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Interesting Info on Southwest Conference
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templefootballfan Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Interesting Info on Southwest Conference
then why did the airport 5 split from the WAC at cost of million dollars?
02-07-2018 04:27 AM
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solohawks Online
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Post: #42
RE: Interesting Info on Southwest Conference
I think its fair to say the WAC 16 failed because they couldn't get the divisions worked out and the TV money was not up to par to make the sacrifice worthwhile.

I think it could have worked if that divisional structure had been set up better.
02-07-2018 08:01 AM
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Post: #43
RE: Interesting Info on Southwest Conference
(02-07-2018 04:27 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  then why did the airport 5 split from the WAC at cost of million dollars?

Because the original WAC Mountain time zone schools wanted to play each other and didn't care as much about playinging anyone else. The WAC 16 would have lasted a little longer had the move to permanent divisions not have been decided on at the 1998 WAC Spring meetings. Air Force went nuts when they found out they'd be in a division without Wyoming and Colorado St. That right there initiated the entire collapse of the The WAC 16 experiment of the late 90's.
02-07-2018 10:04 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Interesting Info on Southwest Conference
The WAC went way overboard inviting 6 schools; they should have just invited UNLV and SJSU to get their desired CCG. They could have implemented a number of different zipper divisions with permanent rivals.
02-07-2018 02:23 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Interesting Info on Southwest Conference
(02-07-2018 10:04 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 04:27 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  then why did the airport 5 split from the WAC at cost of million dollars?

Because the original WAC Mountain time zone schools wanted to play each other and didn't care as much about playinging anyone else. The WAC 16 would have lasted a little longer had the move to permanent divisions not have been decided on at the 1998 WAC Spring meetings. Air Force went nuts when they found out they'd be in a division without Wyoming and Colorado St. That right there initiated the entire collapse of the The WAC 16 experiment of the late 90's.

Ive alway felt that the 16-team WAC would have been just fine had they gone with traditional east-west divisions of 8 each that kept BYU and the front range schools together. When Houston said no, the pieces were actually set up perfect to create an 8 team west with the AF, Wyoming, NM, BYU, Colorado St, SMU, TCU, and Rice. Rather than Tulsa, the 16th school should have been from the west to make the new conference balance.
02-07-2018 02:46 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Interesting Info on Southwest Conference
(02-07-2018 02:46 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 10:04 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 04:27 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  then why did the airport 5 split from the WAC at cost of million dollars?

Because the original WAC Mountain time zone schools wanted to play each other and didn't care as much about playinging anyone else. The WAC 16 would have lasted a little longer had the move to permanent divisions not have been decided on at the 1998 WAC Spring meetings. Air Force went nuts when they found out they'd be in a division without Wyoming and Colorado St. That right there initiated the entire collapse of the The WAC 16 experiment of the late 90's.

Ive alway felt that the 16-team WAC would have been just fine had they gone with traditional east-west divisions of 8 each that kept BYU and the front range schools together. When Houston said no, the pieces were actually set up perfect to create an 8 team west with the AF, Wyoming, NM, BYU, Colorado St, SMU, TCU, and Rice. Rather than Tulsa, the 16th school should have been from the west to make the new conference balance.

What about UTEP and Utah?
02-07-2018 03:57 PM
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Post: #47
RE: Interesting Info on Southwest Conference
The solution would be to send UTEP and New Mexico to the west. UNM would be separated from some of its rivals but, well, we don't all win at life, do we?
02-07-2018 04:15 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Interesting Info on Southwest Conference
(02-07-2018 04:15 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  The solution would be to send UTEP and New Mexico to the west. UNM would be separated from some of its rivals but, well, we don't all win at life, do we?

The right way is to do what the SEC did when they added Texas A&M and Missouri. They didn't give the newbies a vote, they told Missouri, the SEC East is your division, take it or leave it. The wrong way is to give a veto to schools that have been in the conference for 15 seconds.

Even if the WAC added 6 new schools, which they shouldn't have done, the 10 pre-expansion members should have implemented a football division plan before officially making offers. If they strongly disagreed amongst themselves on how to divide 16 teams into divisions, then they would have known enough to not add 6 new members.
02-07-2018 05:00 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Interesting Info on Southwest Conference
(02-07-2018 04:15 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  The solution would be to send UTEP and New Mexico to the west. UNM would be separated from some of its rivals but, well, we don't all win at life, do we?

You only need one or the other, not both. In any case, either of those schools were willing to be in the western division so that Air Force could be in the eastern division. But by then, I guess it didn't matter.
02-07-2018 06:09 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Interesting Info on Southwest Conference
(02-06-2018 11:02 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-06-2018 10:37 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think the schools that merged to form C-USA probably made the right call by not including Tulsa, SMU, TCU, and Rice in 1995. There mission was primarily basketball and a life support football conference was a bi-product that came by necessity. The WAC 16 looked like the better football league for the SWC schools at the time anyway.

When the WAC 16 broke up the need for a football focus was far more evident. That's how TCU landed in C-USA for a hot minute on their road to yet a better football conference in the MWC.

By the time Rice, Tulsa, and SMU joined C-USA in 2005 football was the undisputed king, hence C-USA's abandonment of the hybrid model.

CUSA didn’t not include Rice, SMU, Tulsa and TCU at all. Those 4 jumped at the chance to join the WAC. CUSA didn’t have any say in it at all.

But as the first posts on this thread reveals, the SWC schools were looking at rebuilding and we're talking to some of the schools that went on to form C-USA. They could have just as easily joined forces and formed a 16 team basketball conference with 10 football schools:

Cincy
Louisville
Memphis
Tulane
USM
Houston
Rice
SMU
TCU
Tulsa

DePaul
Marquette
St Louis
Charlotte
UAB
USF
02-07-2018 06:32 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Interesting Info on Southwest Conference
When it came down to it AFA wanted annual games with the 4 schools they cared the most about:

Wyoming
Colorado St
Utah
BYU

there was no way to split the WAC 16 to make that happen. Not even swapping Tulsa out for Nevada.

That's why we had the Airport meeting.
02-07-2018 06:37 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Interesting Info on Southwest Conference
(02-07-2018 06:09 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 04:15 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  The solution would be to send UTEP and New Mexico to the west. UNM would be separated from some of its rivals but, well, we don't all win at life, do we?

You only need one or the other, not both. In any case, either of those schools were willing to be in the western division so that Air Force could be in the eastern division. But by then, I guess it didn't matter.

You are right. New Mexico offered and it would of made sense as their historic rivals were BYU, Utah, Hawaii and SDSU and even a non long WAC history with UNLV. UTEP the same.
I think the WAC would still be around today if they stopped at 4, not 6. The SWC 3 and UNLV.
02-07-2018 07:10 PM
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Post: #53
RE: Interesting Info on Southwest Conference
(02-07-2018 05:00 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 04:15 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  The solution would be to send UTEP and New Mexico to the west. UNM would be separated from some of its rivals but, well, we don't all win at life, do we?

The right way is to do what the SEC did when they added Texas A&M and Missouri. They didn't give the newbies a vote, they told Missouri, the SEC East is your division, take it or leave it. The wrong way is to give a veto to schools that have been in the conference for 15 seconds.

Even if the WAC added 6 new schools, which they shouldn't have done, the 10 pre-expansion members should have implemented a football division plan before officially making offers. If they strongly disagreed amongst themselves on how to divide 16 teams into divisions, then they would have known enough to not add 6 new members.

I give you an inch and you take a mile, LOL.

Yes, well I was just giving a solution to his minor problem. Politics will always enter the fray though, won't it?
02-07-2018 07:43 PM
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Post: #54
RE: Interesting Info on Southwest Conference
(02-07-2018 06:09 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 04:15 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  The solution would be to send UTEP and New Mexico to the west. UNM would be separated from some of its rivals but, well, we don't all win at life, do we?

You only need one or the other, not both. In any case, either of those schools were willing to be in the western division so that Air Force could be in the eastern division. But by then, I guess it didn't matter.

Utah needs to be grouped with its rivals remember?
02-07-2018 07:44 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Interesting Info on Southwest Conference
(02-07-2018 06:37 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  When it came down to it AFA wanted annual games with the 4 schools they cared the most about:

Wyoming
Colorado St
Utah
BYU

there was no way to split the WAC 16 to make that happen. Not even swapping Tulsa out for Nevada.

That's why we had the Airport meeting.

(02-07-2018 07:44 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 06:09 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 04:15 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  The solution would be to send UTEP and New Mexico to the west. UNM would be separated from some of its rivals but, well, we don't all win at life, do we?

You only need one or the other, not both. In any case, either of those schools were willing to be in the western division so that Air Force could be in the eastern division. But by then, I guess it didn't matter.

Utah needs to be grouped with its rivals remember?

OK, so if the WAC had opted for a more western add like Nevada over a more eastern one like Tulsa, they could have indeed had two permanent divisions that would make almost everyone happy:

Mountain: Air Force, BYU, CSU, Rice, SMU, TCU, Utah, Wyoming
Pacific: Fresno, Hawaii, Nevada, SDSU, SJSU, UMN, UNLV, UTEP
02-07-2018 10:13 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Interesting Info on Southwest Conference
(02-07-2018 06:32 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(02-06-2018 11:02 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-06-2018 10:37 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think the schools that merged to form C-USA probably made the right call by not including Tulsa, SMU, TCU, and Rice in 1995. There mission was primarily basketball and a life support football conference was a bi-product that came by necessity. The WAC 16 looked like the better football league for the SWC schools at the time anyway.

When the WAC 16 broke up the need for a football focus was far more evident. That's how TCU landed in C-USA for a hot minute on their road to yet a better football conference in the MWC.

By the time Rice, Tulsa, and SMU joined C-USA in 2005 football was the undisputed king, hence C-USA's abandonment of the hybrid model.

CUSA didn’t not include Rice, SMU, Tulsa and TCU at all. Those 4 jumped at the chance to join the WAC. CUSA didn’t have any say in it at all.

But as the first posts on this thread reveals, the SWC schools were looking at rebuilding and we're talking to some of the schools that went on to form C-USA. They could have just as easily joined forces and formed a 16 team basketball conference with 10 football schools:

Cincy
Louisville
Memphis
Tulane
USM
Houston
Rice
SMU
TCU
Tulsa

DePaul
Marquette
St Louis
Charlotte
UAB
USF

Nice setup. Eventually UAB and USF add football and you get a CCG and two divisions by the early '00s:

East: Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis, UAB, USF, USM
West: Houston, Rice, SMU, TCU, Tulane, Tulsa
Non-FB: Charlotte, DePaul, Marquette, St. Louis
02-07-2018 10:43 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Interesting Info on Southwest Conference
So I looked up which teams kept playing each other after the SWC departures and I found:

Arkansas played SMU every year in the 90’s with some games at Little Rock.

Texas and Texas A&M pretty much just kept Rice on the schedule here and there.

Baylor played the others the most.

Texas Tech had a few series with the others.

I read one article where I believe it was the A&M AD who said they’d never play the Dallas schools again. What’s the deal with Texas and Texas A&M swearing off SMU and TCU? In the immortal words of T Swift “baby we got bad blood.”
02-08-2018 03:06 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Interesting Info on Southwest Conference
(02-08-2018 03:06 PM)esayem Wrote:  So I looked up which teams kept playing each other after the SWC departures and I found:

Arkansas played SMU every year in the 90’s with some games at Little Rock.

They also played one in Shreveport. A personal favorite because Danny Ford's Arkansas team ran a play from the three and was stunned when the ref walked away from the play signaling no good.

They had scored a TD on the prior play and missed the signal. They thought they had first goal.

Danny didn't work out to well at Arkansas. 07-coffee3
02-08-2018 03:48 PM
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Big Frog II Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Interesting Info on Southwest Conference
(02-08-2018 03:06 PM)esayem Wrote:  So I looked up which teams kept playing each other after the SWC departures and I found:

Arkansas played SMU every year in the 90’s with some games at Little Rock.

Texas and Texas A&M pretty much just kept Rice on the schedule here and there.

Baylor played the others the most.

Texas Tech had a few series with the others.

I read one article where I believe it was the A&M AD who said they’d never play the Dallas schools again. What’s the deal with Texas and Texas A&M swearing off SMU and TCU? In the immortal words of T Swift “baby we got bad blood.”
We play Texas every year in everything. We play A&M in baseball every year in the playoffs and eliminate them each time.
02-08-2018 04:46 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #60
RE: Interesting Info on Southwest Conference
(02-08-2018 03:06 PM)esayem Wrote:  So I looked up which teams kept playing each other after the SWC departures and I found:

Arkansas played SMU every year in the 90’s with some games at Little Rock.

Texas and Texas A&M pretty much just kept Rice on the schedule here and there.

Baylor played the others the most.

Texas Tech had a few series with the others.

I read one article where I believe it was the A&M AD who said they’d never play the Dallas schools again. What’s the deal with Texas and Texas A&M swearing off SMU and TCU? In the immortal words of T Swift “baby we got bad blood.”

A&M hasnt played Houston since the end of the SWC. I think that could be a fun game for both and I think the local Ag fans would love it. Play the Houston game in NRG. Lots of Aggies in Houston that dont have season tickets and would be up for a one time special game in air conditioned NRG. But the game doesnt happen and its entirely because the Ag's have zero interest in the concept.
02-08-2018 07:18 PM
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