(01-24-2018 04:41 PM)tjwillis47 Wrote:  

(01-24-2018 01:18 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(01-24-2018 01:08 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  

(01-24-2018 12:27 PM)Tigx Wrote:  Trading Tyreke is obvious. Not sure why Calkins thought it took an article to show that.

The Grizz traded Courtney Lee and Jeff Green - two vets on expiring contracts - at the trade deadline while in a playoff hunt two years ago. So they will definitely move Tyreke this year while out of the playoffs.

It's what we do in addition to Tyreke.

Tyreke, Wright, and Ennis for draft picks.

Let's hope. Not sure Wright is tradable anymore.

I'd also take back a 2nd year guy who plays the wing, like Luwawu from Philly or Malik Beasley from Denver, in a Tyreke trade.

i think theyre sitting Wright to ensure he is healthy for a possible trade. no need to showcase what he can do. hes been in the league for 10 years. same with Ennis. people know what they will get for them.

NBA GM's aren't going to buy that. Grizz have to show he is healthy. Teams would be trading for BW for 30 more regular season games, not for next year.

Center is such an overloaded position now, so not much demand. Took the 76ers forever to trade Okafor, for instance. Grizz would be better off doing a buyout for BW than taking back salary, if they can't get a 2nd rounder for him.

(01-24-2018 10:00 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  I guess my bigger issue with the "tank" vs. playing the season out is what "tanking" means.

The reality is Memphis will not, no matter if Mike returns and plays out his mind, make the playoffs. Period. End of story.

So, if "tanking" means trading Tyreke for something (since you won't be able to re-sign him in the summer) and let Mike rest and give Marc more days off than usual--that's cool. The last thing the Grizz need is to have Marc get some injury in April from playing too much in a season where they suck.

Give Rabb some run. Let Brooks keep getting quality minutes. Figure out if Selden and McLemore are worth anything.

Yeah Verno means tank in the sense of creating a losing culture. AKA intentionally trying to lose with whatever players are on the court. He makes a lot of good points. Look at the 76ers who we beat mainly with a team full of backups. They've drafted in the lottery for the past who knows how long and what do they have to show for it? One or two of those players might pan out long-term, but geez. Surely they'll make the playoffs in the East this year, but it's debatable if they are better than our collection of backups. We really don't want to be down in the dumps where Philly, Phoenix or the Lakers have been for quite some time.

Look at Sacramento and Orlando. High lottery pick after high lottery pick. Year after year.

Boogie was the Kings best pick, and he's gone. Oladipo was the Magic's best pick, they couldn't develop him, and he's gone.

Stay as good as you can for as long as you can.

(01-24-2018 03:10 PM)fishman6581 Wrote:  

(01-24-2018 01:57 PM)tmoneyinmphs Wrote:  I predicted the grizz to miss the playoffs in 10th place, but they are worse than i thought they would be. A couple posters here said they would still make the playoffs. If i was like salukiblue, i could bump that thread just to pat myself on the back, but that's not my style.

Those vets the grizz released over the summer helped keep the team successful for the last few years, and even they struggled to do that last year due to age. On draft night, i posted the grizz couldn't fill out the roster with 2nd round picks and expect success when the superstar/franchise players (mike/marc) are so weak. That's exactly what they did.

I've been pretty vocal on the grizz board about moving gasol for like at least 2 years and the roster being upside down for the money vs potential.

The grizz could be so much better once they move on from gasol whether that means a trade for another player or picks. However, i don't expect much of a change which is sad. Grizz are stuck with mike and chancun's contracts. Next year could be about the same or maybe they barely make the playoffs and get bounced 1st round. The roster needs some major work.


Zbo should have left memphis years ago when he still had something to offer a real contender. He showed the franchise loyalty instead with his last contract. In return, zbo got disrespected, imo.

I did too, but some of these hooligans were 100% sure we would make them again.

If everyone knew Conley would pretty much be out all year, then I'm sure others would have predicted that as well. With a healthy MC, I'm not sure it's so far fetched.

(01-24-2018 05:21 PM)Tigx Wrote:  Look at Sacramento and Orlando. High lottery pick after high lottery pick. Year after year.

Boogie was the Kings best pick, and he's gone. Oladipo was the Magic's best pick, they couldn't develop him, and he's gone.

Stay as good as you can for as long as you can.

True, but who did Sac put around Boogie that made them a playoff team? They had some good role players, but nobody that could be considered a potential All Star.

Sometimes it's not just getting high lottery pick after high lottery pick. It's about getting players that fit needs. Getting role players to put around your best player or players.

A lot of these teams that Vernon and others point out just surround one high lottery pick with another high lottery pick and another high lottery pick instead of using that pick to fill needs.

Agree, but that's my point. It's not just the Grizz FO with a sketchy draft record. The top guys every year now are Freshman one-and-dones. And they are harder to project and take longer to develop.

(01-24-2018 05:34 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(01-24-2018 05:21 PM)Tigx Wrote:  Look at Sacramento and Orlando. High lottery pick after high lottery pick. Year after year.

Boogie was the Kings best pick, and he's gone. Oladipo was the Magic's best pick, they couldn't develop him, and he's gone.

Stay as good as you can for as long as you can.

True, but who did Sac put around Boogie that made them a playoff team? They had some good role players, but nobody that could be considered a potential All Star.

Sometimes it's not just getting high lottery pick after high lottery pick. It's about getting players that fit needs. Getting role players to put around your best player or players.

A lot of these teams that Vernon and others point out just surround one high lottery pick with another high lottery pick and another high lottery pick instead of using that pick to fill needs.

Also Verno is pointing out how many high lottery guys are either busts or not considered franchise changers. In other words, you're going to miss a lot with those picks. Basically it's fools gold to think just b/c you get a top 5 pick that you're instantly going to be better.

(01-24-2018 05:21 PM)Tigx Wrote:  Look at Sacramento and Orlando. High lottery pick after high lottery pick. Year after year.

Boogie was the Kings best pick, and he's gone. Oladipo was the Magic's best pick, they couldn't develop him, and he's gone.

Stay as good as you can for as long as you can.

That’s because they got rid of everything. Of course we aren’t doing that.

People forget that’s how the Spurs got Tim Duncan. Robinson was hurt and they finished with the 3rd worst record and boom.

It’s not perfect, but people need to understand we got Tyreke for $3.3 million. We aren’t going to probably have the cap space to resign him next year. If we aren’t going to make the playoffs, we don’t know if Conley is going to come back, what’s the point of finishing 10th in the West?

(01-24-2018 05:51 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(01-24-2018 05:34 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(01-24-2018 05:21 PM)Tigx Wrote:  Look at Sacramento and Orlando. High lottery pick after high lottery pick. Year after year.

Boogie was the Kings best pick, and he's gone. Oladipo was the Magic's best pick, they couldn't develop him, and he's gone.

Stay as good as you can for as long as you can.

True, but who did Sac put around Boogie that made them a playoff team? They had some good role players, but nobody that could be considered a potential All Star.

Sometimes it's not just getting high lottery pick after high lottery pick. It's about getting players that fit needs. Getting role players to put around your best player or players.

A lot of these teams that Vernon and others point out just surround one high lottery pick with another high lottery pick and another high lottery pick instead of using that pick to fill needs.

Also Verno is pointing out how many high lottery guys are either busts or not considered franchise changers. In other words, you're going to miss a lot with those picks. Basically it's fools gold to think just b/c you get a top 5 pick that you're instantly going to be better.

You are ignoring the fact that the top 5 vastly outperform the 8-15 picks.

(01-24-2018 11:19 PM)Dylan Wrote:  

(01-24-2018 05:21 PM)Tigx Wrote:  Look at Sacramento and Orlando. High lottery pick after high lottery pick. Year after year.

Boogie was the Kings best pick, and he's gone. Oladipo was the Magic's best pick, they couldn't develop him, and he's gone.

Stay as good as you can for as long as you can.

That’s because they got rid of everything. Of course we aren’t doing that.

People forget that’s how the Spurs got Tim Duncan. Robinson was hurt and they finished with the 3rd worst record and boom.

It’s not perfect, but people need to understand we got Tyreke for $3.3 million. We aren’t going to probably have the cap space to resign him next year. If we aren’t going to make the playoffs, we don’t know if Conley is going to come back, what’s the point of finishing 10th in the West?

Tyreke will be gone, that's not the issue.

There's a Duncan or a Lebron or an Anthony Davis about every 5 years.

Since Duncan, Michael Olowokandi, Kwame Brown, Andrew Bogut, Andrea Bargnani, Greg Oden, Anthony Bennett and now Markelle Fultz have all been the #1 overall pick. It's a crapshoot, even for the #1 pick.

(01-24-2018 11:20 PM)Dylan Wrote:  

(01-24-2018 05:51 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(01-24-2018 05:34 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(01-24-2018 05:21 PM)Tigx Wrote:  Look at Sacramento and Orlando. High lottery pick after high lottery pick. Year after year.

Boogie was the Kings best pick, and he's gone. Oladipo was the Magic's best pick, they couldn't develop him, and he's gone.

Stay as good as you can for as long as you can.

True, but who did Sac put around Boogie that made them a playoff team? They had some good role players, but nobody that could be considered a potential All Star.

Sometimes it's not just getting high lottery pick after high lottery pick. It's about getting players that fit needs. Getting role players to put around your best player or players.

A lot of these teams that Vernon and others point out just surround one high lottery pick with another high lottery pick and another high lottery pick instead of using that pick to fill needs.

Also Verno is pointing out how many high lottery guys are either busts or not considered franchise changers. In other words, you're going to miss a lot with those picks. Basically it's fools gold to think just b/c you get a top 5 pick that you're instantly going to be better.

You are ignoring the fact that the top 5 vastly outperform the 8-15 picks.

Uh huh. Like Thabeet? Or Anthony Bennett? Darko? Even so, I have no clue what this proves. The guys I listed are busts, but what about the guys that aren't busts? So great, they have good stats. But why do they have good stats? For many, it's b/c they're on a garbage team that has no veteran presence so they are relied upon more than they should be. Tyreke is a good example of this. He is a fine player. He even won rookie of the year at the clip of 20/5/5. Great for him, but SAC was bottom of the barrel then and they are still bottom of the barrel 8 years later. No disrespect, I like him a lot, but on a winning team he's just a role player.

Steph Curry, Draymond and Clay Thompson were all chosen outside of the top 5. With the exception of Curry they all went outside the top 10. For every Durant, there are at least 3 Michael Beasley's.

You really aren't trying to argue that getting a 1-5 isn't better than getting a 6-10?

And again, Memphis doesn't have a legit 18 win, lottery type team.

They are a 40-45 win team (maybe better) when healthy and having the opportunity to add an impact player (because this draft is deep) is a fantastic opportunity. They have no 1st round pick in 2019, so this is the opportunity.

They aren't making the playoffs this year, period. So why "try" to win 30 games? Play the rookies. Let Marc rest more often.

(01-25-2018 11:17 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  You really aren't trying to argue that getting a 1-5 isn't better than getting a 6-10?

And again, Memphis doesn't have a legit 18 win, lottery type team.

They are a 40-45 win team (maybe better) when healthy and having the opportunity to add an impact player (because this draft is deep) is a fantastic opportunity. They have no 1st round pick in 2019, so this is the opportunity.

They aren't making the playoffs this year, period. So why "try" to win 30 games? Play the rookies. Let Marc rest more often.

Exactly this. Why is this so hard for people to understand.

Let's look at the past 10 drafts:

2007:
1. Oden
2. Durant
3. Horford
4. Conley
5. Jeff Green
6. Yi Jianlian
7. Corey Brewer
8. Brandan Wright
9. Noah
10. Spencer Hawes

2008:
1. Rose
2. Beasley
3. Westbrook
4. Mayo
5. Love
6. Gallinari
7. Eric Gordon
8. Joe Alexander
9. DJ Augustin
10. Brooke Lopez

2009:
1. Griffin
2. Thabeet
3. Harden
4. Tyreke
5. Rubio
6. Johnny Flynn
7. Steph Curry
8. Jordan Hill
9. Demar Derozan
10. Brandon Jennings

2010:
1. Wall
2. Evan Turner
3. Favors
4. Wesley Johnson
5. Cousins
6. Epke Udoh
7. Greg Monroe
8. Aminu
9. Heyward
10. Paul George

2011: (total slaw draft)
1. Kyrie
2. Derrick Williams
3. Kantner
4. Tristan Thompson
5. Jonas Valanciunas
6. Jan Vessely
7. Bismack Biyambo
8. Brandon Knight
9. Kemba Walker
10. Jimmer


and I'm tired of cutting and pasting but the trend is apparent that there is A LOT better chance of getting a really good player at 1-5 than at 6-10.

When you look at "loaded drafts" like 2014, and even 2015 it shows how much better the performances are of the 1-5 than the 6-10.

This year is particularly special because of the number of bigs out there. The chance to get a Bagley, Porter, Ayton, or Bamba is so much more important than adding Kevin Knox, Trae Young, or Mikal Bridges.

(01-25-2018 11:17 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  You really aren't trying to argue that getting a 1-5 isn't better than getting a 6-10?

And again, Memphis doesn't have a legit 18 win, lottery type team.

They are a 40-45 win team (maybe better) when healthy and having the opportunity to add an impact player (because this draft is deep) is a fantastic opportunity. They have no 1st round pick in 2019, so this is the opportunity.

They aren't making the playoffs this year, period. So why "try" to win 30 games? Play the rookies. Let Marc rest more often.

They are playing the rookies and they might trade Tyreke. From a personnel management standpoint they are tanking. They are letting Mike and Chandler sit. The debate is whether or not you scheme and play hard with what you have. Should we not continue to develop the young talent we have, as opposed to intentionally throwing games? I agree with Verno. I think the guys that are out there should be playing hard and trying to win. It doesn't mean they can or will win.

The bottom line is, we need to draft better; whether that pick is a top 10 pick or top 5. When is the last top 5 pick SA had? They sure had/have a thing going. It's called a system and drafting the right guys to fit your system.

(01-25-2018 11:17 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  You really aren't trying to argue that getting a 1-5 isn't better than getting a 6-10?

And again, Memphis doesn't have a legit 18 win, lottery type team.

They are a 40-45 win team (maybe better) when healthy and having the opportunity to add an impact player (because this draft is deep) is a fantastic opportunity. They have no 1st round pick in 2019, so this is the opportunity.

They aren't making the playoffs this year, period. So why "try" to win 30 games? Play the rookies. Let Marc rest more often.

Players and coaches will always try to win.

The tank, if that's the right name, will happen naturally when Tyreke is moved in two weeks.

In any scenario, it's going to be very hard to get under Orlando, Atlanta and Sacramento. So the odds of a top 3 pick are very low.

(01-25-2018 11:42 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(01-25-2018 11:17 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  You really aren't trying to argue that getting a 1-5 isn't better than getting a 6-10?

And again, Memphis doesn't have a legit 18 win, lottery type team.

They are a 40-45 win team (maybe better) when healthy and having the opportunity to add an impact player (because this draft is deep) is a fantastic opportunity. They have no 1st round pick in 2019, so this is the opportunity.

They aren't making the playoffs this year, period. So why "try" to win 30 games? Play the rookies. Let Marc rest more often.

They are playing the rookies and they might trade Tyreke. From a personnel management standpoint they are tanking. They are letting Mike and Chandler sit. The debate is whether or not you scheme and play hard with what you have. Should we not continue to develop the young talent we have, as opposed to intentionally throwing games? I agree with Verno. I think the guys that are out there should be playing hard and trying to win. It doesn't mean they can or will win.

The bottom line is, we need to draft better; whether that pick is a top 10 pick or top 5. When is the last top 5 pick SA had? They sure had/have a thing going. It's called a system and drafting the right guys to fit your system.

We aren't SA. So let's quit "trying" to be something we are not.

Call it tanking. It's a word.

There is nothing wrong with trading Tyreke for an asset. His salary demands will be too high to keep him.

Conley, by all accounts, still isn't ready to return. So that is moot for now.

Chandler? I have no idea if even playing him would hurt or help.

Memphis has aging and injury prone vets. Getting Rabb, Brooks, Davis, Selden, and McLemore some extra run isn't "tanking" at all--it's getting some experience to figure out which of those pieces are good enough to keep moving forward--an essential component of filling in the gaps of an aging team with only one 1st round pick in the next two years.

The coach on the floor likely won't be the coach next year, so it's not like we're trying to perfect his system. The entire team will be learning a new scheme with new leadership--so the idea that a "winning culture" is lost is misplaced.

Why do some on this thread still think trading Tyreke is in doubt? He will be gone. Only thing in doubt is to whom and what we get back.

The true discussion is what moves the Grizz make beyond the Tyreke trade in the next 2 weeks.

Not sure I understand the “we’re not SA” comment. We should be looking around at the best teams and taking notes on how they did it. Teams that draft in the top 5 year after year are not the types of teams we should be trying to emulate.

(01-25-2018 11:59 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Not sure I understand the “we’re not SA” comment. We should be looking around at the best teams and taking notes on how they did it. Teams that draft in the top 5 year after year are not the types of teams we should be trying to emulate.

Because you have to be who you are. Trying to be someone else when you don't have the knowledge or ability to do so it futile.

Is Golden State trying to be SA? Cleveland? Boston? Houston? OKC?

Nope, and they are doing well.

Why shouldn't Memphis just "be" OKC instead? Or Minnesota? Certainly OKC isn't trying to be SA.

That is the point. San Antonio has succeeded THEIR way, they didn't try to be someone else.