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The Mayor says no more annexations
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BinghamptonNed Offline
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Post: #41
RE: The Mayor says no more annexations
(01-25-2018 12:51 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 12:24 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 12:18 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 12:10 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  
(01-19-2018 07:34 AM)TG4 Wrote:  A walk down Memory Lane....

“Formula For Fairness”

The problem with the sentiment in that article, and the term "Toy Town", is that Germantown (for example) was founded in 1825. Memphis was founded in 1819. At that time, the two towns were a day's horse ride away from each other. The article paints a picture of a bunch of white flight as the birth of these so-called "toy towns", when the truth is, Memphis and Germantown both grew up, grew out, and grew to eventually touch each other.

Germantown wasn’t a “toy town.”

That said, GTown didn’t get a thousand residents until 1960.

The population went from 3,474 in 1970 to 21,467 in 1980. Maybe Gtown’s growth had everything to do with everyone getting rich or something, but it seem to coincide with the bussing plan Memphis City Schools was ordered to implement.

But to make it seem like Germantown grew with Memphis is a disingenuous comment. Germantown grew due to Memphis.

I don't know... We just used a private school instead of moving because of bussing. Well... until I was 10. Then we moved to Germantown in 1977.

The suburbs of Germantown and Bartlett exploded as bussing was implemented.

Collierville exploded because of Nonconnah/Bill Morris and Gtown running out of space. Desoto Country and Tipton County exploded over Shelby County property taxes.

Whatever happened to the proponents of busing? We they ever punished for the destruction they caused?

Were they in cahoots with developers?
How many went to jail?
How many lost their jobs?

I've always wondered but never heard the facts.
01-25-2018 04:30 PM
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geosnooker2000 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: The Mayor says no more annexations
(01-25-2018 12:51 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 12:24 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 12:18 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 12:10 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  
(01-19-2018 07:34 AM)TG4 Wrote:  A walk down Memory Lane....

“Formula For Fairness”

The problem with the sentiment in that article, and the term "Toy Town", is that Germantown (for example) was founded in 1825. Memphis was founded in 1819. At that time, the two towns were a day's horse ride away from each other. The article paints a picture of a bunch of white flight as the birth of these so-called "toy towns", when the truth is, Memphis and Germantown both grew up, grew out, and grew to eventually touch each other.

Germantown wasn’t a “toy town.”

That said, GTown didn’t get a thousand residents until 1960.

The population went from 3,474 in 1970 to 21,467 in 1980. Maybe Gtown’s growth had everything to do with everyone getting rich or something, but it seem to coincide with the bussing plan Memphis City Schools was ordered to implement.

But to make it seem like Germantown grew with Memphis is a disingenuous comment. Germantown grew due to Memphis.

I don't know... We just used a private school instead of moving because of bussing. Well... until I was 10. Then we moved to Germantown in 1977.

The suburbs of Germantown and Bartlett exploded as bussing was implemented.

Collierville exploded because of Nonconnah/Bill Morris and Gtown running out of space. Desoto County and Tipton County exploded over Shelby County property taxes.

But strangely, Fayette County did not. I mean, it grew, but not nearly to the extent that Desoto and Tipton did. I wonder why? Well, I think I might know why. Schools. The public schools in Fayette are horrible. Also, nothing of culture to attract those from the city who "wish" they could have stayed in the city. If you move to Fayette, it is because you love the countryside. At least, that's my impression.
01-25-2018 05:52 PM
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TigerBill Offline
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Post: #43
RE: The Mayor says no more annexations
(01-25-2018 05:52 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 12:51 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 12:24 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 12:18 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 12:10 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  The problem with the sentiment in that article, and the term "Toy Town", is that Germantown (for example) was founded in 1825. Memphis was founded in 1819. At that time, the two towns were a day's horse ride away from each other. The article paints a picture of a bunch of white flight as the birth of these so-called "toy towns", when the truth is, Memphis and Germantown both grew up, grew out, and grew to eventually touch each other.

Germantown wasn’t a “toy town.”

That said, GTown didn’t get a thousand residents until 1960.

The population went from 3,474 in 1970 to 21,467 in 1980. Maybe Gtown’s growth had everything to do with everyone getting rich or something, but it seem to coincide with the bussing plan Memphis City Schools was ordered to implement.

But to make it seem like Germantown grew with Memphis is a disingenuous comment. Germantown grew due to Memphis.

I don't know... We just used a private school instead of moving because of bussing. Well... until I was 10. Then we moved to Germantown in 1977.

The suburbs of Germantown and Bartlett exploded as bussing was implemented.

Collierville exploded because of Nonconnah/Bill Morris and Gtown running out of space. Desoto County and Tipton County exploded over Shelby County property taxes.

But strangely, Fayette County did not. I mean, it grew, but not nearly to the extent that Desoto and Tipton did. I wonder why? Well, I think I might know why. Schools. The public schools in Fayette are horrible. Also, nothing of culture to attract those from the city who "wish" they could have stayed in the city. If you move to Fayette, it is because you love the countryside. At least, that's my impression.

Fayette County is full. There's no room for any more Memphis refugees.
01-25-2018 10:36 PM
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Latilleon Offline
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Post: #44
RE: The Mayor says no more annexations
(01-25-2018 02:11 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  What was wrong with the bussing plan?

What was the solution for people who couldn't afford private schools or moving?

I grew up North of the Mason Dixon so I really never knew anything about it.

Let's start with John Branston.

Quote:How We Got Here
From segregation to integration to disintegration in 40 years.
POSTED BY JOHN BRANSTON ON WED, DEC 1, 2010 AT 10:31 AM

The current brouhaha over city and county schools can be better understood by going back about 40 years.

By 1970, school integration had been the law of the land for 16 years, thanks to Brown v. Topeka Board of Education. But in the South, integration "with all deliberate speed" meant "slow." Memphis began integrating schools one grade at a time in 1961, but housing patterns and a liberal school transfer policy confined most students to de facto segregated schools.

Memphis City Schools reached an all-time high of 148,015 students in 1970. The black-white ratio was 52 percent/48 percent. The next year, two things happened: The U.S. Supreme Court approved busing as a desegregation tool, and voters rejected consolidation of city and county governments.

Two years later, all hell broke loose. U.S. district judge Robert McRae ordered Plan A, which was designed to bus 13,789 students to new schools. About 8,000 white students left the city system. Residents of Frayser buried a school bus. Private religious schools popped up. Determined that there not be a succession of Plans B, C, D, and so on, McRae ordered up Plan Z, which called for busing 39,904 students. Another 20,525 white students left the system, and an untold number fell through the cracks or avoided busing by temporarily moving in with friends or relatives.

The Memphis NAACP argued that Plan Z didn't go far enough, but the Supreme Court upheld it and refused to hear an appeal seeking further desegregation.

In a dissent from one of the federal court rulings, Federal Appeals Court judge Paul Weick wrote, "The average American couple who are raising their children scrape and save money to buy a home in a nice residential neighborhood near a public school. One can imagine their frustration when they find their plans have been destroyed by the judgment of federal courts."

Weick was right. After busing, the Shelby County Schools system, which had only 17,000 students in 1975, began growing to its current enrollment of about 47,000. Memphis City Schools began declining to its current enrollment of about 104,000. DeSoto County school enrollment rose to 31,000.

White enrollment in the city schools went from 48 percent to 7 percent, most of it concentrated in a half-dozen optional schools. Black enrollment in the county schools went from next to nothing to 37 percent. But if Southwind High School and its feeder schools in southeast Shelby County are absorbed by the city, as they are scheduled to be, black enrollment will fall below 10 percent because those schools are nearly all black.

The anomaly of nearly all-black schools in a 37 percent black system was not lost on U.S. district judge Bernice Donald. In 2007, she ordered the county schools to rebalance, but in 2009, she was overruled by an appellate court. The court said the school district has no duty to remedy imbalance caused by demographic factors, annexation, and "voluntary housing choices made by the public."

So school desegregation is against the law, but school self-segregation is not against the law. And self-segregation can be aided and abetted by the careful selection of school sites and the drawing of district boundaries, such as the eastern boundary of Southwind High School at Hacks Cross Road.

Southwind High is an outlier. There are black students in every county school, indeed in every private school. It is a very different world from the 1960s. The proposed Shelby County special school district would set firm boundaries but not exclude anyone from attending the school of their choice by moving around. Without a voting majority, however, there are few if any blacks on the county school board, suburban elected positions, or suburban districts on the Shelby County Commission.

The city system has a remnant of about 7,000 white students. An uncounted number of well-to-do Memphis residents with school-age children, including most of the movers and shakers, send them to private schools in Midtown, East Memphis, or Shelby County. They support the system and the growing number of charter schools with their tax dollars and, sometimes, their philanthropy but not with their children. As school board member the Rev. Kenneth Whalum Jr. has noted, the system is awash with money, more than $1 billion a year from all sources.

Forty years after busing was approved, we have resolved the issue of school desegregation as a legal and practical matter. We have a black system getting blacker and a white system that will get whiter when it sheds its black schools. With special districts and surrendered charters, all we're talking about is who gets the bills.

What was wrong with the busing plan? In my personal opinion, it hurt in two ways as the solution to ending segregation. Firstly, it took black kids from their neighborhood schools which had the problem of being underfunded and didn't provide the quality education that was given in white community schools. In theory you were sending kids to better schools instead of making their schools better. By taking kids from their communities, you had the effect of taking community pride away and neighborhood participation in the educational process. If your community is seven miles from the school the community's children go to, will people from the neighborhood go to football games, carnivals, and Honor Society ceremonies? The other side of it was causing white people to leave the schools where black children were going to be bused. This is why there was "white flight."

What's wrong with the busing plan? If the objective was to get diverse student bodies, why weren't white kids bused to schools in black neighborhoods?

Personally I believe to overcome segregation, the laws should have been removed that disallowed black children from attending all white schools, and funding should have provided to ensure black community schools had the exact same classes and programs that were offered at white schools in more affluent neighborhoods. They should have been required to build the same types of facilities (like gyms, cafeterias, and football stadiums). Take out the separate, but make them legitimately equal.

I don't know what poorer white folks who couldn't afford to move or send their kids to private schools did. My guess is they just went to their neighborhood school, or they sent them to live with family/friends. Maybe some where just home schooled if it was that bad to them. In the initial years of busing, there was diverse student bodies at the schools. But for future generations, white families wouldn't move to the communities where the neighborhood schools had black kids bused in.

BTW, I benefited from busing. I went to a school with more resources than if I had gone to the neighborhood schools. But though I benefited, I have ten peers who were not helped by getting more resources and were still separated from white students because our elementary school changed classes like high school and they separated by assessment test scoring. Because we were bused across town, it was difficult to participate in after school activities. And when we finished with elementary, the junior high was in the community so we ended up back were we started in the first place, at an all black neighborhood school that didn't have as much "stuff" as the junior/senior high school our elementary school fed into. Unless, like me, you transfer into an optional school.

Busing had another effect on me that I never really thought about. A subconscious effect. My habit when school was over was to hit the road as soon as the bell rang. I always left immediately because I had a bus to catch. Now when it was junior high, I was riding MATA, meaning I didn't have to immediately go. But I did. For the rest of my academic career. If I never had been bused, I would have probably gotten used to staying around school taking advantage of programs that I might have enjoyed.

(01-25-2018 04:30 PM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  Whatever happened to the proponents of busing? We they ever punished for the destruction they caused?

Were they in cahoots with developers?
How many went to jail?
How many lost their jobs?

I've always wondered but never heard the facts.

So you are talking about the people who sued so that nefarious proponents of segregation were forced to actually do proactive things to ensure black students received equal opportunity? So you want those people to go to jail?

You tell me Ned, should separate but equal be the legal standard, and not just the current(unofficial) standard?

(01-25-2018 05:52 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  But strangely, Fayette County did not. I mean, it grew, but not nearly to the extent that Desoto and Tipton did. I wonder why? Well, I think I might know why. Schools. The public schools in Fayette are horrible. Also, nothing of culture to attract those from the city who "wish" they could have stayed in the city. If you move to Fayette, it is because you love the countryside. At least, that's my impression.

Because Fayette County is far away from Memphis. Crittenden County had limited growth too because of having to deal with that bridge and the towns not being close to the river. I think Tipton County got people from Millington, Frayser, Raleigh, and Bartlett who were trying to escape property taxes and maybe consolidation.

Schools are what you make them. If people with money who worked in Memphis moved to Oakland to the extent that Oakland needed its own high school, I bet it would be flush with resources to make it an attractive school. It would probably be just like Arlington High School.

Money is really what makes a difference. No only can you pay for the school, you also have more influence on the elected officials who make the decisions if you can afford to fund an opposition campaign as well as move somewhere else.

Fayette County grew 33% between 2000 and 2010. And 13% between 1990 and 2000. It was flat 1980 - 1990. (For comparison, Tipton grew 37% 90-00 and 19% 00-10/Desoto grew 58% 90-00 and 50% 00-10).
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2018 12:02 PM by Latilleon.)
01-26-2018 11:56 AM
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geosnooker2000 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: The Mayor says no more annexations
(01-26-2018 11:56 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 05:52 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  But strangely, Fayette County did not. I mean, it grew, but not nearly to the extent that Desoto and Tipton did. I wonder why? Well, I think I might know why. Schools. The public schools in Fayette are horrible. Also, nothing of culture to attract those from the city who "wish" they could have stayed in the city. If you move to Fayette, it is because you love the countryside. At least, that's my impression.

Because Fayette County is far away from Memphis. Crittenden County had limited growth too because of having to deal with that bridge and the towns not being close to the river. I think Tipton County got people from Millington, Frayser, Raleigh, and Bartlett who were trying to escape property taxes and maybe consolidation.

Schools are what you make them. If people with money who worked in Memphis moved to Oakland to the extent that Oakland needed its own high school, I bet it would be flush with resources to make it an attractive school. It would probably be just like Arlington High School.

Money is really what makes a difference. Not only can you pay for the school, you also have more influence on the elected officials who make the decisions if you can afford to fund an opposition campaign as well as move somewhere else.

Fayette County grew 33% between 2000 and 2010. And 13% between 1990 and 2000. It was flat 1980 - 1990. (For comparison, Tipton grew 37% 90-00 and 19% 00-10/Desoto grew 58% 90-00 and 50% 00-10).

First of all, thank you for taking the time to parse out your thoughts on this subject. It is not lost on me that you spent time and energy on this response. And I learned a little I did not know.

My only argument with anything you put forth is the money thing. I sent all 3 of my kids to private school in Fayette Co. I thought it was expensive, but worth it. That is until I started looking into the government spending on education. According to Zillow, Fayette County School system spends $7220 per student. That is roughly what tuition is at Fayette Academy, Rossville Acadamy, most of your lower-end private schools. I understand that the spending per student is even higher (much higher) in Shelby County/Memphis City.

If the money is relatively the same, it has to be something else. If you REALLY think that it is amenities, and kids don't have working air-conditioning in August and September (Lord knows I sure had a tough time concentrating @ Germantown high where we did not have air-conditioning in most of the classrooms), then the answer is money grabbing, pocket-lining, embezzling corruption. And I would not doubt that for a second.

However, I think that ignores a bigger problem. As hard as this fact is to accept, accept it we must if we are to fix the problem. Inner-city parents who are not educated enough to help their young children to learn to read and write at home along with the help at school. Worse than that, parents who are actually hostile to the thought of their children becoming "educated". I'm not saying every black, brown, or poor white parent is like this, but enough of them to cause a ripple effect by the time their children co-mingle in 4th 5th 6th grades and middle school.

Of course, the other problem is absentee parents through no fault of their own. The single parent who has to work 2 jobs, and simply is not there to help with homework, etc.
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2018 01:41 PM by geosnooker2000.)
01-26-2018 01:38 PM
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MemTigers1998 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: The Mayor says no more annexations
(01-25-2018 10:36 PM)TigerBill Wrote:  Fayette County is full. There's no room for any more Memphis refugees.

This.

The 55 people per sq mile density is a bit clustered, but it sure beats the hell out of the 1200+/ sq mile in Shelby.
01-26-2018 04:50 PM
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AlonsoWDC Offline
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Post: #47
RE: The Mayor says no more annexations
Only thing Fayette County is full of is a bunch of sh*t and bullsh*tters.
01-26-2018 07:51 PM
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TigerBill Offline
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Post: #48
RE: The Mayor says no more annexations
(01-26-2018 07:51 PM)AlonsoWDC Wrote:  Only thing Fayette County is full of is a bunch of sh*t and bullsh*tters.

03-lmfao Excellent! Spread that word as far and wide as you can.
01-27-2018 10:11 AM
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AlonsoWDC Offline
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Post: #49
RE: The Mayor says no more annexations
Will do.

All the exurban transplants in the world couldn't save it anyway.
01-27-2018 07:39 PM
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TigerBill Offline
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Post: #50
RE: The Mayor says no more annexations
(01-27-2018 07:39 PM)AlonsoWDC Wrote:  Will do.

All the exurban transplants in the world couldn't save it anyway.

Perfect. I couldn't agree more.
01-28-2018 12:01 AM
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AlonsoWDC Offline
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Post: #51
RE: The Mayor says no more annexations
You and Geo are two of the good ones, though.
01-28-2018 12:12 AM
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TallTiger Offline
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Post: #52
RE: The Mayor says no more annexations
A lot of people have moved outside of Shelby County due to the big property tax hikes over the last 15 to 20 years. First, it was Memphis, people moved to the suburbs but in Shelby County. Then when the county taxes went up, the move was to the county next door.
01-28-2018 12:50 AM
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AlonsoWDC Offline
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Post: #53
RE: The Mayor says no more annexations
Fayette County, and a lot of its development, isn't THAT far from Memphis. Property taxes are cheaper and on the surface, you would think people would flock there in droves in the latest round of white flight.

While it has seen growth since 2000, it is nothing compared to what it should get. One wonders why.
01-28-2018 03:26 AM
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BinghamptonNed Offline
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RE: The Mayor says no more annexations
(01-28-2018 03:26 AM)AlonsoWDC Wrote:  Fayette County, and a lot of its development, isn't THAT far from Memphis. Property taxes are cheaper and on the surface, you would think people would flock there in droves in the latest round of white flight.

While it has seen growth since 2000, it is nothing compared to what it should get. One wonders why.

schools suck, some people find it too far out.
01-28-2018 10:15 AM
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BinghamptonNed Offline
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Post: #55
RE: The Mayor says no more annexations
(01-26-2018 11:56 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  
(01-25-2018 02:11 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  What was wrong with the bussing plan?

What was the solution for people who couldn't afford private schools or moving?

I grew up North of the Mason Dixon so I really never knew anything about it.

Let's start with John Branston.

Quote:How We Got Here
From segregation to integration to disintegration in 40 years.
POSTED BY JOHN BRANSTON ON WED, DEC 1, 2010 AT 10:31 AM

The current brouhaha over city and county schools can be better understood by going back about 40 years.

By 1970, school integration had been the law of the land for 16 years, thanks to Brown v. Topeka Board of Education. But in the South, integration "with all deliberate speed" meant "slow." Memphis began integrating schools one grade at a time in 1961, but housing patterns and a liberal school transfer policy confined most students to de facto segregated schools.

Memphis City Schools reached an all-time high of 148,015 students in 1970. The black-white ratio was 52 percent/48 percent. The next year, two things happened: The U.S. Supreme Court approved busing as a desegregation tool, and voters rejected consolidation of city and county governments.

Two years later, all hell broke loose. U.S. district judge Robert McRae ordered Plan A, which was designed to bus 13,789 students to new schools. About 8,000 white students left the city system. Residents of Frayser buried a school bus. Private religious schools popped up. Determined that there not be a succession of Plans B, C, D, and so on, McRae ordered up Plan Z, which called for busing 39,904 students. Another 20,525 white students left the system, and an untold number fell through the cracks or avoided busing by temporarily moving in with friends or relatives.

The Memphis NAACP argued that Plan Z didn't go far enough, but the Supreme Court upheld it and refused to hear an appeal seeking further desegregation.

In a dissent from one of the federal court rulings, Federal Appeals Court judge Paul Weick wrote, "The average American couple who are raising their children scrape and save money to buy a home in a nice residential neighborhood near a public school. One can imagine their frustration when they find their plans have been destroyed by the judgment of federal courts."

Weick was right. After busing, the Shelby County Schools system, which had only 17,000 students in 1975, began growing to its current enrollment of about 47,000. Memphis City Schools began declining to its current enrollment of about 104,000. DeSoto County school enrollment rose to 31,000.

White enrollment in the city schools went from 48 percent to 7 percent, most of it concentrated in a half-dozen optional schools. Black enrollment in the county schools went from next to nothing to 37 percent. But if Southwind High School and its feeder schools in southeast Shelby County are absorbed by the city, as they are scheduled to be, black enrollment will fall below 10 percent because those schools are nearly all black.

The anomaly of nearly all-black schools in a 37 percent black system was not lost on U.S. district judge Bernice Donald. In 2007, she ordered the county schools to rebalance, but in 2009, she was overruled by an appellate court. The court said the school district has no duty to remedy imbalance caused by demographic factors, annexation, and "voluntary housing choices made by the public."

So school desegregation is against the law, but school self-segregation is not against the law. And self-segregation can be aided and abetted by the careful selection of school sites and the drawing of district boundaries, such as the eastern boundary of Southwind High School at Hacks Cross Road.

Southwind High is an outlier. There are black students in every county school, indeed in every private school. It is a very different world from the 1960s. The proposed Shelby County special school district would set firm boundaries but not exclude anyone from attending the school of their choice by moving around. Without a voting majority, however, there are few if any blacks on the county school board, suburban elected positions, or suburban districts on the Shelby County Commission.

The city system has a remnant of about 7,000 white students. An uncounted number of well-to-do Memphis residents with school-age children, including most of the movers and shakers, send them to private schools in Midtown, East Memphis, or Shelby County. They support the system and the growing number of charter schools with their tax dollars and, sometimes, their philanthropy but not with their children. As school board member the Rev. Kenneth Whalum Jr. has noted, the system is awash with money, more than $1 billion a year from all sources.

Forty years after busing was approved, we have resolved the issue of school desegregation as a legal and practical matter. We have a black system getting blacker and a white system that will get whiter when it sheds its black schools. With special districts and surrendered charters, all we're talking about is who gets the bills.

What was wrong with the busing plan? In my personal opinion, it hurt in two ways as the solution to ending segregation. Firstly, it took black kids from their neighborhood schools which had the problem of being underfunded and didn't provide the quality education that was given in white community schools. In theory you were sending kids to better schools instead of making their schools better. By taking kids from their communities, you had the effect of taking community pride away and neighborhood participation in the educational process. If your community is seven miles from the school the community's children go to, will people from the neighborhood go to football games, carnivals, and Honor Society ceremonies? The other side of it was causing white people to leave the schools where black children were going to be bused. This is why there was "white flight."

What's wrong with the busing plan? If the objective was to get diverse student bodies, why weren't white kids bused to schools in black neighborhoods?

Personally I believe to overcome segregation, the laws should have been removed that disallowed black children from attending all white schools, and funding should have provided to ensure black community schools had the exact same classes and programs that were offered at white schools in more affluent neighborhoods. They should have been required to build the same types of facilities (like gyms, cafeterias, and football stadiums). Take out the separate, but make them legitimately equal.

I don't know what poorer white folks who couldn't afford to move or send their kids to private schools did. My guess is they just went to their neighborhood school, or they sent them to live with family/friends. Maybe some where just home schooled if it was that bad to them. In the initial years of busing, there was diverse student bodies at the schools. But for future generations, white families wouldn't move to the communities where the neighborhood schools had black kids bused in.

BTW, I benefited from busing. I went to a school with more resources than if I had gone to the neighborhood schools. But though I benefited, I have ten peers who were not helped by getting more resources and were still separated from white students because our elementary school changed classes like high school and they separated by assessment test scoring. Because we were bused across town, it was difficult to participate in after school activities. And when we finished with elementary, the junior high was in the community so we ended up back were we started in the first place, at an all black neighborhood school that didn't have as much "stuff" as the junior/senior high school our elementary school fed into. Unless, like me, you transfer into an optional school.

Busing had another effect on me that I never really thought about. A subconscious effect. My habit when school was over was to hit the road as soon as the bell rang. I always left immediately because I had a bus to catch. Now when it was junior high, I was riding MATA, meaning I didn't have to immediately go. But I did. For the rest of my academic career. If I never had been bused, I would have probably gotten used to staying around school taking advantage of programs that I might have enjoyed.

(01-25-2018 04:30 PM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  Whatever happened to the proponents of busing? We they ever punished for the destruction they caused?

Were they in cahoots with developers?
How many went to jail?
How many lost their jobs?

I've always wondered but never heard the facts.

So you are talking about the people who sued so that nefarious proponents of segregation were forced to actually do proactive things to ensure black students received equal opportunity? So you want those people to go to jail?

You tell me Ned, should separate but equal be the legal standard, and not just the current(unofficial) standard?

(01-25-2018 05:52 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  But strangely, Fayette County did not. I mean, it grew, but not nearly to the extent that Desoto and Tipton did. I wonder why? Well, I think I might know why. Schools. The public schools in Fayette are horrible. Also, nothing of culture to attract those from the city who "wish" they could have stayed in the city. If you move to Fayette, it is because you love the countryside. At least, that's my impression.

Because Fayette County is far away from Memphis. Crittenden County had limited growth too because of having to deal with that bridge and the towns not being close to the river. I think Tipton County got people from Millington, Frayser, Raleigh, and Bartlett who were trying to escape property taxes and maybe consolidation.

Schools are what you make them. If people with money who worked in Memphis moved to Oakland to the extent that Oakland needed its own high school, I bet it would be flush with resources to make it an attractive school. It would probably be just like Arlington High School.

Money is really what makes a difference. No only can you pay for the school, you also have more influence on the elected officials who make the decisions if you can afford to fund an opposition campaign as well as move somewhere else.

Fayette County grew 33% between 2000 and 2010. And 13% between 1990 and 2000. It was flat 1980 - 1990. (For comparison, Tipton grew 37% 90-00 and 19% 00-10/Desoto grew 58% 90-00 and 50% 00-10).

so you think busing was a good idea?
01-28-2018 10:17 AM
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Latilleon Offline
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Post: #56
RE: The Mayor says no more annexations
(01-28-2018 10:17 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  so you think busing was a good idea?

Didn't read what I wrote?

(01-26-2018 11:56 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  What was wrong with the busing plan? In my personal opinion, it hurt in two ways as the solution to ending segregation. Firstly, it took black kids from their neighborhood schools which had the problem of being underfunded and didn't provide the quality education that was given in white community schools. In theory you were sending kids to better schools instead of making their schools better. By taking kids from their communities, you had the effect of taking community pride away and neighborhood participation in the educational process. If your community is seven miles from the school the community's children go to, will people from the neighborhood go to football games, carnivals, and Honor Society ceremonies? The other side of it was causing white people to leave the schools where black children were going to be bused. This is why there was "white flight."

What's wrong with the busing plan? If the objective was to get diverse student bodies, why weren't white kids bused to schools in black neighborhoods?

As the solution for ending segregation, I don't think busing was a good idea. And I was a student who benefited from busing.
01-28-2018 04:47 PM
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karter25 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: The Mayor says no more annexations
(01-28-2018 10:15 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  
(01-28-2018 03:26 AM)AlonsoWDC Wrote:  Fayette County, and a lot of its development, isn't THAT far from Memphis. Property taxes are cheaper and on the surface, you would think people would flock there in droves in the latest round of white flight.

While it has seen growth since 2000, it is nothing compared to what it should get. One wonders why.

schools suck, some people find it too far out.

Big time. Why the county hasn't done a better job improving schools is a mystery. With 385 so close, it is more convenient than ever to come and go.
01-28-2018 05:19 PM
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TigerBill Offline
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Post: #58
RE: The Mayor says no more annexations
(01-28-2018 05:19 PM)karter25 Wrote:  
(01-28-2018 10:15 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  
(01-28-2018 03:26 AM)AlonsoWDC Wrote:  Fayette County, and a lot of its development, isn't THAT far from Memphis. Property taxes are cheaper and on the surface, you would think people would flock there in droves in the latest round of white flight.

While it has seen growth since 2000, it is nothing compared to what it should get. One wonders why.

schools suck, some people find it too far out.

Big time. Why the county hasn't done a better job improving schools is a mystery. With 385 so close, it is more convenient than ever to come and go.

Yes, yes, yes, it's horrible out here. Forget all the major improvements in the schools in the past few years, keep believing what you do. The county is full and can't handle any more Memphis refugees...except maybe a good Italian restaurant. We've got copperheads and coyotes and downright unfriendly people. No electricity, no running water, the streets aren't paved. It's awful.
01-28-2018 06:43 PM
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Redbanksdog Online
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Post: #59
RE: The Mayor says no more annexations
(01-28-2018 04:47 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  
(01-28-2018 10:17 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  so you think busing was a good idea?

Didn't read what I wrote?

(01-26-2018 11:56 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  What was wrong with the busing plan? In my personal opinion, it hurt in two ways as the solution to ending segregation. Firstly, it took black kids from their neighborhood schools which had the problem of being underfunded and didn't provide the quality education that was given in white community schools. In theory you were sending kids to better schools instead of making their schools better. By taking kids from their communities, you had the effect of taking community pride away and neighborhood participation in the educational process. If your community is seven miles from the school the community's children go to, will people from the neighborhood go to football games, carnivals, and Honor Society ceremonies? The other side of it was causing white people to leave the schools where black children were going to be bused. This is why there was "white flight."

What's wrong with the busing plan? If the objective was to get diverse student bodies, why weren't white kids bused to schools in black neighborhoods?

As the solution for ending segregation, I don't think busing was a good idea. And I was a student who benefited from busing.

Latt you said "What's wrong with the busing plan? If the objective was to get diverse student bodies, why weren't white kids bused to schools in black neighborhoods"?

You're wrong on that part; I was bused my senior year of high school (1975) to Southside High. I remember counting the number of white kids one day and came up with 15. At that time Southside was in a black neighborhood and after ball practice; I would walk out of the neighborhood to HWY 51 and hitchhike home. I bet I couldn't do that now.

I will say this, Southside was a pretty good school and I had a great time.
01-28-2018 07:07 PM
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BinghamptonNed Offline
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Post: #60
RE: The Mayor says no more annexations
(01-28-2018 04:47 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  
(01-28-2018 10:17 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  so you think busing was a good idea?

Didn't read what I wrote?

(01-26-2018 11:56 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  What was wrong with the busing plan? In my personal opinion, it hurt in two ways as the solution to ending segregation. Firstly, it took black kids from their neighborhood schools which had the problem of being underfunded and didn't provide the quality education that was given in white community schools. In theory you were sending kids to better schools instead of making their schools better. By taking kids from their communities, you had the effect of taking community pride away and neighborhood participation in the educational process. If your community is seven miles from the school the community's children go to, will people from the neighborhood go to football games, carnivals, and Honor Society ceremonies? The other side of it was causing white people to leave the schools where black children were going to be bused. This is why there was "white flight."

What's wrong with the busing plan? If the objective was to get diverse student bodies, why weren't white kids bused to schools in black neighborhoods?

As the solution for ending segregation, I don't think busing was a good idea. And I was a student who benefited from busing.

You are right it was a terrible idea, the people that came up with it should have lost their jobs and never have a position in "public service" ever again.

The solution was to equalize all schools and to integrate the schools by drawing new lines that balance the races as much as possible while keeping neighborhood-ish schools, busing kids across town was a ludicrous idea. Not allowing an american citizen to attend a school based on their race or ethnicity is insane
01-28-2018 10:23 PM
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