We are 20 games into the season. Andre Jones has the underwhelming averages of 40.5% overall and 15.3% from the arc. We have a key road game that we have a chance to win, and let Wes lets Andre shoot 23 TIMES. He makes a whopping 6 of them. We lose the game. Anyone surprised?

If Andre were shooting 50% overall, or maybe even 33% from the arc, or if we were early in the season, then it might be understandable. But we are two-thirds of the way through the season, and Andre's track record is well known by now. But Wes sits there and lets Andre shoot us out of a win.

Wes, the word is "no." It is not a big word. It is easy to say.

The players are running the show obviously. Wes is a joke and the longer Chasse leaves him as coach the more he looks like a joke as an AD. Enough is enough.

Obviously Wes isn't going anywhere. We don't have anyone to go to in the clutch at this point. Andre is our best athlete, leading scorer, and obviously does not lack in confidence. Not sure who else I would give it to at the end of the game. No one else can get to the rim like he can. I do agree he doesn't need to be jacking up 3's. Reedus and Cocoran appear to be our best outside shooters at this point.

Wes isn't going anywhere and neither is the program. If someone is ice cold you don't let him keep shooting you put him on the bench and give someone else a chance. To do otherwise is piss poor coaching that wouldn't work at any level much less D1. I find it odd that anyone would defend such a move.

(01-25-2018 10:54 PM)UALR92 Wrote:  Wes isn't going anywhere and neither is the program. If someone is ice cold you don't let him keep shooting you put him on the bench and give someone else a chance. To do otherwise is piss poor coaching that wouldn't work at any level much less D1. I find it odd that anyone would defend such a move.

MJS has never seen a Trojan coach that he wouldn't defend for as long as twelve years, well except maybe the three best we've ever had here, Beard, Newell. and Moser. He's criticized them more than the ones who couldn't coach a lick. Some folks are like that, they like a person, and they'll defend them through thick and thin.

The answer Mickey gave is right, Wes isn't going anywhere, probably because Chasse made two mistakes, he hired Beard and gave him two much contract. Hell, he'd probably taken a one year contract to get the head coach job. Maybe if he'd given him the job, and told him we'll see how you do, and at the end of the season, we'll decide if you did well enough to stay. Maybe unheard of in college ball, but I think most assistants would have given it a shot on a one year deal. Trojan Men's basketball has gone to ****.

What do you think Beard would have done with a guy shooting him out of the game?

I'll start off by saying that even though this team is young, Wes has recruited some pretty talented guys. But his coaching... Not there yet.

I feel a sense of knowing that this team can compete which is the only reason why I'm coming to the men's games. And knowing that our two best players (burns and tucker) sit on the bench make me feel better about next year.

Wes however needs to prove he can make this team disciplined in games from now on. if we win, great, if we lose a close one to a top four conference team, that's good too for this team. Wes has the components to start something, he just needs to figure things out and if he can't do so by 2019 he needs to go. (Come back Mark Adams?)

Finally Andre needs to get out of the starting lineup until his shooting is acceptable. Replace him with Corcoran who can prove he can shoot. If wadly plays like that again, think about starting him.

Think about this. Andre scored 15 points on 6-23 shooting. Andre missed 11 layups last night. ELEVEN! That is 22 points missed. But that is if he made them all. He isn't going to make them all because sometimes he is going to the basket and just trying to draw a foul. But still, 11? Finish.

(01-26-2018 12:35 AM)TrojanTeen2 Wrote:  I'll start off by saying that even though this team is young, Wes has recruited some pretty talented guys. But his coaching... Not there yet.

I feel a sense of knowing that this team can compete which is the only reason why I'm coming to the men's games. And knowing that our two best players (burns and tucker) sit on the bench make me feel better about next year.

Wes however needs to prove he can make this team disciplined in games from now on. if we win, great, if we lose a close one to a top four conference team, that's good too for this team. Wes has the components to start something, he just needs to figure things out and if he can't do so by 2019 he needs to go. (Come back Mark Adams?)

Finally Andre needs to get out of the starting lineup until his shooting is acceptable. Replace him with Corcoran who can prove he can shoot. If wadly plays like that again, think about starting him.

Can't disagree with anything you say. We are obviously "competing" with even some of the better conference teams (TxSt. Ga.Sou, GaSt) with our 2 best players sitting on the bench. Wes is keeping Arkansas kids home, that may have gone elsewhere (Ole MIss?) in the past. Losing isn't fun, but I'm sure it's harder on the coaches and players who are giving it their all. Takes some time to build a program- Look at Pennell at UCA. I agree Wes needs to show significant improvement next season. Close won't be enough in season 3. At this point I'm still enjoying watching our young guys grow and improve. I still believe it will pay dividends in the future.

(01-26-2018 01:56 PM)mjs Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 12:35 AM)TrojanTeen2 Wrote:  I'll start off by saying that even though this team is young, Wes has recruited some pretty talented guys. But his coaching... Not there yet.

I feel a sense of knowing that this team can compete which is the only reason why I'm coming to the men's games. And knowing that our two best players (burns and tucker) sit on the bench make me feel better about next year.

Wes however needs to prove he can make this team disciplined in games from now on. if we win, great, if we lose a close one to a top four conference team, that's good too for this team. Wes has the components to start something, he just needs to figure things out and if he can't do so by 2019 he needs to go. (Come back Mark Adams?)

Finally Andre needs to get out of the starting lineup until his shooting is acceptable. Replace him with Corcoran who can prove he can shoot. If wadly plays like that again, think about starting him.

Can't disagree with anything you say. We are obviously "competing" with even some of the better conference teams (TxSt. Ga.Sou, GaSt) with our 2 best players sitting on the bench. Wes is keeping Arkansas kids home, that may have gone elsewhere (Ole MIss?) in the past. Losing isn't fun, but I'm sure it's harder on the coaches and players who are giving it their all. Takes some time to build a program- Look at Pennell at UCA. I agree Wes needs to show significant improvement next season. Close won't be enough in season 3. At this point I'm still enjoying watching our young guys grow and improve. I still believe it will pay dividends in the future.

Bringing Andre off the bench may be a good idea. Wes is in somewhat of a conundrum with Andre. He is clearly our most athletic player, by far. It could be reasonably argued that he is our "best" player. You want to have your best player with the ball and taking shots. You don't want to destroy his confidence (though he does appear to have a lot of that). Not sure of the best way to handle the situation, but getting him to stop shooting 3 pointers (or, at least, so many) might be a place to start. Andre will be an all conference player, but obviously he's not quite there yet.

(01-26-2018 04:31 PM)mjs Wrote:  You want to have your best player with the ball and taking shots.

Not necessarily. He could be your best rebounder, best defender, best ball handler, and thus your best player - and still not a good shooter. Andre has to learn what shots he can hit and what shots he cannot hit, and stick with the ones he can. And Wes has got to enforce that, or Andre will continue to shoot us out of games. He is being allowed to play out of control (remember Marcus Johnson last year?), and the result is the same, but even worse.

I want to be clear: I definitely believe that Andre is a big talent and will be a key for us as long as he is here. I just don't think he can be allowed to use games as practice sessions for his shooting. He needs to be made to stick with what he does well until he learns to do the other things well.

I would tell him he gets to miss one 3-pointer per game. If he hits the first one, as long as he keeps hitting them, he can keep shooting. Otherwise, no more 3-pointers.

I agree with you Pappy. He can't be allowed to shoot us out of games. Limiting his 3 pointers seems like the most reasonable attempt to do this. But, I don't know if you want to hamstring his aggressive, free-wheeling style which makes him such a dangerous offensive player. I just have to believe he is going to learn to finish on those drives to the basket. One more made lay-up, and there's 3 conference games we may well have won.

(01-27-2018 12:35 AM)MICHAELSPAPPY Wrote:  I would tell him he gets to miss one 3-pointer per game. If he hits the first one, as long as he keeps hitting them, he can keep shooting. Otherwise, no more 3-pointers.

That would be pretty restrictive and not likely to make him shoot threes better in my opinion. However, that is not to say he isn't shooting too many threes. A lot of times a three point shooter who isn't hitting threes can sometimes get back in the groove by trying other shots. And when those start falling, go back to trying some threes.

(01-27-2018 11:32 AM)PTJR Wrote:  

(01-27-2018 12:35 AM)MICHAELSPAPPY Wrote:  I would tell him he gets to miss one 3-pointer per game. If he hits the first one, as long as he keeps hitting them, he can keep shooting. Otherwise, no more 3-pointers.

That would be pretty restrictive and not likely to make him shoot threes better in my opinion. However, that is not to say he isn't shooting too many threes. A lot of times a three point shooter who isn't hitting threes can sometimes get back in the groove by trying other shots. And when those start falling, go back to trying some threes.

The question to me is "Is he a 3 point shooter?". Does he light it up in practice? If he does, I can see the coaches giving him leeway in the hope that it eventually translates to game situations. He would be an absolutely devastating offensive weapon with an effective 3 point shot. But, if he is a poor to average 3 point shooter in practice, no way he should be allowed to take so many in games.