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Killing the BIG XII
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msm96wolf Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Killing the BIG XII
(01-11-2018 08:26 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  School (destination)

ISU (MAC)
KU (B1G)
KSU (MWC)
OU,OSU,TT,UT (PAC-XII)
WVU (AAC)
Baylor,TCU (SEC)

Everyone reasonably happy, nobody in ridiculously isolated situation.

Not sure these schools will go quietly away from P5 money.
01-11-2018 07:03 PM
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Erictelevision Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Killing the BIG XII
WVU is the only power going to a G5.
01-11-2018 07:56 PM
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ColKurtz Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Killing the BIG XII
(01-11-2018 07:56 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  WVU is the only power going to a G5.

WVU has a better chance than ISU, K-State, and Baylor. They could be ND's +1 if the Irish ever fully joined the ACC, and could be a dark horse as someone's +1 to the SEC.
01-11-2018 08:26 PM
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hawghiggs Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Killing the BIG XII
Within the next few 3-5 seasons we will know if there is a plan to expand the playoff. If this happens we could see several new conferences formed. Especially if they go to an 8 team playoff.

The New SWC

1, Arkansas
2, Houston
3, Kansas
4, New Mexico
5, Oklahoma
6, Oklahoma state
7, TCU
8, Texas
9, Texas A&M
10, Texas Tech
01-11-2018 11:59 PM
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Erictelevision Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Killing the BIG XII
That's a great conference!
01-12-2018 12:02 AM
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CarlSmithCenter Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Killing the BIG XII
(01-11-2018 11:59 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  Within the next few 3-5 seasons we will know if there is a plan to expand the playoff. If this happens we could see several new conferences formed. Especially if they go to an 8 team playoff.

The New SWC

1, Arkansas
2, Houston
3, Kansas
4, New Mexico
5, Oklahoma
6, Oklahoma state
7, TCU
8, Texas
9, Texas A&M
10, Texas Tech

Why would Arkansas volunteer to become the tenth-best basketball program in a hoops first league?
01-12-2018 01:04 AM
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ArQ Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Killing the BIG XII
(01-11-2018 09:34 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 08:26 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  School (destination)

ISU (MAC)
KU (B1G)
KSU (MWC)
OU,OSU,TT,UT (PAC-XII)
WVU (AAC)
Baylor,TCU (SEC)

Everyone reasonably happy, nobody in ridiculously isolated situation.

My guess is that if the B1G and SEC were to "get" those schools while the PAC gets the cream of the crop, neither will be happy.

Still not sure why schools like OU & TX would choose the PAC when they'll have numerous options, all of which would be better.

Only OU, OSU, TT, UT and KU will find a new home in P5. However, the remaining five will raid AAC then keep Big 12 name. Cincinnati, UConn, Houston, Tulane will be in Big 12. Probably also USF, UCF and Tulsa.
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2018 08:50 AM by ArQ.)
01-12-2018 01:10 AM
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CarlSmithCenter Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Killing the BIG XII
(01-12-2018 01:10 AM)ArQ Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 09:34 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 08:26 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  School (destination)

ISU (MAC)
KU (B1G)
KSU (MWC)
OU,OSU,TT,UT (PAC-XII)
WVU (AAC)
Baylor,TCU (SEC)

Everyone reasonably happy, nobody in ridiculously isolated situation.

My guess is that if the B1G and SEC were to "get" those schools while the PAC gets the cream of the crop, neither will be happy.

Still not sure why schools like OU & TX would choose the PAC when they'll have numerous options, all of which would be better.

Only OU, OSU, TT, UT and KU will find a new home in P5. However, the remaining five will raid AAU then keep Big 12 name. Cincinnati, UConn, Houston, Tulane will be in Big 12. Probably also USF, UCF and Tulsa.

Texas politics aside, TCU is much better positioned than Texas Tech. Different part of Texas than A&M, better TV market, better airport/travel infrastructure, better football, basketball, baseball and academics. TTU is fixin to get the shaft like Rice, Houston, SMU and TCU got when the SWC collapsed.
01-12-2018 01:31 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Killing the BIG XII
(01-11-2018 07:03 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 08:26 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  School (destination)

ISU (MAC)
KU (B1G)
KSU (MWC)
OU,OSU,TT,UT (PAC-XII)
WVU (AAC)
Baylor,TCU (SEC)

Everyone reasonably happy, nobody in ridiculously isolated situation.

Not sure these schools will go quietly away from P5 money.

Nobody will voluntarily go from the P5 to the G5, but they might not have a choice - like USF, UConn and Cincy in 2012.
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2018 07:55 AM by quo vadis.)
01-12-2018 07:54 AM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Killing the BIG XII
(01-11-2018 11:59 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  Within the next few 3-5 seasons we will know if there is a plan to expand the playoff. If this happens we could see several new conferences formed. Especially if they go to an 8 team playoff.

The New SWC

1, Arkansas
2, Houston
3, Kansas
4, New Mexico
5, Oklahoma
6, Oklahoma state
7, TCU
8, Texas
9, Texas A&M
10, Texas Tech

A&M would never leave the SEC for that conference. It would suffer all the problems of the SWC and B12 only worse. TV is still TV and will NOT pay top dollar for that leagues tiny footprint and football games no one outside 3 states (2 of which are small) even bother to tune in for. Recruiting is recruiting and that league would dilute it so badly in Texas that no one would ever get enough to be competitive nationally (see final stretch of the SWC)

The SWC was fun but the experiment of "all the eggs in one basket" just doesn't work in modern CFB
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2018 12:01 PM by 10thMountain.)
01-12-2018 08:27 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Killing the BIG XII
(01-11-2018 11:59 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  Within the next few 3-5 seasons we will know if there is a plan to expand the playoff. If this happens we could see several new conferences formed. Especially if they go to an 8 team playoff.

The New SWC

1, Arkansas

You're a Hawgs fan ... is there any sentiment within the Hawg nation to leave the SEC?

Really?
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2018 08:56 AM by quo vadis.)
01-12-2018 08:55 AM
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BadgerMJ Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Killing the BIG XII
(01-11-2018 02:54 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 09:36 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 09:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Why is the Big 12 always the target here?

Big 12 is making money hand over fist, and on the football field they had an excellent year. All systems go ... 07-coffee3

For now.

In 4-5 years when new contracts are being negotiated and they won't be getting paid to NOT expand, we'll see.

Not to mention the lack of a conference network which the other P4 all have.

Remember, the last time the Big 12 negotiated media and bowl contracts was from late 2011 to mid-2012, shortly after TAMU and Missouri bolted, and just two years after Nebraska and Colorado bolted. The conference looked like it would be dismembered any day then.

And yet they signed deals worth as much as any other P5 conference.

It's hard to imagine that in 2025 the Big 12 can possibly be worse off than it was in 2011 - 2012, so I will believe that the Big 12 will sign deals then that will make it obviously no longer competitive with other P5 .... when i see it.

But not until then. 07-coffee3

It's all going to boil down to what the networks want.

If they feel that it's in their best interests to cull the cream of the crop from the XII and slide them into other conferences they'll simply lowball the XII come contract time.

No one outside of ESPN/Fox is going to bid against themselves when they don't have to worry about the big 2. There's no way OU & TX are going to accept second fiddle money to stay when the SEC & B1G have their checkbooks out.

I honestly don't think the movers & shakers care what the K-States and ISUs of the world think.
01-12-2018 09:13 AM
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CardFan1 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Killing the BIG XII
(01-11-2018 08:57 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Sometimes I wonder if people grasp just how far from the California schools like UT and OU are.

I also think in that situation both TCU and Baylor get left out instead of go to the SEC.

Lol Texas is way more in tune to the East, South than anything going on out West.
01-12-2018 04:51 PM
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Post: #54
RE: Killing the BIG XII
(01-12-2018 04:51 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 08:57 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Sometimes I wonder if people grasp just how far from the California schools like UT and OU are.

I also think in that situation both TCU and Baylor get left out instead of go to the SEC.

Lol Texas is way more in tune to the East, South than anything going on out West.

I'd say Texas dances to it's own tune... and I'm not just talking about the school.
01-12-2018 04:58 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Killing the BIG XII
(01-12-2018 09:13 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 02:54 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 09:36 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 09:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Why is the Big 12 always the target here?

Big 12 is making money hand over fist, and on the football field they had an excellent year. All systems go ... 07-coffee3

For now.

In 4-5 years when new contracts are being negotiated and they won't be getting paid to NOT expand, we'll see.

Not to mention the lack of a conference network which the other P4 all have.

Remember, the last time the Big 12 negotiated media and bowl contracts was from late 2011 to mid-2012, shortly after TAMU and Missouri bolted, and just two years after Nebraska and Colorado bolted. The conference looked like it would be dismembered any day then.

And yet they signed deals worth as much as any other P5 conference.

It's hard to imagine that in 2025 the Big 12 can possibly be worse off than it was in 2011 - 2012, so I will believe that the Big 12 will sign deals then that will make it obviously no longer competitive with other P5 .... when i see it.

But not until then. 07-coffee3

It's all going to boil down to what the networks want.

If they feel that it's in their best interests to cull the cream of the crop from the XII and slide them into other conferences they'll simply lowball the XII come contract time.

No one outside of ESPN/Fox is going to bid against themselves when they don't have to worry about the big 2. There's no way OU & TX are going to accept second fiddle money to stay when the SEC & B1G have their checkbooks out.

I honestly don't think the movers & shakers care what the K-States and ISUs of the world think.

Yes, Texas and Oklahoma call the shots and are the big enchiladas for TV. But, again, that's also the way it was in 2011 - 2012, and yet the networks were willing to pony up equal P5 money then.

And FWIW, I don't think networks have ever been the impetus in these moves. They've played a reactive roll - e.g., it was clear as a bell that ESPN didn't want the Big 12 to expand last year and paid them not to. But no network egged on the B1G to raid the Big 12, or the ACC to raid the Big East, or was behind the PAC trying to gobble up the Big 12.

Those moves came from the growth-driven desires of the conference offices and the members they represented. Sure, they make those moves while thinking of how FOX or ESPN might react, but the networks themselves don't move chess pieces around.
01-12-2018 05:29 PM
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ohio1317 Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Killing the BIG XII
ESPN is going to do absolutely nothing to consolidate conference. They didn't want the last round of realignment. They basically ended up spending a lot more money for the same properties. In fact, they raised the Big 12 rates despite a less desirable product just to make sure the conference survived (lost largest market and a name brand school and, in the middle of a contract, saw per school rates increase).

Keep mind guys, the more concentrated power becomes in college football, the less power the networks have. Right now, ESPN may not want to lose a conference, but if it does, it can always pick up more of another conference to air. The fewer major conferences there are, the less that works and the more they are forced to pay to keep needed content.
01-12-2018 05:36 PM
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ohio1317 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Killing the BIG XII
(01-12-2018 05:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 09:13 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 02:54 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 09:36 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 09:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Why is the Big 12 always the target here?

Big 12 is making money hand over fist, and on the football field they had an excellent year. All systems go ... 07-coffee3

For now.

In 4-5 years when new contracts are being negotiated and they won't be getting paid to NOT expand, we'll see.

Not to mention the lack of a conference network which the other P4 all have.

Remember, the last time the Big 12 negotiated media and bowl contracts was from late 2011 to mid-2012, shortly after TAMU and Missouri bolted, and just two years after Nebraska and Colorado bolted. The conference looked like it would be dismembered any day then.

And yet they signed deals worth as much as any other P5 conference.

It's hard to imagine that in 2025 the Big 12 can possibly be worse off than it was in 2011 - 2012, so I will believe that the Big 12 will sign deals then that will make it obviously no longer competitive with other P5 .... when i see it.

But not until then. 07-coffee3

It's all going to boil down to what the networks want.

If they feel that it's in their best interests to cull the cream of the crop from the XII and slide them into other conferences they'll simply lowball the XII come contract time.

No one outside of ESPN/Fox is going to bid against themselves when they don't have to worry about the big 2. There's no way OU & TX are going to accept second fiddle money to stay when the SEC & B1G have their checkbooks out.

I honestly don't think the movers & shakers care what the K-States and ISUs of the world think.

Yes, Texas and Oklahoma call the shots and are the big enchiladas for TV. But, again, that's also the way it was in 2011 - 2012, and yet the networks were willing to pony up equal P5 money then.

And FWIW, I don't think networks have ever been the impetus in these moves. They've played a reactive roll - e.g., it was clear as a bell that ESPN didn't want the Big 12 to expand last year and paid them not to. But no network egged on the B1G to raid the Big 12, or the ACC to raid the Big East, or was behind the PAC trying to gobble up the Big 12.

Those moves came from the growth-driven desires of the conference offices and the members they represented. Sure, they make those moves while thinking of how FOX or ESPN might react, but the networks themselves don't move chess pieces around.

Exactly
01-12-2018 05:37 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Killing the BIG XII
(01-12-2018 04:58 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 04:51 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 08:57 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Sometimes I wonder if people grasp just how far from the California schools like UT and OU are.

I also think in that situation both TCU and Baylor get left out instead of go to the SEC.

Lol Texas is way more in tune to the East, South than anything going on out West.

I'd say Texas dances to it's own tune... and I'm not just talking about the school.

You are correct. They are always doing the two step and the tune is perpetually the Cotton Eyed Joe. That's why you can't pin them down, and they get tedious to deal with so quickly.
01-12-2018 05:37 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Killing the BIG XII
(01-12-2018 05:37 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 05:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 09:13 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 02:54 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 09:36 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  For now.

In 4-5 years when new contracts are being negotiated and they won't be getting paid to NOT expand, we'll see.

Not to mention the lack of a conference network which the other P4 all have.

Remember, the last time the Big 12 negotiated media and bowl contracts was from late 2011 to mid-2012, shortly after TAMU and Missouri bolted, and just two years after Nebraska and Colorado bolted. The conference looked like it would be dismembered any day then.

And yet they signed deals worth as much as any other P5 conference.

It's hard to imagine that in 2025 the Big 12 can possibly be worse off than it was in 2011 - 2012, so I will believe that the Big 12 will sign deals then that will make it obviously no longer competitive with other P5 .... when i see it.

But not until then. 07-coffee3

It's all going to boil down to what the networks want.

If they feel that it's in their best interests to cull the cream of the crop from the XII and slide them into other conferences they'll simply lowball the XII come contract time.

No one outside of ESPN/Fox is going to bid against themselves when they don't have to worry about the big 2. There's no way OU & TX are going to accept second fiddle money to stay when the SEC & B1G have their checkbooks out.

I honestly don't think the movers & shakers care what the K-States and ISUs of the world think.

Yes, Texas and Oklahoma call the shots and are the big enchiladas for TV. But, again, that's also the way it was in 2011 - 2012, and yet the networks were willing to pony up equal P5 money then.

And FWIW, I don't think networks have ever been the impetus in these moves. They've played a reactive roll - e.g., it was clear as a bell that ESPN didn't want the Big 12 to expand last year and paid them not to. But no network egged on the B1G to raid the Big 12, or the ACC to raid the Big East, or was behind the PAC trying to gobble up the Big 12.

Those moves came from the growth-driven desires of the conference offices and the members they represented. Sure, they make those moves while thinking of how FOX or ESPN might react, but the networks themselves don't move chess pieces around.

Exactly

Have you two met P.T. Barnum? Because he sure described your thinking on this. There's one born every minute!

So we will ignore the president of B.C., the protocol on Missouri to the SEC, the odd path of Poppa Bowden, the reasoning behind the LHN, the stonewalling of the carriage of the then independent Big 10 network, the present stonewalling of the PAC network with regards to carriage, and the use of the market model to try to bust up large state leverage in Florida, Texas, North Carolina and Virginia, and the inability of any conference to add a school without first getting an appraised value from the networks before they could issue an invitation, and all of this just so that we can believe that conferences that had not changed much for 100 years suddenly turned cannibalistic just for the hell of it? Priceless!
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2018 05:46 PM by JRsec.)
01-12-2018 05:40 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Killing the BIG XII
(01-12-2018 05:40 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 05:37 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 05:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 09:13 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(01-11-2018 02:54 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Remember, the last time the Big 12 negotiated media and bowl contracts was from late 2011 to mid-2012, shortly after TAMU and Missouri bolted, and just two years after Nebraska and Colorado bolted. The conference looked like it would be dismembered any day then.

And yet they signed deals worth as much as any other P5 conference.

It's hard to imagine that in 2025 the Big 12 can possibly be worse off than it was in 2011 - 2012, so I will believe that the Big 12 will sign deals then that will make it obviously no longer competitive with other P5 .... when i see it.

But not until then. 07-coffee3

It's all going to boil down to what the networks want.

If they feel that it's in their best interests to cull the cream of the crop from the XII and slide them into other conferences they'll simply lowball the XII come contract time.

No one outside of ESPN/Fox is going to bid against themselves when they don't have to worry about the big 2. There's no way OU & TX are going to accept second fiddle money to stay when the SEC & B1G have their checkbooks out.

I honestly don't think the movers & shakers care what the K-States and ISUs of the world think.

Yes, Texas and Oklahoma call the shots and are the big enchiladas for TV. But, again, that's also the way it was in 2011 - 2012, and yet the networks were willing to pony up equal P5 money then.

And FWIW, I don't think networks have ever been the impetus in these moves. They've played a reactive roll - e.g., it was clear as a bell that ESPN didn't want the Big 12 to expand last year and paid them not to. But no network egged on the B1G to raid the Big 12, or the ACC to raid the Big East, or was behind the PAC trying to gobble up the Big 12.

Those moves came from the growth-driven desires of the conference offices and the members they represented. Sure, they make those moves while thinking of how FOX or ESPN might react, but the networks themselves don't move chess pieces around.

Exactly

Have you two met P.T. Barnum? Because he sure described your thinking on this. There's one born every minute!

So we will ignore the president of B.C., the protocol on Missouri to the SEC, the odd path of Poppa Bowden, the reasoning behind the LHN, the stonewalling of the carriage of the then independent Big 10 network, the present stonewalling of the PAC network with regards to carriage, and the use of the market model to try to bust up large state leverage in Florida, Texas, North Carolina and Virginia, and the inability of any conference to add a school without first getting an appraised value from the networks before they could issue an invitation, and all of this just so that we can believe that conferences that had not changed much for 100 years suddenly turned cannibalistic just for the hell of it? Priceless!

I didn't say just for the hell of it. To the contrary, commissioners like Delany and Slive started taking a look at the rising value of college athletics, and saw opportunities for increasing the power and value of their conferences via expansion that they could take advantage of. That's why they pounced.
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2018 06:27 PM by quo vadis.)
01-12-2018 06:27 PM
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