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America East, A-10 and CAA consolidate?
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #61
RE: America East, A-10 and CAA consolidate?
Don't see BU or Northeastern getting a promotion. Although those schools should be wanted academically by the A10 for a Boston presence, they offer only dismal mbb attendance ( NE averages 1100 and BU has well under a 1000). The only sport that they really value is hockey and that doesnt mesh with the A10.
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2018 03:50 PM by NoDak.)
01-15-2018 03:49 PM
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LostInSpace Offline
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RE: America East, A-10 and CAA consolidate?
(01-15-2018 02:52 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I don't see more northeastern schools getting into the A10. Siena and Hofstra have been trying for ages...if it happens for them, it's because the conference is virtually gutted of anything relevant.

It would be interesting what Davidson would lobby for. CoC maybe. I personally don't understand the appeal for basketball prestige (they were good in ASun, and it's like we've been waiting for them ever since to really emerge in SoCon and CAA) over UNCW, but CoC pushes the border south and into a good coastal city.

Davidson lobbied hard to have CoC added along with them when they negotiated their entry to the A10.

When Davidson was added Siena, Iona and Fairfield were also vetted by the A10. If Davidson declined the A10’s offer one of those three would have been invited instead, with Siena and Iona being far ahead of Fairfield on the list. Unless things have changed since then replacement members would likely come from the Northeast because the school presidents want a bus league to the extent possible. That said, I think CoC would get serious consideration because they would have Davidson’s support and I think some of the Catholic schools would be interested in having a footprint in a state with a growing school age population for student recruitment purposes.

(01-15-2018 03:04 PM)solohawks Wrote:  I don't see Fordham wanting anymore NYC schools. Northeastern schools are extremely territorial

See above. Iona was on the short list last time.
01-15-2018 03:53 PM
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Erictelevision Offline
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Post: #63
RE: America East, A-10 and CAA consolidate?
NoDak: does the A10 even sponsor hockey?
01-15-2018 03:57 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #64
RE: America East, A-10 and CAA consolidate?
(01-15-2018 03:57 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  NoDak: does the A10 even sponsor hockey?

Only UMass sponsors it. URI has been rumored for years to start varsity . No Northeast all sports conference sponsors hockey , as hockey schools have single sport hockey leagues.

Edit: St Louis used to sponsor it, but dropped it in the 70's.
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2018 04:26 PM by NoDak.)
01-15-2018 04:20 PM
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solohawks Offline
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RE: America East, A-10 and CAA consolidate?
(01-15-2018 03:43 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Solohawks: is Northeastern territorial? 03-wink

I see what you did there lol
01-15-2018 06:01 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #66
RE: America East, A-10 and CAA consolidate?
(01-15-2018 03:53 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(01-15-2018 02:52 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I don't see more northeastern schools getting into the A10. Siena and Hofstra have been trying for ages...if it happens for them, it's because the conference is virtually gutted of anything relevant.

It would be interesting what Davidson would lobby for. CoC maybe. I personally don't understand the appeal for basketball prestige (they were good in ASun, and it's like we've been waiting for them ever since to really emerge in SoCon and CAA) over UNCW, but CoC pushes the border south and into a good coastal city.

Davidson lobbied hard to have CoC added along with them when they negotiated their entry to the A10.

When Davidson was added Siena, Iona and Fairfield were also vetted by the A10. If Davidson declined the A10’s offer one of those three would have been invited instead, with Siena and Iona being far ahead of Fairfield on the list. Unless things have changed since then replacement members would likely come from the Northeast because the school presidents want a bus league to the extent possible. That said, I think CoC would get serious consideration because they would have Davidson’s support and I think some of the Catholic schools would be interested in having a footprint in a state with a growing school age population for student recruitment purposes.

(01-15-2018 03:04 PM)solohawks Wrote:  I don't see Fordham wanting anymore NYC schools. Northeastern schools are extremely territorial

See above. Iona was on the short list last time.

If St Louis and Daytona both left I would think Charleston would be a top add for #13 with UNCW a great compliment as #14.

This would create 2 naturall 7 team bus divisions
01-15-2018 06:05 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #67
RE: America East, A-10 and CAA consolidate?
(01-15-2018 03:53 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(01-15-2018 02:52 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I don't see more northeastern schools getting into the A10. Siena and Hofstra have been trying for ages...if it happens for them, it's because the conference is virtually gutted of anything relevant.

It would be interesting what Davidson would lobby for. CoC maybe. I personally don't understand the appeal for basketball prestige (they were good in ASun, and it's like we've been waiting for them ever since to really emerge in SoCon and CAA) over UNCW, but CoC pushes the border south and into a good coastal city.

Davidson lobbied hard to have CoC added along with them when they negotiated their entry to the A10.

When Davidson was added Siena, Iona and Fairfield were also vetted by the A10. If Davidson declined the A10’s offer one of those three would have been invited instead, with Siena and Iona being far ahead of Fairfield on the list. Unless things have changed since then replacement members would likely come from the Northeast because the school presidents want a bus league to the extent possible. That said, I think CoC would get serious consideration because they would have Davidson’s support and I think some of the Catholic schools would be interested in having a footprint in a state with a growing school age population for student recruitment purposes.

(01-15-2018 03:04 PM)solohawks Wrote:  I don't see Fordham wanting anymore NYC schools. Northeastern schools are extremely territorial

See above. Iona was on the short list last time.
Happen to believe the Virginia schools wanted a NC school South of them to replace Charlotte. Davidson takes more enrollment from the NE than adding catholic students from NC. CofC would be a nice second step if St Louis or Dayton leave.
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2018 06:51 PM by NoDak.)
01-15-2018 06:49 PM
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templefootballfan Offline
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Post: #68
RE: America East, A-10 and CAA consolidate?
A-10 wants thier conf tourn in Brooklyn
the'll need NY area schools
I did't understand Davidson at all
01-15-2018 08:41 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #69
RE: America East, A-10 and CAA consolidate?
(01-15-2018 08:41 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  I did't understand Davidson at all

Twelve tournament appearances before entering the A10. Then they won the A10 the first year they were in it...

I admit I wasn't a fan at first. Far better than anything else available in SoCon or CAA, though. Burned by Fordham and George Mason. SLU, too. Winning that conference with VCU and Dayton? My only hope is that they can keep it up over time.

It's because the conference looked that way that has me thinking the A10 could look at the Siena's and Iona's of the northeast, and they'll continue to get passed over. I mean, what if Belmont were to apply?

The one I always wished the A10 should have gotten, even if just for a bit, was Old Dominion.
01-15-2018 10:41 PM
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templefootballfan Offline
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Post: #70
RE: America East, A-10 and CAA consolidate?
I didn,t have promblem with Davidson BB
630 miles from Brooklyn is what thru me off
01-15-2018 11:26 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #71
RE: America East, A-10 and CAA consolidate?
Fordham is really not the driver of much in the A-10. Fordham is really seen by many in the league a cautionary tale for the A-10 about 'markets'. Davidson actually works well for the league. Many of our teams recruit down there and they contribute. They also appear to be happy in the league as well.
01-15-2018 11:41 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: America East, A-10 and CAA consolidate?
(01-15-2018 02:52 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I don't see more northeastern schools getting into the A10. Siena and Hofstra have been trying for ages...if it happens for them, it's because the conference is virtually gutted of anything relevant.

It would be interesting what Davidson would lobby for. CoC maybe. I personally don't understand the appeal for basketball prestige (they were good in ASun, and it's like we've been waiting for them ever since to really emerge in SoCon and CAA) over UNCW, but CoC pushes the border south and into a good coastal city.

Siena is actually perceived by many in the league as the number 1 target if there's an opening. I don't get it either. But there are some connected people on the A-10 board that seem to be very confident of that fact. Every team in the CAA would take a A-10 bid if offered. Every team in the America East would do the same. Just like every team in the A-10 would take a bid to the Big East.

Regarding Siena. They have the advantage of being close, but not too close, to many of our existing teams. St Bona really wants them. Fordham does too. So does UMass and URI. I don't think the southern teams really want an Albany based team in the league, but it might help with travel.

UNCW? Possible. But I'd guess that they'd be around 8th or 9th on the list. Ahead of JMU though. If Davidson left, then they'd be higher. Either way, the A-10 has 14 teams, and doesn't really need any more teams. College of Charleston? Probably around 8th or 9th.

BTW, UNCW and Charleston are probably better programs than some teams in the A-10. But that's not how things work.
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2018 11:56 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
01-15-2018 11:42 PM
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RobtheAggie Offline
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Post: #73
RE: America East, A-10 and CAA consolidate?
One thing, Fordham is pretty strong in some other non-revenue sports. Their men's soccer team made a nice run this season in the NCAA Tournament. I know that is a minor thing, but overall athletic program does play into decision making.
01-16-2018 04:53 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #74
RE: America East, A-10 and CAA consolidate?
(01-15-2018 11:42 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(01-15-2018 02:52 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I don't see more northeastern schools getting into the A10. Siena and Hofstra have been trying for ages...if it happens for them, it's because the conference is virtually gutted of anything relevant.

It would be interesting what Davidson would lobby for. CoC maybe. I personally don't understand the appeal for basketball prestige (they were good in ASun, and it's like we've been waiting for them ever since to really emerge in SoCon and CAA) over UNCW, but CoC pushes the border south and into a good coastal city.

Siena is actually perceived by many in the league as the number 1 target if there's an opening. I don't get it either. But there are some connected people on the A-10 board that seem to be very confident of that fact. Every team in the CAA would take a A-10 bid if offered. Every team in the America East would do the same. Just like every team in the A-10 would take a bid to the Big East.

Regarding Siena. They have the advantage of being close, but not too close, to many of our existing teams. St Bona really wants them. Fordham does too. So does UMass and URI. I don't think the southern teams really want an Albany based team in the league, but it might help with travel.

UNCW? Possible. But I'd guess that they'd be around 8th or 9th on the list. Ahead of JMU though. If Davidson left, then they'd be higher. Either way, the A-10 has 14 teams, and doesn't really need any more teams. College of Charleston? Probably around 8th or 9th.

BTW, UNCW and Charleston are probably better programs than some teams in the A-10. But that's not how things work.

I highly doubt you will get another northern team in the unless it is to replace a departing northern team like UMass. If St Louis were to leave there would likely be a push from the southern schools to replace with another school south of DC. There is a strong southern block of schools who must be taken into consideration. Sienna for St Louis' spot doesn't make any sense for southern schools
01-16-2018 06:42 AM
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Bogg Offline
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RE: America East, A-10 and CAA consolidate?
Maybe it's just me, but it seems like unless a program's at the point where they're potentially adding an at-large bid the A-10 doesn't really need to be adding anyone again until they dip below like 11 teams. Given that the only real plausible losses are St. Louis and/or Dayton to the BE and/or UMass to an FBS-sponsoring conference (although they appear to be AAC or bust, and I don't think that's happening) and MAYBE at some point Fordham deemphasizes athletics and goes to the Patriot (although I think that's very unlikely) they should probably just use it as an opportunity to consolidate their geography a bit and double down on developing their current brands.
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2018 09:13 AM by Bogg.)
01-16-2018 09:11 AM
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Post: #76
RE: America East, A-10 and CAA consolidate?
I realize that the point of this board is to perpetuate bonkers theories, but just to refute and clarify re: the AE and CAA.

1.) The name of the conference is "America East." Calling it "American East" is a pretty good sign you don't know what you are talking about.

2.) UVM or Hartford aren't these rogue holdouts who don't want AE to sponsor football because they don't sponsor the sport. Frankly, I bet they either don't care, or would love their basketball rivals to lose more money on football so they have an easier go in basketball. You know who are at the top of the list for not wanting a New England/New York based AE football conference? Maine, New Hampshire, Stony Brook and Albany. They love being in a conference with Delaware, Villanova, Richmond, JMU, etc. The CAA is one of the top two FCS football leagues. AE football wouldn't be. Maine, in particular, recruits New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Virginia more than Massachusetts and the other New England states. They are in the football conference they want to be in.

3.) BU didn't kill AE football. Neither did Northeastern. You know what killed AE football? Delaware, Hofstra, Towson and Drexel leaving the league for the CAA. If they had stayed, the conference makeup for football would likely be identical but the banner would be "America East" not "CAA." When they left, the numbers shifted, and when the A-10 no longer had the most members, the CAA did. Either way, all schools are full members of the football conference. No affiliates.

4.) BU DID kill AE hockey. Word was that BC and Providence were okay with Hockey East becoming some version of America East, but BU had it's foot out the door already (or had dreams of leaving) and didn't want to sacrifice any of its power in the hockey league office.

5.) BU isn't keeping NU out of the Patriot- NU's academics and not so distant past as a commuter school are. BU is barely within the parameters of what the Patriot wants its members to be (if you squint) as the only large city school in the conference (BU is twice the size of American), Northeastern is BU with inferior academics. NU left the AE for the CAA when the CAA still had ODU, VCU and GMU and thought it was moving to a top flight basketball league. Obviously, that didn't shake out. They are still strivers though, and they aren't going to park their sports in the Patriot League that doesn't aspire to much athletically. BU left AE because they finally realized they weren't getting into the A-10. They wanted their sports to raise the school's profile, and when they realized that wasn't happening, they decided to leverage their decent athletics for an association with better educational institutions.

6.) Long story short, these are all one bid conferences in basketball and most other sports besides football, men's soccer, and ice hockey. Why the heck would they merge and make it harder for their members to get automatic bids? There's no huge check waiting for anyone if they combine and provide games for someone to air. The AE is a geographically compact group of northeast publics. You have the flagships of three small states (Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont). You have the "second" state school of Massachusetts and Maryland. You have the three non-Buffalo D-I SUNYs. And there's Hartford who are a bit of an academic outlier but are a good league citizen. Maybe CCSU fits better, but they have nowhere to put football if they leave the NEC, so whatever.

Maybe Stony Brook or Albany gets a wandering eye thinking they could be FBS (not happening unless they get big donors, the state legislature isn't letting the money flow, and Binghamton's basketball scandal encouraged all three SUNYs to adopt a "stay in your lane" mentality with their athletics), but CAA doesn't get them much. Instead of beating each other and Vermont they would have to beat each other, UNCW and about six more schools to win the basketball league, and take a lot more flights to do it.
01-16-2018 09:40 AM
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dbackjon Offline
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RE: America East, A-10 and CAA consolidate?
Excellent post and welcome, CCD
01-16-2018 11:50 AM
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Erictelevision Offline
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RE: America East, A-10 and CAA consolidate?
2nd! I especially agree with his comparison of BU to N'eastern. (I live near Boston)
01-16-2018 12:36 PM
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sctvman Offline
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Post: #79
RE: America East, A-10 and CAA consolidate?
Talking about this, CofC and UNCW’s main goals are probably the A-10. CofC has a growing market (almost 800K metro area), and a rather young alumni base (the school was 500 students until about 1970). UNCW has the basketball pedigree and is the only team in their market.

The CAA is still a very good league but their TV structure is taking them down some. CofC and Elon moved because of trying to get more exposure up north and TV. CofC has done a great job as every road game they have in one of the northern cities, they host an event for prospective students and their families.

The SoCon TV package the last year we were in the league (2012-13) was PUBLIC television (and mostly sub-channels at that). The local TV package we had in Charleston was better than the conference package.

We went to the CAA and NBCSN had their package done from when before the VA schools left (9 or so regular season games). They dropped that after 15-16 but ASN picked up some games the last 2 years before they were merged into Stadium. Then CSN dropped us except for a few local games for this season.

The entire league this year has about 50 or so TV exposures combined. We have an 12-game online “package” on CollegeSports Live (basically CBS’s version of ESPN3), a few Delaware games on NBC’s Philly channel, a few Northeastern games on NESN (as a package deal with hockey), and that is it. The league signed the CSL deal to get the semis and finals of the basketball tourney on CBSSN.
01-20-2018 02:17 AM
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RE: America East, A-10 and CAA consolidate?
(01-16-2018 06:42 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-15-2018 11:42 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(01-15-2018 02:52 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I don't see more northeastern schools getting into the A10. Siena and Hofstra have been trying for ages...if it happens for them, it's because the conference is virtually gutted of anything relevant.

It would be interesting what Davidson would lobby for. CoC maybe. I personally don't understand the appeal for basketball prestige (they were good in ASun, and it's like we've been waiting for them ever since to really emerge in SoCon and CAA) over UNCW, but CoC pushes the border south and into a good coastal city.

Siena is actually perceived by many in the league as the number 1 target if there's an opening. I don't get it either. But there are some connected people on the A-10 board that seem to be very confident of that fact. Every team in the CAA would take a A-10 bid if offered. Every team in the America East would do the same. Just like every team in the A-10 would take a bid to the Big East.

Regarding Siena. They have the advantage of being close, but not too close, to many of our existing teams. St Bona really wants them. Fordham does too. So does UMass and URI. I don't think the southern teams really want an Albany based team in the league, but it might help with travel.

UNCW? Possible. But I'd guess that they'd be around 8th or 9th on the list. Ahead of JMU though. If Davidson left, then they'd be higher. Either way, the A-10 has 14 teams, and doesn't really need any more teams. College of Charleston? Probably around 8th or 9th.

BTW, UNCW and Charleston are probably better programs than some teams in the A-10. But that's not how things work.

I highly doubt you will get another northern team in the unless it is to replace a departing northern team like UMass. If St Louis were to leave there would likely be a push from the southern schools to replace with another school south of DC. There is a strong southern block of schools who must be taken into consideration. Sienna for St Louis' spot doesn't make any sense for southern schools

There are three members south of the DMV. There is no strong southern block of schools in the A10.

As I posted previously the other schools vetted when Davidson was added are all members of the MAAC. That information comes from a relative who is a former La Salle BoT member. When Temple, Xavier and Butler departed the A10 presidents decided to shift their focus going forward to have as geographically compact a conference as possible. They want a bus league.

That said student recruitment is a factor in the A10’s evaluation process. Davidson was valued not just for their basketball prowess but also for being in the Charlotte metro. The presidents wanted to maintain a presence in that area because unlike the states in the Northeast it has a growing school age population. For that reason I think that CoC would get serious consideration if a school has to be replaced and Davidson did lobby hard for CoC to be added along with them. Nevertheless, Siena and Iona were the top choices if Davidson didn’t join the A10 and I don’t think anything has changed since then.
(This post was last modified: 01-20-2018 11:04 AM by LostInSpace.)
01-20-2018 10:29 AM
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