Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
Author Message
Bookmark and Share
okgc Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,928
Joined: Jul 2007
Reputation: 38
I Root For: WMU
Location:
Post: #21
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
That article was also Sunday front page of the Kalamazoo Gazette
01-08-2018 09:00 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BroncoPhilly Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 15,237
Joined: Apr 2007
Reputation: 74
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #22
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
I went to both schools. Bad leadership at WMU during the growth years of state colleges in Michigan during the 1960's and 1970's contributed to this. Presidents James W. Miller and John T. Bernhard presided during this period, most of the blame should go to Bernhard-IMO. They both lacked a vision of what WMU should be and could be.

With the exception of monumental mediocrity Judith Bailey, WMU has had good leadership since then-Haenicke, Floyd and Dunn all did a great job developing Western with respect to our regional college competitors-CMU and EMU. Montgomery gets his chance to show what he can do.

As for student population, it isn't all about that. University of Notre Dame only has 12,000 students, yet has prestige and impact far beyond that. True, they are a private school unconstrained with the implications of filling a role as state school.

Adding our Medical School and Law School were outstanding moves and projected Western's mission far beyond our compatriots in Mt. Pleasant and Ypsilanti. We've pushed to maintain our classification as a Research/Doctoral University, GVSU doesn't have the maturity, longevity or history to compete with Western on those terms.

Montgomery needs to focus on developing our schools and offerings like Dunn did. In the future WMU will be judged on the caliber of students we bring in, the quality of our research and the select nature of the programs we offer. When GVSU has an accredited Engineering School, a nationally recognized Flight School, a Medical School, a Law school and a Paper technology program-THEN they can pose a threat to Western. As it is now, they're just a large, liberal arts type college that caters largely to commuter students in Michigan's 2nd most populous city and THE most populous city in west Michigan.
01-08-2018 11:38 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GullLake Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,725
Joined: Jul 2015
Reputation: 45
I Root For: G5 programs
Location: My Lazy-Boy
Post: #23
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
(01-08-2018 11:38 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  I went to both schools. Bad leadership at WMU during the growth years of state colleges in Michigan during the 1960's and 1970's contributed to this. Presidents James W. Miller and John T. Bernhard presided during this period, most of the blame should go to Bernhard-IMO. They both lacked a vision of what WMU should be and could be.

With the exception of monumental mediocrity Judith Bailey, WMU has had good leadership since then-Haenicke, Floyd and Dunn all did a great job developing Western with respect to our regional college competitors-CMU and EMU. Montgomery gets his chance to show what he can do.

As for student population, it isn't all about that. University of Notre Dame only has 12,000 students, yet has prestige and impact far beyond that. True, they are a private school unconstrained with the implications of filling a role as state school.

Adding our Medical School and Law School were outstanding moves and projected Western's mission far beyond our compatriots in Mt. Pleasant and Ypsilanti. We've pushed to maintain our classification as a Research/Doctoral University, GVSU doesn't have the maturity, longevity or history to compete with Western on those terms.

Montgomery needs to focus on developing our schools and offerings like Dunn did. In the future WMU will be judged on the caliber of students we bring in, the quality of our research and the select nature of the programs we offer. When GVSU has an accredited Engineering School, a nationally recognized Flight School, a Medical School, a Law school and a Paper technology program-THEN they can pose a threat to Western. As it is now, they're just a large, liberal arts type college that caters largely to commuter students in Michigan's 2nd most populous city and THE most populous city in west Michigan.

Bottom-line, when a high school senior decides between WMU and GVSU, more go to GVSU.

For undergraduates, INSTRUCTION is the most important. WMU's classification as a research/doctoral university is irrelevant if the student feels he/she won't receive the attention/investment from faculty (full professors, not TAs) that would be provided at another institution.

And the WMU law school is a bad joke. We should cut our losses and invest that $ in outreach and undergrad admissions.
01-09-2018 09:38 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
broncofan1 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,288
Joined: Jan 2009
Reputation: 53
I Root For: Broncos
Location:
Post: #24
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
The law school affiliation is quickly becoming a detriment.
01-09-2018 10:02 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ColinApocalypse Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 5,812
Joined: Jul 2012
Reputation: 61
I Root For: WMU
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Post: #25
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
(01-09-2018 10:02 AM)broncofan1 Wrote:  The law school affiliation is quickly becoming a detriment.

Agreed. I appreciate that the university is trying to expand into a more prestigious institution by adding law and med schools, but at this point it seems like the admin only made the law school move so that they could say, "look, we have a law school!" Kind of like CMU with their med school.

WMU's med school on the other hand is set up for success and was a really great move. Downtown location right next to Bronson, and partnered with both Borgess and Bronson. Plus the huge support of the Stryker family. A+ work all around.
(This post was last modified: 01-09-2018 02:13 PM by ColinApocalypse.)
01-09-2018 01:57 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ColinApocalypse Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 5,812
Joined: Jul 2012
Reputation: 61
I Root For: WMU
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Post: #26
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
At least WMU has been taking steps in the right direction regarding campus. Tearing down Hoejke and Bigelow and rebuilding those dorms, building all the nice new Western Heights student apartments, new Sangren + surrounding area, Heritage Hall on East Campus (which is very nice!) + surrounding area, Stryker Med School, the new dining facility by the Valleys, the chemistry building, Richmond Center for the Arts, renovated Miller Plaza, finally tearing down McCracken (still a work in progress?), Floyd Hall on engineering campus, health and human services building. Those have all been great improvements to the campus over the past few years.

And they will be tearing down all the god awful Elmwood apartments and renovating that whole side of campus this year. There are also continuous talks about doing something with the Valleys.

Sooner or later they're going to have to do something about Bernhard. It never really bothered me while I was there, but as far as student centers go, and as the face of your university, it is stuffy, dilapidated, ugly, and just not a good fit for a modern campus. They should also tear down the rest of the stadium drive apartments and do something better with that space.

Campus is already 100X better than it was 10 years ago and will only continue to get better. They've been dumping a lot of money into construction, but it is much needed. I think it will pay huge dividends down the road.
(This post was last modified: 01-09-2018 02:22 PM by ColinApocalypse.)
01-09-2018 02:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
okgc Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,928
Joined: Jul 2007
Reputation: 38
I Root For: WMU
Location:
Post: #27
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
(01-09-2018 02:07 PM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  At least WMU has been taking steps in the right direction regarding campus. Tearing down Hoejke and Bigelow and rebuilding those dorms, building all the nice new Western Heights student apartments, new Sangren + surrounding area, Heritage Hall on East Campus (which is very nice!) + surrounding area, Stryker Med School, the new dining facility by the Valleys, the chemistry building, Richmond Center for the Arts, renovated Miller Plaza, finally tearing down McCracken (still a work in progress?), Floyd Hall on engineering campus, health and human services building. Those have all been great improvements to the campus over the past few years.

And they will be tearing down all the god awful Elmwood apartments and renovating that whole side of campus this year. There are also continuous talks about doing something with the Valleys.

Sooner or later they're going to have to do something about Bernhard. It never really bothered me while I was there, but as far as student centers go, and as the face of your university, it is stuffy, dilapidated, ugly, and just not a good fit for a modern campus. They should also tear down the rest of the stadium drive apartments and do something better with that space.

Campus is already 100X better than it was 10 years ago and will only continue to get better. They've been dumping a lot of money into construction, but it is much needed. I think it will pay huge dividends down the road.

The planned new WMU student center should open 2021.
01-09-2018 02:27 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ColinApocalypse Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 5,812
Joined: Jul 2012
Reputation: 61
I Root For: WMU
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Post: #28
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
(01-09-2018 02:27 PM)okgc Wrote:  
(01-09-2018 02:07 PM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  At least WMU has been taking steps in the right direction regarding campus. Tearing down Hoejke and Bigelow and rebuilding those dorms, building all the nice new Western Heights student apartments, new Sangren + surrounding area, Heritage Hall on East Campus (which is very nice!) + surrounding area, Stryker Med School, the new dining facility by the Valleys, the chemistry building, Richmond Center for the Arts, renovated Miller Plaza, finally tearing down McCracken (still a work in progress?), Floyd Hall on engineering campus, health and human services building. Those have all been great improvements to the campus over the past few years.

And they will be tearing down all the god awful Elmwood apartments and renovating that whole side of campus this year. There are also continuous talks about doing something with the Valleys.

Sooner or later they're going to have to do something about Bernhard. It never really bothered me while I was there, but as far as student centers go, and as the face of your university, it is stuffy, dilapidated, ugly, and just not a good fit for a modern campus. They should also tear down the rest of the stadium drive apartments and do something better with that space.

Campus is already 100X better than it was 10 years ago and will only continue to get better. They've been dumping a lot of money into construction, but it is much needed. I think it will pay huge dividends down the road.

The planned new WMU student center should open 2021.

I heard that it was in talks, but I didn't know anything was set in stone. Thanks for the info!
01-09-2018 02:38 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BroncoPhilly Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 15,237
Joined: Apr 2007
Reputation: 74
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #29
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
Quote:And the WMU law school is a bad joke. We should cut our losses and invest that $ in outreach and undergrad admissions.

Defend that statement with some arguments.

Any program offerings that distinguish Western from it's regional Michigan rivals is for the best. The program is accredited, so what's your beef?

Use the savings for outreach and undergrad Admissions? That's a pretty broad statement, but what is says to me is WMU needs to accept what it is and be more of what it has been in the past-a regional, 'no frills' university with standard offerings. In other words, be more like CMU, EMU, GVSU and SVSU. Yeah, that'll get the job done-NOT.

If we offer the same programs as GVSU, they will continue to increase in student population while we decrease. Why? Because there are a hell of a lot more folks in Kent/Ottaway/Muskegon County than there are in Metro-Kalamazoo. Why would anyone come from the GR region to attend school in Kalamazoo when they can leverage the exact same programs in their own backyard? They won't.

Western needs the professional programs to set us apart and make us attractive. That was the plan Haenicke and Dunn put together and it was the right move. We should do more of that, not less.
(This post was last modified: 01-09-2018 10:12 PM by BroncoPhilly.)
01-09-2018 10:11 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ColinApocalypse Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 5,812
Joined: Jul 2012
Reputation: 61
I Root For: WMU
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Post: #30
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
(01-09-2018 10:11 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  
Quote:And the WMU law school is a bad joke. We should cut our losses and invest that $ in outreach and undergrad admissions.

Defend that statement with some arguments.

Any program offerings that distinguish Western from it's regional Michigan rivals is for the best. The program is accredited, so what's your beef?

Use the savings for outreach and undergrad Admissions? That's a pretty broad statement, but what is says to me is WMU needs to accept what it is and be more of what it has been in the past-a regional, 'no frills' university with standard offerings. In other words, be more like CMU, EMU, GVSU and SVSU. Yeah, that'll get the job done-NOT.

If we offer the same programs as GVSU, they will continue to increase in student population while we decrease. Why? Because there are a hell of a lot more folks in Kent/Ottaway/Muskegon County than there are in Metro-Kalamazoo. Why would anyone come from the GR region to attend school in Kalamazoo when they can leverage the exact same programs in their own backyard? They won't.

Western needs the professional programs to set us apart and make us attractive. That was the plan Haenicke and Dunn put together and it was the right move. We should do more of that, not less.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Mi...reputation

Poor reputation, sanctions from the American Bar Association, lawsuits, plummeting enrollment, staff layoffs, poor post-graduation employment outlook, consistently ranked poorly by independent publications...
01-09-2018 10:48 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BroncoPhilly Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 15,237
Joined: Apr 2007
Reputation: 74
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #31
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
(01-09-2018 10:48 PM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  
(01-09-2018 10:11 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  
Quote:And the WMU law school is a bad joke. We should cut our losses and invest that $ in outreach and undergrad admissions.

Defend that statement with some arguments.

Any program offerings that distinguish Western from it's regional Michigan rivals is for the best. The program is accredited, so what's your beef?

Use the savings for outreach and undergrad Admissions? That's a pretty broad statement, but what is says to me is WMU needs to accept what it is and be more of what it has been in the past-a regional, 'no frills' university with standard offerings. In other words, be more like CMU, EMU, GVSU and SVSU. Yeah, that'll get the job done-NOT.

If we offer the same programs as GVSU, they will continue to increase in student population while we decrease. Why? Because there are a hell of a lot more folks in Kent/Ottaway/Muskegon County than there are in Metro-Kalamazoo. Why would anyone come from the GR region to attend school in Kalamazoo when they can leverage the exact same programs in their own backyard? They won't.

Western needs the professional programs to set us apart and make us attractive. That was the plan Haenicke and Dunn put together and it was the right move. We should do more of that, not less.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Mi...reputation

Poor reputation, sanctions from the American Bar Association, lawsuits, plummeting enrollment, staff layoffs, poor post-graduation employment outlook, consistently ranked poorly by independent publications...


Those are all subjective metrics (it depends on who they asked for input) but assuming there is some merit in the criticisms what that says to me is the program needs strong leadership to get it back on track. I do know this much, my late mother graduated from Cooley Law School and was employed in the field for 25 years with a good salary. An education is largely what you do with it.

In my field, Engineering, UM was legitimately criticized for many decades for their poor instruction in Bachelors level classes. They had mostly foreign graduate students teaching classes, the Professors were all doing research and teaching doctoral level students. Yet, whenever a poll came out about Engineering Schools the University of Michigan always ranked high. So much for polls, they make good reading in Dentists offices when you have nothing better to do.

All I know is this, Western needs programs which are effective at placing students in the workplace. They need programs that fill niches, that nobody else offers. They need professional programs. WMU needs programs that attract students from other states and overseas. Like:

1. Paper and Print technology
2. Aviation and Pilot Training
3. Accredited Engineering Program
4. Medical School offering MS and DO programs
5. Law School
6. Physical Therapy

These are the type of programs that'll build our reputation, attract students and distinguish us from the run of the mill state, regional schools. Frankly, we need to focus less on student population and more on the quality of students we attract.

Western should be pushing it's envelope every year, so that even making a comparison between WMU and GVSU is farcical.
01-09-2018 11:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ColinApocalypse Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 5,812
Joined: Jul 2012
Reputation: 61
I Root For: WMU
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Post: #32
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
I can't argue with any of that. I agree.

I'm just pointing out that our law school does not have a good reputation and it needs a strong leader to turn it around. It will take a concerted effort from the university. If they're not willing to put the required effort and resources into it, then cut ties. Because right now it is an anchor on an otherwise reputable university.
01-09-2018 11:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
brovol Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,715
Joined: Nov 2007
Reputation: 171
I Root For: WMU/ARMY
Location:
Post: #33
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
(01-08-2018 11:38 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  I went to both schools. Bad leadership at WMU during the growth years of state colleges in Michigan during the 1960's and 1970's contributed to this. Presidents James W. Miller and John T. Bernhard presided during this period, most of the blame should go to Bernhard-IMO. They both lacked a vision of what WMU should be and could be.

With the exception of monumental mediocrity Judith Bailey, WMU has had good leadership since then-Haenicke, Floyd and Dunn all did a great job developing Western with respect to our regional college competitors-CMU and EMU. Montgomery gets his chance to show what he can do.

As for student population, it isn't all about that. University of Notre Dame only has 12,000 students, yet has prestige and impact far beyond that. True, they are a private school unconstrained with the implications of filling a role as state school.

Adding our Medical School and Law School were outstanding moves and projected Western's mission far beyond our compatriots in Mt. Pleasant and Ypsilanti. We've pushed to maintain our classification as a Research/Doctoral University, GVSU doesn't have the maturity, longevity or history to compete with Western on those terms.

Montgomery needs to focus on developing our schools and offerings like Dunn did. In the future WMU will be judged on the caliber of students we bring in, the quality of our research and the select nature of the programs we offer. When GVSU has an accredited Engineering School, a nationally recognized Flight School, a Medical School, a Law school and a Paper technology program-THEN they can pose a threat to Western. As it is now, they're just a large, liberal arts type college that caters largely to commuter students in Michigan's 2nd most populous city and THE most populous city in west Michigan.

I need to watch what I say, but I wish we developed a law school ourselves instead of merging with Cooley. I believe the WMU brand was much better than the Cooley brand. Cooley is dealing with several issues, and is in peril of losing it's accreditation. Its grads are only passing the bar exam at a barely 50% rate, as opposed to about 80% passage rate for the other state schools. It have been told by the ABA that it is too frequently admitting students who have no chance of becoming lawyers. The school is in litigation with the ABA because it doesnt want the ABA to publish that the ABA accreditation committee concluded WMU-Cooley was not in compliance with specific standards; specifically 501(b), which says a school shall not admit applicants who do not appear capable of satisfactorily completing its educational program and being admitted to the bar. Law school isn't impossible for most college graduates, but you do need a minimum level of intellect and comprehension. Cooley's admittance standards have been far to open.

I do agree though that having a medical school and a law school, as well as other good graduate programs where we have distinguished ourselves puts us at a higher level than GVSU. We are a very well rounded good sized school, which offers everything that anyone would really want, and is in a perfect sized city.

I am very proud to be a WMU grad, and always have been. Not once have I felt in my professional career that I missed out on any opportunity because of where I went to school.
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2018 01:31 PM by brovol.)
01-10-2018 01:08 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Chipdip2 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 9,663
Joined: May 2007
Reputation: 64
I Root For: America
Location: Planet Earth
Post: #34
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
(01-08-2018 09:00 PM)okgc Wrote:  That article was also Sunday front page of the Kalamazoo Gazette

This publication still exists?

They just cherry pick articles off Mlive syndication. It was in Mlive GR Press, click, we put it in the Mdead Kalamazoo Gazette.

Biggest reason for the increase. GR is a rapidly growing city. If your kids can commute to a 4 year school your bill is half of what staying on campus is. It’s all about the commuter population.

Dutchies by nature are cheap. If Uter can save the VanHoogendort household $$ by commuting to Calvin, Aquinas, Cornerstone, Davenport, or Grand Valley that is what they’ll do. Lot of Dutchies in that area.

Western isn’t competing for commuters. KVCC is our commuter school, with 11,000 students, many who transfer to Western for their last two years. Western is competing for students who want “the college experience” i.e. MSU. If a kid gets accepted at Western and MSU the Sparty’s win every time because the over all college experience is better.
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2018 06:02 PM by Chipdip2.)
01-10-2018 05:50 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BroncoPhilly Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 15,237
Joined: Apr 2007
Reputation: 74
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #35
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
(01-10-2018 05:50 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  
(01-08-2018 09:00 PM)okgc Wrote:  That article was also Sunday front page of the Kalamazoo Gazette

This publication still exists?

They just cherry pick articles off Mlive syndication. It was in Mlive GR Press, click, we put it in the Mdead Kalamazoo Gazette.

Biggest reason for the increase. GR is a rapidly growing city. If your kids can commute to a 4 year school your bill is half of what staying on campus is. It’s all about the commuter population.

Dutchies by nature are cheap. If Uter can save the VanHoogendort household $$ by commuting to Calvin, Aquinas, Cornerstone, Davenport, or Grand Valley that is what they’ll do. Lot of Dutchies in that area.

Western isn’t competing for commuters. KVCC is our commuter school, with 11,000 students, many who transfer to Western for their last two years. Western is competing for students who want “the college experience” i.e. MSU. If a kid gets accepted at Western and MSU the Sparty’s win every time because the over all college experience is better.

'college experience is better' translates mostly into they're a Big 10 school and Western is MAC. Yeah, Sparty has nationally recognized teams in football and basketball. But if you're not into that what's the draw? MSU is a big school with all the advantages and disadvantages that denotes. In my field you get much better student/teacher ratio at WMU than at MSU. A chance to learn your trade better. Given the chance to do it again, I would still have chosen Western over MSU-and I had the chance to go to either.
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2018 11:01 PM by BroncoPhilly.)
01-10-2018 11:00 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GullLake Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,725
Joined: Jul 2015
Reputation: 45
I Root For: G5 programs
Location: My Lazy-Boy
Post: #36
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
(01-10-2018 11:00 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  
(01-10-2018 05:50 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  
(01-08-2018 09:00 PM)okgc Wrote:  That article was also Sunday front page of the Kalamazoo Gazette

This publication still exists?

They just cherry pick articles off Mlive syndication. It was in Mlive GR Press, click, we put it in the Mdead Kalamazoo Gazette.

Biggest reason for the increase. GR is a rapidly growing city. If your kids can commute to a 4 year school your bill is half of what staying on campus is. It’s all about the commuter population.

Dutchies by nature are cheap. If Uter can save the VanHoogendort household $$ by commuting to Calvin, Aquinas, Cornerstone, Davenport, or Grand Valley that is what they’ll do. Lot of Dutchies in that area.

Western isn’t competing for commuters. KVCC is our commuter school, with 11,000 students, many who transfer to Western for their last two years. Western is competing for students who want “the college experience” i.e. MSU. If a kid gets accepted at Western and MSU the Sparty’s win every time because the over all college experience is better.

'college experience is better' translates mostly into they're a Big 10 school and Western is MAC. Yeah, Sparty has nationally recognized teams in football and basketball. But if you're not into that what's the draw? MSU is a big school with all the advantages and disadvantages that denotes. In my field you get much better student/teacher ratio at WMU than at MSU. A chance to learn your trade better. Given the chance to do it again, I would still have chosen Western over MSU-and I had the chance to go to either.

I also strongly disagree about MSU providing a better "college experience" just because it is bigger. In many respects, the "college experience" is better at smaller schools, because there is a better professor (full prof, not TAs) student ratio and they have more investment in the student.

MSU and U-M (particularly U-M which is EXTREMELY over-rated for undergrad) only care about their undergraduates for tuition payments.
01-11-2018 08:51 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
broncofan1 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,288
Joined: Jan 2009
Reputation: 53
I Root For: Broncos
Location:
Post: #37
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
(01-10-2018 05:50 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  
(01-08-2018 09:00 PM)okgc Wrote:  That article was also Sunday front page of the Kalamazoo Gazette

This publication still exists?

They just cherry pick articles off Mlive syndication. It was in Mlive GR Press, click, we put it in the Mdead Kalamazoo Gazette.

Biggest reason for the increase. GR is a rapidly growing city. If your kids can commute to a 4 year school your bill is half of what staying on campus is. It’s all about the commuter population.

Dutchies by nature are cheap. If Uter can save the VanHoogendort household $$ by commuting to Calvin, Aquinas, Cornerstone, Davenport, or Grand Valley that is what they’ll do. Lot of Dutchies in that area.

Western isn’t competing for commuters. KVCC is our commuter school, with 11,000 students, many who transfer to Western for their last two years. Western is competing for students who want “the college experience” i.e. MSU. If a kid gets accepted at Western and MSU the Sparty’s win every time because the over all college experience is better.

GVSU is pulling from all over the state. They are killing WMU in the Detroit market, too. To say they are just a commuter school is an old way of thinking.

As for the 'college experience', please define that in the context of what a 17-18 year old kid wants. Things have changed, rapidly, in the past decade as to what constitutes a 'college experience'. This isn't the 80's and 90's anymore.
01-11-2018 09:06 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Doo Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,023
Joined: Jun 2014
Reputation: 15
I Root For: WMU
Location:
Post: #38
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
(01-10-2018 05:50 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  
(01-08-2018 09:00 PM)okgc Wrote:  That article was also Sunday front page of the Kalamazoo Gazette

This publication still exists?

They just cherry pick articles off Mlive syndication. It was in Mlive GR Press, click, we put it in the Mdead Kalamazoo Gazette.

Biggest reason for the increase. GR is a rapidly growing city. If your kids can commute to a 4 year school your bill is half of what staying on campus is. It’s all about the commuter population.

Dutchies by nature are cheap. If Uter can save the VanHoogendort household $$ by commuting to Calvin, Aquinas, Cornerstone, Davenport, or Grand Valley that is what they’ll do. Lot of Dutchies in that area.

Western isn’t competing for commuters. KVCC is our commuter school, with 11,000 students, many who transfer to Western for their last two years. Western is competing for students who want “the college experience” i.e. MSU. If a kid gets accepted at Western and MSU the Sparty’s win every time because the over all college experience is better.

Have you been on the GVSU campus lately? It doesn't look anywhere close to the same as it did 10 years ago. While it may not have the feel of a U of M or MSU, it also doesn't look Valley, or even a Hillsdale. It's quite nice now. With a lot of very modern on campus housing, which is a major factor for freshman.
01-11-2018 12:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Charm City Bronco Offline
Fights for Justice
*

Posts: 4,080
Joined: Jun 2010
Reputation: 42
I Root For: WMU
Location: 20011
Post: #39
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
Does it really matter if WMU is 24k undergrad than 30k undergrad? Does that really make us less of a school? Does it really "devalue" a degree from WMU?

Also, after having read the thread, I concluded that the TOTAL cost of the "college experience" is much greater than it used to be, so more people from the larger GR metro area are leaning toward GVSU than WMU. That's unfortunate, but that's reality.

I'm from GR and I loved Kzoo. Both cities are great and are unique experiences, but I chose to attend WMU.
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2018 09:59 PM by Charm City Bronco.)
01-11-2018 09:30 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
WMUlaxer97 Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 723
Joined: Nov 2016
Reputation: 3
I Root For: WMU & UofM
Location: Macomb, MI
Post: #40
RE: Front Page of The Grand Rapids Press: GVSU Has Overtaken WMU
WMU is in the top10 (5 public) of this list @9. GVSU sits at 27. https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-...gan?page=2

As for campuses I think GVSU has a very nice campus and public busing to GR is free for students. Grand Rapids is experiencing growth and popularity, beer industry, Spectrum health campus, ArtPrize. It’s only about 20 minutes to downtown and about 30 minutes to Grand Haven from Allendale. Clearly GVSU is probably the fastest growing university in MI for several reasons.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2018 02:08 AM by WMUlaxer97.)
01-13-2018 02:04 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2018 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2018 MyBB Group.