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Houston QB Kyle Allen declares for the NFL Draft
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Coog Engineer Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Houston QB Kyle Allen declares for the NFL Draft
(01-11-2018 07:47 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 05:22 PM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 04:57 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 04:27 PM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  Kyle allen has sucked at every level in college yet we are supposed to believe he is nfl quality...


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You saw the Jags/Bills game last weekend, right?


Well blake bortles did lead ucf to a fiesta bowl victory and he was a top 5 pick so....


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Yup. Bad NFL QBs were studs in college. Bad college QBs dont tend to make good NFL QBs.


Looked up Case Keenum in the dictionary, it reads: "Killing it."
01-12-2018 12:52 PM
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uhmump95 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Houston QB Kyle Allen declares for the NFL Draft
Allen was in the wrong system here at UH. I think you put him in Baylor or Tech's offensive system and he flourishes.
01-12-2018 12:53 PM
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No Bull Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Houston QB Kyle Allen declares for the NFL Draft
(01-11-2018 01:45 PM)TampaTom Wrote:  http://m.chron.com/sports/cougars/articl...490471.php

The Chronicle Wrote:Allen led the Cougars to a season-opening win at Arizona and set a UH single-game record for completion percentage, going 31-of-33 (93.9) against Rice.

But he was plagued by turnovers, committing a combined six in games against Arizona and Texas Tech. His three against Tech on Sept. 23 led to his benching, and he lost the starting job for good the next week to Kyle Postma.

Does this mean QB at Houston is highly suspect? How do UH fans feels?
He lost his job to Kyle Postma...so he decides to go pro... good luck with that.
01-12-2018 06:32 PM
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aTxTIGER Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Houston QB Kyle Allen declares for the NFL Draft
(01-12-2018 12:52 PM)Coog Engineer Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 07:47 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 05:22 PM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 04:57 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 04:27 PM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  Kyle allen has sucked at every level in college yet we are supposed to believe he is nfl quality...


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You saw the Jags/Bills game last weekend, right?


Well blake bortles did lead ucf to a fiesta bowl victory and he was a top 5 pick so....


Sent from my Necronomicon using DemonTalk

Yup. Bad NFL QBs were studs in college. Bad college QBs dont tend to make good NFL QBs.


Looked up Case Keenum in the dictionary, it reads: "Killing it."

Dude, Case Keenum was a stud in college. 2 time conference player of the year. Allen is not Case Keenum.
01-12-2018 06:34 PM
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aTxTIGER Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Houston QB Kyle Allen declares for the NFL Draft
For those comparing Kyle Allen to Case Kennum:

In 3 separate years, Case Keenum threw more touchdown passes than Allen did in his entire career.
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2018 09:01 PM by aTxTIGER.)
01-12-2018 06:35 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Houston QB Kyle Allen declares for the NFL Draft
(01-12-2018 06:35 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  For those comparing Kyle Allen to Case Kennum:

In 3 separate years, Case Keenum through more touchdown passes than Allen did in his entire career.

Yet---I suspect Allen will be drafted where Case was not. The NFL likes their measurables. Case has amazing confidence and work ethic. Only now, in his fifth year in the NFL has he managed to garner some respect. Frankly, at one point, I thought he might be done---until the Texans called him down from a deer stand and had him start the last 2 games of their 2014 season. He won both of the Texans starts and ended up getting a job with the Rams. I kinda feel like Obrian may have saved Kennum's career with that move.
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2018 06:57 PM by Attackcoog.)
01-12-2018 06:48 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Houston QB Kyle Allen declares for the NFL Draft
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...-thoughts/

This article shows what I've long suspected. NFL chooses measurables over winners. If I was a GM, I would look at what the player did over his career. Win? Great. Case in point besides Keenum, Wentz. I hope Kyle Allen gets drafted and does well, as he's been nothing but gracious as a Coog.
01-13-2018 12:29 AM
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Post: #28
RE: Houston QB Kyle Allen declares for the NFL Draft
(01-11-2018 05:22 PM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 04:57 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 04:27 PM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  Kyle allen has sucked at every level in college yet we are supposed to believe he is nfl quality...


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You saw the Jags/Bills game last weekend, right?


Well blake bortles did lead ucf to a fiesta bowl victory and he was a top 5 pick so....


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And Tyrod Taylor was a beast at Virginia Tech
01-13-2018 07:08 AM
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sfink16 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Houston QB Kyle Allen declares for the NFL Draft
(01-11-2018 01:45 PM)TampaTom Wrote:  http://m.chron.com/sports/cougars/articl...490471.php

The Chronicle Wrote:Allen led the Cougars to a season-opening win at Arizona and set a UH single-game record for completion percentage, going 31-of-33 (93.9) against Rice.

But he was plagued by turnovers, committing a combined six in games against Arizona and Texas Tech. His three against Tech on Sept. 23 led to his benching, and he lost the starting job for good the next week to Kyle Postma.

Does this mean QB at Houston is highly suspect? How do UH fans feels?

It means that pro style QBs will never come there as long as Applewhite is there.

Applewhite doesn't know how to use a top pro style QB. Brett Favre was a HOF NFL QB while turning the ball over too much at times. Good/Great QBs take more chances, throw in tighter windows where sometimes they make mistakes and turn the ball over. When not turning the ball over they tend to be TD producing machines.

Also, there are acceptable picks and not so much. Picks that occur downfield on 3rd and 10 you can live. What you can't live with is a QB who runs first, gets 5 yards and you have to punt. Rarely does a QB pick up 10 yards against good defenses by running the ball. I can live with that 30 yard pick. Sometimes the QB even gets lucky and picks up a pass interference penalty, which does not show up in the stats. You can't pick up a PI penalty running the ball.

Look at Alabama and Hurts as their QB and what happened when they switched against a good defense.
01-13-2018 11:14 AM
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Post: #30
RE: Houston QB Kyle Allen declares for the NFL Draft
(01-11-2018 04:27 PM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  Kyle allen has sucked at every level in college yet we are supposed to believe he is nfl quality...


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I can't speak to earlier days, but his latest coaching staff (Applewhite) had no clue how to use a pro style QB. Penn State had a similar 5 star QB in Christian Hackenberg who did great under Bill O'Brien yet sucked when the next coach came in. That same QB regressed miserably.

He recovered his junior year a little bit, when RB great Saquon Barkley arrived at PSU, and was drafted in the 2nd round by the Jets. I believe that the same thing can happen to Allen.
01-13-2018 11:27 AM
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Post: #31
Houston QB Kyle Allen declares for the NFL Draft
(01-13-2018 11:27 AM)sfink16 Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 04:27 PM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  Kyle allen has sucked at every level in college yet we are supposed to believe he is nfl quality...


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I can't speak to earlier days, but his latest coaching staff (Applewhite) had no clue how to use a pro style QB. Penn State had a similar 5 star QB in Christian Hackenberg who did great under Bill O'Brien yet sucked when the next coach came in. That same QB regressed miserably.

He recovered his junior year a little bit, when RB great Saquon Barkley arrived at PSU, and was drafted in the 2nd round by the Jets. I believe that the same thing can happen to Allen.


Ya but he hasn’t even been very good with the the jets.


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01-13-2018 12:58 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Houston QB Kyle Allen declares for the NFL Draft
(01-13-2018 11:27 AM)sfink16 Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 04:27 PM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  Kyle allen has sucked at every level in college yet we are supposed to believe he is nfl quality...


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I can't speak to earlier days, but his latest coaching staff (Applewhite) had no clue how to use a pro style QB. Penn State had a similar 5 star QB in Christian Hackenberg who did great under Bill O'Brien yet sucked when the next coach came in. That same QB regressed miserably.

He recovered his junior year a little bit, when RB great Saquon Barkley arrived at PSU, and was drafted in the 2nd round by the Jets. I believe that the same thing can happen to Allen.
Hackenberg is the epitome of all measurables no skill. My favorite memory is watching Temple sack him 10 times in our 27-10 beat down of psu.
01-13-2018 01:25 PM
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sfink16 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Houston QB Kyle Allen declares for the NFL Draft
(01-13-2018 12:58 PM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  
(01-13-2018 11:27 AM)sfink16 Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 04:27 PM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  Kyle allen has sucked at every level in college yet we are supposed to believe he is nfl quality...


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I can't speak to earlier days, but his latest coaching staff (Applewhite) had no clue how to use a pro style QB. Penn State had a similar 5 star QB in Christian Hackenberg who did great under Bill O'Brien yet sucked when the next coach came in. That same QB regressed miserably.

He recovered his junior year a little bit, when RB great Saquon Barkley arrived at PSU, and was drafted in the 2nd round by the Jets. I believe that the same thing can happen to Allen.


Ya but he hasn’t even been very good with the the jets.


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True, but it took Case Keenum a few years. Paxton Lynch still hasn't arrived yet. Some QBs take longer, some never achieve success.

That said, very few run first, or called runs (D. Watson perhaps), QBs in the NFL. Even if a running QB makes it in the NFL, he probably won't last long due to the pounding he takes and playing 16 games, not counting playoffs. As successful as Quinton Flowers was at USF he may have to play a different position.
01-13-2018 01:41 PM
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Post: #34
Houston QB Kyle Allen declares for the NFL Draft
(01-13-2018 01:41 PM)sfink16 Wrote:  
(01-13-2018 12:58 PM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  
(01-13-2018 11:27 AM)sfink16 Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 04:27 PM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  Kyle allen has sucked at every level in college yet we are supposed to believe he is nfl quality...


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I can't speak to earlier days, but his latest coaching staff (Applewhite) had no clue how to use a pro style QB. Penn State had a similar 5 star QB in Christian Hackenberg who did great under Bill O'Brien yet sucked when the next coach came in. That same QB regressed miserably.

He recovered his junior year a little bit, when RB great Saquon Barkley arrived at PSU, and was drafted in the 2nd round by the Jets. I believe that the same thing can happen to Allen.


Ya but he hasn’t even been very good with the the jets.


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True, but it took Case Keenum a few years. Paxton Lynch still hasn't arrived yet. Some QBs take longer, some never achieve success.

That said, very few run first, or called runs (D. Watson perhaps), QBs in the NFL. Even if a running QB makes it in the NFL, he probably won't last long due to the pounding he takes and playing 16 games, not counting playoffs. As successful as Quinton Flowers was at USF he may have to play a different position.


Cam newton is doing pretty good.


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01-13-2018 01:59 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Houston QB Kyle Allen declares for the NFL Draft
(01-13-2018 01:59 PM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  Cam newton is doing pretty good.

Pretty good and he did have the "superman/career" year but his career NFL QB rating is average at 85.3, even with the very good year. The last 2 years has seen his rating near the bottom of the NFL of qualified QBs. I believe that (shoulder) injury is part of that. Let's so how the remainder of his career unfolds. As for QBs who can run I'd probably select Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers before the others.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2018 03:01 PM by sfink16.)
01-13-2018 02:57 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Houston QB Kyle Allen declares for the NFL Draft
(01-13-2018 11:14 AM)sfink16 Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 01:45 PM)TampaTom Wrote:  http://m.chron.com/sports/cougars/articl...490471.php

The Chronicle Wrote:Allen led the Cougars to a season-opening win at Arizona and set a UH single-game record for completion percentage, going 31-of-33 (93.9) against Rice.

But he was plagued by turnovers, committing a combined six in games against Arizona and Texas Tech. His three against Tech on Sept. 23 led to his benching, and he lost the starting job for good the next week to Kyle Postma.

Does this mean QB at Houston is highly suspect? How do UH fans feels?

It means that pro style QBs will never come there as long as Applewhite is there.

Applewhite doesn't know how to use a top pro style QB.
Brett Favre was a HOF NFL QB while turning the ball over too much at times. Good/Great QBs take more chances, throw in tighter windows where sometimes they make mistakes and turn the ball over. When not turning the ball over they tend to be TD producing machines.

Also, there are acceptable picks and not so much. Picks that occur downfield on 3rd and 10 you can live. What you can't live with is a QB who runs first, gets 5 yards and you have to punt. Rarely does a QB pick up 10 yards against good defenses by running the ball. I can live with that 30 yard pick. Sometimes the QB even gets lucky and picks up a pass interference penalty, which does not show up in the stats. You can't pick up a PI penalty running the ball.

Look at Alabama and Hurts as their QB and what happened when they switched against a good defense.


This may end up being true, but not for the reason you mention. The problems that plagued Allen and Postma, also plagued King, but the coaches not knowing how to draw up plays to take advantage of their abilities wasn't one of them. The biggest issue was the really weak OL, but King was the most mobile and able to buy himself time. The fact our running game was pathetic only further highlights the OL problem.

Postma was also mobile to some extent but he showed he makes bad decisions when being pressured, or else tried too hard and didn't play within his own abilities resulting in turnovers which is why he lost the job also. Two last minute turnovers (fumble, int) in a row killing all chances of pulling out the win against Memphis was the final straw.

In a perfect world, where our OL was able to sustain the pocket, Allen very well may have flourished at UH, but stuff happens, and once a defense identifies your weakness, they attack it. Allen and Postma's weakness was they turn the ball over when hurried.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2018 04:37 PM by Coog Engineer.)
01-13-2018 04:27 PM
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sfink16 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Houston QB Kyle Allen declares for the NFL Draft
(01-13-2018 04:27 PM)Coog Engineer Wrote:  This may end up being true, but not for the reason you mention. The problems that plagued Allen and Postma, also plagued King, but the coaches not knowing how to draw up plays to take advantage of their abilities wasn't one of them. The biggest issue was the really weak OL, but King was the most mobile and able to buy himself time. The fact our running game was pathetic only further highlights the OL problem.

Postma was also mobile to some extent but he showed he makes bad decisions when being pressured, or else tried too hard and didn't play within his own abilities resulting in turnovers which is why he lost the job also. Two last minute turnovers (fumble, int) in a row killing all chances of pulling out the win against Memphis was the final straw.

In a perfect world, where our OL was able to sustain the pocket, Allen very well may have flourished at UH, but stuff happens, and once a defense identifies your weakness, they attack it. Allen and Postma's weakness was they turn the ball over when hurried.

You may have a point regarding the o-line because the games I watched Houston this year you're correct that the QBs had little time in the pocket AND the RBs had little room to run.

However, I do disagree with you in that I feel it's more than o-line problems, QB problems, or RB problems. All to often Houston seemed to line up 4 WRs in their schemes. I could be wrong but sometimes I think that they went with 5 wide-outs.

IMO, that's a recipe for disaster for the o-line, already not stellar to begin with. I watched in amazement the number of times the o-line tried to time the start of the play only to get it wrong and get called for a penalty. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that they felt that they needed to get a jump for fear of missing a block and killing the QB or RB or both.

What I didn't see from Applewhite was any max-protect schemes and can't recall seeing any well planned screen passes. I'm not sure what other way to protect a porous o-line than to keep the d-line guessing. No misdirection plays either. Maybe through a fullback there once in a while. Their RBs weren't big enough to take on big/strong LBs, no less d-linemen. Something, anything! Applewhite seemed to like banging his head on the wall and hope what wasn't work will somehow magically work.
01-13-2018 05:19 PM
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