solohawks
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RE: LaSalle rumor
(01-30-2018 10:48 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: (01-30-2018 09:55 AM)solohawks Wrote: (01-30-2018 09:42 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: (01-30-2018 09:37 AM)solohawks Wrote: (01-30-2018 09:34 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: Its possible they expand. Its also possible they sit at 13. They don't lose much if LaSalle bolts. Olympic sports work just fine with 13 teams.
I think Siena would be given first go at it if the league decides to expand.
Here is who I see definitely being against Siena but please correct me if you disagree
UMass, URI, VCU, GMU, Davidson
I dont see the big public schools wanting another small NY private that doesn't bring that much to the table. Davidson will join in to try to get someone close to Charlotte.
If those 5 are against it, expansion cannot happen unless its simple majority rules.
URI and UMass really don't act much like a traditional public school. And Siena helps them shift the conference a bit further north. It also stops a run at BU/Northeastern, which they most certainly DO NOT want.
I think you might want to subtract UMass and URI from the no votes on Siena and add (perhaps) add St Louis and Dayton to the no votes on Siena.
But you don't need to expand to avoid adding BU/Northeastern. I think UMass and URI would rather stand pat and wait than expand with another small private catholic based school.
If I were URI or UMass and really wanted to expand, I would look at Vermont before Siena.
I agree with you about BU/Northeastern. I don't think the A-10 really is interested in making a play. And BU appears to be happy in the Patriot.
I'd prefer Vermont to Siena. But that's just me. But I think that if LaSalle leaves, the best solution is....nothing.
I agree. If LaSalle does anything the most likely result is LaSalle as MAAC #12 and A10 just goes with 13
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01-30-2018 10:52 AM |
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Cyniclone
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RE: LaSalle rumor
So how much does the A-10 have to lose before expansion is necessary? Even if they lost LaSalle to a downgrade, UMass to the AAC and Dayton+St. Louis to the Big East, they'd still have 10 schools and a smaller footprint. Would they stand pat even then? Or do they feel the need to get back to 12?
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01-30-2018 11:10 AM |
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solohawks
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RE: LaSalle rumor
Unless there is just a cannot miss basketball program out there from the mid majors, I don't see why they would go above 10 again. The whole point to get above 12 from my understanding was to protect itself from Big East expansion. I believe they were at 16 at one point.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2018 11:12 AM by solohawks.)
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01-30-2018 11:12 AM |
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Tom in Lazybrook
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RE: LaSalle rumor
(01-30-2018 11:10 AM)Cyniclone Wrote: So how much does the A-10 have to lose before expansion is necessary? Even if they lost LaSalle to a downgrade, UMass to the AAC and Dayton+St. Louis to the Big East, they'd still have 10 schools and a smaller footprint. Would they stand pat even then? Or do they feel the need to get back to 12?
If they lost Dayton, LaSalle, St Louis, and UMass...
My guess is that the league would might try to retain some sort of local-ish rival for the benefit of URI.
UMass to the AAC is not happening anytime soon.
----
Losing Dayton, SLU, and LaSalle....might result in 1 or no teams being added.
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01-30-2018 11:16 AM |
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solohawks
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RE: LaSalle rumor
(01-30-2018 11:16 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: (01-30-2018 11:10 AM)Cyniclone Wrote: So how much does the A-10 have to lose before expansion is necessary? Even if they lost LaSalle to a downgrade, UMass to the AAC and Dayton+St. Louis to the Big East, they'd still have 10 schools and a smaller footprint. Would they stand pat even then? Or do they feel the need to get back to 12?
If they lost Dayton, LaSalle, St Louis, and UMass...
My guess is that the league would might try to retain some sort of local-ish rival for the benefit of URI.
UMass to the AAC is not happening anytime soon.
----
Losing Dayton, SLU, and LaSalle....might result in 1 or no teams being added.
If UMass left do you think would Vermont be added for URI's benefit?
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01-30-2018 11:26 AM |
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Tom in Lazybrook
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RE: LaSalle rumor
(01-30-2018 11:26 AM)solohawks Wrote: (01-30-2018 11:16 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: (01-30-2018 11:10 AM)Cyniclone Wrote: So how much does the A-10 have to lose before expansion is necessary? Even if they lost LaSalle to a downgrade, UMass to the AAC and Dayton+St. Louis to the Big East, they'd still have 10 schools and a smaller footprint. Would they stand pat even then? Or do they feel the need to get back to 12?
If they lost Dayton, LaSalle, St Louis, and UMass...
My guess is that the league would might try to retain some sort of local-ish rival for the benefit of URI.
UMass to the AAC is not happening anytime soon.
----
Losing Dayton, SLU, and LaSalle....might result in 1 or no teams being added.
If UMass left do you think would Vermont be added for URI's benefit?
UMass has nowhere to go at this time. And failing some playoff run, they won't have a place to go for the foreseeable future. But I'll play along.
IF UMass left, I think the A-10 would want a rival for URI in New England. Vermont is an options. But Burlington, VT is 300 miles from URI. Philadelphia is closer to URI.
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01-30-2018 11:48 AM |
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LostInSpace
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RE: LaSalle rumor
(01-30-2018 11:48 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: (01-30-2018 11:26 AM)solohawks Wrote: (01-30-2018 11:16 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: (01-30-2018 11:10 AM)Cyniclone Wrote: So how much does the A-10 have to lose before expansion is necessary? Even if they lost LaSalle to a downgrade, UMass to the AAC and Dayton+St. Louis to the Big East, they'd still have 10 schools and a smaller footprint. Would they stand pat even then? Or do they feel the need to get back to 12?
If they lost Dayton, LaSalle, St Louis, and UMass...
My guess is that the league would might try to retain some sort of local-ish rival for the benefit of URI.
UMass to the AAC is not happening anytime soon.
----
Losing Dayton, SLU, and LaSalle....might result in 1 or no teams being added.
If UMass left do you think would Vermont be added for URI's benefit?
UMass has nowhere to go at this time. And failing some playoff run, they won't have a place to go for the foreseeable future. But I'll play along.
IF UMass left, I think the A-10 would want a rival for URI in New England. Vermont is an options. But Burlington, VT is 300 miles from URI. Philadelphia is closer to URI.
No one is leaving the A10 anytime soon. That includes La Salle. But i’ll play along too.
The A10 presidents have a formalized set of evaluation criteria that they use. One of the most heavily weighted items is a potential member’s commitment to men’s and women’s basketball. UVM will never get serious consideration because hockey is the unquestioned top sport there. I doubt UVM would be interested in the A10 anyway.
The only thing that has changed in their selection criteria over the years is that the presidents decided to place a much higher weight on a potential member fitting in the conference foot print in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic at the time of the last round of departures. Davidson was offered because they had a clearly superior pedigree than any other potential candidate and the conference saw value in continuing to have presence in the Charlotte metro. Consequently ... Siena, Iona, Fairfield or the A10 doesn’t backfill. Those are the only viable options from the perspective of A10 presidents.
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01-30-2018 12:19 PM |
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Tom in Lazybrook
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RE: LaSalle rumor
(01-30-2018 12:19 PM)LostInSpace Wrote: (01-30-2018 11:48 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: (01-30-2018 11:26 AM)solohawks Wrote: (01-30-2018 11:16 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: (01-30-2018 11:10 AM)Cyniclone Wrote: So how much does the A-10 have to lose before expansion is necessary? Even if they lost LaSalle to a downgrade, UMass to the AAC and Dayton+St. Louis to the Big East, they'd still have 10 schools and a smaller footprint. Would they stand pat even then? Or do they feel the need to get back to 12?
If they lost Dayton, LaSalle, St Louis, and UMass...
My guess is that the league would might try to retain some sort of local-ish rival for the benefit of URI.
UMass to the AAC is not happening anytime soon.
----
Losing Dayton, SLU, and LaSalle....might result in 1 or no teams being added.
If UMass left do you think would Vermont be added for URI's benefit?
UMass has nowhere to go at this time. And failing some playoff run, they won't have a place to go for the foreseeable future. But I'll play along.
IF UMass left, I think the A-10 would want a rival for URI in New England. Vermont is an options. But Burlington, VT is 300 miles from URI. Philadelphia is closer to URI.
No one is leaving the A10 anytime soon. That includes La Salle. But i’ll play along too.
The A10 presidents have a formalized set of evaluation criteria that they use. One of the most heavily weighted items is a potential member’s commitment to men’s and women’s basketball. UVM will never get serious consideration because hockey is the unquestioned top sport there. I doubt UVM would be interested in the A10 anyway.
The only thing that has changed in their selection criteria over the years is that the presidents decided to place a much higher weight on a potential member fitting in the conference foot print in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic at the time of the last round of departures. Davidson was offered because they had a clearly superior pedigree than any other potential candidate and the conference saw value in continuing to have presence in the Charlotte metro. Consequently ... Siena, Iona, Fairfield or the A10 doesn’t backfill. Those are the only viable options from the perspective of A10 presidents.
Good point about hockey spending.
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01-30-2018 12:38 PM |
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C2__
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RE: LaSalle rumor
(01-30-2018 09:34 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: (01-30-2018 08:54 AM)solohawks Wrote: Assuming the A10 needs 3/4 to expand if LaSalle leaves, what candidate could garner 10 votes out of the 13 remaining schools
If it is 2/3, 9 votes will be needed.
I think they would just sit pat at 13
Its possible they expand. Its also possible they sit at 13. They don't lose much if LaSalle bolts. Olympic sports work just fine with 13 teams.
I think Siena would be given first go at it if the league decides to expand.
Wilmington and Charleston would have a shot. Siena if they wanted in. Hofstra could get consideration.
I may suggest LIU but they seem too low level. But they would be the closest thing to being Brooklyn's college basketball team. Lastly, Iona and Manhattan, though Manhattan seems too small with not enough fans.
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01-30-2018 01:15 PM |
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C2__
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RE: LaSalle rumor
(01-30-2018 11:16 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: (01-30-2018 11:10 AM)Cyniclone Wrote: So how much does the A-10 have to lose before expansion is necessary? Even if they lost LaSalle to a downgrade, UMass to the AAC and Dayton+St. Louis to the Big East, they'd still have 10 schools and a smaller footprint. Would they stand pat even then? Or do they feel the need to get back to 12?
If they lost Dayton, LaSalle, St Louis, and UMass...
My guess is that the league would might try to retain some sort of local-ish rival for the benefit of URI.
UMass to the AAC is not happening anytime soon.
----
Losing Dayton, SLU, and LaSalle....might result in 1 or no teams being added.
It'd be UMass to C-USA if anything.
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01-30-2018 01:21 PM |
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C2__
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RE: LaSalle rumor
(01-30-2018 11:48 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: UMass has nowhere to go at this time. And failing some playoff run, they won't have a place to go for the foreseeable future. But I'll play along.
IF UMass left, I think the A-10 would want a rival for URI in New England. Vermont is an options. But Burlington, VT is 300 miles from URI. Philadelphia is closer to URI.
Is UMass even close to URI? Without doing a search, I'd think Fordham was more or less the same distance. In such a case, wouldn't the A-10 look at Boston U. as a UMass replacement if need be?
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01-30-2018 01:33 PM |
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LostInSpace
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RE: LaSalle rumor
(01-30-2018 01:33 PM)_C2_ Wrote: (01-30-2018 11:48 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: UMass has nowhere to go at this time. And failing some playoff run, they won't have a place to go for the foreseeable future. But I'll play along.
IF UMass left, I think the A-10 would want a rival for URI in New England. Vermont is an options. But Burlington, VT is 300 miles from URI. Philadelphia is closer to URI.
Is UMass even close to URI? Without doing a search, I'd think Fordham was more or less the same distance. In such a case, wouldn't the A-10 look at Boston U. as a UMass replacement if need be?
Stop already. UMass and URI are barely more than 100 miles apart. They are each other’s most common opponent by far. BU tried for years to get into the A10. They gave up and joined the Patriot.
BTW, here is the list of schools sponsoring D1 hockey invited to join the A10 since the first defections in the 1970s.
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The only way the A10 gets past Siena and Iona is in the event the conference is collapsing. That’s not likely to happen.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2018 02:00 PM by LostInSpace.)
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01-30-2018 01:59 PM |
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solohawks
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RE: LaSalle rumor
Which A10 school would be in favor of Sienna and Iona, not counting LaSalle?
Rough Count
Solidy Yes: St. Joe's, Duquesne, Fordham, St Bony's,
Likely Yes: GW
Who are the other 4 or 5 that would vote in favor or 2 more small Catholic NY schools?
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01-30-2018 02:04 PM |
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TOPSTRAIGHT
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RE: LaSalle rumor
I think someone has been feeding the seagulls again.
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01-30-2018 02:09 PM |
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EmeryZach
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RE: LaSalle rumor
(01-30-2018 01:21 PM)_C2_ Wrote: (01-30-2018 11:16 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: (01-30-2018 11:10 AM)Cyniclone Wrote: So how much does the A-10 have to lose before expansion is necessary? Even if they lost LaSalle to a downgrade, UMass to the AAC and Dayton+St. Louis to the Big East, they'd still have 10 schools and a smaller footprint. Would they stand pat even then? Or do they feel the need to get back to 12?
If they lost Dayton, LaSalle, St Louis, and UMass...
My guess is that the league would might try to retain some sort of local-ish rival for the benefit of URI.
UMass to the AAC is not happening anytime soon.
----
Losing Dayton, SLU, and LaSalle....might result in 1 or no teams being added.
It'd be UMass to C-USA if anything.
UMass is doing a lot better as an Indy Football team than most people thought. Scheduling games has been easier than expected, and now the FBS has more Indy Football teams for us to schedule (Liberty, NMSU). Obviously having Gillette and Fenway as options for large G5 and P5 schools to come play us has helped a lot. And the big pay day games we have been getting are helping our budget get a little closer to even. And we haven't been getting blown out in those games either. We continue our streak of performing well against SEC teams.
All that being said, once realignment starts up again we will definitely be looking to join a conference for all sports. AAC is where we are gunning for.
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01-30-2018 02:15 PM |
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LostInSpace
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RE: LaSalle rumor
(01-30-2018 02:04 PM)solohawks Wrote: Which A10 school would be in favor of Sienna and Iona, not counting LaSalle?
Rough Count
Solidy Yes: St. Joe's, Duquesne, Fordham, St Bony's,
Likely Yes: GW
Who are the other 4 or 5 that would vote in favor or 2 more small Catholic NY schools?
Among schools that would actually consider joining the A10, look at the historical basketball records, current men’s basketball budget, location in current footprint and attendance / facilities. The A10 is already full of private schools most of which are ... wait for it ... Catholic. Davidson has less than 2,000 undergrads. You can eliminate any school that sponsors scholarship football or scholarship hockey since that is what the A10 does. Guess which two schools rate the highest?
Even if I didn’t have information straight from the office of La Salle’s president, it’s not at all difficult to determine which schools will be at the top of the list. Fairfield was the only (in my mind) outlier from the 2013 list. But if the A10 finds itself in the position of having to choose between Fairfield, Hofstra or expanding the footprint to Charleston to keep the conference alive, the A10 is doomed.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2018 02:27 PM by LostInSpace.)
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01-30-2018 02:23 PM |
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solohawks
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RE: LaSalle rumor
(01-30-2018 02:23 PM)LostInSpace Wrote: (01-30-2018 02:04 PM)solohawks Wrote: Which A10 school would be in favor of Sienna and Iona, not counting LaSalle?
Rough Count
Solidy Yes: St. Joe's, Duquesne, Fordham, St Bony's,
Likely Yes: GW
Who are the other 4 or 5 that would vote in favor or 2 more small Catholic NY schools?
Among schools that would actually consider joining the A10, look at the historical basketball records, current men’s basketball budget, location in current footprint and attendance / facilities. The A10 is already full of private schools most of which are ... wait for it ... Catholic. Davidson has less than 2,000 undergrads. You can eliminate any school that sponsors scholarship football or scholarship hockey since that is what the A10 does. Guess which two schools rate the highest?
Even if I didn’t have information straight from the office of La Salle’s president, it’s not at all difficult to determine which schools will be at the top of the list. Fairfield was the only (in my mind) outlier from the 2013 list. But if the A10 finds itself in the position of having to choose between Fairfield, Hofstra or expanding the footprint to Charleston to keep the conference alive, the A10 is doomed.
you didn't answer the question though. Which 9 or 10 schools would vote Siena, Iona, or Fairfield in?
All previous A10 expansion in recent memory has been, take the best Basketball programs available. If there is not one available, why expand?
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01-30-2018 02:28 PM |
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LostInSpace
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RE: LaSalle rumor
(01-30-2018 02:28 PM)solohawks Wrote: (01-30-2018 02:23 PM)LostInSpace Wrote: (01-30-2018 02:04 PM)solohawks Wrote: Which A10 school would be in favor of Sienna and Iona, not counting LaSalle?
Rough Count
Solidy Yes: St. Joe's, Duquesne, Fordham, St Bony's,
Likely Yes: GW
Who are the other 4 or 5 that would vote in favor or 2 more small Catholic NY schools?
Among schools that would actually consider joining the A10, look at the historical basketball records, current men’s basketball budget, location in current footprint and attendance / facilities. The A10 is already full of private schools most of which are ... wait for it ... Catholic. Davidson has less than 2,000 undergrads. You can eliminate any school that sponsors scholarship football or scholarship hockey since that is what the A10 does. Guess which two schools rate the highest?
Even if I didn’t have information straight from the office of La Salle’s president, it’s not at all difficult to determine which schools will be at the top of the list. Fairfield was the only (in my mind) outlier from the 2013 list. But if the A10 finds itself in the position of having to choose between Fairfield, Hofstra or expanding the footprint to Charleston to keep the conference alive, the A10 is doomed.
you didn't answer the question though. Which 9 or 10 schools would vote Siena, Iona, or Fairfield in?
All previous A10 expansion in recent memory has been, take the best Basketball programs available. If there is not one available, why expand?
They might not expand something I acknowledged two posts ago. Whether they made any replacement(s) depends on how much the conference desires having an even number of teams for scheduling purposes and how many teams they hypothetically lose. The conference prefers having an even number of teams. If they lose an odd number of teams they likely will make a replacement(s).
The A10 has always been aware that it’s a stepping stone confernce. Consequently they’ve made additions with potential of future departures in mind. That’s why Richmond was added as a thirteenth team. The conference office knew VA Tech wasn’t going to stay for long. So any future hypothetical additions are going to be made with an eye toward any hypothetical future defections. That’s the way the A10 has always operated.
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01-30-2018 03:14 PM |
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C2__
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RE: LaSalle rumor
(01-30-2018 01:59 PM)LostInSpace Wrote: (01-30-2018 01:33 PM)_C2_ Wrote: (01-30-2018 11:48 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: UMass has nowhere to go at this time. And failing some playoff run, they won't have a place to go for the foreseeable future. But I'll play along.
IF UMass left, I think the A-10 would want a rival for URI in New England. Vermont is an options. But Burlington, VT is 300 miles from URI. Philadelphia is closer to URI.
Is UMass even close to URI? Without doing a search, I'd think Fordham was more or less the same distance. In such a case, wouldn't the A-10 look at Boston U. as a UMass replacement if need be?
Stop already. UMass and URI are barely more than 100 miles apart. They are each other’s most common opponent by far. BU tried for years to get into the A10. They gave up and joined the Patriot.
BTW, here is the list of schools sponsoring D1 hockey invited to join the A10 since the first defections in the 1970s.
.
.
The only way the A10 gets past Siena and Iona is in the event the conference is collapsing. That’s not likely to happen.
Yeah, I tried to think of it in my head without doing the quick and easy Google search, which isn't always as fun. I was reasonably sure UMass wasn't too far but also know it's roughly two hours from Boston.
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01-30-2018 03:17 PM |
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ken d
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RE: LaSalle rumor
Why would the A-10 even consider adding anybody? They are already too big, and there are zero advantages and a lot of disadvantages to being big in NCAA hoops.
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01-30-2018 03:45 PM |
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