cincinnati than Temple is in Philly, then I think you're underselling Temple a bit (remember, they were one of those Class A schools in the ESPN contract as well) but it's a whole different discussion that I'm much less opinionated about.

X has a long way to go. Temple doesn't have the following in their city like UC does. A poll from the Cincinnati ESPN radio affiliatei:




None of this refutes this idea that Villanova West should be X's goal.
02-09-2018 10:52 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Big East basketball
i think the difference though between Villanova and Xavier is that there is a relative void competition wise for Villanova that's not there for Xavier. Cincy is better than Temple- and then Xavier has to deal with Ohio St, Kentucky, etc- something that Nova just doesn't have to go up against where they are.
02-09-2018 10:55 AM
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Post: #47
RE: Big East basketball
(02-09-2018 10:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  i think the difference though between Villanova and Xavier is that there is a relative void competition wise for Villanova that's not there for Xavier. Cincy is better than Temple- and then Xavier has to deal with Ohio St, Kentucky, etc- something that Nova just doesn't have to go up against where they are.

So......what, give up and don't try? Go back to the A-10, maybe see if the Horizon League is taking applications? I really don't see how this many people have an issue wth the idea that long-term X would likely look to position themselves similar to Nova.
02-09-2018 11:07 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Big East basketball
(02-09-2018 11:07 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(02-09-2018 10:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  i think the difference though between Villanova and Xavier is that there is a relative void competition wise for Villanova that's not there for Xavier. Cincy is better than Temple- and then Xavier has to deal with Ohio St, Kentucky, etc- something that Nova just doesn't have to go up against where they are.

So......what, give up and don't try? Go back to the A-10, maybe see if the Horizon League is taking applications? I really don't see how this many people have an issue wth the idea that long-term X would likely look to position themselves similar to Nova.

They can try- it's just the dynamic that allows Nova to be so special isn't there for Xavier. Xavier faces a LOT more competition locally than Nova ever does.
02-09-2018 11:22 AM
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Post: #49
RE: Big East basketball
(02-08-2018 11:16 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(02-08-2018 09:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  For as much as everyone looks down on Dayton as a duplication of markets I find it to be a potential strength. You have two nearby Catholic schools with solid programs and who put butts in seats. Proximity breeds rivalries and while they may never be as big as UNC-Duke with the proper grooming Dayton-Xavier could take on greater interest for fans. A conference is the sum of its parts and if your conference has good brands and good rivalries people watch and networks write bigger checks.

St Louis is a project that I think the Big East should take it on. The offer shouldn't be without its strings. Their needs to be a clear plan in place for how the Bilikens are going to use Big East revenue to build up their brand and program and become the main basketball attraction in their market.

Both Dayton and Saint Louis have their advantageous strengths for membership in the Big East. For student enrollment, Saint Louis would be third overall (16,500) and Dayton would be sixth overall (10,900) in the conference. For endowment, Dayton would be sixth overall ($525 million) and Saint Louis would be second overall ($1.2 billion). Both universities are top-125 nationally in academics for US News and World Reports. Both St. Louis (13th overall) and Dayton (64th overall) bring new and enticing media markets that would enrich a television contract.

However, both men's basketball programs have a combined 16 NCAA Tournament appearances in the past 30 years (Dayton - 9, Saint Louis - 7). Only Dayton has made a Sweet 16 in the past 50 years (2014, 1984, 1974). For a conference that clearly prioritizes men's basketball, and one that values historical postseason programs, it is in this regard where the two programs come up drastically short.

Personally, I think the Big East reorganizing with ten members - and not twelve - was a calculated and strategic move. It allowed the league, especially after years of turmoil and shift, to build and solidify itself with three new members (Butler, Creighton and Xavier). Those new members have become the backbone of the conference, consistently making the NCAA tournament and competing for top-25 rankings - especially important while programs like St. Johns, Georgetown and Marquette rebuild. When it comes time to renegotiate with Fox, and with all of the success the Big East has gone through, I have no doubt that Dayton and Saint Louis will once again be mentioned as possible #11 and #12 members. However, whether they get admitted depends fully on where their men's basketball programs go in these next few years. If they elevate them, capable of consistently being near the top of the A-10, then they instantly become perfect fits. It will be interesting to see how Travis Ford and Anthony Grant do in that timeframe.

I can see a SLU as 11 with no 12 next contract negotiation to keep that round robin. I don't think the east/mid-west balance is as important as some make it out to be.
02-09-2018 11:53 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Big East basketball
(02-09-2018 09:27 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(02-08-2018 11:16 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(02-08-2018 09:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  For as much as everyone looks down on Dayton as a duplication of markets I find it to be a potential strength. You have two nearby Catholic schools with solid programs and who put butts in seats. Proximity breeds rivalries and while they may never be as big as UNC-Duke with the proper grooming Dayton-Xavier could take on greater interest for fans. A conference is the sum of its parts and if your conference has good brands and good rivalries people watch and networks write bigger checks.

St Louis is a project that I think the Big East should take it on. The offer shouldn't be without its strings. Their needs to be a clear plan in place for how the Bilikens are going to use Big East revenue to build up their brand and program and become the main basketball attraction in their market.

Both Dayton and Saint Louis have their advantageous strengths for membership in the Big East. For student enrollment, Saint Louis would be third overall (16,500) and Dayton would be sixth overall (10,900) in the conference. For endowment, Dayton would be sixth overall ($525 million) and Saint Louis would be second overall ($1.2 billion). Both universities are top-125 nationally in academics for US News and World Reports. Both St. Louis (13th overall) and Dayton (64th overall) bring new and enticing media markets that would enrich a television contract.

However, both men's basketball programs have a combined 16 NCAA Tournament appearances in the past 30 years (Dayton - 9, Saint Louis - 7). Only Dayton has made a Sweet 16 in the past 50 years (2014, 1984, 1974). For a conference that clearly prioritizes men's basketball, and one that values historical postseason programs, it is in this regard where the two programs come up drastically short.

Personally, I think the Big East reorganizing with ten members - and not twelve - was a calculated and strategic move. It allowed the league, especially after years of turmoil and shift, to build and solidify itself with three new members (Butler, Creighton and Xavier). Those new members have become the backbone of the conference, consistently making the NCAA tournament and competing for top-25 rankings - especially important while programs like St. Johns, Georgetown and Marquette rebuild. When it comes time to renegotiate with Fox, and with all of the success the Big East has gone through, I have no doubt that Dayton and Saint Louis will once again be mentioned as possible #11 and #12 members. However, whether they get admitted depends fully on where their men's basketball programs go in these next few years. If they elevate them, capable of consistently being near the top of the A-10, then they instantly become perfect fits. It will be interesting to see how Travis Ford and Anthony Grant do in that timeframe.

I think the problem for SLU and Dayton though is if they have the success that would be needed to get into the Big East, odds are really strong that Ford and Grant are plucked away, putting SLU and Dayton back down.

Then they can get new coaches to keep the ball moving. Butler does it. VCU does it. Marquette has done it. Xavier has done it. Great programs are defined by not by one coach, but multiple coaches that continually add to it.
02-09-2018 12:17 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Big East basketball
(02-09-2018 12:17 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(02-09-2018 09:27 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(02-08-2018 11:16 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(02-08-2018 09:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  For as much as everyone looks down on Dayton as a duplication of markets I find it to be a potential strength. You have two nearby Catholic schools with solid programs and who put butts in seats. Proximity breeds rivalries and while they may never be as big as UNC-Duke with the proper grooming Dayton-Xavier could take on greater interest for fans. A conference is the sum of its parts and if your conference has good brands and good rivalries people watch and networks write bigger checks.

St Louis is a project that I think the Big East should take it on. The offer shouldn't be without its strings. Their needs to be a clear plan in place for how the Bilikens are going to use Big East revenue to build up their brand and program and become the main basketball attraction in their market.

Both Dayton and Saint Louis have their advantageous strengths for membership in the Big East. For student enrollment, Saint Louis would be third overall (16,500) and Dayton would be sixth overall (10,900) in the conference. For endowment, Dayton would be sixth overall ($525 million) and Saint Louis would be second overall ($1.2 billion). Both universities are top-125 nationally in academics for US News and World Reports. Both St. Louis (13th overall) and Dayton (64th overall) bring new and enticing media markets that would enrich a television contract.

However, both men's basketball programs have a combined 16 NCAA Tournament appearances in the past 30 years (Dayton - 9, Saint Louis - 7). Only Dayton has made a Sweet 16 in the past 50 years (2014, 1984, 1974). For a conference that clearly prioritizes men's basketball, and one that values historical postseason programs, it is in this regard where the two programs come up drastically short.

Personally, I think the Big East reorganizing with ten members - and not twelve - was a calculated and strategic move. It allowed the league, especially after years of turmoil and shift, to build and solidify itself with three new members (Butler, Creighton and Xavier). Those new members have become the backbone of the conference, consistently making the NCAA tournament and competing for top-25 rankings - especially important while programs like St. Johns, Georgetown and Marquette rebuild. When it comes time to renegotiate with Fox, and with all of the success the Big East has gone through, I have no doubt that Dayton and Saint Louis will once again be mentioned as possible #11 and #12 members. However, whether they get admitted depends fully on where their men's basketball programs go in these next few years. If they elevate them, capable of consistently being near the top of the A-10, then they instantly become perfect fits. It will be interesting to see how Travis Ford and Anthony Grant do in that timeframe.

I think the problem for SLU and Dayton though is if they have the success that would be needed to get into the Big East, odds are really strong that Ford and Grant are plucked away, putting SLU and Dayton back down.

Then they can get new coaches to keep the ball moving. Butler does it. VCU does it. Marquette has done it. Xavier has done it. Great programs are defined by not by one coach, but multiple coaches that continually add to it.
Any new hire is a risk. See what's happening at VCU this year as a good example, and what did happen at SLU after Majerus passed away. There's no guarantee in the least.
02-09-2018 12:23 PM
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Post: #52
RE: Big East basketball
(02-09-2018 09:09 AM)bmorex Wrote:  
(02-08-2018 08:11 PM)spenser Wrote:  I lived in Norwood(where Xavier is) for half my life, and whole time in Greater Cincy and Xavier has no local support. Beside the current students, they are buried in the Great Cincinnati area. Cincinnati, Kentucky and Ohio State dominate the eyeballs. As for apparel you will see more Dayton, Louisville, and Indiana gear than X, and Northern Kentucky is gaining steam on them.

What is your definition of local support? IIRC, Xavier has sold out (and has had SRO tickets sold) to every home game this season. Last season, they averaged over the building's capacity.

Sure, Xavier will never have more fans than the state schools surrounding it (simply due to enrollment/graduation numbers), but to say it has no local support seems untrue.

I mean the non-student/t-shirt fans. They have few to none, the rare person you see will usually say they support the other schools more.
02-09-2018 03:36 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Big East basketball
(02-09-2018 11:22 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(02-09-2018 11:07 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(02-09-2018 10:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  i think the difference though between Villanova and Xavier is that there is a relative void competition wise for Villanova that's not there for Xavier. Cincy is better than Temple- and then Xavier has to deal with Ohio St, Kentucky, etc- something that Nova just doesn't have to go up against where they are.

So......what, give up and don't try? Go back to the A-10, maybe see if the Horizon League is taking applications? I really don't see how this many people have an issue wth the idea that long-term X would likely look to position themselves similar to Nova.

They can try- it's just the dynamic that allows Nova to be so special isn't there for Xavier. Xavier faces a LOT more competition locally than Nova ever does.

If Mack gets them to a point where they're regularly ranked and periodically making runs into the second weekend and beyond, I'm not sure there's a meaningful difference. Nova faces a ton more professional sport competition than X does locally.
02-09-2018 08:17 PM
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Post: #54
RE: Big East basketball
(02-06-2018 11:25 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Dayton will always be in consideration for Big East expansion because of their institutional fit, athletic profile and fan base. They have strong attendance every year, regardless of performance. Every school has to be able to provide something to a conference if their top sport(s) is/are down. That can be geographic fit, academics, etc. Dayton checks a lot of boxes for Big East membership. Unfortunately, with regards to their location and lack of historical postseason success, there are a few that aren't.
I call BS on that one. Look at their NIT history, specifically when the NIT counted. They got screwed by Xavier plain and simple. Dayton has a larger fan base and larger ratings in their local market but Xavier has had a great 15 year run. That is it.
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2018 09:50 PM by mlb.)
02-09-2018 09:43 PM
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RE: Big East basketball
There is no reason for the Big East to expand unless TV tells them to for inventory. In that case I can't see any better options than Dayton and St. Louis. And if you base it on fan sport and local corporate support, it is easily Dayton. 13k a game, the arena keeps getting upgraded with new boxes and other expensive seats thanks to corporations wanting in, plus long term history... And a fan base who travels (in the A10 UD far outclassed XU in traveling to Atlantic City and Philly for the tourneys). It isn't close, really. I live in Dayton and work in Cincy... All UD all the time in Dayton during basketball season, hardly any XU stuff in Cincinnati and they are number 5 in the country right now. I'm still a firm believer that in all categories *except* on the court success (big exception) Dayton was a better choice than Xavier last go around. But the Big East got the publicity it needed with XU, so they chose well there.
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2018 09:57 PM by mlb.)
02-09-2018 09:56 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Big East basketball
(02-04-2018 10:46 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Gonzaga could join and put their other sports in the WAC. That would create an eleven team league with 20 conference games, give the BE more exposure in the West and create more later night games.

The Horizon had Notre Dame without mbb for a time. The WAC would possibly go for it if Gonzaga offered a limited mbb package.

That is actually not allowed by the NCAA rule book. Basketball has to go in your primary conference. So if Gonzaga's Basketball went Big East, so all their Olympic sports.

And no, Gonzaga would never join the WAC. Even if what you suggested were legal, they'd leave their other sports in the WCC with similar faith based schools and similar very high academic standards for students (much higher than any WAC school save Seattle)
02-09-2018 10:21 PM
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Post: #57
RE: Big East basketball
(02-09-2018 09:56 PM)mlb Wrote:  There is no reason for the Big East to expand unless TV tells them to for inventory. In that case I can't see any better options than Dayton and St. Louis. And if you base it on fan sport and local corporate support, it is easily Dayton. 13k a game, the arena keeps getting upgraded with new boxes and other expensive seats thanks to corporations wanting in, plus long term history... And a fan base who travels (in the A10 UD far outclassed XU in traveling to Atlantic City and Philly for the tourneys). It isn't close, really. I live in Dayton and work in Cincy... All UD all the time in Dayton during basketball season, hardly any XU stuff in Cincinnati and they are number 5 in the country right now. I'm still a firm believer that in all categories *except* on the court success (big exception) Dayton was a better choice than Xavier last go around. But the Big East got the publicity it needed with XU, so they chose well there.

I'm pretty sure the Big East is happy with their choice between the two. Cincy fans seem to always want to downplay their crosstown rival.
02-10-2018 10:41 AM
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Post: #58
RE: Big East basketball
(02-10-2018 10:41 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(02-09-2018 09:56 PM)mlb Wrote:  There is no reason for the Big East to expand unless TV tells them to for inventory. In that case I can't see any better options than Dayton and St. Louis. And if you base it on fan sport and local corporate support, it is easily Dayton. 13k a game, the arena keeps getting upgraded with new boxes and other expensive seats thanks to corporations wanting in, plus long term history... And a fan base who travels (in the A10 UD far outclassed XU in traveling to Atlantic City and Philly for the tourneys). It isn't close, really. I live in Dayton and work in Cincy... All UD all the time in Dayton during basketball season, hardly any XU stuff in Cincinnati and they are number 5 in the country right now. I'm still a firm believer that in all categories *except* on the court success (big exception) Dayton was a better choice than Xavier last go around. But the Big East got the publicity it needed with XU, so they chose well there.

I'm pretty sure the Big East is happy with their choice between the two. Cincy fans seem to always want to downplay their crosstown rival.

Xavier has been a perfect addition to the Big East. Couldn't be happier with them. 07-coffee3
02-10-2018 01:32 PM
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Post: #59
RE: Big East basketball
(02-09-2018 11:22 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(02-09-2018 11:07 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(02-09-2018 10:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  i think the difference though between Villanova and Xavier is that there is a relative void competition wise for Villanova that's not there for Xavier. Cincy is better than Temple- and then Xavier has to deal with Ohio St, Kentucky, etc- something that Nova just doesn't have to go up against where they are.

So......what, give up and don't try? Go back to the A-10, maybe see if the Horizon League is taking applications? I really don't see how this many people have an issue wth the idea that long-term X would likely look to position themselves similar to Nova.

They can try- it's just the dynamic that allows Nova to be so special isn't there for Xavier. Xavier faces a LOT more competition locally than Nova ever does.

Xavier's competition has a similar mindset. they want to be successful in BB (OSU, Dayton, Cincy Kentucky)
Other than Temple, have any of Villanovas "competitors" shown a deep commitment to BB? (PSU, Rutgers, St Joes, LaSalle, Delaware)
02-10-2018 01:56 PM
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RE: Big East basketball
(02-10-2018 01:32 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-10-2018 10:41 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(02-09-2018 09:56 PM)mlb Wrote:  There is no reason for the Big East to expand unless TV tells them to for inventory. In that case I can't see any better options than Dayton and St. Louis. And if you base it on fan sport and local corporate support, it is easily Dayton. 13k a game, the arena keeps getting upgraded with new boxes and other expensive seats thanks to corporations wanting in, plus long term history... And a fan base who travels (in the A10 UD far outclassed XU in traveling to Atlantic City and Philly for the tourneys). It isn't close, really. I live in Dayton and work in Cincy... All UD all the time in Dayton during basketball season, hardly any XU stuff in Cincinnati and they are number 5 in the country right now. I'm still a firm believer that in all categories *except* on the court success (big exception) Dayton was a better choice than Xavier last go around. But the Big East got the publicity it needed with XU, so they chose well there.

I'm pretty sure the Big East is happy with their choice between the two. Cincy fans seem to always want to downplay their crosstown rival.

Xavier has been a perfect addition to the Big East. Couldn't be happier with them. 07-coffee3
I don't disagree with either of you. I just think if you wanted to go with the bigger fan base that will be there no matter what (including eyeballs watching in TV), even during down times, Dayton is the easy choice. Market size and recent success is Xavier. Both count, just depends on which way you go.

On a side note, XU has lost a lot of their top faculty in recent years because the school is having cash flow issues. Where did those faculty go? Dayton. Dayton has more money, more deep pocketed alumni, and a larger fan base. At some point that will come into play... But Xavier has had a phenomenal run for the last 30 years.
02-10-2018 07:29 PM
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