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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Superconference Scenarios
(02-10-2018 10:45 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  If the B1G had picked up the rest of the old Big East northeastern schools, I wonder if they would've had a chance at Notre Dame? They also should've picked up Missouri.

West: Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin
Central: Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Ohio St
East: Michigan St, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, Boston College

Where's Penn State?

I don't know if they would have gone for BC. Granted, ND is not AAU either, but they bring enough to the table for the conference to overlook that.
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2018 11:15 PM by Nerdlinger.)
02-10-2018 11:14 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Superconference Scenarios
I never believed three divisions could ever work. I said: "there just aren't enough potential games left to hold more postseason match-ups to include a conference semi-final."

Well, maybe it can work. For three divisions to work: three division champs plus a wildcard, and that's an extra game on top of 12 regular season, plus bowl and a possible CCG. It can only work without expanding the playoffs. Logistically, I'm not opposed to it, because you could have uneven divisions:

ACC

Yankee
BC
Syracuse
Pitt
Louisville

Tobacco
UVA
VT
UNC
NC State
Duke
Wake

Magnolia
Clemson
GT
FSU
Miami

Every school plays their division (plus however many opponents it takes to get to eight) and I think they could get around the rule. Semis on campus, or wherever the school designates their home field. Finals are held in Charlotte or wherever. No need to add a bunch more schools to make this happen. The Big XII is onto something, let's take it to the next level.

* Ignore the division names. I was feeling nostalgic and named the divisions like old bowl games.
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2018 12:01 AM by esayem.)
02-10-2018 11:54 PM
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ken d Online
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Post: #23
RE: Superconference Scenarios
I start out by creating a super SEC, with four divisions:

Northeast: Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Louisville, Kentucky, Virginia Tech, Virginia and Miami

Atlantic Coast: Duke, North Carolina, NC State, Wake Forest, Clemson, South Carolina, Georgia, Georgia Tech and Florida

Southeast: Florida State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, LSU and Arkansas

Southwest: Missouri, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, TCU and Baylor

I would determine the conference champion by a tournament as follows:

The four division winners are seeded #1-4, using some existing agreed upon metric. The second place finishers in each division are seeded #5-8. Using that same metric, the eight best teams are chosen from among the remaining 28 teams plus Notre Dame, (which is a member for all other sports) and seeded #9-16.

Seeds 1-8 host seeds 9-16 in the usual format in the week after Thanksgiving. The following week, the four highest seed winners host the other four winners. These quarterfinal winners will go on to play in the semifinals on or around New Years day at the Peach Bowl and Cotton Bowl, with the finals to be held on a rotating basis at the Sugar, Orange and Fiesta Bowls. The 3 Finals sites continue to stage their annual New Year's Bowl games, with at least one invitee to come from the SEC Superconference.

I don't care how the remaining 93 FBS schools are organized.
02-11-2018 07:19 AM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Superconference Scenarios
(02-10-2018 10:45 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(02-10-2018 07:48 PM)esayem Wrote:  The Big 10 should have gone after Syracuse and Kansas when they had the chance and left Maryland and Rutgers alone.

Syracuse
Penn State
OSU
Michigan
MSU
Indiana
Purdue

Illinois
Northwestern
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Nebraska
Kansas
Iowa

Seems Rutgers was always on the B1G radar though.

If the B1G had picked up the rest of the old Big East northeastern schools, I wonder if they would've had a chance at Notre Dame? They also should've picked up Missouri.

West: Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin
Central: Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Ohio St
East: Michigan St, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, Boston College


No.
02-11-2018 08:54 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Superconference Scenarios
The concept of four super-conferences is dying if not dead already.
02-11-2018 12:58 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Superconference Scenarios
(02-11-2018 12:58 PM)XLance Wrote:  The concept of four super-conferences is dying if not dead already.

You're correct, it may only be 3 or even 2 in the end.
02-11-2018 01:10 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Superconference Scenarios
(02-11-2018 01:10 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(02-11-2018 12:58 PM)XLance Wrote:  The concept of four super-conferences is dying if not dead already.

You're correct, it may only be 3 or even 2 in the end.

........and it could stay at 5 for a while.
But in the end we will have two leagues that are made up of a couple of divisions that could have two or three conferences each.

Smaller units will provide more inventory.
02-11-2018 01:19 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Superconference Scenarios
[Image: xr5QgWo.jpg]

07-coffee3
02-11-2018 05:54 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Superconference Scenarios
(02-11-2018 05:54 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  [Image: xr5QgWo.jpg]

07-coffee3

Sure, but "wasted time" describes all discussions on any discussion board.
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2018 06:19 PM by Nerdlinger.)
02-11-2018 06:17 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Superconference Scenarios
(02-11-2018 06:17 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-11-2018 05:54 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  [Image: xr5QgWo.jpg]

07-coffee3

Sure, but "wasted time" describes all discussions on any discussion board.

Agreed. Nothing on this board really means anything. Everything but statements from schools, conferences, the NCAA, or any official person is creative conjecture. It’s all a waste of time if that statement is true.
02-11-2018 10:16 PM
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Post: #31
RE: Superconference Scenarios
The one thing that I don't get is why people think that the PAC-12 would be disloyal enough to basically disform and leave out 2 members that have been playing together for basically over 100 years. The PAC-8 schools (California, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, USC, UCLA, Washington, and Washington State) have been playing together since the formation of the Pacific Coast Conference in 1928 (The PCC was formed by California, Washington, Oregon, and Oregon State in 1915, Washington State joined 1917, Stanford in 1918, USC in 1922, and UCLA in 1928). The only exception is when the PCC collapsed in 1959, and then it took them 5 years for all 8 of these schools to form and join the American Association of Western Universities, which then got nicknamed the Big-5, then Big-6, and then finally PAC-8.

Yet, I see people having dreams that all of a sudden Oregon State and Washington State would be abandoned by schools, or kicked out. I just don't get it.
02-11-2018 10:56 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Superconference Scenarios
(02-11-2018 10:56 PM)dunstvangeet Wrote:  The one thing that I don't get is why people think that the PAC-12 would be disloyal enough to basically disform and leave out 2 members that have been playing together for basically over 100 years. The PAC-8 schools (California, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, USC, UCLA, Washington, and Washington State) have been playing together since the formation of the Pacific Coast Conference in 1928 (The PCC was formed by California, Washington, Oregon, and Oregon State in 1915, Washington State joined 1917, Stanford in 1918, USC in 1922, and UCLA in 1928). The only exception is when the PCC collapsed in 1959, and then it took them 5 years for all 8 of these schools to form and join the American Association of Western Universities, which then got nicknamed the Big-5, then Big-6, and then finally PAC-8.

Yet, I see people having dreams that all of a sudden Oregon State and Washington State would be abandoned by schools, or kicked out. I just don't get it.

It goes with the territory. The Big East folks, the ACC folks and the Big 12 folks all know this. When speculation over the PAC starts the lowest producers are always going to be the victims of the new scenarios. There's nothing to get. It simply will be what people say.
02-11-2018 11:08 PM
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Post: #33
RE: Superconference Scenarios
(02-11-2018 11:08 PM)JRsec Wrote:  It goes with the territory. The Big East folks, the ACC folks and the Big 12 folks all know this. When speculation over the PAC starts the lowest producers are always going to be the victims of the new scenarios. There's nothing to get. It simply will be what people say.
True, however, to state that the 6 "popular" schools will just abandon Oregon and Oregon State, when they've associated themselves in the same conference for over 90 years (100 for most of them) is just redicilious. Even when the conference imploded in 1959, it only took 5 years before these 8 teams were back playing in the same conference.

I don't see the PAC-12 as that unstable. In fact, I actually saw the push for 16 members as basically a strengthening of that old PAC-8 relationship. The PAC-12, the Big Ten, and the SEC are probably the most stable of conferences. Nobody's going to actually poach the PAC-12 (somewhat because of geography, but also somewhat because of that stability I was talking about earlier).
02-12-2018 12:13 AM
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Post: #34
RE: Superconference Scenarios
An interesting exercise could be instead of splitting into a P65 and G65, splitting into 3 groups instead.

The Big 48
USC, UCLA, Cal, Stan, Oregon, Wash, Ariz, Ariz St,
Utah, Col, Tex, Oklahoma, Kansas, Neb, Mizzou, Arky
Iowa, Minn, Wisc, ILL, Mich, Mich St, Ohio St, Indy
Notre Dame, Penn St, MD, Va, VT, UNC, NCSU, Duke
Clem, S. CAR, Florida, Flor St, Miami, GT, Lou, Pur
Bama, Auburn, Tenn, Ky, Ga, Ole Miss, LSU, Texas A&M

Middle 40
Ore. St, Wash St, BYU, Hawaii, San Diego St, Fresno St, Boise St, UNLV
AFA, Navy, Col St, New Mex, Hou, SMU, Tulsa, Rice
Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Okie St, Kansas St, Iowa St, Miss St, NW
Rut, WV, Cuse, Pitt, BC, UConn, Cincy, Temple
Wake, Vandy, Memphis, Tulane, ECU, UCF, USF, USM

Bottom 42
SJSU, Nevada, USU, Wyoming, NMSU, UTEP, UTSA, Tex ST
North Tex, Ark St, La Tech, La-Mo, La-La, USA, Troy, UAB
FIU, FAU, Charlotte, ODU, MTSU, WKY, Marshal, Army
Ga St, Ga So, Liberty, UMass, CCU, App St
NIU, WMU, CMU, EMU, Ball St, TOL
Akron, Ohio, Miami-OH, Buf, BGSU, Kent St

Movind down: Idaho
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2018 11:46 AM by goofus.)
02-12-2018 11:45 AM
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ken d Online
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Post: #35
RE: Superconference Scenarios
I don't believe we will ever have what one might call "superconferences" or "megaconferences". I think 18 is the limit, and depending on what Oklahoma and Texas prefer to do there might only be one of those.

For this exercise, I'm going to assume (without any actual knowledge of what they want) they both want to go to the B1G, and that the B1G will have them and will accept two more to make that happen. I'm also going to assume that ESPN will either allow or encourage movement from the ACC to the SEC, and will negotiate whatever is needed to make that possible.

Then my two 18 team conferences are:

B1G East: Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers, Indiana, Purdue and Illinois.

B1G West: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St and Texas.

SEC East: Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Florida State, Clemson, Virginia Tech and NC State.

SEC West: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Mississippi St, Vanderbilt, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri and Texas A&M.

These four divisions will all play a balanced 8 game schedule, and will schedule any rivalry opponents from the other division in their conference as part of their OOC schedule. The only two such rivalries that come readily to mind are Auburn-Georgia and Tennessee-Vanderbilt.

The remaining ACC teams stay together as a single 10 team conference with a full round robin schedule plus Notre Dame, which plays half of them one year and the other half the next.

The remnants of the Big 12 rebuild from the AAC western teams, with West Virginia moving to the AAC. The net result is two geographically logical 9 team conferences (with Wichita State going with the Big 12).

The end result is 3 very strong (I won't say "Power") conferences, 3 Tweener conferences, and 4 relatively weak conferences.
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2018 01:26 PM by ken d.)
02-12-2018 01:11 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Superconference Scenarios
(02-12-2018 01:11 PM)ken d Wrote:  I don't believe we will ever have what one might call "superconferences" or "megaconferences". I think 18 is the limit, and depending on what Oklahoma and Texas prefer to do there might only be one of those.

For this exercise, I'm going to assume (without any actual knowledge of what they want) they both want to go to the B1G, and that the B1G will have them and will accept two more to make that happen. I'm also going to assume that ESPN will either allow or encourage movement from the ACC to the SEC, and will negotiate whatever is needed to make that possible.

Then my two 18 team conferences are:

B1G East: Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers, Indiana, Purdue and Illinois.

B1G West: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St and Texas.

SEC East: Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Florida State, Clemson, Virginia Tech and NC State.

SEC West: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Mississippi St, Vanderbilt, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri and Texas A&M.

These four divisions will all play a balanced 8 game schedule, and will schedule any rivalry opponents from the other division in their conference as part of their OOC schedule. The only two such rivalries that come readily to mind are Auburn-Georgia and Tennessee-Vanderbilt.

The remaining ACC teams stay together as a single 10 team conference with a full round robin schedule plus Notre Dame, which plays half of them one year and the other half the next.

The remnants of the Big 12 rebuild from the AAC western teams, with West Virginia moving to the AAC. The net result is two geographically logical 9 team conferences (with Wichita State going with the Big 12).

The end result is 3 very strong (I won't say "Power") conferences, 3 Tweener conferences, and 4 relatively weak conferences.

At that point, ND probably parts ways with the ACC. They can hook up with the Big East again and retain a fully independent football schedule. Maybe they'd try to establish a partial football schedule with the Big Ten to replace the ACC games. Then they'd have easier access to traditional rivals such as Michigan, Michigan State, and Purdue, while still being able to play Navy, USC, and Stanford. Of course, if they're smart, they go all in with the Big Ten, and Okie Jr. can forget about an invite (not that the Cowboys would have been invited in the first place).

Also, in your scenario, WVU is sticking with the Big 12 except on the off chance that the ACC invites them.
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2018 01:44 PM by Nerdlinger.)
02-12-2018 01:37 PM
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ken d Online
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Post: #37
RE: Superconference Scenarios
Now that I've completely changed the competitive balance of power in the FBS (see Post #35), I should offer suggestions for changes to the CFP system as well.

For CFP and NY6 purposes, I would treat any division with 9 or more members as if it were a distinct conference. Thus, we would have 12 such conferences.

First, I would replace the selection committee with a combination of polls/rating sytems like what the BCS used. I would use the AP and Coaches' polls, the Massey Composite, plus three or four computer rankings, like Sagarin, Colley, Billingsley, etc. For each school, I would drop their highest ranking and their lowest, then average the rest to arrive at a Composite Score.

The four teams with the best composite score go to the semifinals. The remaining 8 NY6 slots would be decided as follows. The pool of eligible schools would be the champions of all conferences (including 9 team divisions) and all independents. If a conference champion has been selected as a semifinalist, their spot in the pool is taken by the team that finished second in their conference. If two teams from the same conference are selected for the CFP, no other team takes their place.

From that pool, the 8 teams with the best Composite Score go to the NY 6. This method is meant to place emphasis first on actual results in conference play, and only secondary emphasis on polls/ratings. A new committee would now work with the bowls to place the 8 teams to optimize fan attractiveness.

Now that I've done the heavy lifting, somebody else will have to decide how the money for all this gets divided up. I have my own ideas, of course, but some of the schools/conferences might not be inclined to agree.
02-12-2018 01:49 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Superconference Scenarios
(02-12-2018 01:11 PM)ken d Wrote:  I don't believe we will ever have what one might call "superconferences" or "megaconferences". I think 18 is the limit, and depending on what Oklahoma and Texas prefer to do there might only be one of those.

For this exercise, I'm going to assume (without any actual knowledge of what they want) they both want to go to the B1G, and that the B1G will have them and will accept two more to make that happen. I'm also going to assume that ESPN will either allow or encourage movement from the ACC to the SEC, and will negotiate whatever is needed to make that possible.

Then my two 18 team conferences are:

B1G East: Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers, Indiana, Purdue and Illinois.

B1G West: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St and Texas.

SEC East: Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Florida State, Clemson, Virginia Tech and NC State.

SEC West: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Mississippi St, Vanderbilt, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri and Texas A&M.

These four divisions will all play a balanced 8 game schedule, and will schedule any rivalry opponents from the other division in their conference as part of their OOC schedule. The only two such rivalries that come readily to mind are Auburn-Georgia and Tennessee-Vanderbilt.

The remaining ACC teams stay together as a single 10 team conference with a full round robin schedule plus Notre Dame, which plays half of them one year and the other half the next.

The remnants of the Big 12 rebuild from the AAC western teams, with West Virginia moving to the AAC. The net result is two geographically logical 9 team conferences (with Wichita State going with the Big 12).

The end result is 3 very strong (I won't say "Power") conferences, 3 Tweener conferences, and 4 relatively weak conferences.

It would be much more palatable if you swapped Vanderbilt for Louisville and allowed Texas to protect Texas Tech in exchange for Northwestern so that Norte Dame could join full time in a 12 team conference:
Northwestern, Notre Dame, Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Vanderbilt
Miami, UVa, Wake Forest, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2018 01:55 PM by XLance.)
02-12-2018 01:50 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Superconference Scenarios
(02-12-2018 01:50 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 01:11 PM)ken d Wrote:  I don't believe we will ever have what one might call "superconferences" or "megaconferences". I think 18 is the limit, and depending on what Oklahoma and Texas prefer to do there might only be one of those.

For this exercise, I'm going to assume (without any actual knowledge of what they want) they both want to go to the B1G, and that the B1G will have them and will accept two more to make that happen. I'm also going to assume that ESPN will either allow or encourage movement from the ACC to the SEC, and will negotiate whatever is needed to make that possible.

Then my two 18 team conferences are:

B1G East: Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers, Indiana, Purdue and Illinois.

B1G West: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St and Texas.

SEC East: Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Florida State, Clemson, Virginia Tech and NC State.

SEC West: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Mississippi St, Vanderbilt, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri and Texas A&M.

These four divisions will all play a balanced 8 game schedule, and will schedule any rivalry opponents from the other division in their conference as part of their OOC schedule. The only two such rivalries that come readily to mind are Auburn-Georgia and Tennessee-Vanderbilt.

The remaining ACC teams stay together as a single 10 team conference with a full round robin schedule plus Notre Dame, which plays half of them one year and the other half the next.

The remnants of the Big 12 rebuild from the AAC western teams, with West Virginia moving to the AAC. The net result is two geographically logical 9 team conferences (with Wichita State going with the Big 12).

The end result is 3 very strong (I won't say "Power") conferences, 3 Tweener conferences, and 4 relatively weak conferences.

It would be much more palatable if you swapped Vanderbilt for Louisville and allowed Texas to protect Texas Tech in exchange for Northwestern so that Norte Dame could join full time in a 12 team conference:
Northwestern, Notre Dame, Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Vanderbilt
Miami, UVa, Wake Forest, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech

I doubt the SEC would sell out Vandy like that. At least not without also shedding some more deadweight as part of an elite football school breakaway. Same goes for the Big Ten and NW. And if ND's going all-in, it won't be with a tweener conference like that.
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2018 02:25 PM by Nerdlinger.)
02-12-2018 02:22 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Superconference Scenarios
(02-12-2018 01:37 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 01:11 PM)ken d Wrote:  I don't believe we will ever have what one might call "superconferences" or "megaconferences". I think 18 is the limit, and depending on what Oklahoma and Texas prefer to do there might only be one of those.

For this exercise, I'm going to assume (without any actual knowledge of what they want) they both want to go to the B1G, and that the B1G will have them and will accept two more to make that happen. I'm also going to assume that ESPN will either allow or encourage movement from the ACC to the SEC, and will negotiate whatever is needed to make that possible.

Then my two 18 team conferences are:

B1G East: Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers, Indiana, Purdue and Illinois.

B1G West: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St and Texas.

SEC East: Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Florida State, Clemson, Virginia Tech and NC State.

SEC West: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Mississippi St, Vanderbilt, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri and Texas A&M.

These four divisions will all play a balanced 8 game schedule, and will schedule any rivalry opponents from the other division in their conference as part of their OOC schedule. The only two such rivalries that come readily to mind are Auburn-Georgia and Tennessee-Vanderbilt.

The remaining ACC teams stay together as a single 10 team conference with a full round robin schedule plus Notre Dame, which plays half of them one year and the other half the next.

The remnants of the Big 12 rebuild from the AAC western teams, with West Virginia moving to the AAC. The net result is two geographically logical 9 team conferences (with Wichita State going with the Big 12).

The end result is 3 very strong (I won't say "Power") conferences, 3 Tweener conferences, and 4 relatively weak conferences.

At that point, ND probably parts ways with the ACC. They can hook up with the Big East again and retain a fully independent football schedule. Maybe they'd try to establish a partial football schedule with the Big Ten to replace the ACC games. Then they'd have easier access to traditional rivals such as Michigan, Michigan State, and Purdue, while still being able to play Navy, USC, and Stanford. Of course, if they're smart, they go all in with the Big Ten, and Okie Jr. can forget about an invite (not that the Cowboys would have been invited in the first place).

Also, in your scenario, WVU is sticking with the Big 12 except on the off chance that the ACC invites them.



While none of this will happen in reality, in this scenario, don't expect ND to join the Big Ten.

Why do people keep trying to shoehorn ND football into the very last place it wants to be?

ND outright rejected the Big Ten in 1999 and did so again in 2010-12 with its move to the ACC. Jim Delany really wanted the Irish, too. No sale.

I doubt ND would join the Big East. No bowl bids there, no football scheduling for November, either.

In this fantasy land scenario, ND would likely keep the status quo with that entity called the ACC for a number of reasons (Southeastern recruiting, better "fit" with private schools in ACC, etc.).
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2018 03:02 PM by TerryD.)
02-12-2018 02:55 PM
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