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What was the Southland thinking?!
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: What was the Southland thinking?!
(01-04-2021 01:20 PM)TexasTerror Wrote:  
(01-04-2021 02:59 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Interesting in retrospect. I’m really curious how this is going to work because it sure looks like a travel budget busting nightmare with pretty limited upside. It’s still a one bid league for basketball and none of the top Southland football programs seemed to have trouble getting slots in the FCS playoff. Given the Covid situation—it seems like a potentially expensive scheme with marginal upside at best. From a fan standpoint, the motivation driving this far flung alignment seems ill defined and nebulous.

I think travel issues are being overstated which I have covered elsewhere.

You can keep travel relatively confined to the 'Texas Division' which is all bus rides for the schools in it. The WAC is likely going to modify its scheduling to really keep the travel limited with there really being two separate divisions in most sports featuring true 'conference play' that comes together for a conference championship.

In football, your flying for one conference football game a year to Utah. Most of our schools were flying for a non-conference game or two in football. In most respects, I can see the non-conference games being bus trips to former Southland foes.

As a SHSU fan...

1) I am excited about new opportunities

2) I think there's schools that look & feel more like ours
I feel like there are more schools that are different from yours than there are in the current SLC. GCU, CSU, SU, CBU, and NMSU in the WAC vs HBU and UIW in the SLC.

3) There's a better road from WAC to other conferences, FBSI don't see how being in the WAC would make SHSU or the others anymore appealing to an FBS conference than they currently are. That is on the schools to improve facilities, etc.

4) Significant upside in a sport like men's basketball where you are more likely to get a #12 or #13 seed on an annual basis - better chance for wins, advancement, exposure

5) A league that seems to value access through broadcasting (all the Texas schools have in-house broadcast that can be shown on ESPN3/+; not true of the rest of the SLC)I don't know what the WACs media deal looks like, if they're on ESPN+ or not, but do the WAC schools do any better in this regard? I've don't think I've ever seen a WAC game on TV, but the same can be said for the SLC.

6) Can still maintain the rivalries with the SLC schools (look for Battle of Chief Caddo between SFA/NWST, plus the Lamar/McNeese rivalries to remain in place in football)

7) SHSU / SFA do not need Houston Baptist for Houston exposure. Arguably, both schools get more exposure in Houston without them and the BOTPW will remain in Houston for the forseeable future. SHSU baseball also is routinely playing in Minute Maid Classic (2021 will be the third time if it holds)

8) The Texas 4 are not recruiting student-athletes OR students in general from Louisiana. Playing more games in Texas and parts of Texas will help.Why not recruit Louisiana? They have more talent per capita than any state. And won't you be playing in Texas less now?

9) I think we'll know more when the dominoes fall and this is finalized that will add more to the argument

10) It's not the same old, same old

OK heres a few questions/comments I have regarding your list. Let's see if I can do this right lol. I'm very excited to see how this all plays out.
01-04-2021 03:37 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #42
RE: What was the Southland thinking?!
(01-04-2021 03:16 PM)TexasTerror Wrote:  
(01-04-2021 02:43 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  That said, I suspect your point about better ability to follow the league due to more consistent quality viewing options (ESPN+/digital networks) is quite valid.

I think it's a great point - the WAC has more things together in this regard and it means something. It's absolutely ridiculous that not all Southland basketball games are available on ESPN3, ESPN+.

This is probably a better reason that anything else that's been put out there.
01-04-2021 04:03 PM
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HawaiiMongoose Online
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Post: #43
RE: What was the Southland thinking?!
(01-04-2021 03:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  There are reports that Hawaii could go all sports in the MWC. You get better exposure in the other sports than you get in the Big West.
Long Beach State floated the idea of going to the MWC and football in the past to go MWC for better exposure on tv and all that. MWC gets more money than the Big West.
UC-Riverside looking to drop all sports.
Big West will be hurting without the other three schools. They could pick up and take Seattle, California Baptist as replacement without dipping to D2. That Matt dude was showing that Chicago State, California Baptist and Seattle U. may not be in the WAC much longer. Getting the two outliers on the west coast from the WAC will keep the UC/CSU even numbers.

There are no such reports to my knowledge. And as someone who's been reading the Hawaii, MWC, Big West and CSNBBS Realignment boards pretty much daily for a decade I think any such reports would probably have come to my knowledge.

Occasionally an MWC board poster will argue that Hawaii should be in the conference for all sports or out of the conference entirely, but neither opinion is widely held and such opinions do not constitute reports.

The only other hint of Hawaii playing non-football sports in the MWC has been in conjunction with the current COVID crisis and the consequent cancellation of sports by the Big West. I myself have suggested that Hawaii contact the MWC about playing women's volleyball in the conference this season now that the Big West has pulled the plug on that sport. But it would be for just this season.
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2021 04:51 PM by HawaiiMongoose.)
01-04-2021 04:50 PM
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TOPSTRAIGHT Offline
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Post: #44
RE: What was the Southland thinking?!
Baseball could play the minimum number of conference games to qualify for the NCAA tourney in order to save on travel. Plenty of non-conference foes available for most in the "new" WAC.
01-04-2021 05:06 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #45
RE: What was the Southland thinking?!
(01-04-2021 03:15 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  
(01-04-2021 03:05 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Also, here's a crazy thought.

Missouri State has been seen as one desiring to move to FBS. They are not that far from the TX schools. Add them in the short term and the WAC qualifies for an FCS playoff spot immediately.

FBS is not far away
Correct me if I am wrong, but with the 4 Southland schools, Southern Utah, and Dixie State, the WAC would already qualify for an FCS playoff spot.

Dixie and Tarleton are recent D2 moveups and don't qualify for the FCS playoffs (not until 2024?), so the WAC would only have 5 qualifying schools and would need a 6th for an autobid.
01-04-2021 07:05 PM
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SMUstang Offline
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Post: #46
RE: What was the Southland thinking?!
(01-04-2021 07:05 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(01-04-2021 03:15 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  
(01-04-2021 03:05 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Also, here's a crazy thought.

Missouri State has been seen as one desiring to move to FBS. They are not that far from the TX schools. Add them in the short term and the WAC qualifies for an FCS playoff spot immediately.

FBS is not far away
Correct me if I am wrong, but with the 4 Southland schools, Southern Utah, and Dixie State, the WAC would already qualify for an FCS playoff spot.

Dixie and Tarleton are recent D2 moveups and don't qualify for the FCS playoffs (not until 2024?), so the WAC would only have 5 qualifying schools and would need a 6th for an autobid.
What does FCS football status have to do with autobid? I thought autobid was a basketball term.
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2021 07:28 PM by SMUstang.)
01-04-2021 07:26 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #47
RE: What was the Southland thinking?!
(01-04-2021 07:26 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  
(01-04-2021 07:05 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(01-04-2021 03:15 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  
(01-04-2021 03:05 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Also, here's a crazy thought.

Missouri State has been seen as one desiring to move to FBS. They are not that far from the TX schools. Add them in the short term and the WAC qualifies for an FCS playoff spot immediately.

FBS is not far away
Correct me if I am wrong, but with the 4 Southland schools, Southern Utah, and Dixie State, the WAC would already qualify for an FCS playoff spot.

Dixie and Tarleton are recent D2 moveups and don't qualify for the FCS playoffs (not until 2024?), so the WAC would only have 5 qualifying schools and would need a 6th for an autobid.
What does FCS football status have to do with autobid? I thought autobid was a basketball term.

An autobid to the FCS playoffs.
01-04-2021 07:34 PM
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TexasTerror Offline
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Post: #48
RE: What was the Southland thinking?!
(01-04-2021 07:05 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Dixie and Tarleton are recent D2 moveups and don't qualify for the FCS playoffs (not until 2024?), so the WAC would only have 5 qualifying schools and would need a 6th for an autobid.

This is a lame argument that keeps presenting itself. Very high chance that the NCAA will give two year waivers to WAC for football autobid just like it will to the Southland for the sports about to lose their automatic bid (M/W tennis and M/W golf)
01-04-2021 07:49 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #49
RE: What was the Southland thinking?!
UTRGV starting football would likely be the sixth:

1. Southern Utah
2. Abilene Christian
3. Sam Houston State
4. Stephen F. Austin State
5. Lamar
6. UTRGV
Tarleton State (transitional)
Dixie State (transitional)

It would be nice to see some things moving in Edinburg, but RGV could still sign two classes and load up on transfers for 2022, especially if there's a large number of student athletes with extra eligibility due to COVID-19.
01-04-2021 08:40 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #50
RE: What was the Southland thinking?!
(01-04-2021 04:50 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(01-04-2021 03:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  There are reports that Hawaii could go all sports in the MWC. You get better exposure in the other sports than you get in the Big West.
Long Beach State floated the idea of going to the MWC and football in the past to go MWC for better exposure on tv and all that. MWC gets more money than the Big West.
UC-Riverside looking to drop all sports.
Big West will be hurting without the other three schools. They could pick up and take Seattle, California Baptist as replacement without dipping to D2. That Matt dude was showing that Chicago State, California Baptist and Seattle U. may not be in the WAC much longer. Getting the two outliers on the west coast from the WAC will keep the UC/CSU even numbers.

There are no such reports to my knowledge. And as someone who's been reading the Hawaii, MWC, Big West and CSNBBS Realignment boards pretty much daily for a decade I think any such reports would probably have come to my knowledge.

Occasionally an MWC board poster will argue that Hawaii should be in the conference for all sports or out of the conference entirely, but neither opinion is widely held and such opinions do not constitute reports.

The only other hint of Hawaii playing non-football sports in the MWC has been in conjunction with the current COVID crisis and the consequent cancellation of sports by the Big West. I myself have suggested that Hawaii contact the MWC about playing women's volleyball in the conference this season now that the Big West has pulled the plug on that sport. But it would be for just this season.


The reason is that the Big West makes a lot less money than the MWC for all sports. MWC is an upgrade in all sports for Hawaii.
The WAC is an upgrade in men's basketball from the Southland.
01-04-2021 08:52 PM
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TexasTerror Offline
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Post: #51
RE: What was the Southland thinking?!
Article about Southland future

New name? New league office locale? New schools from D1 or D2 ranks?

https://www.americanpress.com/sports/sou...97847.html
01-11-2021 04:04 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #52
RE: What was the Southland thinking?!
Quote: Sources say adding teams from other FCS conferences or inviting schools from the D-II level are options, as is the renaming of the Southland itself to give the league a fresh identity.

"I look at this as a great opportunity for our conference to rebrand itself and recreate itself," said McNeese Athletic Director Heath Schroyer, who doubles as the school's men's basketball coach.

The real issue is which schools could join a new-look Southland.

"We have to bring in schools that play football," said Burckel. "But we have to bring in the right institutions that will allow our league to grow and want to be a part of what we are building."
01-11-2021 04:24 PM
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solohawks Online
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Post: #53
RE: What was the Southland thinking?!
(01-11-2021 04:24 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
Quote: Sources say adding teams from other FCS conferences or inviting schools from the D-II level are options, as is the renaming of the Southland itself to give the league a fresh identity.

"I look at this as a great opportunity for our conference to rebrand itself and recreate itself," said McNeese Athletic Director Heath Schroyer, who doubles as the school's men's basketball coach.

The real issue is which schools could join a new-look Southland.

"We have to bring in schools that play football," said Burckel. "But we have to bring in the right institutions that will allow our league to grow and want to be a part of what we are building."

Safe bet that any expansion candidates will be outside of the state of LA.

The only potential NCAA upgrade in LA is D3 Centenary and they don't play football. The NAIA schools in LA don't play football either.
01-11-2021 04:40 PM
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TexasTerror Offline
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Post: #54
RE: What was the Southland thinking?!
Southland announces hiring of outside group regarding future alignment

https://www.southland.org/news/2021/1/11...ation.aspx
01-11-2021 06:00 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #55
RE: What was the Southland thinking?!
(01-11-2021 04:40 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-11-2021 04:24 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
Quote: Sources say adding teams from other FCS conferences or inviting schools from the D-II level are options, as is the renaming of the Southland itself to give the league a fresh identity.

"I look at this as a great opportunity for our conference to rebrand itself and recreate itself," said McNeese Athletic Director Heath Schroyer, who doubles as the school's men's basketball coach.

The real issue is which schools could join a new-look Southland.

"We have to bring in schools that play football," said Burckel. "But we have to bring in the right institutions that will allow our league to grow and want to be a part of what we are building."

Safe bet that any expansion candidates will be outside of the state of LA.

The only potential NCAA upgrade in LA is D3 Centenary and they don't play football. The NAIA schools in LA don't play football either.

If Jacksonville St and Eastern Kentucky do head to the Atlantic Sun, any chance the Southland could pick up OVC schools or could the OVC pick up Southland schools?
01-12-2021 01:07 AM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #56
RE: What was the Southland thinking?!
I'm not sure who is willing to leave the OVC, but by geography, the first choices have to be Southeast Missouri State, Tennesse-Martin, and Austin Peay. Losing Central Arkansas hurts big time with regards to expanding northeast.

Even without Jacksonville State and Eastern Kentucky, I think the OVC is still attractive for Western Illinois. Even in the worst case where the OVC goes down four and loses Belmont and Murray State as well, the OVC could line up nicely by adding Western Illinois and Southern Indiana:

Football (7) - SEMO, UTM, APSU, TSU, TTU, EIU, WIU
Non-football/Pioneer (3) - Morehead, SIUE, USI

Southland needs to get Central Oklahoma and Arkansas Tech. Oral Roberts might be attainable, if WIU leaves the Summit.
01-12-2021 01:53 AM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #57
RE: What was the Southland thinking?!
OVC geography just isn’t compatible with Southland geography.

SEMO’s closest Southland school would be SELA at 7.5 hours.

APSU’s closest Southland school would be SELA at 8 hours.

Oral Roberts left the Southland because they were supposedly going to be put in a division with the LA schools — the schools who bolted are who ORU wanted a division with.

Southland has to look at Arkansas Tech or a Lone Star school.
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2021 02:28 AM by IWokeUpLikeThis.)
01-12-2021 02:26 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #58
RE: What was the Southland thinking?!
Southland plans?

Texas Southern
Prairie View
Southern U.
Grambling State

Midwestern State
Angelo State
Commerce
Kingsville
Central Oklahoma
SE Oklahoma State
NE Oklahoma State
Arkansas Tech
Harding
Missouri Southern State
Delta State
Mississippi College

After that would be slim pickings. UTPB may need a few more years to move up.
01-12-2021 12:53 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #59
RE: What was the Southland thinking?!
(01-12-2021 12:53 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Southland plans?

Texas Southern
Prairie View
Southern U.
Grambling State

Midwestern State
Angelo State
Commerce
Kingsville
Central Oklahoma
SE Oklahoma State
NE Oklahoma State
Arkansas Tech
Harding
Missouri Southern State
Delta State
Mississippi College

After that would be slim pickings. UTPB may need a few more years to move up.

No SWAC team is joining the SLC. Just another example of you making stuff up because it makes sense in one of your fantasies.
01-12-2021 01:16 PM
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AZcats Offline
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Post: #60
RE: What was the Southland thinking?!
(01-12-2021 12:53 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Southland plans?

Texas Southern
Prairie View
Southern U.
Grambling State

Midwestern State
Angelo State
Commerce
Kingsville
Central Oklahoma
SE Oklahoma State
NE Oklahoma State
Arkansas Tech
Harding
Missouri Southern State
Delta State
Mississippi College

After that would be slim pickings. UTPB may need a few more years to move up.

Such a load of cow pie rubbish. I've already said most of why WE ARE NOT GOING D1; so I'll just add the fact that we have not had a full-time AD since August 2019. David keeps adding us to D1 but he is not an athletic fund donor.
01-12-2021 01:54 PM
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