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Can Nathan Knight be the best WMBB player of all time?
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TribePride52 Offline
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Post: #1
Can Nathan Knight be the best WMBB player of all time?
Sounds crazy to ask this early, but he has been the best player on this team and it’s not close. We aren’t the same without him. If he keeps playing like this for the next 2 years it has to be considered. Here is a video done informing the world about him:
https://t.co/xj4tmePdUw
01-10-2018 03:50 PM
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TribePride91 Offline
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RE: Can Nathan Knight be the best WMBB player of all time?
Why can't we just appreciate the season he is having and the type of person he appears to be? He, and the rest of the guys appear to be very humble and unselfish and are playing great together. We can assess his place in Tribe lore after his time is completed(or at least after the season). No question he is a candidate for POY, but we have only played 4 conference games.
01-10-2018 03:55 PM
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WM Beancounter Offline
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RE: Can Nathan Knight be the best WMBB player of all time?
Ugh. Just not a fan of this thread, TribePride52. You were right with the first 6 words of your post, and you should have followed that instinct to its logical conclusion.
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2018 04:25 PM by WM Beancounter.)
01-10-2018 04:23 PM
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zablenoise Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Can Nathan Knight be the best WMBB player of all time?
Sure why not? Nate is awesome.
01-10-2018 06:32 PM
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TribePride52 Offline
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RE: Can Nathan Knight be the best WMBB player of all time?
I know this is a controversial topic. I just wanted to see people’s opinions. This is premature but like I said he’s been playing insane this year and was really good last year as a true freshman.
01-10-2018 07:12 PM
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Rocco Offline
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RE: Can Nathan Knight be the best WMBB player of all time?
Just looking at Win Shares, which only goes back to 1995:

Quinn McDowell: 13.9
Prewitt: 13.3
Moran: 12.6
Tarpey: 12.0
Thornton: 10.8
Schneider: 10.2
Rusthoven: 10.2
Dixon: 8.9
Bracy: 8.4
Hess: 7.8 (just at W&M)
Knight: 4.7 (and counting)

Win Shares (like most advanced metrics) is a blunt tool not meant for precise delineations. If two players are within a win of each other you could make an argument for either one. I was a little shocked to see McDowell atop the list. My personal pick is Moran but I'm biased because I watched him and he had no help.
01-10-2018 08:38 PM
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TribeFan1984 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Can Nathan Knight be the best WMBB player of all time?
Can he? Of course. Will he? I look forward to finding out.
01-10-2018 09:02 PM
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zablenoise Offline
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RE: Can Nathan Knight be the best WMBB player of all time?
(01-10-2018 08:38 PM)Rocco Wrote:  Just looking at Win Shares, which only goes back to 1995:

Quinn McDowell: 13.9
Prewitt: 13.3
Moran: 12.6
Tarpey: 12.0
Thornton: 10.8
Schneider: 10.2
Rusthoven: 10.2
Dixon: 8.9
Bracy: 8.4
Hess: 7.8 (just at W&M)
Knight: 4.7 (and counting)

Win Shares (like most advanced metrics) is a blunt tool not meant for precise delineations. If two players are within a win of each other you could make an argument for either one. I was a little shocked to see McDowell atop the list. My personal pick is Moran but I'm biased because I watched him and he had no help.

That list is a mess. Do you know the formula behind win shares because I seriously judge any metric that has Quinn McDowell as the best player in since 1995.
01-10-2018 09:51 PM
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Rocco Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Can Nathan Knight be the best WMBB player of all time?
(01-10-2018 09:51 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  
(01-10-2018 08:38 PM)Rocco Wrote:  Just looking at Win Shares, which only goes back to 1995:

Quinn McDowell: 13.9
Prewitt: 13.3
Moran: 12.6
Tarpey: 12.0
Thornton: 10.8
Schneider: 10.2
Rusthoven: 10.2
Dixon: 8.9
Bracy: 8.4
Hess: 7.8 (just at W&M)
Knight: 4.7 (and counting)

Win Shares (like most advanced metrics) is a blunt tool not meant for precise delineations. If two players are within a win of each other you could make an argument for either one. I was a little shocked to see McDowell atop the list. My personal pick is Moran but I'm biased because I watched him and he had no help.

That list is a mess. Do you know the formula behind win shares because I seriously judge any metric that has Quinn McDowell as the best player in since 1995.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/about/ws.html

McDowell's sophomore and junior years were really good and senior year was pedestrian. He forgot how to shoot as a senior. Also W&M played at a slower tempo those years then they do now so that probably makes his numbers look better (lots of points on fewer possessions). I don't buy it either. If I'm picking an all-time W&M team I'm probably picking everyone on that list ahead of him, and that's not meant as a dig at McDowell.
01-10-2018 10:34 PM
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wmmii Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Can Nathan Knight be the best WMBB player of all time?
Premature yes. Answer in 2 years from now will be known. if you want to dream then think BIG-Comparison to contemplate would be when Dave Robinson played at Navy in our league.

Check out Dave's stats in CAA:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla...son-1.html
01-11-2018 08:01 AM
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NC Tribe Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Can Nathan Knight be the best WMBB player of all time?
(01-11-2018 08:01 AM)wmmii Wrote:  Premature yes. Answer in 2 years from now will be known. if you want to dream then think BIG-Comparison to contemplate would be when Dave Robinson played at Navy in our league.

Check out Dave's stats in CAA:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla...son-1.html

The funniest stat on Robinson is the 100% on 3 pointers for his college career. That includes a half court shot at the buzzer against JMU in the Convo to win a regular season game against the Dukes. He scored 47 points each of his two games against JMU that year. the only game he scored more was 50 against Michigan in the NCAA tourney in a loss his senior year.

Hard to compare a 6'10" player today to a 7' player 30 years ago. A heck of a lot more tall guys now than there used to be. Robinson was routinely guarded by 6'5" and 6'6" in CAA games back then. His only real challenge in conference was Rowsom at UNCW, who I beleive also saw some time in the NBA.
01-11-2018 08:19 AM
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Tribe32 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Can Nathan Knight be the best WMBB player of all time?
I saw Robinson play for four years and believe it or not, he played a lot around the key and not just down low. They had a bruiser who played center at about 6'7" and 250 pounds named Vernon Butler who did all of the dirty work. Robinson would have killed it in Tony's offense. I think Robinson had more pure power than Knight, but Knight is a much better ball handler. Robinson only averaged about 7 points and 5 rebounds as a freshman
01-11-2018 01:02 PM
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namtrag Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Can Nathan Knight be the best WMBB player of all time?
I will just have to interject a player from my day who would have averaged at least 22-25 ppg if there had been 3 point shots back then. I may not be remembering correctly, but many of his shots were from what would be 3 point range today.

Keith Cieplicki. Career 54% fg as a guard, 16.0 ppg for his 4 years, and 20.2 ppg as a senior. This was in a 60 ppg offense.

He and Michael Strayhorn were awesome in tandom.

I think Nathan is special, though, and he really does have the potential to be our best ever player.
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2018 05:34 PM by namtrag.)
01-11-2018 05:17 PM
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tribeinexile Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Can Nathan Knight be the best WMBB player of all time?
I probably got the years wrong so forgive me if I’m making stuff up.

We had a year, I think after 1983 but before the 3-point shot, with Cieplicki, Coval and Traver. I always thought that would have been a tremendous team under the new rule and Traver would have benefited the most.

I don’t think that team had Strayhorn so it wasn’t a terribly athletic team (sound familiar?). And Shaver allows the current team to push the ball up court to create open shots. That wasn’t Parkhill’s style.
01-11-2018 05:41 PM
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namtrag Offline
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RE: Can Nathan Knight be the best WMBB player of all time?
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2018 05:47 PM by namtrag.)
01-11-2018 05:46 PM
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TribeInTheBurg Offline
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RE: Can Nathan Knight be the best WMBB player of all time?
(01-10-2018 10:34 PM)Rocco Wrote:  
(01-10-2018 09:51 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  
(01-10-2018 08:38 PM)Rocco Wrote:  Just looking at Win Shares, which only goes back to 1995:

Quinn McDowell: 13.9
Prewitt: 13.3
Moran: 12.6
Tarpey: 12.0
Thornton: 10.8
Schneider: 10.2
Rusthoven: 10.2
Dixon: 8.9
Bracy: 8.4
Hess: 7.8 (just at W&M)
Knight: 4.7 (and counting)

Win Shares (like most advanced metrics) is a blunt tool not meant for precise delineations. If two players are within a win of each other you could make an argument for either one. I was a little shocked to see McDowell atop the list. My personal pick is Moran but I'm biased because I watched him and he had no help.

That list is a mess. Do you know the formula behind win shares because I seriously judge any metric that has Quinn McDowell as the best player in since 1995.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/about/ws.html

McDowell's sophomore and junior years were really good and senior year was pedestrian. He forgot how to shoot as a senior. Also W&M played at a slower tempo those years then they do now so that probably makes his numbers look better (lots of points on fewer possessions). I don't buy it either. If I'm picking an all-time W&M team I'm probably picking everyone on that list ahead of him, and that's not meant as a dig at McDowell.

Quinn benefits from the 2010 NIT team having lots of wins, and therefore win shares to go around, and from being the statistically best player on the 2011 team by a long shot, garnering 4+ WS when nobody else had 2. Those two seasons account for 8-9 of his 13.9 WS. The 2012 was Marcus Thornton's first, where Thornton actually went for negative WS because we were so bad. For win shares, the individual totals have to add up to the team win total. Bad teams get low win shares, but let's not derail this thread with discussions of why win shares is good or bad. This is why that list is as it is.

Back to this thread, absolutely Nathan can be the best player we've ever had. I would argue he is on that track. There's a lot of games between now and then, though.
01-11-2018 06:13 PM
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Tribeheart Online
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Can Nathan Knight be the best WMBB player of all time?
Nate was named yesterday to the Lou Henson Award mid-season watch list for the top mid-major player in the country, along with CofC's Joe Chealey and Towson's Zane Martin. That is a big slight to Hofstra's Justin Wright-Foreman, for my money.

http://www.louhenson.com

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01-12-2018 12:12 PM
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billymac Offline
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RE: Can Nathan Knight be the best WMBB player of all time?
(01-11-2018 05:17 PM)namtrag Wrote:  I will just have to interject a player from my day who would have averaged at least 22-25 ppg if there had been 3 point shots back then. I may not be remembering correctly, but many of his shots were from what would be 3 point range today.

Keith Cieplicki. Career 54% fg as a guard, 16.0 ppg for his 4 years, and 20.2 ppg as a senior. This was in a 60 ppg offense.

He and Michael Strayhorn were awesome in tandom.

I think Nathan is special, though, and he really does have the potential to be our best ever player.

Yeah, I believe you meant Kevin Richardson, who was quite a talent. He and Herb Harris gave us two strong rebounders inside and he, Keith, Tony (my call was always "T for Two"...) and others provided scoring. Tony and Keith would have both fit in easily in the 3 point era.
01-12-2018 03:02 PM
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NC Tribe Offline
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RE: Can Nathan Knight be the best WMBB player of all time?
(01-11-2018 05:41 PM)tribeinexile Wrote:  I probably got the years wrong so forgive me if I’m making stuff up.

We had a year, I think after 1983 but before the 3-point shot, with Cieplicki, Coval and Traver. I always thought that would have been a tremendous team under the new rule and Traver would have benefited the most.

I don’t think that team had Strayhorn so it wasn’t a terribly athletic team (sound familiar?). And Shaver allows the current team to push the ball up court to create open shots. That wasn’t Parkhill’s style.

Winder at Center, Strayhorn at forward, Ciepliki played point, Traver played shooting guard were starters in 82-83 season. I can't remember the 5th starter, but don't think it was Coval who was a freshmen that year. Ciepliki didn't get moved off point completely until his senior year. Someone on the board who has lost fewer "little grey cells" may be able to remember the 5th starter in that glorious season.
01-12-2018 03:11 PM
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Tribeheart Online
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Can Nathan Knight be the best WMBB player of all time?
82-83 starters were Cieplicki, Weidner, Strayhorn, Traver and Richardson.

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(This post was last modified: 01-12-2018 03:34 PM by Tribeheart.)
01-12-2018 03:34 PM
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