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Oklahoma to new conference. preferred partner
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NJ2MDTerp Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Oklahoma to new conference. preferred partner
(01-03-2018 11:55 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(01-03-2018 08:34 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(01-03-2018 08:06 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  If the B1G came calling for Oklahoma don't you think OU would accept B1G without a partner?

Taking a cue from the GT to B1G thread we have currently operating, the B1G doesn't necessarily need adjacent universities.

B1G could grab OU the second they are available and scoop up UConn since they aren't tied to the ACC grant of rights.

If the choice is between Kansas and UConn I'm thinking UConn as the upside school.


The question is if the BIG 10 wants UConn. (small market) or get UMass. (Gillette Stadium, Boston market, similar rankings in academics as UConn.)
UConn has issues in football but so does Rutgers, Maryland, Indiana, Purdue. P5 level facilities but limitations in recruiting base.
UConn's men's basketball program appears to have followed the football program in falling off a cliff. I imagine that would give KU the edge, especially if OU tags along.
01-04-2018 12:38 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Oklahoma to new conference. preferred partner
Glad something new and enlightening was brought to the table.

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01-04-2018 12:47 PM
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SMUmustangs Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Oklahoma to new conference. preferred partner
(01-03-2018 05:40 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  If/when OU moves to another conference, is this a fair characterization of preference for their partner

Fans/boosters/new conference: UT
The Oklahoma state legislature: OSU

No....absolutely not. As a native Okie that has closely followed both the political climate and the relationship between OU and OSU, for about 50 years, I assure you the Oklahoma State Legislature has no bearing on whether OU and OSU stay together or not. In fact there is an old law passed back around 1940 that seems to actually forbid the Legislature from such action.

I have posted this info before in response to one of Frank's post and in reading his post on this thread, he seems to acknowledge that the notion of OU having to take OSU is maybe perceived and not realistic.

OU and OSU each have their own Board of Regents, BUT both of those boards report to the State Board of Regents for Higher Education, which governs all State Colleges and Universities within the State. So they ultimately report to the same board.

The Universities have always cooperated on educational matters. Working through the State Board of Regents they tried to eliminate duplication where possible. I am talking about the schools of medicine, law, architecture, veterinary medicine, geology, petroleum engineering etc.

There is a very close and cooperative relationship between OU and OSU. Both Universities would very much like to stay together.... but they will go their separate ways if necessary. OSU will not stand in the way of OU going to the Big10. Neither will the State Legislature.

OU once before left OSU for another conference and the Legislature did nothing.

On top of all that, I would point out that about 70-80% of the people in Oklahoma are OU football fans. Any state politician that would oppose OU going to the Big10 alone would be committing political suicide.


As for UT....a lot of OU fans would prefer that OU be in a separate conference. Most probably do not care if they are with UT or not. Certainly most do NOT see staying with UT as necessary.
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2018 08:40 PM by SMUmustangs.)
01-04-2018 04:03 PM
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SMUmustangs Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Oklahoma to new conference. preferred partner
(01-04-2018 11:14 AM)bluesox Wrote:  My guess would be OU would only go to the sec with OK state but would join the big 10 with KU. Of course, since Texas is the real prize how they figure into moves is the mystery. Hard to see the sec not counter with OU and OK state combo to prevent OU joining the big 10. The sec having UGA beat OU which prevented the OU-Alabama game in Atlanta probably set back the sec efforts to land OU since the OU bigwigs would have liked that atmosphere. I still think the pac 12 jumping to 18 or 20 with big 12 schools is the best move for everyone, given the geography 16 doesn’t really work for the pac 12 if it adds big 12 schools

I believe you have stated it correctly.
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2018 04:10 PM by SMUmustangs.)
01-04-2018 04:09 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Oklahoma to new conference. preferred partner
(01-03-2018 08:06 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  If the B1G came calling for Oklahoma don't you think OU would accept B1G without a partner?

Taking a cue from the GT to B1G thread we have currently operating, the B1G doesn't necessarily need adjacent universities.

B1G could grab OU the second they are available and scoop up UConn since they aren't tied to the ACC grant of rights.

If the choice is between Kansas and UConn I'm thinking UConn as the upside school.

There's not even a debate here--if Oklahoma joins the Big Ten they join with basketball blueblood and AAU member Kansas
01-04-2018 06:13 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Oklahoma to new conference. preferred partner
OU should do an ND type deal with the AAC.

That way the AAC can become a contract conference.

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01-04-2018 06:13 PM
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Erictelevision Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Oklahoma to new conference. preferred partner
Thanks for the insider information SMU!

Kitten: what is a "contract conference"?
01-04-2018 06:51 PM
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johnintx Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Oklahoma to new conference. preferred partner
(01-04-2018 04:03 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  
(01-03-2018 05:40 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  If/when OU moves to another conference, is this a fair characterization of preference for their partner

Fans/boosters/new conference: UT
The Oklahoma state legislature: OSU

No....absolutely not. As a native Okie that has closely followed both the political climate and the relationship between OU and OSU, for about 50 years, I assure you the Oklahoma State Legislature has no bearing on whether OU and OSU stay together or not. In fact there is an old law passed back around 1940 that seems to actually forbid the Legislature from such action.

I have posted this info before in response to one of Frank's post and in reading his post on this thread, he seems to acknowledge that the notion of OU having to take OSU is maybe perceived and not realistic.

OU and OSU each have their own Board of Regents, BUT both of those boards report to the State Board of Regents for Higher Education, which governs all State Colleges and Universities within the State. So they ultimately report to the same board.

The Universities have always cooperated on educational matters. Working through the State Board of Regents they tried to eliminate duplication where possible. I am talking about the schools of medicine, law, architecture, veterinary medicine, geology, petroleum engineering etc.

There is a very close and cooperative relationship between OU and OSU. Both Universities would very much like to stay together.... but they will go their separate ways if necessary. OSU will not stand in the way of OU going to the Big10. Neither will the State Legislature.

OU once before left OSU for another conference and the Legislature did nothing.

On top of all that, I would point out that about 70-80% of the people in Oklahoma are OU football fans. Any state politician that would oppose OU going to the Big10 alone would be committing political suicide.


As for UT....a lot of OU fans would prefer that OU be in a separate conference. Most probably do not care if they are with UT or not. Certainly most do NOT see staying with UT as necessary.

I can vouch for what SMUMustangs is saying here. He said it better than I could.

When and if push comes to shove, OU will be allowed to leave OSU if necessary. It would not be the optimal political situation, but it would be allowed to happen.

The outgoing president of OU has family connections to OSU. As former governor and senator, there is even a building at OSU named after him. As an experienced and savvy politician, he has been looking out for OSU along with OU. Yes, there are political considerations, but there is absolutely nothing official keeping OU and OSU in the same conference.

KU and K-State are a slightly different story. They are governed by the same board of regents. The politics would be more difficult, but KU would ultimately be allowed to move to the B1G if it were the only opportunity for the state to have a power conference school.

OU and Texas are a marriage of convenience. They were in separate conferences for 77 years. As long as the rivalry is preserved, they do not have to be in the same conference.
01-04-2018 08:53 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Oklahoma to new conference. preferred partner
(01-04-2018 08:53 PM)johnintx Wrote:  
(01-04-2018 04:03 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  
(01-03-2018 05:40 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  If/when OU moves to another conference, is this a fair characterization of preference for their partner

Fans/boosters/new conference: UT
The Oklahoma state legislature: OSU

No....absolutely not. As a native Okie that has closely followed both the political climate and the relationship between OU and OSU, for about 50 years, I assure you the Oklahoma State Legislature has no bearing on whether OU and OSU stay together or not. In fact there is an old law passed back around 1940 that seems to actually forbid the Legislature from such action.

I have posted this info before in response to one of Frank's post and in reading his post on this thread, he seems to acknowledge that the notion of OU having to take OSU is maybe perceived and not realistic.

OU and OSU each have their own Board of Regents, BUT both of those boards report to the State Board of Regents for Higher Education, which governs all State Colleges and Universities within the State. So they ultimately report to the same board.

The Universities have always cooperated on educational matters. Working through the State Board of Regents they tried to eliminate duplication where possible. I am talking about the schools of medicine, law, architecture, veterinary medicine, geology, petroleum engineering etc.

There is a very close and cooperative relationship between OU and OSU. Both Universities would very much like to stay together.... but they will go their separate ways if necessary. OSU will not stand in the way of OU going to the Big10. Neither will the State Legislature.

OU once before left OSU for another conference and the Legislature did nothing.

On top of all that, I would point out that about 70-80% of the people in Oklahoma are OU football fans. Any state politician that would oppose OU going to the Big10 alone would be committing political suicide.


As for UT....a lot of OU fans would prefer that OU be in a separate conference. Most probably do not care if they are with UT or not. Certainly most do NOT see staying with UT as necessary.

I can vouch for what SMUMustangs is saying here. He said it better than I could.

When and if push comes to shove, OU will be allowed to leave OSU if necessary. It would not be the optimal political situation, but it would be allowed to happen.

The outgoing president of OU has family connections to OSU. As former governor and senator, there is even a building at OSU named after him. As an experienced and savvy politician, he has been looking out for OSU along with OU. Yes, there are political considerations, but there is absolutely nothing official keeping OU and OSU in the same conference.

KU and K-State are a slightly different story. They are governed by the same board of regents. The politics would be more difficult, but KU would ultimately be allowed to move to the B1G if it were the only opportunity for the state to have a power conference school.

OU and Texas are a marriage of convenience. They were in separate conferences for 77 years. As long as the rivalry is preserved, they do not have to be in the same conference.

I would think that the primary considerations that will have to be weighed are:

1. What is best for the Oklahoma Athletic Program as a whole and where do their collection of sports fit best.

2. Where will they get enough total revenue to be able to continue to upgrade facilities. Travel crowd size, distance to venues, and ticket prices will have a lot to with this. And it will account along with donations for a much higher % of revenue than just TV contracts.

3. Fan accessibility and geography will play a role, as well as games they want to see.


I think the academic issue is overstated. Where a school plays its sports has little to do with its academic associations and the Big 10 can't garner AAU status for them. They have to do that for themselves.

And, whether OSU travels with them would be just a plus.

So I would just say that Oklahoma would essentially have its pick of where they end up. The usual message board hooey will have little to do with it. It will be a practical business decision if/when that time comes and one that weighs as best it can all of the ramifications of moving.
01-04-2018 09:56 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Oklahoma to new conference. preferred partner
Piggy backing on what JR said, I think if the Sooners had to pick a new P5 league today I think they lean towards the better cultural fit and go with the SEC. I think the Big Ten has a ton to offer and that a PAC 16 would bring balance to the P4 but ultimately I see the creation of a Southern juggernaut.
01-04-2018 10:11 PM
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bluesox Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Oklahoma to new conference. preferred partner
I would guess the folks running OU would pick going to the big 10 with Kansas if they could get away with it. However, I don’t think OU can make that move if the sec or pac 12 offer the OU and Ok state combo unless ok state has a solo invite which seems very unlikely to happen.
(This post was last modified: 01-05-2018 11:35 AM by bluesox.)
01-05-2018 11:34 AM
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Post: #32
RE: Oklahoma to new conference. preferred partner
(01-04-2018 09:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-04-2018 08:53 PM)johnintx Wrote:  
(01-04-2018 04:03 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  
(01-03-2018 05:40 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  If/when OU moves to another conference, is this a fair characterization of preference for their partner

Fans/boosters/new conference: UT
The Oklahoma state legislature: OSU

No....absolutely not. As a native Okie that has closely followed both the political climate and the relationship between OU and OSU, for about 50 years, I assure you the Oklahoma State Legislature has no bearing on whether OU and OSU stay together or not. In fact there is an old law passed back around 1940 that seems to actually forbid the Legislature from such action.

I have posted this info before in response to one of Frank's post and in reading his post on this thread, he seems to acknowledge that the notion of OU having to take OSU is maybe perceived and not realistic.

OU and OSU each have their own Board of Regents, BUT both of those boards report to the State Board of Regents for Higher Education, which governs all State Colleges and Universities within the State. So they ultimately report to the same board.

The Universities have always cooperated on educational matters. Working through the State Board of Regents they tried to eliminate duplication where possible. I am talking about the schools of medicine, law, architecture, veterinary medicine, geology, petroleum engineering etc.

There is a very close and cooperative relationship between OU and OSU. Both Universities would very much like to stay together.... but they will go their separate ways if necessary. OSU will not stand in the way of OU going to the Big10. Neither will the State Legislature.

OU once before left OSU for another conference and the Legislature did nothing.

On top of all that, I would point out that about 70-80% of the people in Oklahoma are OU football fans. Any state politician that would oppose OU going to the Big10 alone would be committing political suicide.


As for UT....a lot of OU fans would prefer that OU be in a separate conference. Most probably do not care if they are with UT or not. Certainly most do NOT see staying with UT as necessary.

I can vouch for what SMUMustangs is saying here. He said it better than I could.

When and if push comes to shove, OU will be allowed to leave OSU if necessary. It would not be the optimal political situation, but it would be allowed to happen.

The outgoing president of OU has family connections to OSU. As former governor and senator, there is even a building at OSU named after him. As an experienced and savvy politician, he has been looking out for OSU along with OU. Yes, there are political considerations, but there is absolutely nothing official keeping OU and OSU in the same conference.

KU and K-State are a slightly different story. They are governed by the same board of regents. The politics would be more difficult, but KU would ultimately be allowed to move to the B1G if it were the only opportunity for the state to have a power conference school.

OU and Texas are a marriage of convenience. They were in separate conferences for 77 years. As long as the rivalry is preserved, they do not have to be in the same conference.

I would think that the primary considerations that will have to be weighed are:

1. What is best for the Oklahoma Athletic Program as a whole and where do their collection of sports fit best.

2. Where will they get enough total revenue to be able to continue to upgrade facilities. Travel crowd size, distance to venues, and ticket prices will have a lot to with this. And it will account along with donations for a much higher % of revenue than just TV contracts.

3. Fan accessibility and geography will play a role, as well as games they want to see.


I think the academic issue is overstated. Where a school plays its sports has little to do with its academic associations and the Big 10 can't garner AAU status for them. They have to do that for themselves.

And, whether OSU travels with them would be just a plus.

So I would just say that Oklahoma would essentially have its pick of where they end up. The usual message board hooey will have little to do with it. It will be a practical business decision if/when that time comes and one that weighs as best it can all of the ramifications of moving.
What the political people, higher educational boards, and oSu boosters, may be concerned about is not so much conference separation between OU and oSu; rather, if OU leaves, oSu is not left in a financially weakened, and much less prestigious conference situation. So, the hope would be oSu gets picked up by another P5, and not remain in a potentially more depleted Big12.
OU and oSu, if they do have a conference separation from each other, would still want to play each other (ooc) in multiple sports, fb and bb certainly included.
OU likely cannot keep Texas and oSu yearly scheduled in fb without one of them coming along with them. The BIG's scheduling methodology, for example, has limited flexibility.

I tend to view oSu as being under-valued by the sports media and chat. oSu has a solid, sustained, and winning program. They get over-shadowed by OU's marquee name and lofty success. The point being, oSu would be regularly and respectedly competitive in any other P5 conference. That cannot be said about everyone else in the B12. Of course I am referencing athletics, and not necessarily market factors, academics, cultural identity, etc.
01-05-2018 01:37 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Oklahoma to new conference. preferred partner
(01-05-2018 01:37 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  
(01-04-2018 09:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-04-2018 08:53 PM)johnintx Wrote:  
(01-04-2018 04:03 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  
(01-03-2018 05:40 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  If/when OU moves to another conference, is this a fair characterization of preference for their partner

Fans/boosters/new conference: UT
The Oklahoma state legislature: OSU

No....absolutely not. As a native Okie that has closely followed both the political climate and the relationship between OU and OSU, for about 50 years, I assure you the Oklahoma State Legislature has no bearing on whether OU and OSU stay together or not. In fact there is an old law passed back around 1940 that seems to actually forbid the Legislature from such action.

I have posted this info before in response to one of Frank's post and in reading his post on this thread, he seems to acknowledge that the notion of OU having to take OSU is maybe perceived and not realistic.

OU and OSU each have their own Board of Regents, BUT both of those boards report to the State Board of Regents for Higher Education, which governs all State Colleges and Universities within the State. So they ultimately report to the same board.

The Universities have always cooperated on educational matters. Working through the State Board of Regents they tried to eliminate duplication where possible. I am talking about the schools of medicine, law, architecture, veterinary medicine, geology, petroleum engineering etc.

There is a very close and cooperative relationship between OU and OSU. Both Universities would very much like to stay together.... but they will go their separate ways if necessary. OSU will not stand in the way of OU going to the Big10. Neither will the State Legislature.

OU once before left OSU for another conference and the Legislature did nothing.

On top of all that, I would point out that about 70-80% of the people in Oklahoma are OU football fans. Any state politician that would oppose OU going to the Big10 alone would be committing political suicide.


As for UT....a lot of OU fans would prefer that OU be in a separate conference. Most probably do not care if they are with UT or not. Certainly most do NOT see staying with UT as necessary.

I can vouch for what SMUMustangs is saying here. He said it better than I could.

When and if push comes to shove, OU will be allowed to leave OSU if necessary. It would not be the optimal political situation, but it would be allowed to happen.

The outgoing president of OU has family connections to OSU. As former governor and senator, there is even a building at OSU named after him. As an experienced and savvy politician, he has been looking out for OSU along with OU. Yes, there are political considerations, but there is absolutely nothing official keeping OU and OSU in the same conference.

KU and K-State are a slightly different story. They are governed by the same board of regents. The politics would be more difficult, but KU would ultimately be allowed to move to the B1G if it were the only opportunity for the state to have a power conference school.

OU and Texas are a marriage of convenience. They were in separate conferences for 77 years. As long as the rivalry is preserved, they do not have to be in the same conference.

I would think that the primary considerations that will have to be weighed are:

1. What is best for the Oklahoma Athletic Program as a whole and where do their collection of sports fit best.

2. Where will they get enough total revenue to be able to continue to upgrade facilities. Travel crowd size, distance to venues, and ticket prices will have a lot to with this. And it will account along with donations for a much higher % of revenue than just TV contracts.

3. Fan accessibility and geography will play a role, as well as games they want to see.


I think the academic issue is overstated. Where a school plays its sports has little to do with its academic associations and the Big 10 can't garner AAU status for them. They have to do that for themselves.

And, whether OSU travels with them would be just a plus.

So I would just say that Oklahoma would essentially have its pick of where they end up. The usual message board hooey will have little to do with it. It will be a practical business decision if/when that time comes and one that weighs as best it can all of the ramifications of moving.
What the political people, higher educational boards, and oSu boosters, may be concerned about is not so much conference separation between OU and oSu; rather, if OU leaves, oSu is not left in a financially weakened, and much less prestigious conference situation. So, the hope would be oSu gets picked up by another P5, and not remain in a potentially more depleted Big12.
OU and oSu, if they do have a conference separation from each other, would still want to play each other (ooc) in multiple sports, fb and bb certainly included.
OU likely cannot keep Texas and oSu yearly scheduled in fb without one of them coming along with them. The BIG's scheduling methodology, for example, has limited flexibility.

I tend to view oSu as being under-valued by the sports media and chat. oSu has a solid, sustained, and winning program. They get over-shadowed by OU's marquee name and lofty success. The point being, oSu would be regularly and respectedly competitive in any other P5 conference. That cannot be said about everyone else in the B12. Of course I am referencing athletics, and not necessarily market factors, academics, cultural identity, etc.

Future scheduling is a huge part of the problem for OSU and OU. If they are separated then OU needs two OOC games for UT and OSU. So yeah, that's why they are more likely to move together than not. And if OSU is left out of the P5 movement which is possible due to a small market and not having big brand status then it does become a political issue when they suffer a loss of revenue.
01-05-2018 01:44 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Oklahoma to new conference. preferred partner
(01-03-2018 08:20 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  The B1G scenario for OU is unique since it's the least likely option for them (assuming more or less zero chance of the ACC)

They regain Nebraska and would probably keep the UT game because let's face it, UT would be forced to continue this game and wouldn't dare pull the "you left so we wont play you anymore" card or they'd have none of their 3 main rivals left

They could legitimately leave OSU by saying they won't take you but we can't pass up a chance to have a OK school in the CIC to bolster our chances of AAU

Hahahahaha. OU isn’t getting an AAU invite.
I went to grad school at OU and like OU.
01-05-2018 06:19 PM
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johnintx Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Oklahoma to new conference. preferred partner
(01-05-2018 01:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 01:37 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  What the political people, higher educational boards, and oSu boosters, may be concerned about is not so much conference separation between OU and oSu; rather, if OU leaves, oSu is not left in a financially weakened, and much less prestigious conference situation. So, the hope would be oSu gets picked up by another P5, and not remain in a potentially more depleted Big12.
OU and oSu, if they do have a conference separation from each other, would still want to play each other (ooc) in multiple sports, fb and bb certainly included.
OU likely cannot keep Texas and oSu yearly scheduled in fb without one of them coming along with them. The BIG's scheduling methodology, for example, has limited flexibility.

I tend to view oSu as being under-valued by the sports media and chat. oSu has a solid, sustained, and winning program. They get over-shadowed by OU's marquee name and lofty success. The point being, oSu would be regularly and respectedly competitive in any other P5 conference. That cannot be said about everyone else in the B12. Of course I am referencing athletics, and not necessarily market factors, academics, cultural identity, etc.

Future scheduling is a huge part of the problem for OSU and OU. If they are separated then OU needs two OOC games for UT and OSU. So yeah, that's why they are more likely to move together than not. And if OSU is left out of the P5 movement which is possible due to a small market and not having big brand status then it does become a political issue when they suffer a loss of revenue.

This is where the SEC has an advantage. They have the flexibility to invite both OU and OSU if they wish. I don't know if the SEC would be willing to invite OSU in order to attract OU, but I know it's an option.

OSU, as the second school in a state of 3.9 million people, punches way above its weight on the field and on the court. They don't have the market metrics, brand name, or academic pedigree, but they do very well. They would acquit themselves well in any conference. They, as well as OU, would fit in well in the SEC. [I can't believe I just advocated for OSU] 01-lauramac2

OU and the B1G would mutually benefit each other. The B1G would get a football brand name in the west, OU would gain prestigious academic associations.

OU, both institutionally and athletically, is more like an SEC school. It is currently institutionally similar to the flagship universities of the southern states. Athletically, it is a mega-football school with success in men's and women's basketball, softball, gymnastics, golf, and baseball (in the past). OU is good or has been good where the SEC is good. A move to the SEC would be very good for OU.

OU needs to continue to play both OSU and Texas. If OSU moves with OU, then only Texas would be a demanded non-conference opponent. It would be hard to play both Texas and OSU in non-conference football games.
(This post was last modified: 01-05-2018 06:25 PM by johnintx.)
01-05-2018 06:23 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Oklahoma to new conference. preferred partner
(01-05-2018 06:23 PM)johnintx Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 01:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 01:37 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  What the political people, higher educational boards, and oSu boosters, may be concerned about is not so much conference separation between OU and oSu; rather, if OU leaves, oSu is not left in a financially weakened, and much less prestigious conference situation. So, the hope would be oSu gets picked up by another P5, and not remain in a potentially more depleted Big12.
OU and oSu, if they do have a conference separation from each other, would still want to play each other (ooc) in multiple sports, fb and bb certainly included.
OU likely cannot keep Texas and oSu yearly scheduled in fb without one of them coming along with them. The BIG's scheduling methodology, for example, has limited flexibility.

I tend to view oSu as being under-valued by the sports media and chat. oSu has a solid, sustained, and winning program. They get over-shadowed by OU's marquee name and lofty success. The point being, oSu would be regularly and respectedly competitive in any other P5 conference. That cannot be said about everyone else in the B12. Of course I am referencing athletics, and not necessarily market factors, academics, cultural identity, etc.

Future scheduling is a huge part of the problem for OSU and OU. If they are separated then OU needs two OOC games for UT and OSU. So yeah, that's why they are more likely to move together than not. And if OSU is left out of the P5 movement which is possible due to a small market and not having big brand status then it does become a political issue when they suffer a loss of revenue.

This is where the SEC has an advantage. They have the flexibility to invite both OU and OSU if they wish. I don't know if the SEC would be willing to invite OSU in order to attract OU, but I know it's an option.

OSU, as the second school in a state of 3.9 million people, punches way above its weight on the field and on the court. They don't have the market metrics, brand name, or academic pedigree, but they do very well. They would acquit themselves well in any conference. They, as well as OU, would fit in well in the SEC. [I can't believe I just advocated for OSU] 01-lauramac2

OU and the B1G would mutually benefit each other. The B1G would get a football brand name in the west, OU would gain prestigious academic associations.

OU, both institutionally and athletically, is more like an SEC school. It is currently institutionally similar to the flagship universities of the southern states. Athletically, it is a mega-football school with success in men's and women's basketball, softball, gymnastics, golf, and baseball (in the past). OU is good or has been good where the SEC is good. A move to the SEC would be very good for OU.

OU needs to continue to play both OSU and Texas. If OSU moves with OU, then only Texas would be a demanded non-conference opponent. It would be hard to play both Texas and OSU in non-conference football games.

I think there is a very good chance that we play that card. ESPN has suggested it via their talking heads a couple of times. After all, with OU we don't need Texas to access the % of DFW that we want. In some ways OSU is a slight double dip into that market with OU, and with A&M we carry it.

Besides it leaves Texas in a quandary. Do they head West? Do they head North and leave the Texas folks with options at L.S.U., A&M an the two Oklahoma's to keep their kids closer to where they can see them play more games? Or do they try to reload the Big 12 with lesser brands?

With Arkansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M and L.S.U. waiting to fill DKR Stadium will they succumb to their ego, or go with the flow? Especially if they could bring Tech along as well?

Face it. If the SEC can land just one of Oklahoma and Texas they stay on top in an relatively unchallenged way. So with the remainder of the Big 12 for a traveling companion for OU is there really any difference between OSU, WVU, TTU, and TCU? Not really. So if landing OU becomes even more of a lure for Texas it's a smart gamble to take OSU which as you pointed out is not a bad sports product at all. Besides T. Boone might be grateful.
(This post was last modified: 01-05-2018 06:42 PM by JRsec.)
01-05-2018 06:37 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Oklahoma to new conference. preferred partner
The Big Ten probably can't help Oklahoma get either of their big rivals in a 16 team league.

In a conference that only exists in my dreams the Big Ten pulls Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Texas, Texas A&M, and Iowa St into the fold.
01-05-2018 06:44 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Oklahoma to new conference. preferred partner
(01-05-2018 06:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 06:23 PM)johnintx Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 01:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 01:37 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  What the political people, higher educational boards, and oSu boosters, may be concerned about is not so much conference separation between OU and oSu; rather, if OU leaves, oSu is not left in a financially weakened, and much less prestigious conference situation. So, the hope would be oSu gets picked up by another P5, and not remain in a potentially more depleted Big12.
OU and oSu, if they do have a conference separation from each other, would still want to play each other (ooc) in multiple sports, fb and bb certainly included.
OU likely cannot keep Texas and oSu yearly scheduled in fb without one of them coming along with them. The BIG's scheduling methodology, for example, has limited flexibility.

I tend to view oSu as being under-valued by the sports media and chat. oSu has a solid, sustained, and winning program. They get over-shadowed by OU's marquee name and lofty success. The point being, oSu would be regularly and respectedly competitive in any other P5 conference. That cannot be said about everyone else in the B12. Of course I am referencing athletics, and not necessarily market factors, academics, cultural identity, etc.

Future scheduling is a huge part of the problem for OSU and OU. If they are separated then OU needs two OOC games for UT and OSU. So yeah, that's why they are more likely to move together than not. And if OSU is left out of the P5 movement which is possible due to a small market and not having big brand status then it does become a political issue when they suffer a loss of revenue.

This is where the SEC has an advantage. They have the flexibility to invite both OU and OSU if they wish. I don't know if the SEC would be willing to invite OSU in order to attract OU, but I know it's an option.

OSU, as the second school in a state of 3.9 million people, punches way above its weight on the field and on the court. They don't have the market metrics, brand name, or academic pedigree, but they do very well. They would acquit themselves well in any conference. They, as well as OU, would fit in well in the SEC. [I can't believe I just advocated for OSU] 01-lauramac2

OU and the B1G would mutually benefit each other. The B1G would get a football brand name in the west, OU would gain prestigious academic associations.

OU, both institutionally and athletically, is more like an SEC school. It is currently institutionally similar to the flagship universities of the southern states. Athletically, it is a mega-football school with success in men's and women's basketball, softball, gymnastics, golf, and baseball (in the past). OU is good or has been good where the SEC is good. A move to the SEC would be very good for OU.

OU needs to continue to play both OSU and Texas. If OSU moves with OU, then only Texas would be a demanded non-conference opponent. It would be hard to play both Texas and OSU in non-conference football games.

I think there is a very good chance that we play that card. ESPN has suggested it via their talking heads a couple of times. After all, with OU we don't need Texas to access the % of DFW that we want. In some ways OSU is a slight double dip into that market with OU, and with A&M we carry it.

Besides it leaves Texas in a quandary. Do they head West? Do they head North and leave the Texas folks with options at L.S.U., A&M an the two Oklahoma's to keep their kids closer to where they can see them play more games? Or do they try to reload the Big 12 with lesser brands?

With Arkansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M and L.S.U. waiting to fill DKR Stadium will they succumb to their ego, or go with the flow? Especially if they could bring Tech along as well?

Face it. If the SEC can land just one of Oklahoma and Texas they stay on top in an relatively unchallenged way. So with the remainder of the Big 12 for a traveling companion for OU is there really any difference between OSU, WVU, TTU, and TCU? Not really. So if landing OU becomes even more of a lure for Texas it's a smart gamble to take OSU which as you pointed out is not a bad sports product at all. Besides T. Boone might be grateful.

From a gamesmanship perspective taking the Oklahoma pair would be a huge coup for the SEC. It hems in the Big Ten in a huge way and it isolates Texas. Texas can't go north to the Big Ten--the Big Ten can't take them and all of their non-AAU companions. If Texas wants to bail on the Big 12 (and let's face it they won't be heartbroken to leave Kansas, K St, Iowa St, and WVU behind) they have to go west which is undesirable for a number of reasons or they have to grovel their way into your 18+ member southern football confederacy.
01-05-2018 06:54 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Oklahoma to new conference. preferred partner
(01-05-2018 06:54 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 06:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 06:23 PM)johnintx Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 01:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-05-2018 01:37 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  What the political people, higher educational boards, and oSu boosters, may be concerned about is not so much conference separation between OU and oSu; rather, if OU leaves, oSu is not left in a financially weakened, and much less prestigious conference situation. So, the hope would be oSu gets picked up by another P5, and not remain in a potentially more depleted Big12.
OU and oSu, if they do have a conference separation from each other, would still want to play each other (ooc) in multiple sports, fb and bb certainly included.
OU likely cannot keep Texas and oSu yearly scheduled in fb without one of them coming along with them. The BIG's scheduling methodology, for example, has limited flexibility.

I tend to view oSu as being under-valued by the sports media and chat. oSu has a solid, sustained, and winning program. They get over-shadowed by OU's marquee name and lofty success. The point being, oSu would be regularly and respectedly competitive in any other P5 conference. That cannot be said about everyone else in the B12. Of course I am referencing athletics, and not necessarily market factors, academics, cultural identity, etc.

Future scheduling is a huge part of the problem for OSU and OU. If they are separated then OU needs two OOC games for UT and OSU. So yeah, that's why they are more likely to move together than not. And if OSU is left out of the P5 movement which is possible due to a small market and not having big brand status then it does become a political issue when they suffer a loss of revenue.

This is where the SEC has an advantage. They have the flexibility to invite both OU and OSU if they wish. I don't know if the SEC would be willing to invite OSU in order to attract OU, but I know it's an option.

OSU, as the second school in a state of 3.9 million people, punches way above its weight on the field and on the court. They don't have the market metrics, brand name, or academic pedigree, but they do very well. They would acquit themselves well in any conference. They, as well as OU, would fit in well in the SEC. [I can't believe I just advocated for OSU] 01-lauramac2

OU and the B1G would mutually benefit each other. The B1G would get a football brand name in the west, OU would gain prestigious academic associations.

OU, both institutionally and athletically, is more like an SEC school. It is currently institutionally similar to the flagship universities of the southern states. Athletically, it is a mega-football school with success in men's and women's basketball, softball, gymnastics, golf, and baseball (in the past). OU is good or has been good where the SEC is good. A move to the SEC would be very good for OU.

OU needs to continue to play both OSU and Texas. If OSU moves with OU, then only Texas would be a demanded non-conference opponent. It would be hard to play both Texas and OSU in non-conference football games.

I think there is a very good chance that we play that card. ESPN has suggested it via their talking heads a couple of times. After all, with OU we don't need Texas to access the % of DFW that we want. In some ways OSU is a slight double dip into that market with OU, and with A&M we carry it.

Besides it leaves Texas in a quandary. Do they head West? Do they head North and leave the Texas folks with options at L.S.U., A&M an the two Oklahoma's to keep their kids closer to where they can see them play more games? Or do they try to reload the Big 12 with lesser brands?

With Arkansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M and L.S.U. waiting to fill DKR Stadium will they succumb to their ego, or go with the flow? Especially if they could bring Tech along as well?

Face it. If the SEC can land just one of Oklahoma and Texas they stay on top in an relatively unchallenged way. So with the remainder of the Big 12 for a traveling companion for OU is there really any difference between OSU, WVU, TTU, and TCU? Not really. So if landing OU becomes even more of a lure for Texas it's a smart gamble to take OSU which as you pointed out is not a bad sports product at all. Besides T. Boone might be grateful.

From a gamesmanship perspective taking the Oklahoma pair would be a huge coup for the SEC. It hems in the Big Ten in a huge way and it isolates Texas. Texas can't go north to the Big Ten--the Big Ten can't take them and all of their non-AAU companions. If Texas wants to bail on the Big 12 (and let's face it they won't be heartbroken to leave Kansas, K St, Iowa St, and WVU behind) they have to go west which is undesirable for a number of reasons or they have to grovel their way into your 18+ member southern football confederacy.

About the only thing the SEC can't work with where the Big 10 is concerned is penetration of the Deep South. Should the day come when the two conferences split Virginia and North Carolina there wouldn't be much of an uproar about it. Maybe even Georgia Tech because Georgia carries 85% of that state anyway. But Florida is another matter. If we landed Oklahoma and Oklahoma State we carry enough of Texas's key markets that we don't have to have Texas, but with them the advertising rates in the area go up. So we might be a bit covetous of that as well. We'll see.
01-05-2018 07:53 PM
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Post: #40
RE: Oklahoma to new conference. preferred partner
OK, trying not to get into conspiracy theory here, and am not trying to advocate the B12's demise; but assuming such is a possibility, some of the below could become the result:

SEC takes OU and oSu as both an offensive and defensive move. It cuts the B12 in half, and limits BIG and PAC options.

Texas become mutually unrealistic for the BIG. Still, the BIG could add footprint-established AAU schools in ISU and Kansas. The two aren't fb powerhouses and not much of market additions. Still, basic compatibility and convenience are strong.

The ACC takes WVU (or UConn, maybe Cincy). No need for details, other than Notre Dame committing for full-time fb is the prime goal.

The PAC takes Texas, TTU, Kansas State and another (TCU? Rice? UNM?).

If ESPN, P4, etc., really want 4 @ 16 for $$$$s, playoffs, etc.; then something such as the above could develop in several years.

I see others here have advanced similar models and rationale, but don't want to be redundant. That could suggest the "deciders" would be thinking about it.as well in determining what to do when major expansion/realignment rears up again.
(This post was last modified: 01-05-2018 08:27 PM by OdinFrigg.)
01-05-2018 08:23 PM
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