Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
What Ifs of Allignment? GT and Tulane remain in the SEC
Author Message
Fighting Muskie Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,066
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 37
I Root For: Ohio St, MAC
Location:
Post: #1
What Ifs of Allignment? GT and Tulane remain in the SEC
Has anyone ever wondered where realignment would have been had GT and Tulane not left the SEC in the '60's?

The SEC would not have needed Arkansas and South Carolina in the early 90's to go to 12 and start a conference game.

If Arkansas stays in the SWC I think they get Baylor's spot when the Big 12 forms sending Baylor to either C-USA or the WAC.

if GT never goes to the ACC then things look a little bleaker for that conference when they lose South Carolina in '72. Does Florida St join a 7 member basketball league in the early 90's or do they join Big East football along with South Carolina and Miami?

Maybe it's the ACC that gets torn apart in the 2000s.
01-10-2018 05:35 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply

Wedge Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 13,257
Joined: May 2010
Reputation: 413
I Root For: California
Location: Bear Territory
Post: #2
RE: What Ifs of Allignment? GT and Tulane remain in the SEC
(01-10-2018 05:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If Arkansas stays in the SWC

... then maybe Broyles goes back to pestering his contacts in the Big 8 and gets Arkansas an invitation to that conference even before they add the Texas schools.

(01-10-2018 05:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  if GT never goes to the ACC then things look a little bleaker for that conference when they lose South Carolina in '72.

Don't think so. It took the ACC six years after South Carolina left to add GT anyway, so it's not as if they were panicking. The ACC could have added both Florida State and Miami at around the time they actually added FSU.
01-10-2018 06:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
solohawks Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,543
Joined: May 2008
Reputation: 239
I Root For: UNCW
Location: Wilmington, NC
Post: #3
RE: What Ifs of Allignment? GT and Tulane remain in the SEC
In the long run the ACC and the SEC swapped Ga Tech and South Carolina so not much would have changed
01-10-2018 06:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
TrueBlueDrew Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,600
Joined: Jun 2014
Reputation: 81
I Root For: GS Eagles
Location:
Post: #4
RE: What Ifs of Allignment? GT and Tulane remain in the SEC
From an academic and location perspective, I think GT is a much better fit in a conference with Miami, Duke, NC State, and Wake Forest than the SEC. I think Vandy and FSU should swap places to be honest.
01-10-2018 07:02 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
chargeradio Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,863
Joined: Mar 2007
Reputation: 76
I Root For: ALA, KY, USA
Location: Louisville, KY
Post: #5
RE: What Ifs of Allignment? GT and Tulane remain in the SEC
(01-10-2018 06:40 PM)solohawks Wrote:  In the long run the ACC and the SEC swapped Ga Tech and South Carolina so not much would have changed

Would the SEC have taken South Carolina instead of Missouri as #14?
01-10-2018 07:18 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply

solohawks Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,543
Joined: May 2008
Reputation: 239
I Root For: UNCW
Location: Wilmington, NC
Post: #6
RE: What Ifs of Allignment? GT and Tulane remain in the SEC
(01-10-2018 07:18 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  
(01-10-2018 06:40 PM)solohawks Wrote:  In the long run the ACC and the SEC swapped Ga Tech and South Carolina so not much would have changed

Would the SEC have taken South Carolina instead of Missouri as #14?

The ACC would have taken SC back if GA Tech had never left the SEC. Also Arkansas would be in the Big 12 with the Texas schools as SEC only went to 12 to get a championship game. Big 12 probably would have went to 14 to make room for Arkansas. One other SWC school would have gotten to tag along. My guess would be Houston
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2018 07:42 PM by solohawks.)
01-10-2018 07:39 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Erictelevision Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 820
Joined: Jan 2016
Reputation: 10
I Root For: Uconn hoops
Location:
Post: #7
RE: What Ifs of Allignment? GT and Tulane remain in the SEC
Does the Pony Excess scandal still happen in this timeline? Because if so, the SWC still has a 2 year window of messed up scheduling. Arkansas used that as a smokescreen to jump to the SEC.
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2018 07:50 PM by Erictelevision.)
01-10-2018 07:48 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
_C2_ Offline
The King of Overanalysis
*

Posts: 18,978
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 364
I Root For: Houston
Location: Near Seawall Town
Post: #8
RE: What Ifs of Allignment? GT and Tulane remain in the SEC
(01-10-2018 05:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Has anyone ever wondered where realignment would have been had GT and Tulane not left the SEC in the '60's?

The SEC would not have needed Arkansas and South Carolina in the early 90's to go to 12 and start a conference game.

If Arkansas stays in the SWC I think they get Baylor's spot when the Big 12 forms sending Baylor to either C-USA or the WAC.

if GT never goes to the ACC then things look a little bleaker for that conference when they lose South Carolina in '72. Does Florida St join a 7 member basketball league in the early 90's or do they join Big East football along with South Carolina and Miami?

Maybe it's the ACC that gets torn apart in the 2000s.

Arkansas would get Texas Tech's spot if anything.
01-10-2018 07:55 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
_C2_ Offline
The King of Overanalysis
*

Posts: 18,978
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 364
I Root For: Houston
Location: Near Seawall Town
Post: #9
RE: What Ifs of Allignment? GT and Tulane remain in the SEC
(01-10-2018 07:48 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Does the Pony Excess scandal still happen in this timeline? Because if so, the SWC still has a 2 year window of messed up scheduling. Arkansas used that as a smokescreen to jump to the SEC.

They did so because the SWC was a sinking ship.
01-10-2018 08:01 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply

Fighting Muskie Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,066
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 37
I Root For: Ohio St, MAC
Location:
Post: #10
RE: What Ifs of Allignment? GT and Tulane remain in the SEC
(01-10-2018 07:55 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(01-10-2018 05:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Has anyone ever wondered where realignment would have been had GT and Tulane not left the SEC in the '60's?

The SEC would not have needed Arkansas and South Carolina in the early 90's to go to 12 and start a conference game.

If Arkansas stays in the SWC I think they get Baylor's spot when the Big 12 forms sending Baylor to either C-USA or the WAC.

if GT never goes to the ACC then things look a little bleaker for that conference when they lose South Carolina in '72. Does Florida St join a 7 member basketball league in the early 90's or do they join Big East football along with South Carolina and Miami?

Maybe it's the ACC that gets torn apart in the 2000s.

Arkansas would get Texas Tech's spot if anything.

I don't think so. I think their was a pressure from the statehouse to keep the state schools together. Remember E. Gordon Gee and the "Tech" problem?
01-10-2018 08:33 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bullet Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 25,398
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 567
I Root For: Texas, UK, UGA
Location:
Post: #11
RE: What Ifs of Allignment? GT and Tulane remain in the SEC
(01-10-2018 08:33 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(01-10-2018 07:55 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(01-10-2018 05:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Has anyone ever wondered where realignment would have been had GT and Tulane not left the SEC in the '60's?

The SEC would not have needed Arkansas and South Carolina in the early 90's to go to 12 and start a conference game.

If Arkansas stays in the SWC I think they get Baylor's spot when the Big 12 forms sending Baylor to either C-USA or the WAC.

if GT never goes to the ACC then things look a little bleaker for that conference when they lose South Carolina in '72. Does Florida St join a 7 member basketball league in the early 90's or do they join Big East football along with South Carolina and Miami?

Maybe it's the ACC that gets torn apart in the 2000s.

Arkansas would get Texas Tech's spot if anything.

I don't think so. I think their was a pressure from the statehouse to keep the state schools together. Remember E. Gordon Gee and the "Tech" problem?

Tech and Baylor were safe. Arkansas would have either gotten Kansas St.'s slot or there would have been 14 with BYU or UNM as #14.
01-10-2018 08:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,066
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 37
I Root For: Ohio St, MAC
Location:
Post: #12
RE: What Ifs of Allignment? GT and Tulane remain in the SEC
(01-10-2018 07:48 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Does the Pony Excess scandal still happen in this timeline? Because if so, the SWC still has a 2 year window of messed up scheduling. Arkansas used that as a smokescreen to jump to the SEC.

With the SEC full my guess is that Arkansas lobbies the Big 8, likely joining in '92. Texas trio makes the league the Big 12 in '96 the same as our timeline.

Maybe Texas and A&M have the leverage to being in two more. Maybe BYU, rumored to be the preferred #12 gets in, along with Baylor. It's hard to say because no one was doing leagues larger than 12.
01-10-2018 08:54 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
hawghiggs Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,605
Joined: May 2008
Reputation: 121
I Root For: Arkansas
Location:
Post: #13
RE: What Ifs of Allignment? GT and Tulane remain in the SEC
Arkansas tried to join the Big 8 in the late 70's and was blocked by Nebraska. So I don't know if we would have had a place to go. Most likely would have worked with Houston, SMU, and TCU just to keep the SWC going.
01-10-2018 11:10 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply

Gamecock Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,905
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 73
I Root For: South Carolina
Location:
Post: #14
RE: What Ifs of Allignment? GT and Tulane remain in the SEC
While SC made overtures on and off to the ACC in the late 70s/early 80s, I still don't think the ACC would have taken us back and I don't think we would have pursued it after the early 90s.

I think you likely see us join the Big East with Miami, West Virginia, etc. and then probably are added to the SEC instead of Missouri in 2011/12
01-11-2018 09:10 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 21,360
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 613
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #15
RE: What Ifs of Allignment? GT and Tulane remain in the SEC
(01-10-2018 11:10 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  Arkansas tried to join the Big 8 in the late 70's and was blocked by Nebraska. So I don't know if we would have had a place to go. Most likely would have worked with Houston, SMU, and TCU just to keep the SWC going.

You forget what Orville Henry wrote a few years before Arkansas went to the SEC.

He said that Broyles believed the CFA was doomed and the future was conferences negotiating their own television.

To that end he put together a meeting of: Arkansas, Texas, Texas A&M, LSU, Nebraska, Missouri, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State to discuss creating a new conference that would negotiate its own television.

LSU wasn't interested but did take back what was put forward to the SEC membership.

Also remember SEC was interested in going to 14 or 16 when Arkansas came in. They were prepared to add Texas, TAMU, and Florida State (I'm told by a former AD that the AD's also wanted Miami but that was not acceptable to presidents since Miami was generating negative headlines then).

It is not a foregone conclusion that LSU would have had the same stance if Tulane had remained in the SEC.

It is also possible there may have never been a Big XII, it might have been the Big 14 with Arkansas and LSU coming in.

It's feasible that if LSU were more inclined to move that the SWC might have gone to 12, 14 or even 16.

The SEC entering the CFA era with Tulane and GT has a different dynamic. An SEC looking to add say Texas, TAMU, OU, OKST or Texas, TAMU, Houston, Tech might have been possible before there was a Baylor grad in the governor's office in Texas and while Houston was a stronger program.

I think assuming there are minor changes is misguided.
01-12-2018 11:14 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bluesox Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,589
Joined: Jan 2006
Reputation: 56
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #16
RE: What Ifs of Allignment? GT and Tulane remain in the SEC
Surprised Kansas and Colorado weren’t included, drop LSU and add those 2 that’s a very solid 9 team league + adding those 2 might have brought Nebraska onboard.
01-12-2018 11:38 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
georgia_tech_swagger Offline
Res publica non dominetur
*

Posts: 43,809
Joined: Feb 2002
Reputation: 1157
I Root For: GT, USCU, FU
Location: Upstate, SC

SkunkworksFolding@NCAAbbsNCAAbbs LUGCrappies
Post: #17
RE: What Ifs of Allignment? GT and Tulane remain in the SEC
If Arkansas also ends up in the Big 12 ultimately, that means Missouri and TAMU probably stay in the Big 12 and who knows regarding Nebraska. But that also means that SEC expansion would have to be out of the ACC.

LSU
Tulane
Ole Miss
Miss State

Alabama
Auburn
Georgia Tech
Georgia

Vanderbilt
Tennessee
Kentucky
Louisville

Florida
Florida State
Clemson
South Carolina



... Not too bad ...


And if you truly wanted to wall off the region:

LSU
Tulane
Ole Miss
Miss State
Alabama

Auburn
Vanderbilt
Tennessee
Kentucky
Louisville


Georgia Tech
Georgia
Clemson
South Carolina
Wake Forest

Virginia
Virginia Tech
Duke
NC State
North Carolina
01-12-2018 04:21 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply

JRsec Offline
Super Moderator
*

Posts: 15,260
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 783
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #18
RE: What Ifs of Allignment? GT and Tulane remain in the SEC
(01-12-2018 04:21 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  If Arkansas also ends up in the Big 12 ultimately, that means Missouri and TAMU probably stay in the Big 12 and who knows regarding Nebraska. But that also means that SEC expansion would have to be out of the ACC.

LSU
Tulane
Ole Miss
Miss State

Alabama
Auburn
Georgia Tech
Georgia

Vanderbilt
Tennessee
Kentucky
Louisville

Florida
Florida State
Clemson
South Carolina



... Not too bad ...


And if you truly wanted to wall off the region:

LSU
Tulane
Ole Miss
Miss State
Alabama

Auburn
Vanderbilt
Tennessee
Kentucky
Louisville


Georgia Tech
Georgia
Clemson
South Carolina
Wake Forest

Virginia
Virginia Tech
Duke
NC State
North Carolina

That would have made the most sense and given all of those schools huge leverage when it came to contracts, which of course is why ESPN never encouraged it, and indeed worked against it. And although I like your divisions here I have to wonder if we would have taken Louisville with Miami still to be taken. Remember at that time the Canes hands down were the better property.

And remember, that with the move to streaming regional games of interest have value even within a duplicated market, so theoretically it is still doable.

Besides, I would much rather watch Auburn play that list than most others. And I might add that it is relatively balanced between contenders, run makers, middlers, occasional bowl goers, and cellar dwellers.
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2018 04:54 PM by JRsec.)
01-12-2018 04:50 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
OdinFrigg Offline
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 125
Joined: Oct 2017
Reputation: 8
I Root For: SEC &others
Location:
Post: #19
RE: What Ifs of Allignment? GT and Tulane remain in the SEC
(01-11-2018 09:10 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  While SC made overtures on and off to the ACC in the late 70s/early 80s, I still don't think the ACC would have taken us back and I don't think we would have pursued it after the early 90s.

I think you likely see us join the Big East with Miami, West Virginia, etc. and then probably are added to the SEC instead of Missouri in 2011/12
An interesting old tidbit:
When South Carolina received an SEC invitation (90), the ACC had an official from NCSU (ties to S.C.) to see if South Carolina would consider returning to the ACC. This was way too late, and it probably had a PR dimension to it. S.C. said thanks for asking, but no thanks.
01-18-2018 07:02 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2018 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2018 MyBB Group.