(01-30-2018 03:45 PM)ken d Wrote:  Why would the A-10 even consider adding anybody? They are already too big, and there are zero advantages and a lot of disadvantages to being big in NCAA hoops.

Mostly agree, but I'll throw this out there: With at-large bids getting sucked up more and more by the major conferences, it might behoove the A-10 and conferences in their position to try to gobble up potential bid-stealing programs to add to their bid pool or at the very least eliminate competition for what's out there. I don't think it's such a priority that they'd leave their geographic and institutional footprint to add, say, FGCU, but at some point does it cross their mind that having Belmont in the fold helps them more than having them out there possibly taking one of the few non-major at-larges?

Belmont would be intriguing. It fits the small/private profile, it is in a major market so its easy to get to, and a school like Davidson would love to have a peer that is geographically friendly. On top of all that they are basketball first school the A10 likes. A very intriguing option if needed.

(01-30-2018 04:06 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Belmont would be intriguing. It fits the small/private profile, it is in a major market so its easy to get to, and a school like Davidson would love to have a peer that is geographically friendly. On top of all that they are basketball first school the A10 likes. A very intriguing option if needed.

It’s either going to be UNCW or UCLA. Definitely one of those U schools.

(01-30-2018 03:58 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 03:45 PM)ken d Wrote:  Why would the A-10 even consider adding anybody? They are already too big, and there are zero advantages and a lot of disadvantages to being big in NCAA hoops.

Mostly agree, but I'll throw this out there: With at-large bids getting sucked up more and more by the major conferences, it might behoove the A-10 and conferences in their position to try to gobble up potential bid-stealing programs to add to their bid pool or at the very least eliminate competition for what's out there. I don't think it's such a priority that they'd leave their geographic and institutional footprint to add, say, FGCU, but at some point does it cross their mind that having Belmont in the fold helps them more than having them out there possibly taking one of the few non-major at-larges?

Who is a "potential bid-stealing program"? We have reached a point where 75% of D-I conferences are one bid leagues. The A-10 is trying to swim against the tide and be one of the 25%, but they have been moving in the wrong direction.

Most of those 24 one-bid leagues are such that, if their best team loses its conference tourney they are almost surely relegated to the NIT. If the A-10 were to add a Belmont, who is likely to get their conference's one bid relatively often, a different and lesser team will get that one bid. But the A-10 won't be in any better position to get a second bid. They will have just added another mouth to feed.

There really doesn't seem any longer to be anyone out there who could improve a conference's prospects vis-a-vis the tournament.

(01-30-2018 04:25 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 04:06 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Belmont would be intriguing. It fits the small/private profile, it is in a major market so its easy to get to, and a school like Davidson would love to have a peer that is geographically friendly. On top of all that they are basketball first school the A10 likes. A very intriguing option if needed.

It’s either going to be UNCW or UCLA. Definitely one of those U schools.

from a guy who can't answer a simple question, why the snark?

I’d wait to see if Belmont can do it under a another coach or that could be a Fordham in a hurry.

(01-30-2018 05:51 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  I’d wait to see if Belmont can do it under a another coach or that could be a Fordham in a hurry.

Fair point. Counterpoint is the same could be said about Davidson under McKillop

(01-30-2018 06:00 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 05:51 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  I’d wait to see if Belmont can do it under a another coach or that could be a Fordham in a hurry.

Fair point. Counterpoint is the same could be said about Davidson under McKillop

I wouldn’t sleep on Niagra or UAlbany. Niagra is a Little Three rival of the Bonnies. If UMass leaves UAlbany can fill that state school spot. Closer to URI than UVM is too.

(01-30-2018 06:00 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 05:51 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  I’d wait to see if Belmont can do it under a another coach or that could be a Fordham in a hurry.

Fair point. Counterpoint is the same could be said about Davidson under McKillop

Also a fair point. Counter-counterpoint is that Davidson also had Lefty Driesell and Terry Holland as HCs and boast a far richer basketball history than Belmont.

(01-30-2018 02:04 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Which A10 school would be in favor of Sienna and Iona, not counting LaSalle?

Rough Count
Solidy Yes: St. Joe's, Duquesne, Fordham, St Bony's,
Likely Yes: GW

Who are the other 4 or 5 that would vote in favor or 2 more small Catholic NY schools?

Siena is a top 100 attendance leader for NCAA Division I men's basketball, a feat that's only matched by a few current A-10 members, and would immediately become one of the most popular teams in the conference. I'm not sure that enrollment size or affiliation with the Franciscan order matters so much when the team is able to play in downtown Albany's arena and draw fans from the community. The Siena program is well-funded compared to lots of struggling athletic programs. And the Albany area is doing well economically, it sits just outside the top 50 TV markets, and the fans here tend to favor college sports over the various minor league pro sports that come and go. (UAlbany football and basketball are also popular, as are the hockey programs at RPI and Union.)

Probably the one thing holding Siena back is whether it can consistently win on the court, with its last NCAA Tournament birth way back in 2010, a CBI championship in 2014, and another CBI appearance in 2016.

If you're going to pick on Siena's chances, first of all make sure you spell it right, and then figure out the things that the A-10 would actually prioritize.

(01-30-2018 07:29 PM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 02:04 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Which A10 school would be in favor of Sienna and Iona, not counting LaSalle?

Rough Count
Solidy Yes: St. Joe's, Duquesne, Fordham, St Bony's,
Likely Yes: GW

Who are the other 4 or 5 that would vote in favor or 2 more small Catholic NY schools?

Siena is a top 100 attendance leader for NCAA Division I men's basketball, a feat that's only matched by a few current A-10 members, and would immediately become one of the most popular teams in the conference. I'm not sure that enrollment size or affiliation with the Franciscan order matters so much when the team is able to play in downtown Albany's arena and draw fans from the community. The Siena program is well-funded compared to lots of struggling athletic programs. And the Albany area is doing well economically, it sits just outside the top 50 TV markets, and the fans here tend to favor college sports over the various minor league pro sports that come and go. (UAlbany football and basketball are also popular, as are the hockey programs at RPI and Union.)

Probably the one thing holding Siena back is whether it can consistently win on the court, with its last NCAA Tournament birth way back in 2010, a CBI championship in 2014, and another CBI appearance in 2016.

If you're going to pick on Siena's chances, first of all make sure you spell it right, and then figure out the things that the A-10 would actually prioritize.

All that is great. But it still doesn't answer the question what 9 or 10 schools would likely support their addition versus standing pat. I listed 5

(01-30-2018 06:54 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 06:00 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 05:51 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  I’d wait to see if Belmont can do it under a another coach or that could be a Fordham in a hurry.

Fair point. Counterpoint is the same could be said about Davidson under McKillop

Also a fair point. Counter-counterpoint is that Davidson also had Lefty Driesell and Terry Holland as HCs and boast a far richer basketball history than Belmont.

That is very true. Davidson does boast a very rich history unlike Belmont, making Belmont more a gamble than Davidson was in that sense

(01-30-2018 06:15 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  I wouldn’t sleep on Niagra or UAlbany. Niagra is a Little Three rival of the Bonnies. If UMass leaves UAlbany can fill that state school spot. Closer to URI than UVM is too.

You should sleep on Niagara. They play in what very much amounts to a high school gym, complete with non-backed bleacher seating and baskets that drop down from the ceiling. Their campus is also in a weird part of a small town that's still pretty disconnected from the rest of that metro area.

UAlbany is more compelling, but they're also a football school. If Hofstra ever stops blocking Stony Brook, I could see those two schools moving together to the CAA or a similar conference.

(01-30-2018 07:34 PM)solohawks Wrote:  All that is great. But it still doesn't answer the question what 9 or 10 schools would likely support their addition versus standing pat. I listed 5

I'm not trying to count the votes, I don't see it as a likely scenario. I responded to you because your dismissive attitude toward "more small Catholic NY schools" is demonstrably false. That other parts of your post could have validity doesn't make you not wrong about that part.

(01-30-2018 07:41 PM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 07:34 PM)solohawks Wrote:  All that is great. But it still doesn't answer the question what 9 or 10 schools would likely support their addition versus standing pat. I listed 5

I'm not trying to count the votes, I don't see it as a likely scenario. I responded to you because your dismissive attitude toward "more small Catholic NY schools" is demonstrably false. That other parts of your post could have validity doesn't make you not wrong about that part.

I don't mean to be dismissive I just don't see them having enough votes. Just like my preferred UNCW CoC combo addition doesn't have enough votes

(01-30-2018 04:06 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Belmont would be intriguing. It fits the small/private profile, it is in a major market so its easy to get to, and a school like Davidson would love to have a peer that is geographically friendly. On top of all that they are basketball first school the A10 likes. A very intriguing option if needed.

Belmont is way too new to D-I. I remember when they first made the NCAA Tournament, beating Lipscomb, who was favored in the A-Sun title game. If Lipscomb wins, maybe their stock skyrockets and they're an expansion candidate. That's March Madness for you, where a victory here or there changes history and perceptions.

Their ceiling is the Valley imo.

(01-30-2018 07:36 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 06:54 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 06:00 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 05:51 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  I’d wait to see if Belmont can do it under a another coach or that could be a Fordham in a hurry.

Fair point. Counterpoint is the same could be said about Davidson under McKillop

Also a fair point. Counter-counterpoint is that Davidson also had Lefty Driesell and Terry Holland as HCs and boast a far richer basketball history than Belmont.

That is very true. Davidson does boast a very rich history unlike Belmont, making Belmont more a gamble than Davidson was in that sense

It's water under the bridge because they're in but Davidson is a major long term risk. They're a small school with a limited reach. They don't even have the most history in their area, Charlotte does. Then on top of that, they're in a state with Duke, Carolina, NC State and even Wake and on top of that just across the border from so many more schools, including Clemson and South Carolina.

I think the A-10 jumped the gun. Steph Curry was a great player and I know they had a few good teams before that but they have a limited ceiling. Davidson themselves may have to eventually drop back down to the SoCon.

(01-30-2018 07:29 PM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 02:04 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Which A10 school would be in favor of Sienna and Iona, not counting LaSalle?

Rough Count
Solidy Yes: St. Joe's, Duquesne, Fordham, St Bony's,
Likely Yes: GW

Who are the other 4 or 5 that would vote in favor or 2 more small Catholic NY schools?

Siena is a top 100 attendance leader for NCAA Division I men's basketball, a feat that's only matched by a few current A-10 members, and would immediately become one of the most popular teams in the conference. I'm not sure that enrollment size or affiliation with the Franciscan order matters so much when the team is able to play in downtown Albany's arena and draw fans from the community. The Siena program is well-funded compared to lots of struggling athletic programs. And the Albany area is doing well economically, it sits just outside the top 50 TV markets, and the fans here tend to favor college sports over the various minor league pro sports that come and go. (UAlbany football and basketball are also popular, as are the hockey programs at RPI and Union.)

Probably the one thing holding Siena back is whether it can consistently win on the court, with its last NCAA Tournament birth way back in 2010, a CBI championship in 2014, and another CBI appearance in 2016.

If you're going to pick on Siena's chances, first of all make sure you spell it right, and then figure out the things that the A-10 would actually prioritize.

That's one that makes no sense to me. Shouldn't it be Albany as the most popular program there? It's even an SUNY campus.

(01-30-2018 09:12 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 07:36 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 06:54 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 06:00 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 05:51 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  I’d wait to see if Belmont can do it under a another coach or that could be a Fordham in a hurry.

Fair point. Counterpoint is the same could be said about Davidson under McKillop

Also a fair point. Counter-counterpoint is that Davidson also had Lefty Driesell and Terry Holland as HCs and boast a far richer basketball history than Belmont.

That is very true. Davidson does boast a very rich history unlike Belmont, making Belmont more a gamble than Davidson was in that sense

It's water under the bridge because they're in but Davidson is a major long term risk. They're a small school with a limited reach. They don't even have the most history in their area, Charlotte does. Then on top of that, they're in a state with Duke, Carolina, NC State and even Wake and on top of that just across the border from so many more schools, including Clemson and South Carolina.

I think the A-10 jumped the gun. Steph Curry was a great player and I know they had a few good teams before that but they have a limited ceiling. Davidson themselves may have to eventually drop back down to the SoCon.

I think you’re missing a lot of what goes into realignment. Davidson is an elite academic school that the other A-10 schools want to be aligned with. As long as they are decent every couple of years, most A-10 will be satisfied with the addition.

(01-30-2018 09:12 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 07:36 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 06:54 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 06:00 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 05:51 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  I’d wait to see if Belmont can do it under a another coach or that could be a Fordham in a hurry.

Fair point. Counterpoint is the same could be said about Davidson under McKillop

Also a fair point. Counter-counterpoint is that Davidson also had Lefty Driesell and Terry Holland as HCs and boast a far richer basketball history than Belmont.

That is very true. Davidson does boast a very rich history unlike Belmont, making Belmont more a gamble than Davidson was in that sense

It's water under the bridge because they're in but Davidson is a major long term risk. They're a small school with a limited reach. They don't even have the most history in their area, Charlotte does. Then on top of that, they're in a state with Duke, Carolina, NC State and even Wake and on top of that just across the border from so many more schools, including Clemson and South Carolina.

I think the A-10 jumped the gun. Steph Curry was a great player and I know they had a few good teams before that but they have a limited ceiling. Davidson themselves may have to eventually drop back down to the SoCon.

I thought adding Davidson was a mistake. I was wrong. Bonus points....Davidson is actually rich enough to continue to spend what it will take to be a top 60 basketball program.

And Davidson is a VERY rich school. Roughly 10 times the endowment of Belmont on a per student basis. And Davidson has a network of very successful alumni. If they want to stay at the higher level, they can easily spend the bucks to do it.