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Are the Germans losing their edge?
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miko33 Offline
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Are the Germans losing their edge?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/german-engi...1515753000

Quote:Germany’s naval brass in 2005 dreamed up a warship that could ferry marines into combat anywhere in the world, go up against enemy ships and stay away from home ports for two years with a crew half the size of its predecessor’s.

First delivered for sea trials in 2016 after a series of delays, the 7,000-ton Baden-Württemberg frigate was determined last month to have an unexpected design flaw: It doesn’t really work.

Defense experts cite the warship’s buggy software and ill-considered arsenal—as well as what was until recently its noticeable list to starboard—as symptoms of deeper, more intractable problems: Shrinking military expertise and growing confusion among German leaders about what the country’s armed forces are for.

A litany of bungled infrastructure projects has tarred Germany’s reputation for engineering prowess. There is still no opening date for Berlin’s new €6 billion ($7.2 billion) airport, which is already 10 years behind schedule, and the redesign of Stuttgart’s railway station remains stalled more than a decade after work on the project started. Observers have blamed these mishaps on poor planning and project management, which also figured in major setbacks for several big military projects.
01-12-2018 12:34 PM
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UofMTigerTim Offline
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RE: Are the Germans losing their edge?
(01-12-2018 12:34 PM)miko33 Wrote:  https://www.wsj.com/articles/german-engi...1515753000

Quote:Germany’s naval brass in 2005 dreamed up a warship that could ferry marines into combat anywhere in the world, go up against enemy ships and stay away from home ports for two years with a crew half the size of its predecessor’s.

First delivered for sea trials in 2016 after a series of delays, the 7,000-ton Baden-Württemberg frigate was determined last month to have an unexpected design flaw: It doesn’t really work.

Defense experts cite the warship’s buggy software and ill-considered arsenal—as well as what was until recently its noticeable list to starboard—as symptoms of deeper, more intractable problems: Shrinking military expertise and growing confusion among German leaders about what the country’s armed forces are for.

A litany of bungled infrastructure projects has tarred Germany’s reputation for engineering prowess. There is still no opening date for Berlin’s new €6 billion ($7.2 billion) airport, which is already 10 years behind schedule, and the redesign of Stuttgart’s railway station remains stalled more than a decade after work on the project started. Observers have blamed these mishaps on poor planning and project management, which also figured in major setbacks for several big military projects.

The German Navy returned the first ship back to the builder. That is a big deal and almost never happens.
01-12-2018 12:39 PM
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UofMstateU Offline
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RE: Are the Germans losing their edge?
As long as it can ferry into Germany thousands of isis refugee children disguised as 25 year old men, then Merkle will be happy with it.
01-12-2018 12:40 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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RE: Are the Germans losing their edge?
I am curious why Germany needed naval force projection to deliver marines to foreign beaches, but whatevs.......
01-12-2018 12:48 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Are the Germans losing their edge?
(01-12-2018 12:39 PM)UofMTigerTim Wrote:  The German Navy returned the first ship back to the builder. That is a big deal and almost never happens.

Yes, we accepted the Gerald Ford aircraft carrier even though a few things on it don't work the way they are supposed to work--like the catapults and the arresting gear.
01-12-2018 01:20 PM
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shere khan Offline
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RE: Are the Germans losing their edge?
(01-12-2018 12:48 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  I am curious why Germany needed naval force projection to deliver marines to foreign beaches, but whatevs.......

The 4th Reich
01-12-2018 01:26 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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RE: Are the Germans losing their edge?
(01-12-2018 12:48 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  I am curious why Germany needed naval force projection to deliver marines to foreign beaches, but whatevs.......

Storming beaches to repatriate foreign nationals.
01-12-2018 03:05 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: Are the Germans losing their edge?
German engineering prowess is more the result of a a quasi-marketing campaign than anything based in fact.
01-12-2018 03:06 PM
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banker Offline
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RE: Are the Germans losing their edge?
(01-12-2018 03:06 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  German engineering prowess is more the result of a a quasi-marketing campaign than anything based in fact.

Yeah, I have to completely disagree with that. I'm not talking consumer goods, but the machinery used to build other machinery, where precision is paramount.
01-12-2018 03:38 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: Are the Germans losing their edge?
(01-12-2018 03:38 PM)banker Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 03:06 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  German engineering prowess is more the result of a a quasi-marketing campaign than anything based in fact.

Yeah, I have to completely disagree with that. I'm not talking consumer goods, but the machinery used to build other machinery, where precision is paramount.

Yea, I'm gonna have to stand by that. The heavy machinery I'm most familiar with, used in the oil and gas industry, from the rock busting to the very fine isn't German.

And, when it comes to other forms of engineering, outside manufacturing, the Germans are not kings nor are they always in the conversation.
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2018 03:44 PM by HeartOfDixie.)
01-12-2018 03:41 PM
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EverRespect Offline
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Are the Germans losing their edge?
My parents went through a phase where they bought Mercedes and BMW. They were all pieces of schit that cost thousands in annual repairs caused by overengineering. Not to mention, the interior upholstery, paneling, doors, and windows fell apart on every single one of them.

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01-12-2018 03:47 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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RE: Are the Germans losing their edge?
(01-12-2018 03:47 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  My parents went through a phase where they bought Mercedes and BMW. They were all pieces of schit that cost thousands in annual repairs caused by overengineering. Not to mention, the interior upholstery, paneling, doors, and windows fell apart on every single one of them.

What years? Cause a mid-70 to mid-80 Mercedes is pretty well engineered.

But if they bought a mid-2000's BMW 7 series, may Huskie Jebus have mercy on their souls.
01-12-2018 03:50 PM
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EverRespect Offline
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RE: Are the Germans losing their edge?
(01-12-2018 03:50 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 03:47 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  My parents went through a phase where they bought Mercedes and BMW. They were all pieces of schit that cost thousands in annual repairs caused by overengineering. Not to mention, the interior upholstery, paneling, doors, and windows fell apart on every single one of them.

What years? Cause a mid-70 to mid-80 Mercedes is pretty well engineered.

But if they bought a mid-2000's BMW 7 series, may Huskie Jebus have mercy on their souls.
Probably late 90s or early 2000s.

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01-12-2018 04:00 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: Are the Germans losing their edge?
(01-12-2018 03:47 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  My parents went through a phase where they bought Mercedes and BMW. They were all pieces of schit that cost thousands in annual repairs caused by overengineering. Not to mention, the interior upholstery, paneling, doors, and windows fell apart on every single one of them.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I have personally never owned a German car. Mine have all been American, British, or Italian.

But, I've never been that impressed and the German engineered portion is generally nothing but a marketing strategy.
01-12-2018 04:15 PM
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shere khan Offline
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RE: Are the Germans losing their edge?
(01-12-2018 03:06 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  German engineering prowess is more the result of a a quasi-marketing campaign than anything based in fact.
They over engineer every damn thing. Fricking 14 piece scissor gear cup holders. German Engineers - The Masters of Multiple Failure Points.
01-12-2018 04:44 PM
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Crebman Offline
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RE: Are the Germans losing their edge?
(01-12-2018 04:15 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 03:47 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  My parents went through a phase where they bought Mercedes and BMW. They were all pieces of schit that cost thousands in annual repairs caused by overengineering. Not to mention, the interior upholstery, paneling, doors, and windows fell apart on every single one of them.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I have personally never owned a German car. Mine have all been American, British, or Italian.

But, I've never been that impressed and the German engineered portion is generally nothing but a marketing strategy.

My wife owned one BMW. She absolutely loved that car, enough that she kept it for 14 years. That said, I didn't like it because to fix anything was 2X/3X more than fixing the same things for American or Japanese cars.

Nudged her toward Lexus when she finally traded it in and she likes the Lexus a lot.

The Germans make very good cutting tools, etc. that are used in manufacturing, but they certainly aren't cheap.
01-12-2018 04:53 PM
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EverRespect Offline
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Are the Germans losing their edge?
I recall one if them in particular featured a new proprietary state of the art, high tech PCV system. Problem was, as we found out the hard way, it needed to be cleaned out annually or it would clog and the turbo would blow. The other problem was it wasn't a simple valve on top of the crankcase, it was a series of tubes and oil separators that were buried under everything else and it cost a cool $1,200 in labor just to clean it.

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01-12-2018 04:59 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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RE: Are the Germans losing their edge?
(01-12-2018 04:53 PM)Crebman Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 04:15 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 03:47 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  My parents went through a phase where they bought Mercedes and BMW. They were all pieces of schit that cost thousands in annual repairs caused by overengineering. Not to mention, the interior upholstery, paneling, doors, and windows fell apart on every single one of them.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I have personally never owned a German car. Mine have all been American, British, or Italian.

But, I've never been that impressed and the German engineered portion is generally nothing but a marketing strategy.

My wife owned one BMW. She absolutely loved that car, enough that she kept it for 14 years. That said, I didn't like it because to fix anything was 2X/3X more than fixing the same things for American or Japanese cars.

Nudged her toward Lexus when she finally traded it in and she likes the Lexus a lot.

The Germans make very good cutting tools, etc. that are used in manufacturing, but they certainly aren't cheap.

They make the best hazmat equipment as well.
01-12-2018 04:59 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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RE: Are the Germans losing their edge?
The high end german stuff for years tended to be way over engineered with an eye towards initial performance but no reasonable heed paid to the fact that parts may someday actually need to be removed, replaced or maintained. You'd find yourself asking WTF the sadistic designers were thinking when having to pull the front half of an engine apart just to change a fan belt or spark plugs.
01-12-2018 05:10 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: Are the Germans losing their edge?
(01-12-2018 05:10 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  The high end german stuff for years tended to be way over engineered with an eye towards initial performance but no reasonable heed paid to the fact that parts may someday actually need to be removed, replaced or maintained. You'd find yourself asking WTF the sadistic designers were thinking when having to pull the front half of an engine apart just to change a fan belt or spark plugs.

Or drop a motor to change lightbulbs...

Thanks Audi!

There is a clear difference in approach between cars and such of various countries. The Germans do not agree that simple is better.
01-12-2018 05:23 PM
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