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Another piece that isn't being talked about much is in the unfortunate case where the Redlegs aren't contending for the playoffs but Puig and/or Kemp are pulling solid numbers, we can flip them and get a prospect or two back that we lost in the trade.

Also if they don't resign with the Reds in the offseason (assuming we give them a qualifying offer), we'd also get a draft pick compensation for them.

Safe to say both Reds fans and Dodgers fans feel like they won the trade and those are the best types of deals.

(12-26-2018 03:25 PM)dubcat14 Wrote:  Another piece that isn't being talked about much is in the unfortunate case where the Redlegs aren't contending for the playoffs but Puig and/or Kemp are pulling solid numbers, we can flip them and get a prospect or two back that we lost in the trade.

Also if they don't resign with the Reds in the offseason (assuming we give them a qualifying offer), we'd also get a draft pick compensation for them.

Safe to say both Reds fans and Dodgers fans feel like they won the trade and those are the best types of deals.

I'm not so sure Dodgers fans think they won the trade, but I could be wrong. Also don't forget about Alex Wood. I'm at least as excited about adding him as I am adding Puig (and definitely more than Kemp). If he doesn't sign an LTC with us, he'd potentially be the most attractive of the 3 to deal (obviously hugely depending upon actual performances) in the unfortunate event we are midseason sellers this year.

It's way too early to make assumptions about qualifying offers (and thus bonus draft picks), but I"d agree that I could see Puig and maybe Wood being in that boat. I'm not so sure about Kemp though as he could be a candidate to take the offer.

Lastly, Kyle Farmer is the most overlooked of all and that's understandable, but he's intriguing and could soften the blow as a backup or maybe part time catcher if we deal Tucker B. Here's an interesting piece from a Dodgers' site just before the trade. The responses are interesting as well:

Kyle Farmer – Hidden in plain sight

(12-26-2018 03:25 PM)dubcat14 Wrote:  Another piece that isn't being talked about much is in the unfortunate case where the Redlegs aren't contending for the playoffs but Puig and/or Kemp are pulling solid numbers, we can flip them and get a prospect or two back that we lost in the trade.

Also if they don't resign with the Reds in the offseason (assuming we give them a qualifying offer), we'd also get a draft pick compensation for them.

Safe to say both Reds fans and Dodgers fans feel like they won the trade and those are the best types of deals.

Yep. I look at the flexibility the trade gave us for all of the reasons you mention. However, I'm still most tickled that we got a starter (Wood) to replace the $23 million blown arm Bailey who was not going to be resigned after next season anyway. It takes two to tango and the Dodgers and Reds got what they wanted out of the trade.

Still think we need a CF. Would love to see the Reds swing a deal to get Happ from the Cubs.

(12-26-2018 06:47 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(12-26-2018 03:25 PM)dubcat14 Wrote:  Another piece that isn't being talked about much is in the unfortunate case where the Redlegs aren't contending for the playoffs but Puig and/or Kemp are pulling solid numbers, we can flip them and get a prospect or two back that we lost in the trade.

Also if they don't resign with the Reds in the offseason (assuming we give them a qualifying offer), we'd also get a draft pick compensation for them.

Safe to say both Reds fans and Dodgers fans feel like they won the trade and those are the best types of deals.

I'm not so sure Dodgers fans think they won the trade, but I could be wrong. Also don't forget about Alex Wood. I'm at least as excited about adding him as I am adding Puig (and definitely more than Kemp). If he doesn't sign an LTC with us, he'd potentially be the most attractive of the 3 to deal (obviously hugely depending upon actual performances) in the unfortunate event we are midseason sellers this year.

It's way too early to make assumptions about qualifying offers (and thus bonus draft picks), but I"d agree that I could see Puig and maybe Wood being in that boat. I'm not so sure about Kemp though as he could be a candidate to take the offer.

Lastly, Kyle Farmer is the most overlooked of all and that's understandable, but he's intriguing and could soften the blow as a backup or maybe part time catcher if we deal Tucker B. Here's an interesting piece from a Dodgers' site just before the trade. The responses are interesting as well:

Kyle Farmer – Hidden in plain sight

If the Dodgers are the landing spot for Harper, Machado, or Bauer/Kluber, their fans maybe wouldn't say they won the trade, but I think the majority would be happy with the outcome. They'd be fine sacrificing Puig/Wood and getting Kemp's contract off the books for a one or 2 of the four players above.

Another move to improve the starting staff rumored...

Reds On The Move Again?

For one year of a ham and egger like Gray, I'd send them a bucket of baseballs and a lottery ticket, and consider it even for the way they low balled us on Chapman.

(01-18-2019 06:17 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Another move to improve the starting staff rumored...

Reds On The Move Again?

That's a ridiculous ask for one year of a back-end starter. I think the Yankees are so used to playing with Monopoly money in free agency that their pomposity carries over to trade offers.

(01-18-2019 08:05 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  For one year of a ham and egger like Gray, I'd send them a bucket of baseballs and a lottery ticket, and consider it even for the way they low balled us on Chapman.

Looking at his overall conventional stats from last year, I get why many are unimpressed. But Gray's peripherals weren't that bad and he was terrific in games away from Yankee stadium (hitters went .225/.295/.320 on the road which is worse than Billy Hamiton hit last year: .236/.299/.327). He wouldn't be the first guy who just wasn't a fit in the Big Apple. And when you factor in the frequently improved numbers we see from SPs going from the AL to the NL along with his very successful history with our new pitching coach, he comes a VERY intriguing target for the Reds in particular.

In terms of current performance, he's obviously not at the level of a Kluber and he's probably likelier to be a dud than a guy like Dallas Keuchel would be. But for the likely cost (in talent and/or money) and thus upside, he's easily the best target of the 3 imo. I wouldn't want to overpay for him, but if I could get him for a guy like Mella I"d jump on it. I guess I'd probably even go so far as to deal Shedd for him instead if I absolutely had to. But I don't think I"d deal Tyler and I certainly wouldn't give them both and absolutely no way I'd also throw in a prime draft pick with both. If the Yankees are getting that much better offers or are now (foolishly) thinking of keeping him, I'd just wait a year and see if maybe Gray would be a better option next year to come here as a free agent.

Saw that the Sonny Gray move is bssically a done deal for Shed Grey and a draft pick. Sounds like the Reds sre all in for 2019.

I'm a Shed Long fan, but I'm pretty happy with this deal as long as he's the only thing we're giving up of significant value. Between Scooter, Senzel and India we should be fine at 2B for potentially a very long time plus there's typically been a bit of a glut of 2B on the market if worst comes to worst.

Adding Sonny, Roarke and Wood without breaking the bank or dealing our jewel prospects is a huge win imo. I wouldn't be surprised if Gray turns it up for us and becomes the best of the three. The big downside is the lack of control we have contractually with all of them after this year, but I get a feeling that Gray, in particular, might be open to an extension especially if both he and the team get off to a good start.

We'll have to see what the Reds say if and when this deal gets finalized, but I"m hoping/expecting they aren't done yet and still have some payroll room left for a legit CF (AJ Pollock?) or trading for a stud like Realmuto or heck more pitching as it seems like you can never have enough.

(01-19-2019 08:40 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

I'm a Shed Long fan, but I'm pretty happy with this deal as long as he's the only thing we're giving up of significant value. Between Scooter, Senzel and India we should be fine at 2B for potentially a very long time plus there's typically been a bit of a glut of 2B on the market if worst comes to worst.

Adding Sonny, Roarke and Wood without breaking the bank or dealing our jewel prospects is a huge win imo. I wouldn't be surprised if Gray turns it up for us and becomes the best of the three. The big downside is the lack of control we have contractually with all of them after this year, but I get a feeling that Gray, in particular, might be open to an extension especially if both he and the team get off to a good start.

We'll have to see what the Reds say if and when this deal gets finalized, but I"m hoping/expecting they aren't done yet and still have some payroll room left for a legit CF (AJ Pollock?) or trading for a stud like Realmuto or heck more pitching as it seems like you can never have enough.

They still need to find a top of the rotation guy for any of this to really work.

(01-19-2019 09:10 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-19-2019 08:40 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

I'm a Shed Long fan, but I'm pretty happy with this deal as long as he's the only thing we're giving up of significant value. Between Scooter, Senzel and India we should be fine at 2B for potentially a very long time plus there's typically been a bit of a glut of 2B on the market if worst comes to worst.

Adding Sonny, Roarke and Wood without breaking the bank or dealing our jewel prospects is a huge win imo. I wouldn't be surprised if Gray turns it up for us and becomes the best of the three. The big downside is the lack of control we have contractually with all of them after this year, but I get a feeling that Gray, in particular, might be open to an extension especially if both he and the team get off to a good start.

We'll have to see what the Reds say if and when this deal gets finalized, but I"m hoping/expecting they aren't done yet and still have some payroll room left for a legit CF (AJ Pollock?) or trading for a stud like Realmuto or heck more pitching as it seems like you can never have enough.

They still need to find a top of the rotation guy for any of this to really work.

That won't happen with our payroll limitations. The Reds had the second to worst staff ERA in the National League this past season IIRC. To me, they're putting together a solid, complimentary, upgraded staff as a whole. I think Castillo has the stuff to be the top guy but he has to work on consistency and command. Would be nice if this coming season is the year he puts it all together...

(01-19-2019 09:28 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(01-19-2019 09:10 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-19-2019 08:40 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

I'm a Shed Long fan, but I'm pretty happy with this deal as long as he's the only thing we're giving up of significant value. Between Scooter, Senzel and India we should be fine at 2B for potentially a very long time plus there's typically been a bit of a glut of 2B on the market if worst comes to worst.

Adding Sonny, Roarke and Wood without breaking the bank or dealing our jewel prospects is a huge win imo. I wouldn't be surprised if Gray turns it up for us and becomes the best of the three. The big downside is the lack of control we have contractually with all of them after this year, but I get a feeling that Gray, in particular, might be open to an extension especially if both he and the team get off to a good start.

We'll have to see what the Reds say if and when this deal gets finalized, but I"m hoping/expecting they aren't done yet and still have some payroll room left for a legit CF (AJ Pollock?) or trading for a stud like Realmuto or heck more pitching as it seems like you can never have enough.

They still need to find a top of the rotation guy for any of this to really work.

That won't happen with our payroll limitations. The Reds had the second to worst staff ERA in the National League this past season IIRC. To me, they're putting together a solid, complimentary, upgraded staff as a whole. I think Castillo has the stuff to be the top guy but he has to work on consistency and command. Would be nice if this coming season is the year he puts it all together...

A healthy Dischafano and Mahle, and throw in Castillo and Gray, it makes for a pretty decent 2-5. They just need that ace. Add Corey Kubler and we are looking pretty damn good.

(01-19-2019 10:14 PM)jarr Wrote:  

(01-19-2019 09:28 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(01-19-2019 09:10 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  They still need to find a top of the rotation guy for any of this to really work.

That won't happen with our payroll limitations. The Reds had the second to worst staff ERA in the National League this past season IIRC. To me, they're putting together a solid, complimentary, upgraded staff as a whole. I think Castillo has the stuff to be the top guy but he has to work on consistency and command. Would be nice if this coming season is the year he puts it all together...

A healthy Dischafano and Mahle, and throw in Castillo and Gray, it makes for a pretty decent 2-5. They just need that ace. Add Corey Kubler and we are looking pretty damn good.

I guess it comes down to your definition of an "ace" and what the asking price is. After the moves they've made (Wood, Roark, and Gray), would adding Kluber at this point make financial sense ($17 million due 2019)? I'd hate to trade away more of our top prospects or a guy coming into his own like Winker. I still think Castillo at age 26 has tremendous upside as "the guy" and now you surround him with solid veterans. Again, I'm ecstatic at the moves the Reds have made to this point but they need to be careful it doesn't become diminishing returns after this year.

The Gray deal looks like it's dependent upon the Reds signing him to an extension. If it's for Shed Long, a supplemental pick, and Derek Johnson can help him, could be a good move for the Reds. If Derek can't help, we'll have a cheaper Homer Bailey on our hands.

(01-20-2019 12:41 PM)crex043 Wrote:  The Gray deal looks like it's dependent upon the Reds signing him to an extension. If it's for Shed Long, a supplemental pick, and Derek Johnson can help him, could be a good move for the Reds. If Derek can't help, we'll have a cheaper Homer Bailey on our hands.

(01-19-2019 11:11 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(01-19-2019 10:14 PM)jarr Wrote:  

(01-19-2019 09:28 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(01-19-2019 09:10 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  They still need to find a top of the rotation guy for any of this to really work.

That won't happen with our payroll limitations. The Reds had the second to worst staff ERA in the National League this past season IIRC. To me, they're putting together a solid, complimentary, upgraded staff as a whole. I think Castillo has the stuff to be the top guy but he has to work on consistency and command. Would be nice if this coming season is the year he puts it all together...

A healthy Dischafano and Mahle, and throw in Castillo and Gray, it makes for a pretty decent 2-5. They just need that ace. Add Corey Kubler and we are looking pretty damn good.

I guess it comes down to your definition of an "ace" and what the asking price is. After the moves they've made (Wood, Roark, and Gray), would adding Kluber at this point make financial sense ($17 million due 2019)? I'd hate to trade away more of our top prospects or a guy coming into his own like Winker. I still think Castillo at age 26 has tremendous upside as "the guy" and now you surround him with solid veterans. Again, I'm ecstatic at the moves the Reds have made to this point but they need to be careful it doesn't become diminishing returns after this year.

Why not include Puig in a trade for Kluber? Then we wouldn't have to give up as many prospects...

(01-20-2019 06:54 PM)converrl Wrote:  

(01-19-2019 11:11 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(01-19-2019 10:14 PM)jarr Wrote:  

(01-19-2019 09:28 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(01-19-2019 09:10 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  They still need to find a top of the rotation guy for any of this to really work.

That won't happen with our payroll limitations. The Reds had the second to worst staff ERA in the National League this past season IIRC. To me, they're putting together a solid, complimentary, upgraded staff as a whole. I think Castillo has the stuff to be the top guy but he has to work on consistency and command. Would be nice if this coming season is the year he puts it all together...

A healthy Dischafano and Mahle, and throw in Castillo and Gray, it makes for a pretty decent 2-5. They just need that ace. Add Corey Kubler and we are looking pretty damn good.

I guess it comes down to your definition of an "ace" and what the asking price is. After the moves they've made (Wood, Roark, and Gray), would adding Kluber at this point make financial sense ($17 million due 2019)? I'd hate to trade away more of our top prospects or a guy coming into his own like Winker. I still think Castillo at age 26 has tremendous upside as "the guy" and now you surround him with solid veterans. Again, I'm ecstatic at the moves the Reds have made to this point but they need to be careful it doesn't become diminishing returns after this year.

Why not include Puig in a trade for Kluber? Then we wouldn't have to give up as many prospects...

Puig is making about $10 million in 2019. So, that would offset Kluber's $17 million some but you're still adding $7 million to payroll. Puig is potentially a one year rental and I believe Kluber's contract is for three more years. Do the Indians need an outfielder and would they trade for a one year rental?

(01-20-2019 07:52 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(01-20-2019 06:54 PM)converrl Wrote:  

(01-19-2019 11:11 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(01-19-2019 10:14 PM)jarr Wrote:  

(01-19-2019 09:28 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  That won't happen with our payroll limitations. The Reds had the second to worst staff ERA in the National League this past season IIRC. To me, they're putting together a solid, complimentary, upgraded staff as a whole. I think Castillo has the stuff to be the top guy but he has to work on consistency and command. Would be nice if this coming season is the year he puts it all together...

A healthy Dischafano and Mahle, and throw in Castillo and Gray, it makes for a pretty decent 2-5. They just need that ace. Add Corey Kubler and we are looking pretty damn good.

I guess it comes down to your definition of an "ace" and what the asking price is. After the moves they've made (Wood, Roark, and Gray), would adding Kluber at this point make financial sense ($17 million due 2019)? I'd hate to trade away more of our top prospects or a guy coming into his own like Winker. I still think Castillo at age 26 has tremendous upside as "the guy" and now you surround him with solid veterans. Again, I'm ecstatic at the moves the Reds have made to this point but they need to be careful it doesn't become diminishing returns after this year.

Why not include Puig in a trade for Kluber? Then we wouldn't have to give up as many prospects...

Puig is making about $10 million in 2019. So, that would offset Kluber's $17 million some but you're still adding $7 million to payroll. Puig is potentially a one year rental and I believe Kluber's contract is for three more years. Do the Indians need an outfielder and would they trade for a one year rental?

No they would not. They are trying to shed a little payroll and add some top notched prospects. Maybe if it was Trammell or Senziel and Puig, then maybe they would be interested. But I believe they want at least one of the two guys above, if not both. I'd move one for an ace like Kluber, but not both. I'm guessing the Gray deal will probably end the Reds pitching moves. Definitely is an upgrade to the staff and they didn't have to break the bank.