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B12 Expansion Model
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joeben69 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: B12 Expansion Model
(01-31-2018 09:53 PM)colohank Wrote:  
(01-31-2018 02:05 PM)Baylorbears11 Wrote:  
(01-31-2018 12:53 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(01-31-2018 12:31 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  Big 12 commissioner tells local politician, thanks but no thanks on adding UCF and USF
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/uc...story.html

Ouch. I think the duo would be a good addition. It would be another island. If you're not Texas and Oklahoma, you have to at least consider life after the Longhorns and Sooners leave. Central Florida, South Florida, Cincinnati, Memphis, and SMU aren't bad options.


My hope for the Bears outside of the Big 12s continued existence is a best of the rest conference with something along the lines of:

BYU
Boise State
Colorado State
Baylor
SMU
Houston
New Mexico

Kansas State
Memphis
Best case scenario for castoffs would be inviting some of the programs while the Big 12 isn't being torn apart to build their brands and then reforging a new Big 12 after the music stops.

Cincy
UConn
Tulane
UCF
USF

You could always swap a team here or there or maybe even grow to 16 with UNLV/UNR/Air Force/Navy/SDSU, etc. Attempts at a "best of the rest" have failed in the past, but the Big 12 central location would help with that a bit.

That was the rationale that motivated the Big XII's ill-fated effort to expand last year. If they try it again, it'll just make them look even sillier and more desperate. It also left a bad taste in a lot of mouths. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

read from a thread
collegesportsinfo.com
Post subject: Re: Division 2 Realignment Thread
http://collegesportsinfo.com/forum/viewt...&start=735

UT, OU, KU, WVU leave the big 12
ISU, KSU, OSU, TT, Baylor, TCU left behind in the big 12
Houston, Rice, SMU, Tulsa, Wichita, Tulane invited to big 12 from aac

tweak the aac invitees with witchita (non fb) + byu (fb only) to balance fb & non fb sports in this big 12 scenario...
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2018 03:15 AM by joeben69.)
02-01-2018 03:06 AM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: B12 Expansion Model
(02-01-2018 03:06 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  
(01-31-2018 09:53 PM)colohank Wrote:  
(01-31-2018 02:05 PM)Baylorbears11 Wrote:  
(01-31-2018 12:53 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(01-31-2018 12:31 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  Big 12 commissioner tells local politician, thanks but no thanks on adding UCF and USF
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/uc...story.html

Ouch. I think the duo would be a good addition. It would be another island. If you're not Texas and Oklahoma, you have to at least consider life after the Longhorns and Sooners leave. Central Florida, South Florida, Cincinnati, Memphis, and SMU aren't bad options.


My hope for the Bears outside of the Big 12s continued existence is a best of the rest conference with something along the lines of:

BYU
Boise State
Colorado State
Baylor
SMU
Houston
New Mexico

Kansas State
Memphis
Best case scenario for castoffs would be inviting some of the programs while the Big 12 isn't being torn apart to build their brands and then reforging a new Big 12 after the music stops.

Cincy
UConn
Tulane
UCF
USF

You could always swap a team here or there or maybe even grow to 16 with UNLV/UNR/Air Force/Navy/SDSU, etc. Attempts at a "best of the rest" have failed in the past, but the Big 12 central location would help with that a bit.

That was the rationale that motivated the Big XII's ill-fated effort to expand last year. If they try it again, it'll just make them look even sillier and more desperate. It also left a bad taste in a lot of mouths. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

read from a thread
collegesportsinfo.com
Post subject: Re: Division 2 Realignment Thread
http://collegesportsinfo.com/forum/viewt...&start=735

UT, OU, KU, WVU leave the big 12
ISU, KSU, OSU, TT, Baylor, TCU left behind in the big 12
Houston, Rice, SMU, Tulsa, Wichita, Tulane invited to big 12 from aac

tweak the aac invitees with witchita (non fb) + byu (fb only) to balance fb & non fb sports in this big 12 scenario...

That would be one terrible big 12. One of your picks Wichita doesn’t have a football team and rice, Tulane, SMU and Tulsa are some of the worst teams in the country to add to Baylor, Texas Tech and Iowa St etc....pretty bad CUSA like conference.
02-01-2018 11:40 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #63
RE: B12 Expansion Model
The main reasons for expansion have been 1) the addition of the lucrative conference championship game and 2) the entrance into new markets. Now a CCG can be held with only ten members or less, why would they add more mouths to feed?

The ACC's first proposal was to expand with just Miami, and by most accounts Miami wanted to include BC and Syracuse to keep their northern alumni happy (even though they agreed to be in a division w/out either of them 07-coffee3 ). After Virginia Tech was admitted too, the ACC wanted to hold a CCG with 11 teams, but they were shut down. Had they been allowed, I'm not convinced UNC and Duke would have budged to invite BC.

Which conference wants to have their teams play less? Do you think Michigan fans are excited when Maryland and Rutgers come to town? No, they'd much rather see their school host Wisconsin or Minnesota, familiar foes with regional ties.

So ask yourselves: would Texas or Oklahoma voluntarily play Texas Tech or Kansas less so UCF and USF could be placed on equal footing? Or would they rather gobble up any FLA recruits and hold it over their head that even though UCF won all their games they couldn't make the playoffs? This isn't the 80's where Miami and FSU made names for themselves in a criminally under-represented state and forced their way into the Big Boys Club.

I'm envious of the Big XII, they've been allowed to do what the ACC wanted to do 20 years ago. No offense, but I could care less about playing Pitt, BC, Syracuse, and Louisville. Even in basketball, those games aren't special in-season games and it means we see our rivals much less. It was a treat to have a home-and-home with an up-and-coming Clemson team this season. I'd much rather play the former Big East schools in the NCAA's or a bowl game where it adds some level of mystique.
02-01-2018 02:39 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: B12 Expansion Model
I actually agree with esayem. The ACC is now two conferences, the old ACC less Maryland (8 schools) and 7 old Big East schools. It was a slow motion absorption rather than a quick one like the Big-12 when it merged the SWC that Texas wanted to bring with them (Basically Texas wanted to replace Rice, Houston, SMU and TCU with the Oklahoma schools, since the Texas politicos wouldn't let them join the Pac-10 with A&M going to the SEC). So the ACC is where they never wanted to be. And nobody will change much because the CCGs are in place as is. No incentive.

Now back to the B12. This thread, like so many others, quickly degenerates into a bunch of Houston and some UCF fans (here and there a USF or Cincy fan) clamoring to be let into the B12 as it is constituted now. But no go. JRsec gave an excellent OP in the P5 forum that basically showed that only OU and Texas bring value to other P5 conferences above their current medium. And we should take that much more seriously. Again no incentive.

My general look at 2025 is that the P12 will partially resolve their network and media revenue problems to be basically revenue neutral move for a B12 school, and pretty much the same with the ACC and their network (it will help but not like the B1G or SEC ... nobody will match them). Only two schools can initiate movement, and they are OU and Texas. And the only way a new school gets in the B12 is if OU or Texas move.

So lets look at that scenario with JRsec's valuations in mind. It is generally viewed that it all comes down to OU. If they decide to stay nothing happens in 2025. If they move, taking a friend (B1G with say KU or SEC with oSu), then the B12 will need 2 schools to keep 10 and a CCG. And that is all the more watering down they'd take. In this scenario, no Texas schools leave, so no new Texas schools would be invited (sorry Houston). Texas is still there, so academic mediocrity wont do (sorry Memphis, ECU), nor will having LGBT issues be accepted (sorry BYU). Who does that leave? Colorado State, Cincy, UConn, USF, UCF, Tulane. UConn has been adrift under Susan Herbst, and they are facing big budget cutting with the old Big East money drying up; barring a major improvement in leadership they will be passed over yet again in realignment. Tulane would be a shoe-in if they were good at Football and strong in Basketball, but they aren't, so they drift down the list. That leaves four, the Florida twins, Cincy and CSU. Honestly CSU and one of the Florida schools make the most sense, but Cincy is probably the best all around program - between the Florida programs USF would be preferred if they were roughly equal, as they have much stronger research plus a Med school.

Now should Texas also bolt, say to the P12 with Texas Tech (and/or TCU), then the parameters open up. BYU concerns fall away, and there are suddenly openings for Texas schools like Houston and even SMU. While the chances for UCF and even Houston rise to above 90%, this would no longer be the B12 their fans are dreaming of. It would still be an upgrade, as you would be trading ECU, Tulsa, Memphis and Temple for Iowa State, Baylor, West Virginia, and K State.

Whatever. There will be another variant on this thread in a couple weeks and all this will be repeated.
02-01-2018 04:11 PM
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