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I expected much more of an open and diverse play calling strategy when we got Johns from Indiana; regardless of our strengths or weaknesses in terms of players. We needed to take the pressure off our young QB and receivers by throwing on early downs enough to prevent defenses from stacking the line on first down. But I am not convinced the play calls were solely a product of Johns independent choice. Strategy like this either comes from the top, or should come from the top. I still blame Lester mostly.

How this effects WMU depends on who Lester puts in the critical spots, and to what extent he provides them with broad discretion to run the offense. Head coaches run football teams. They make the decisions on and off the field, set the tone with players and coaches, and live and die with the results.

Significant changes need to be made for this program to become very good, or even just above average. Either Lester and his staff need to change their philosophies and the way they do things, or new people need to be brought in. Last year they "fixed" what wasn't broken, and put their own "stamp" on the team. I hope they change the stamp before next season. I kind of doubt that Johns leaving will, in and of itself, make a big difference.

(01-31-2018 03:44 PM)brovol Wrote:  I expected much more of an open and diverse play calling strategy when we got Johns from Indiana; regardless of our strengths or weaknesses in terms of players. We needed to take the pressure off our young QB and receivers by throwing on early downs enough to prevent defenses from stacking the line on first down. But I am not convinced the play calls were solely a product of Johns independent choice. Strategy like this either comes from the top, or should come from the top. I still blame Lester mostly.

How this effects WMU depends on who Lester puts in the critical spots, and to what extent he provides them with broad discretion to run the offense. Head coaches run football teams. They make the decisions on and off the field, set the tone with players and coaches, and live and die with the results.

Significant changes need to be made for this program to become very good, or even just above average. Either Lester and his staff need to change their philosophies and the way they do things, or new people need to be brought in. Last year they "fixed" what wasn't broken, and put their own "stamp" on the team. I hope they change the stamp before next season. I kind of doubt that Johns leaving will, in and of itself, make a big difference.

So you think that our two first year QBs and our 4 rookie WRs should have been chucking it around on 1st down to loosen up the defense? We had the best Oline in the MAC as well as the best RBs, but you want to use our snot nosed QBs to distract the defenses?

The only big change we need is stay away from injuries, and hope that last years limited experience pays dividends.

Newsflash. UT, CMU, and EMU will all have new QBs and Olines. Then what was a weakness here becomes a strength. You’ve got to let go of the dynasty thing. If Fleck were a genius Minnesota wouldn’t be a train wreck.

We’ll be fine. Be patient. We will see what three years of great recruiting gives you.

(01-31-2018 04:22 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(01-31-2018 03:44 PM)brovol Wrote:  I expected much more of an open and diverse play calling strategy when we got Johns from Indiana; regardless of our strengths or weaknesses in terms of players. We needed to take the pressure off our young QB and receivers by throwing on early downs enough to prevent defenses from stacking the line on first down. But I am not convinced the play calls were solely a product of Johns independent choice. Strategy like this either comes from the top, or should come from the top. I still blame Lester mostly.

How this effects WMU depends on who Lester puts in the critical spots, and to what extent he provides them with broad discretion to run the offense. Head coaches run football teams. They make the decisions on and off the field, set the tone with players and coaches, and live and die with the results.

Significant changes need to be made for this program to become very good, or even just above average. Either Lester and his staff need to change their philosophies and the way they do things, or new people need to be brought in. Last year they "fixed" what wasn't broken, and put their own "stamp" on the team. I hope they change the stamp before next season. I kind of doubt that Johns leaving will, in and of itself, make a big difference.

So you think that our two first year QBs and our 4 rookie WRs should have been chucking it around on 1st down to loosen up the defense? We had the best Oline in the MAC as well as the best RBs, but you want to use our snot nosed QBs to distract the defenses?

The only big change we need is stay away from injuries, and hope that last years limited experience pays dividends.

Newsflash. UT, CMU, and EMU will all have new QBs and Olines. Then what was a weakness here becomes a strength. You’ve got to let go of the dynasty thing. If Fleck were a genius Minnesota wouldn’t be a train wreck.

We’ll be fine. Be patient. We will see what three years of great recruiting gives you.

Yes I do. And BECAUSE they were young it is even more important to put them in a position where they are not forced to throw on 3rd and long. This logic applies whether it is third and long with healthy players or backup players. Lester and company did not unveil a service academy type offense, where we committed to the run. We had an offense, all season long, which required a somewhat effective passing game. Which situation does a young qb and receivers have a better chance completing a ten yard pass; fist and ten, with the defense geared to stop the run, and 8-9 guys in the box, or, third and 8, where the defense is fully expecting a pass attempt, and adjusts accordingly?

You can mock the suggestion, but forcing the run, on run downs, in an abundantly predictable way, is a prescription for punting at every level of football, and in any league. And the more inexperienced your key players are, the more conspicuous this rule becomes. We will never have a line or a running game which is so good that we can run even when the defenses we play know we are running; and by the way, either will any other team short of a exceptionally polished and well designed triple option academy-type team.

I love the recruiting efforts and results, but there is a lot more to winning than great players.

(01-30-2018 11:49 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  I think he’ll be missed.

You saw it here first...the above will be Dip’s excuse if Lester’s team underperforms.



Honestly, I could not resist. Yes it is hopslam season! The lack of attacks on the board lately has been refreshing...here I am ruining it! I mean no disrespect and thought it was funny. Okay back to my hibernation.

Johns is gone and honestly I can’t really say looking back he did great things or failed at other things... first year with no previous markers to gauge against... but when you have a true weakness at QB and WR with a solid OL and RB crew... and don’t take the opportunity to be a run first team... I question it...

Sure it’s important to be multi dimensional... but look at Army and Navy... when you can run when they know you’re going to run it’s devastating to a defense. We had the pieces to be that kind of offense last year... would have been great for whoever was QB.

Personally, I have no strong feelings about this one way or another. I agree that his departure makes very little difference because our offense was average at best to begin with. No creativity, predictable, conservative, vanilla, very few adjustments, etc. you name it. I was never impressed with the scheme or the play calling.

Nothing but upside IMO to try someone/something new and different.

People who make their living in college football found John’s worthy of hiring at a much more successful program than WMU. Yet listening to you guys we’re better off without him.

(01-31-2018 06:45 PM)wmutkelaw Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 11:49 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  I think he’ll be missed.

You saw it here first...the above will be Dip’s excuse if Lester’s team underperforms.



Honestly, I could not resist. Yes it is hopslam season! The lack of attacks on the board lately has been refreshing...here I am ruining it! I mean no disrespect and thought it was funny. Okay back to my hibernation.

Not really. If we stay reasonably healthy there won’t be room for excuses.

(01-31-2018 05:22 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(01-31-2018 04:22 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(01-31-2018 03:44 PM)brovol Wrote:  I expected much more of an open and diverse play calling strategy when we got Johns from Indiana; regardless of our strengths or weaknesses in terms of players. We needed to take the pressure off our young QB and receivers by throwing on early downs enough to prevent defenses from stacking the line on first down. But I am not convinced the play calls were solely a product of Johns independent choice. Strategy like this either comes from the top, or should come from the top. I still blame Lester mostly.

How this effects WMU depends on who Lester puts in the critical spots, and to what extent he provides them with broad discretion to run the offense. Head coaches run football teams. They make the decisions on and off the field, set the tone with players and coaches, and live and die with the results.

Significant changes need to be made for this program to become very good, or even just above average. Either Lester and his staff need to change their philosophies and the way they do things, or new people need to be brought in. Last year they "fixed" what wasn't broken, and put their own "stamp" on the team. I hope they change the stamp before next season. I kind of doubt that Johns leaving will, in and of itself, make a big difference.

So you think that our two first year QBs and our 4 rookie WRs should have been chucking it around on 1st down to loosen up the defense? We had the best Oline in the MAC as well as the best RBs, but you want to use our snot nosed QBs to distract the defenses?

The only big change we need is stay away from injuries, and hope that last years limited experience pays dividends.

Newsflash. UT, CMU, and EMU will all have new QBs and Olines. Then what was a weakness here becomes a strength. You’ve got to let go of the dynasty thing. If Fleck were a genius Minnesota wouldn’t be a train wreck.

We’ll be fine. Be patient. We will see what three years of great recruiting gives you.

Yes I do. And BECAUSE they were young it is even more important to put them in a position where they are not forced to throw on 3rd and long. This logic applies whether it is third and long with healthy players or backup players. Lester and company did not unveil a service academy type offense, where we committed to the run. We had an offense, all season long, which required a somewhat effective passing game. Which situation does a young qb and receivers have a better chance completing a ten yard pass; fist and ten, with the defense geared to stop the run, and 8-9 guys in the box, or, third and 8, where the defense is fully expecting a pass attempt, and adjusts accordingly?

You can mock the suggestion, but forcing the run, on run downs, in an abundantly predictable way, is a prescription for punting at every level of football, and in any league. And the more inexperienced your key players are, the more conspicuous this rule becomes. We will never have a line or a running game which is so good that we can run even when the defenses we play know we are running; and by the way, either will any other team short of a exceptionally polished and well designed triple option academy-type team.

I love the recruiting efforts and results, but there is a lot more to winning than great players.

Bravo, Brovol. Perfectly stated in both posts.

(01-31-2018 04:22 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(01-31-2018 03:44 PM)brovol Wrote:  I expected much more of an open and diverse play calling strategy when we got Johns from Indiana; regardless of our strengths or weaknesses in terms of players. We needed to take the pressure off our young QB and receivers by throwing on early downs enough to prevent defenses from stacking the line on first down. But I am not convinced the play calls were solely a product of Johns independent choice. Strategy like this either comes from the top, or should come from the top. I still blame Lester mostly.

How this effects WMU depends on who Lester puts in the critical spots, and to what extent he provides them with broad discretion to run the offense. Head coaches run football teams. They make the decisions on and off the field, set the tone with players and coaches, and live and die with the results.

Significant changes need to be made for this program to become very good, or even just above average. Either Lester and his staff need to change their philosophies and the way they do things, or new people need to be brought in. Last year they "fixed" what wasn't broken, and put their own "stamp" on the team. I hope they change the stamp before next season. I kind of doubt that Johns leaving will, in and of itself, make a big difference.

So you think that our two first year QBs and our 4 rookie WRs should have been chucking it around on 1st down to loosen up the defense? We had the best Oline in the MAC as well as the best RBs, but you want to use our snot nosed QBs to distract the defenses?

The only big change we need is stay away from injuries, and hope that last years limited experience pays dividends.

Newsflash. UT, CMU, and EMU will all have new QBs and Olines. Then what was a weakness here becomes a strength. You’ve got to let go of the dynasty thing. If Fleck were a genius Minnesota wouldn’t be a train wreck.

We’ll be fine. Be patient. We will see what three years of great recruiting gives you.

Actually we return our entire OLine. QB is of course the big question. Robacks experience will be missed, but certainly not the turnovers. Fortunately we won't have to rely on freshmen to win the job, so it'll be interesting to see how the QB battle plays out.

(01-31-2018 08:28 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  People who make their living in college football found John’s worthy of hiring at a much more successful program than WMU. Yet listening to you guys we’re better off without him.

Same could be said about Dan Enos... and probably dozens of other coordinators out there.

(01-31-2018 04:22 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(01-31-2018 03:44 PM)brovol Wrote:  I expected much more of an open and diverse play calling strategy when we got Johns from Indiana; regardless of our strengths or weaknesses in terms of players. We needed to take the pressure off our young QB and receivers by throwing on early downs enough to prevent defenses from stacking the line on first down. But I am not convinced the play calls were solely a product of Johns independent choice. Strategy like this either comes from the top, or should come from the top. I still blame Lester mostly.

How this effects WMU depends on who Lester puts in the critical spots, and to what extent he provides them with broad discretion to run the offense. Head coaches run football teams. They make the decisions on and off the field, set the tone with players and coaches, and live and die with the results.

Significant changes need to be made for this program to become very good, or even just above average. Either Lester and his staff need to change their philosophies and the way they do things, or new people need to be brought in. Last year they "fixed" what wasn't broken, and put their own "stamp" on the team. I hope they change the stamp before next season. I kind of doubt that Johns leaving will, in and of itself, make a big difference.

So you think that our two first year QBs and our 4 rookie WRs should have been chucking it around on 1st down to loosen up the defense? We had the best Oline in the MAC as well as the best RBs, but you want to use our snot nosed QBs to distract the defenses?

The only big change we need is stay away from injuries, and hope that last years limited experience pays dividends.

Newsflash. UT, CMU, and EMU will all have new QBs and Olines. Then what was a weakness here becomes a strength. You’ve got to let go of the dynasty thing. If Fleck were a genius Minnesota wouldn’t be a train wreck.

We’ll be fine. Be patient. We will see what three years of great recruiting gives you.

And if we're 7-5 and finish 3rd in the West again next season?

Putting your eggs all in the 2018 basket I see.

We've seen what three years of great recruiting gives us. Rhymes with Gotten Dole.

2017 was a transition year. There were bound to be "hic-ups" from both players and coaching staff, and we certainly saw them. That said, it is 2018, and last season's disappointment is behind us.

Whether Johns' departure is good or bad is hard to tell, but I wish him well.

Looking forward, there is no denying Coach Lester has recruited well and his predecessor left him plenty of talent to be competitive this fall.

Here's a link to Michigan's Top 50 recruits and there is plenty of reason to be proud of WMU and Coach Lester:

http://www.mlive.com/sports/2018/02/chec...river_home

Keep driving forward, gentleman!

(02-01-2018 10:01 AM)GullLake Wrote:  2017 was a transition year. There were bound to be "hic-ups" from both players and coaching staff, and we certainly saw them. That said, it is 2018, and last season's disappointment is behind us.

Whether Johns' departure is good or bad is hard to tell, but I wish him well.

Looking forward, there is no denying Coach Lester has recruited well and his predecessor left him plenty of talent to be competitive this fall.

Here's a link to Michigan's Top 50 recruits and there is plenty of reason to be proud of WMU and Coach Lester:

http://www.mlive.com/sports/2018/02/chec...river_home

Keep driving forward, gentleman!

No reason to hiccup. We had a ton of talent, lots of experience, and a winning culture. We had problems because we change things that didn't need to be changed. Tomorrow is another day, but it will be a gray and cloudy day if our leadership doesn't change how it did things this past season.

Who are top players returning for us next year?

QB-Wassink, Wyatt

RB?

WR?

OL- Antwan reed

Defense?

I just hope we kick syracuses a$$ at the home opener.

(02-02-2018 12:10 PM)Fthechips Wrote:  Who are top players returning for us next year?

QB-Wassink, Wyatt

RB?

WR?

OL- Antwan reed

Defense?

I just hope we kick syracuses a$$ at the home opener.

QB - Wassink
RB - Bogan/Bellamy
WR - Watson/Eskridge
OL - Keenoy
DL - Clark
LB - Clayton
CB - Beal
S - Tranquill?

We'll see about Syracuse when we get there, have to get through Spring camp healthy!

(02-03-2018 01:45 AM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 12:10 PM)Fthechips Wrote:  Who are top players returning for us next year?

QB-Wassink, Wyatt

RB?

WR?

OL- Antwan reed

Defense?

I just hope we kick syracuses a$$ at the home opener.

QB - Wassink
RB - Bogan/Bellamy
WR - Watson/Eskridge
OL - Keenoy/Juriga/Novoselsky
DL - Clark/Assoua
LB - Clayton
CB - Beal
S - Tranquill?

We'll see about Syracuse when we get there, have to get through Spring camp healthy!

Clayton would have possibly been our top LB in '17 . The WR position will improve. Keep your eye on soph Tyrone Arnett from "Muck City" area that has produced over 40 NFL players. He has speed. Former Bronco and NFL WR Kendrick Mosley played a role getting him to Kalamazoo. Luke Sanders will be a star at WMU once he gets experience and 15-20# on his 6'4 frame.

(02-04-2018 12:53 PM)BuickBronco Wrote:  Clayton would have possibly been our top LB in '17 . The WR position will improve. Keep your eye on soph Tyrone Arnett from "Muck City" area that has produced over 40 NFL players. He has speed. Former Bronco and NFL WR Kendrick Mosley played a role getting him to Kalamazoo. Luke Sanders will be a star at WMU once he gets experience and 15-20# on his 6'4 frame.

Actually, Raheem Buxton who was only here for a year and a half was instrumental in getting a fellow Pahokey alum to Western. In spite of a breif and troubled stint in Kalamazoo, he said it was a great environment and he blamed himself for his pitfalls. Pahokey is a great connection to have.

Nobody can doubt the talent that exists in Florida. You have to recruit there. But I prefer that they continue their focus in the Midwest. Which it looks like they are. The state of Michigan is quickly becoming a hotbed for recruiting.