The unofficial online home for fans of the UAB Blazers. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(01-10-2018 12:29 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  

(01-10-2018 07:28 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  Probably a big reason why property tax in Alabama is so incredibly low and also why the government is constantly underfunded and the infrastructure sucks, although Atlanta area voters have passed almost every sales tax increase they've asked for over the past 5 or so years, so it also helps to have a willing public that wants things to improve

The single biggest reason that we are saddled with a very low property tax rate is the 1902 state constitution, which was designed to do two things: Institutionalize Jim Crow and keep property taxes low, particularly for large landowners. As a result, instead of running the state on a steady predictable cash flow from property taxes, it is funded off of sales tax, which ebbs and flows with the economy. This is compounded by much of the state budget being earmarked for particular purposes, or in the case of education funds, the money not being available to the lege to raid for other purposes.

It's a screwed up system - and the only way to fix it is to re-write the constitution. The mind boggles at what might happen when the lege and the people who give them money sit down to plan that out.

But that sounds like work, and you just might make enemies, and you might get a black eye for it and lose voters, so it is a lose, lose, lose proposition for a politician.

The most powerful economic parties in Alabama are the big land owners who can sit on millions of acres of undeveloped land only growing pine trees since it is untaxed. Louisiana-Pacific, Georgia-Pacific, US Steel, the UA System and such join forces with the Farm Bureau and Business Councils of Alabama to block any new taxes they might have to pay.

Not only do they escape state property taxes, the legislature has exempted large agribusiness interests from paying state sales taxes on farm related purchases (like thousands of tons of fertilizer,pest control chemicals and business related vehicles).

I'm delighted with the news of the new Toyota-Mazda auto plant, but wonder if it will pay any taxes to the state in our life time. We may never know the full extent of tax abatement deals the state made to get the plant to come here as well as state supplied (donated free) land and road development at the site. An early attempt was made by the legislature to allow new businesses to keep state income taxes collected from employees by the business as additional profits. By now it may be law.

the 4k new employee will paid tax in al

(01-10-2018 02:01 PM)UABFRENCHY Wrote:  the 4k new employee will paid tax in al

As I noted at the end of my post, the employees will pay state income taxes as before. My question is "Will the state get the money or will the company get to pocket it as additional profits"?

That should be illegal!!!

Those 4,000 employees could pay taxes for a hundred years and not dent the incentive paid to the companies.

(01-10-2018 06:54 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  Those 4,000 employees could pay taxes for a hundred years and not dent the incentive paid to the companies.

But the incentives are essentially letting the receiving business not pay taxes. These incentive arrangements do not involve the state writing a check to Toyota. So the exact same situation that currently exists with Toyota (Alabama isn't writing Toyota a check or receiving tax money related to this plant) will continue in the future when the plant is operating.

However, Alabama will receive new income tax revenue from the 4,000 workers plus all the sales tax revenue generated from those people spending money.

So Alabama's tax situation relative to Toyota is unchanged from its current state while the state gains new tax revenue from all the new jobs. Win win for Alabama.

(01-10-2018 06:54 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  Those 4,000 employees could pay taxes for a hundred years and not dent the incentive paid to the companies.

According to the BBJ article today, there are about a dozen incentive categories that add up to about $400 million in state programs while there are additional local deals working as well. One of these is a state sales tax incentive which means that the SETF is helping to pay for this deal.

(01-10-2018 02:01 PM)UABFRENCHY Wrote:  the 4k new employee will paid tax in al

Plus the plant will cause other businesses to sprout up in the area to serve that plant and those employees. The state will get taxes from those entities.

The reality is that the state has no choice but to provide these inducements since other states are sweetening the pot if Alabama doesn't. Corporations know they are able to hold a state hostage and thereby drive the most advantageous terms it can get. Citizens just assume they will know what their state id giving away because it is public record -- or so they believe. The state legislature is in session and can pass whatever new inducements that may have been promised - we won't know until the session is completed in May or June.

when states offer incentives its not like they are paying the companies cash. sure you are telling company X we are reducing your tax by 50% for ten years. well that remaining 50% is more than the state would have gotten without the deal. all of the improvements to infrastructure to attract the company are there for others to use for theirs. training programs make the state more attractive for other companies as well. people complained about the incentives we provided to land Mercedes. Because of those we also have the Honda, Hyundai, and all the suppliers associated with that. Georgia got KIA and Tennessee got VW but both of those plants are on the border of Alabama because of our supply network. We also got suppliers building plants in Alabama for VW and KIA. Go take a look at Lincoln High School if you want to see some tangible effects.

the economic multiplier of bringing in one of these big industries is huge. you would think UAB fans would understand this fact after spending the last few years screaming about how important UAB is economically. One UAB student has a $40,000 per year impact on the local economy. the same principle applies to the Toyota/Mazda plant on a much larger scale.

Birmingham now in 'middle of diamond' among Toyota-Mazda, other automakers
http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index....river_home

The incentives aren't all tax abatements, there are infrastructure improvements and training programs that the state will be paying for.

I'm not saying it's 100% a bad thing, but it's not 100% a good thing either. At some point these corporations that are making billions of dollars in the state should maybe give a little bit back. As long as all of these companies are never paying any taxes, there will never be money to improve education, and auto assembly will be the best jobs that ever show up in Alabama

But I suppose that is the whole point. To compete with China we must become more like China.

(01-11-2018 08:51 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  As long as all of these companies are never paying any taxes, there will never be money to improve education, and auto assembly will be the best jobs that ever show up in Alabama

This is patently false. Creating new jobs increases tax revenue regardless of if the corporation gets incentives.

(01-11-2018 09:34 AM)imjustafatkid Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 08:51 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  As long as all of these companies are never paying any taxes, there will never be money to improve education, and auto assembly will be the best jobs that ever show up in Alabama

This is patently false. Creating new jobs increases tax revenue regardless of if the corporation gets incentives.

My point is there would have more if those companies were paying their share of taxes. Four thousand mid-level jobs are good, sure, but they aren't even close to what the plant itself would be paying. Same goes when there are sales tax rebates for a new Walmart. Again, I'm not saying it's clear cut in either direction, but giving multi-billion dollar international companies essentially tax free status is not sustainable, not to mention unfair for local companies who don't get sweetheart deals like that

Alabama will invest nearly a billion dollars in this plant. UAB generates $25 for every $1 of state funding. Imagine if *half* that much were put into UAB instead

And to address your "patently false" claim, at the risk of sounding like a certain poster here, check out education funding in Alabama over the past 12 years and tell me that everything is fine with Alabama's tax base

Back to the stadium....

Jeffco officially approved their $30M portion today on a 5-0 vote. David Carrington said he expects the total commitment package (ie; other entities doing their part) to be done within 60 days and expects to break ground in August and open for the 2020 UAB football season.

This could actually be happening!

(01-11-2018 09:54 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  My point is there would have more if those companies were paying their share of taxes. Four thousand mid-level jobs are good, sure, but they aren't even close to what the plant itself would be paying. Same goes when there are sales tax rebates for a new Walmart. Again, I'm not saying it's clear cut in either direction, but giving multi-billion dollar international companies essentially tax free status is not sustainable, not to mention unfair for local companies who don't get sweetheart deals like that

Alabama will invest nearly a billion dollars in this plant. UAB generates $25 for every $1 of state funding. Imagine if *half* that much were put into UAB instead

The alternative is not getting the company to come here at all and just keeping our tax base the same as it was yesterday. What we have today is more than we had before the announcement no matter what the incentive package is. The only direct payout reported was for the building of a training facility to train Alabamians. It's simple: if you want businesses to move here, you give them deals. I think our growing automobile manufacturing industry has shown that we are making some good decisions in that regard.

The state of North Carolina offered a $1.5 Billion incentive package to Toyota-Mazda to relocate there. The state of Alabama's package is only $380 Million. It's hard to see the negatives here unless you're just wanting to be negative.

(01-11-2018 09:54 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  And to address your "patently false" claim, at the risk of sounding like a certain poster here, check out education funding in Alabama over the past 12 years and tell me that everything is fine with Alabama's tax base

The state of Alabama funds education at a higher level than most other states. The statistics you see incorporate all funding (including county and city funding), so they're flawed when talking about the state government alone. The problem with education funding in this state stems from local municipalities not paying enough. It isn't the state.

That isn't a problem in Hoover, Birmingham, Mountain Brook, Vestavia, Huntsville, etc, but it is a problem in the majority of the state.

(01-11-2018 11:22 AM)hooverblazer Wrote:  Jeffco officially approved their $30M portion today on a 5-0 vote. David Carrington said he expects the total commitment package (ie; other entities doing their part) to be done within 60 days and expects to break ground in August and open for the 2020 UAB football season.

I heard him in an interview on JOX this morning, and he said he wants UAB to play the first game there. They're shooting to have it completed before the World Games at the latest.

Carrington saw it as an open agenda item & wanted to complete it & move on. Jeffco did & has.

The bigger problem is our newly elected Obama in the city will not go for this nor will the city council.

This will become more & more apparent so you can direct all of your complaining to the new prince of bel Birmingham.

(01-11-2018 12:30 PM)the_blazerman Wrote:  newly elected Obama

Give me a f'n break