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College football doesn't fairly name a national champion
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_C2_ Offline
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College football doesn't fairly name a national champion
In other breaking news, the sun is rising...from the east!
01-05-2018 09:06 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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RE: College football doesn't fairly name a national champion
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(This post was last modified: 01-05-2018 09:42 AM by GoldenWarrior11.)
01-05-2018 09:41 AM
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_C2_ Offline
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RE: College football doesn't fairly name a national champion
Yep...
01-05-2018 09:42 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: College football doesn't fairly name a national champion
It would be equally as unfair to put a 12-0 team that had the easiest schedule in college football in the mix.

I'm not alluding to UCF in that statement but speaking generally.

There isn't a "fair" way to do it that everybody in college football would call fair.
01-05-2018 09:46 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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RE: College football doesn't fairly name a national champion
(01-05-2018 09:46 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It would be equally as unfair to put a 12-0 team that had the easiest schedule in college football in the mix.

I'm not alluding to UCF in that statement but speaking generally.

There isn't a "fair" way to do it that everybody in college football would call fair.
Yes, there is. All conference champions get playoff spots like any real sport.

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01-05-2018 09:48 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: College football doesn't fairly name a national champion
(01-05-2018 09:48 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 09:46 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It would be equally as unfair to put a 12-0 team that had the easiest schedule in college football in the mix.

I'm not alluding to UCF in that statement but speaking generally.

There isn't a "fair" way to do it that everybody in college football would call fair.
Yes, there is. All conference champions get playoff spots like any real sport.

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Not all conferences are created equally...

...to prove my point
(This post was last modified: 01-05-2018 09:52 AM by HeartOfDixie.)
01-05-2018 09:52 AM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: College football doesn't fairly name a national champion
(01-05-2018 09:48 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 09:46 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It would be equally as unfair to put a 12-0 team that had the easiest schedule in college football in the mix.

I'm not alluding to UCF in that statement but speaking generally.

There isn't a "fair" way to do it that everybody in college football would call fair.
Yes, there is. All conference champions get playoff spots like any real sport.


That might be fair if each conference championship was equally difficult to win. If not, then equally rewarding each conference champ would be "unfair" to teams competing in conferences that are more difficult to win.

And that's one reason why the bolded statement above is correct.
01-05-2018 09:55 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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RE: College football doesn't fairly name a national champion
(01-05-2018 09:52 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 09:48 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 09:46 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It would be equally as unfair to put a 12-0 team that had the easiest schedule in college football in the mix.

I'm not alluding to UCF in that statement but speaking generally.

There isn't a "fair" way to do it that everybody in college football would call fair.
Yes, there is. All conference champions get playoff spots like any real sport.

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Not all conferences are created equally...

...to prove my point
Yeah. Some get a shot at a championship and some don't causing an absurd two-tier system of elites and non-elites unlike any other alleged sport on earth. You solve this by having all conference champions get playoff access like every other sports league on earth does. Then the conferences start looking more like each other.

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01-05-2018 09:56 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: College football doesn't fairly name a national champion
(01-05-2018 09:56 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 09:52 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 09:48 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 09:46 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It would be equally as unfair to put a 12-0 team that had the easiest schedule in college football in the mix.

I'm not alluding to UCF in that statement but speaking generally.

There isn't a "fair" way to do it that everybody in college football would call fair.
Yes, there is. All conference champions get playoff spots like any real sport.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Not all conferences are created equally...

...to prove my point
Yeah. Some get a shot at a championship and some don't causing an absurd two-tier system of elites and non-elites unlike any other alleged sport on earth. You solve this by having all conference champions get playoff access like every other sports league on earth does. Then the conferences start looking more like each other.

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You can call it "looking more like one another," but I would call it a race to the bottom.

It's all a matter of perspective.
01-05-2018 09:58 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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RE: College football doesn't fairly name a national champion
(01-05-2018 09:55 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 09:48 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 09:46 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It would be equally as unfair to put a 12-0 team that had the easiest schedule in college football in the mix.

I'm not alluding to UCF in that statement but speaking generally.

There isn't a "fair" way to do it that everybody in college football would call fair.
Yes, there is. All conference champions get playoff spots like any real sport.


That might be fair if each conference championship was equally difficult to win. If not, then equally rewarding each conference champ would be "unfair" to teams competing in conferences that are more difficult to win.

And that's one reason why the bolded statement above is correct.
You aren't eligible to be hired because you don't have a job.

You can't enter the hospital if you are sick.

We can't mitigate the disparities in FBS football because there are disparities in FBS football.

Tired excuses to maintain the status quo.

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01-05-2018 10:03 AM
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_C2_ Offline
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RE: College football doesn't fairly name a national champion
(01-05-2018 09:46 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It would be equally as unfair to put a 12-0 team that had the easiest schedule in college football in the mix.

I'm not alluding to UCF in that statement but speaking generally.

There isn't a "fair" way to do it that everybody in college football would call fair.

That's where you're wrong. First off, they won all of their games, so they did all they could control plus the AAC has proven it can be strong in recent years, with multiple ranked teams.

But okay, toss that aside for now. There is a fair way and it's the way pretty much every sports league except European soccer does. Everyone that wins their division gets a chance to win the title,

But okay, you don't think all ten conferences are equals. You can still have a playoff with the worthy conferences, plus at-larges or at least one spot for the non-worthy conferences.

As I said in the OP though, the UCF situation is nothing new.
01-05-2018 10:05 AM
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BePcr07 Online
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Post: #12
RE: College football doesn't fairly name a national champion
Agree with both sides. The national champion is not fairly determined, and conferences aren't created equally. There are potential solutions but they are all unreasonable.

As a Boise St fan, I would definitely be in support of as much inclusion of the non-power conferences as possible. However, I recognize that a schedule that annually includes the likes of New Mexico, Utah St, San Jose St, Hawaii, UNLV, Nevada, and Wyoming is not the same as one that annually includes schools like Alabama, LSU, Georgia, Florida, Auburn, Texas A&M, and South Carolina.

I'm not saying the Mountain West schools aren't competitive from time to time or couldn't beat an SEC school. In fact, I love our conference and if we went to 16 would love to have BYU and some Texas schools join. What I am saying, and what I think Wedge and others are saying, is that equal representation to determine a champion requires similar resumes.

A good example is the electoral college (whether you like it or not.) Texas has 38 electoral college votes and around 28 million people. If all eligible voters voted and the majority voted for Candidate X, then Candidate X gets the 38 electoral college votes. On the other hand, Rhode Island has 4 electoral college votes and around 1 million people. If all eligible voters voted and the majority voted for Candidate X, then Candidate X gets the 4 electoral college votes. It would be patently unequal in this voting system to give Rhode Island and Texas the same number of electoral college votes because, theoretically, millions more people in Texas would be voting than in Rhode Island.
01-05-2018 10:16 AM
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goodknightfl Offline
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Post: #13
RE: College football doesn't fairly name a national champion
I am rooting for AL for the first time ever. I want the 2nd place team in Sec West, 3 place team in SEC to be National champs, while UCF the Undefeated AAC champ, and AAC east champ, And peach bowl champ, who beat the Sec West champ, that beat the national champ for 1st place in SEC west. is not the legitimate champion..

Only in college football elitist circles does that make sense. or in the mind of mr potato head..
01-05-2018 10:17 AM
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_C2_ Offline
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RE: College football doesn't fairly name a national champion
(01-05-2018 10:03 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 09:55 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 09:48 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 09:46 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It would be equally as unfair to put a 12-0 team that had the easiest schedule in college football in the mix.

I'm not alluding to UCF in that statement but speaking generally.

There isn't a "fair" way to do it that everybody in college football would call fair.
Yes, there is. All conference champions get playoff spots like any real sport.


That might be fair if each conference championship was equally difficult to win. If not, then equally rewarding each conference champ would be "unfair" to teams competing in conferences that are more difficult to win.

And that's one reason why the bolded statement above is correct.
You aren't eligible to be hired because you don't have a job.

You can't enter the hospital if you are sick.

We can't mitigate the disparities in FBS football because there are disparities in FBS football.

Tired excuses to maintain the status quo.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Welcome to reality, those who have power will do whatever it takes to maintain the status quo.
01-05-2018 10:20 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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RE: College football doesn't fairly name a national champion
(01-05-2018 10:20 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 10:03 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 09:55 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 09:48 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 09:46 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It would be equally as unfair to put a 12-0 team that had the easiest schedule in college football in the mix.

I'm not alluding to UCF in that statement but speaking generally.

There isn't a "fair" way to do it that everybody in college football would call fair.
Yes, there is. All conference champions get playoff spots like any real sport.


That might be fair if each conference championship was equally difficult to win. If not, then equally rewarding each conference champ would be "unfair" to teams competing in conferences that are more difficult to win.

And that's one reason why the bolded statement above is correct.
You aren't eligible to be hired because you don't have a job.

You can't enter the hospital if you are sick.

We can't mitigate the disparities in FBS football because there are disparities in FBS football.

Tired excuses to maintain the status quo.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Welcome to reality, those who have power will do whatever it takes to maintain the status quo.

Yes they will. They will also make absurd excuses and rationalizations and try to convince others that its normal and proper to have a corrupt monopoly and that it would be bad to not have it.

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01-05-2018 10:26 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: College football doesn't fairly name a national champion
(01-05-2018 09:48 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 09:46 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It would be equally as unfair to put a 12-0 team that had the easiest schedule in college football in the mix.

I'm not alluding to UCF in that statement but speaking generally.

There isn't a "fair" way to do it that everybody in college football would call fair.
Yes, there is. All conference champions get playoff spots like any real sport.

So if Ark-State wins its conference with a 7-5 record and makes the playoffs, while 12-1 Clemson doesn't win its conference so doesn't make the playoffs, that's "fair"?
01-05-2018 10:29 AM
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RE: College football doesn't fairly name a national champion
(01-05-2018 10:17 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  I am rooting for AL for the first time ever. I want the 2nd place team in Sec West, 3 place team in SEC to be National champs, while UCF the Undefeated AAC champ, and AAC east champ, And peach bowl champ, who beat the Sec West champ, that beat the national champ for 1st place in SEC west. is not the legitimate champion..

Only in college football elitist circles does that make sense. or in the mind of mr potato head..

CBB had much worse than 2nd place conference teams win the title. Does anyone believe all the past winners were the best teams?

BTW a 4 win ACC team beat Clemson which beat Auburn too...so what? The win over Auburn was a nice victory but hardly worthy of proving UCF is the national champs.
01-05-2018 10:36 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: College football doesn't fairly name a national champion
(01-05-2018 10:17 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  I am rooting for AL for the first time ever. I want the 2nd place team in Sec West, 3 place team in SEC to be National champs, while UCF the Undefeated AAC champ, and AAC east champ, And peach bowl champ, who beat the Sec West champ, that beat the national champ for 1st place in SEC west. is not the legitimate champion..

Only in college football elitist circles does that make sense. or in the mind of mr potato head..

First, in many sports, teams that don't win their division win the championship, happens all the time. In the NFL, i saw a 10-6 team, a wild card, beat a 16-0 team to win the Super Bowl.

Second, transitivity is silly. LSU beat Syracuse this year, Syracuse beat Clemson, so i guess LSU deserved a playoff spot more than Clemson? Dumb thinking.

Nobody in their right mind would say that UCF beating a 3-loss Auburn team that didn't win their conference is a big deal. It's not.

Heck, how many conference champs did UCF beat this year? If Alabama wins the title, they will have beaten the ACC champ and the SEC champ.

UCF? Anybody?
(This post was last modified: 01-05-2018 10:40 AM by quo vadis.)
01-05-2018 10:39 AM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #19
RE: College football doesn't fairly name a national champion
(01-05-2018 10:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 09:48 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 09:46 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It would be equally as unfair to put a 12-0 team that had the easiest schedule in college football in the mix.

I'm not alluding to UCF in that statement but speaking generally.

There isn't a "fair" way to do it that everybody in college football would call fair.
Yes, there is. All conference champions get playoff spots like any real sport.

So if Ark-State wins its conference with a 7-5 record and makes the playoffs, while 12-1 Clemson doesn't win its conference so doesn't make the playoffs, that's "fair"?

That's why there would be wild cards.
01-05-2018 10:42 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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RE: College football doesn't fairly name a national champion
(01-05-2018 10:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 09:48 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 09:46 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It would be equally as unfair to put a 12-0 team that had the easiest schedule in college football in the mix.

I'm not alluding to UCF in that statement but speaking generally.

There isn't a "fair" way to do it that everybody in college football would call fair.
Yes, there is. All conference champions get playoff spots like any real sport.

So if Ark-State wins its conference with a 7-5 record and makes the playoffs, while 12-1 Clemson doesn't win its conference so doesn't make the playoffs, that's "fair"?

In real sports you generally have division champions and a couple of wildcards. This is not unusual or "unfair".

What makes it seem "unfair" in college football is that the cartel structure has stunted any potential parity between conferences and widened the gap.

LSU, Bama, and the rest of the elites have extreme institutionalized recruiting advantages, one of which is the fact that they have playoff access and others do not.

If FBS football became like any other sports league in the world then the "have-nots" would recruit better due to playoff access, increased attention, and relevancy. With this, the perception of "unfair" would decrease.

How sports leagues should operate is pretty straightforward. Half the league having no championship access before a game is played is not how they are supposed to work.



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01-05-2018 10:44 AM
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