One of the announcing teams in the Bahamas indicated that JMU had not put together two good halves in the same game all year. That was an astute observation then and still is. I thought the team got tired at the end of the first half when the lead disappeared. Rowe was only playing about 7 guys at that point. This team has athleticism and size and should press more and play transition ball more, as Hart accurately points out. Shooting is not a strength at this point. We've also seen Phillips revert more to the mean after that stretch where he was playing well. Now, he's turnover prone, can't finish around the basket and can't make free throws. We're also seeing what looks like a worn down Mosley perhaps with all the double teaming and defensive emphasis against him. McLean, meanwhile, continues to foul too often and make mistakes. Not that there are many guys on this team at this point, but I would lighten the minutes of the starters. Too bad again that Scissom quit when he did. He should have stayed out the season and then reassessed. One of the few bright spots tonight was the continued emergence of Wilson. He's very efficient offensively, can hit his free throws and he stays away from foul trouble. He's also tremendously strong and looks like a 40 year old man against a bunch of teenagers. Couple last points: that exhibition game was not what this team needed. They look a little tired at this point. I agree that Rowe doesn't use time outs judiciously to stem the tide and they also seem ill prepared for making late comebacks in their use of fouls and the clock.

We look like an AAU team playing against well coached college basketball teams. Lou seems to struggle with in-game adjustments.

(01-02-2018 06:42 PM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  anyone have a chromecastable link?

Had the same issue when Dukes Football was on College Sports Live. Could only use Roku. Everything should just work, it's 2018 for crying out loud!

(01-02-2018 09:45 PM)nyduke Wrote:  things are not getting better

Things suck. Let’s cut our losses after this season. It’s not going to get any better.

I don't think the number of players in the rotation is making a difference- I don't sense that the players are tired. I think the subs are appropriate the team just isn't executing winning basketball. That's on the players and the coaches. The hope is that in going through this they will both (players and coaches) learn to play winning basketball- executing on key possessions during key times in the game. Whether it's making a big shot when needed or a big stop when needed. Often they play ok defense for most of the shot clock only to give up an easy one as the shot clock goes down. That's inexcusable.

In some cases the younger guys are learning about playing D1 and that you can't let up and you have to keep your focus every second of the possession. They are all very talented and probably haven't had to do that up until this point. It's up to the coaches to impress that on them and help them progress as a group.

I think it would be a good idea to mix up the starting lineup. Shake things up a little. There was an article in the DNR where Lewis said that his role is to create offense off the bench- he's shown signs of being a very good player but at times his decision making isn't the greatest. Make him a starter and maybe he plays within himself a little more. What do you really have to lose. I think the logical way of thinking is to start McLean - he's a senior he's played bigger minutes and started before. I don't think he's a starter on this team. No disrespect to him but I don't think McLean is a starter on a winning basketball team. Have him be the first guard off the bench. The same for Phillips. Both guys seem to be foul prone. Let them come off the bench in spurts. Start Mosely (1), Lewis (2) Banks (3) Snowden (4) and Wilson (5). I think that would help and if it doesn't in terms of wins and losses I think it will in terms of the Freshmen developing. Time for Rowe to make some tough decisions and switching McLean and Lewis and Phillips and Wilson are two that he can make.

BTW this idea that JMU should fire Rowe I think is ridiculous. Barring some off court issues you have to give Rowe until the end of next year. I still believe that this years team can start to turn the corner but it may be another rough season. That's said, you really have to give the team into the off season, make sure everyone come back puts in the work and improves and is poised for a breakout make or break season next season.

I think the benchmark for next years team should be 18+ wins (over .500) and continued progression from the young guys (rising sophomores) but I think we'll all know by watching them over the next two years if Rowe is going to get it done or not. I believe that if the team isn't where they need to be he will either get fired out resign on his own because he'll realize that it's not working. For any coach you owe him 3 years to try to get it on the right track especially for a guy like Rowe who is an alum and has been a big part of the JMU program for some time. If at the end of next year we are still struggling you part ways and bring in a bigger name/higher paid coach to help launch the new arena.

Rowe is going to get at least a 3rd year. Not even worthy of debate. He needs to close on another couple of HS guys - especially a post and preferably another point guard, if possible. He can recruit his way out of this mess. In these days of transfer"itis", he must do his best to assure the young'uns that are on board now come back as well.

While transfers, JUCO's, grad transfers, etc., are more a fabric of college athletics today than ever before (not just in hoops, btw), it is best to sign HS kids and develop them. As Mike Bray at Notre Dame likes to say... "get old and stay old"... meaning, develop guys and always have a stable of Jr's and Sr's. He's the anti-One-and-Done formula driver that we are now seeing K and Calipari and others embracing.

I'd like to see a lot more of Wilson moving forward. For such a big guy, he has soft hands which is an underappreciated asset in the post. Like the others (all of them, not just freshmen), he is a liability at times defensively. But, I like the fact he is learning and this will hopefully pay off moving forward.

(01-03-2018 07:37 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  BTW this idea that JMU should fire Rowe I think is ridiculous. Barring some off court issues you have to give Rowe until the end of next year. I still believe that this years team can start to turn the corner but it may be another rough season. That's said, you really have to give the team into the off season, make sure everyone come back puts in the work and improves and is poised for a breakout make or break season next season.

I don't like what's coming out of the program right now, but I agree. Firing GOAT HCLR sets the program back another 3 years. He should (and I believe he will definitely) have his chance to complete his 3rd year (18-19). Year 4 is the turning point for the program. New convo will be over half way completed, and JMU needs an exciting program to put in that new facility in year 5. If we don't have it together by year 4, we part ways and pony up to pay the price for experience and what a top tier basketball program would pay a winning coach. If it happens any differently, well that would be bad for JMU.

Duke84 12-31-17

"We are not a well-coached team on either side of the ball"


Duke84 11/2/17

"this team is skilled and can really shoot the ball"

"Should be an entertaining and fun season in any event"

roster of 13. only 2 players returning from last year. 5 freshmen receiving big minutes.

anyone who expected anything but inconsistency and low IQ basketball just doesn't understand how this works.

there are solid pieces on this team. It's just going to take time because these guys are not experienced yet. They have to learn they can't just rely on pure talent anymore.

and yes, I know at Kansas and Duke and Kentucky and Arizona youth is not a problem. But last I checked, the CAA isn't Kansas, Duke, Kentucky or Arizona. It takes time.

It's frustrating, no doubt. but I think we are going to get there with these guys.

(01-03-2018 09:01 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  roster of 13. only 2 players returning from last year. 5 freshmen receiving big minutes.

anyone who expected anything but inconsistency and low IQ basketball just doesn't understand how this works.

there are solid pieces on this team. It's just going to take time because these guys are not experienced yet. They have to learn they can't just rely on pure talent anymore.

and yes, I know at Kansas and Duke and Kentucky and Arizona youth is not a problem. But last I checked, the CAA isn't Kansas, Duke, Kentucky or Arizona. It takes time.

It's frustrating, no doubt. but I think we are going to get there with these guys.

Agree. Rowe is laying a solid foundation with talent. His 2 signees in November look like they can and will be good contributors. Very important he follows up last year's stellar class with another one. I hope Lou is our HC when the UB&T Center (damn, we need a nickname for that place) because that means this program has gotten past this tough stretch of rebuild and we are doing significantly better in the W-L columns. But, even if he isn't, these young'uns, this foundation will be upperclassmen with experience by then for whoever can take the team of horses and drive them.

It's tough right now and I know nobody hurts worse about it than Lou because he bleeds purple & gold. Still a lot of ball left. Hopefully we see more bright spots like Wilson of late.

(01-02-2018 08:56 PM)JacksonHall Wrote:  Ugh. This team has had so many tough losses. It's good to see the emergence of Wilson the last couple games. JMU needs one more reliable scorer to step up in these tough games and it really should be Snowden. It's great to have it ass your goal to lead in assists every game, but your a damn forward. Show some senior leadership and score some points.

I agree 100%, like what I see from Wilson, I would like to see JMU go big some with Wilson and Phillips on the floor together.

I also agree with you Snowden observations. He simply seems so passive offensively. I had high expectations for him last year and again this year. The past 2 season, for me, Snowden is the 'most' disappointing player on this team.

(01-02-2018 09:15 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  That was a disappointing second half. JMU went from giving up very few backdoor cuts in the first half to giving up a season’s worth in the 2nd half.
Not sure why Rowe didn’t press hardly at all tonight. He threw in a couple of soft zone presses, but really did not try to leverage his athletic advantage. W&M proceeded to carve them up in the half court and did it almost exclusively with their starting 5.

Dukes are 0-2 at home to start CAA play and have the next 3 on the road. They can very easily be looking at an 0-5 start and another Keener round appearance at the CAA tournament.

I think JMU should open it up and press more as well.....but hard press full court with a 7 man rotation. Run out of legs.

(01-02-2018 10:23 PM)JMU Wrote:  

(01-02-2018 09:45 PM)nyduke Wrote:  things are not getting better

Things suck. Let’s cut our losses after this season. It’s not going to get any better.

I think you have to give a coach 3 years.....I support Rowe but if this is the same after year 3, I agree with you. I do think we have better players now than JMU has had in the last 2 years.

Yes this team has a talented freshman class of 5 guys, but other teams have large infusions of new players and don't go 4-11 to start the season after starting the previous season at 1-11 with a very experienced team returning from a 21 win season after winning 19 the season before. It's incumbent on Rowe to recognize his own shortcomings as a coach and to bring on staff that can help install offensive and defensive schemes to allow the team to be successful. Other teams at this point are getting better because they've been practicing since early October and have mastered those schemes. It's very tough to play free lance, isolation basketball and expect to win with any consistency. I would tell any doubters of this issue to go see the team play in person. Another year of this is supposed to magically result in a top tier CAA team that wins 20 games? Five possessions being out of place defensively over the course of the game can easily lead to 8 or 10 points, the difference between winning and losing. Walfish mentioned the other day that JMU's three point defense, for example, was 299th in the country (out of roughly 350 teams). Conversely, it's easy to defend JMU because there's not sufficient player or ball movement within the context of an offensive scheme.

There were those that said JMU was losing last year because of a lack of talent, not coaching. We've seen the talent improve considerably and the results are the same. What does that tell you?

(01-03-2018 09:16 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(01-02-2018 10:23 PM)JMU Wrote:  

(01-02-2018 09:45 PM)nyduke Wrote:  things are not getting better

Things suck. Let’s cut our losses after this season. It’s not going to get any better.

I think you have to give a coach 3 years.....I support Rowe but if this is the same after year 3, I agree with you. I do think we have better players now than JMU has had in the last 2 years.

Rowe played on a winning team under Lefty, he should know how to win

right now we are not looking real good and this is coming from a Lou defender. Here are a couple of random facts to throw in the mix.

joey is playing hurt. My understanding is that his knees have been swelling up after games for a while now. It probably explains why he has not looked good for a number of games and also why Lou has had to cut back his minutes. Poor Joey was killing everyone in practice back in the early fall and right now he is grinding to get through practice.

Phillips has been a real enigma for Lou. He will look like a world beater at times but ultimately he has not had the motor to play good defense. Watch him get lost when he hedges a ball screen. Also look how is always a bit slow with his help defense. If he figures it out JMU gets a good bit better. His lousy motor is why he lasted about a minute at Depaul.

The one silver lining in all of this has been dwight wilson. He is still a liability on defense but he wants to get better and right now he is better in that area than he was back against Bridgewater. Because he has not had a lot of minutes he is slowly getting into game shape. Dwight has always been a bit of a sleeper on offense. Like a lot of high schools, Dwight played in a guard oriented offense where his main expectation was to get rebounds. I think at some point in his future he could easily be an all CAA type player. He weighs close to 270 pounds and he is not afraid of hard work.

A big valid criticism of this team has been the lack of a true point guard. While Joey is not a true point guard I think the injury problem has really diminished his value. At times the offense looks like a lot of one on one which is a bit misleading. When both Joey and Matt drive into the paint the offense is designed for them to have the option of continuing or hitting the open man. Both Joey and Matt have not been good at looking for the open man in this situation. This is where Lou has to figure it out in terms of getting them to give the ball up.

My final observation would be to state the obvious which is that it is tough to win with this many new faces, particularly freshman. When Lou got here a year ago he hit a home run with Stuckey but struck out with the other three recruits. I give him a total pass on Scissum, a number of mid major schools also wanted him at the time. He was high ranked coming out of high school but in the end he was not that good. In order to compete for a CAA title you don't need all 13 of your scholarships to be world beaters, but Lou really could have used at least one of the other two kids to have had some value so that they would now have the one year of experience under their belt.

(01-03-2018 09:16 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(01-02-2018 10:23 PM)JMU Wrote:  

(01-02-2018 09:45 PM)nyduke Wrote:  things are not getting better

Things suck. Let’s cut our losses after this season. It’s not going to get any better.

I think you have to give a coach 3 years.....I support Rowe but if this is the same after year 3, I agree with you. I do think we have better players now than JMU has had in the last 2 years.

Exactly. Give Rowe another good recruiting class and then evaluate and see where we stand at the end of next year. Bourne, in recent years, has gone after excellent recruiters after the firing of a coach (Matthews and Brady) which led to Withers and Rowe who were both touted for their recruiting skills. This philosophy has proven to be successful on the football side, but the basketball side started 2 years later. If Rowe is the guy, then it’s going to take a few years to get his guys and for them to develop. But if not, Bourne knows he has to leave a solid foundation and talented players for the next coach to want to come to JMU as the program is getting ready to take a HUGE step into the new convo. If the team continues to struggle after next eat then changes will be made and I believe Bourne will go get a proven head coach on the rise from a lower tier D1 program to lead the program into the new Convo.

Some observations from the box score...


1. The Dukes forced 18 TO's. W&M averaged just under 13 a game going into last night.

2. Balanced scoring - Dukes had 5 guys in double digits + 2 others with 7 or more...Snowden (8) & Banks (7).

3. W&M's 5 starters all scored 13 or more and they had only 1 other scorer who had 4 pts.

4. Jacobs with only 2 minutes of play. Very concerning.

5. From the time JMU built a 14 pt lead with 3:59 left in the 1st half, W&M from there on shot 7 of 12 (58%) from outside the arc. JMU in that same time frame went 4 of 14 on 3's (29%).

(01-03-2018 10:50 AM)Dukes84 Wrote:  Yes this team has a talented freshman class of 5 guys, but other teams have large infusions of new players and don't go 4-11 to start the season after starting the previous season at 1-11 with a very experienced team returning from a 21 win season after winning 19 the season before. It's incumbent on Rowe to recognize his own shortcomings as a coach and to bring on staff that can help install offensive and defensive schemes to allow the team to be successful. Other teams at this point are getting better because they've been practicing since early October and have mastered those schemes. It's very tough to play free lance, isolation basketball and expect to win with any consistency. I would tell any doubters of this issue to go see the team play in person. Another year of this is supposed to magically result in a top tier CAA team that wins 20 games? Five possessions being out of place defensively over the course of the game can easily lead to 8 or 10 points, the difference between winning and losing. Walfish mentioned the other day that JMU's three point defense, for example, was 299th in the country (out of roughly 350 teams). Conversely, it's easy to defend JMU because there's not sufficient player or ball movement within the context of an offensive scheme.

There were those that said JMU was losing last year because of a lack of talent, not coaching. We've seen the talent improve considerably and the results are the same. What does that tell you?

I realize that Rowe doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt or any slack but to put things a little in perspective. The 2013-14 Dukes were pretty similar to this group in terms of age. That Dukes team had a Sophomore backcourt of Ron Curry and Charles Cooke.

That team often looked disjointed offensively and was prone to lapses on defense. These things can change pretty quickly over the course of a year. That team lost 20 games (win 4 OOC and 6 In conference) That team had all those freshman who were Seniors last year who a lot of folks kill Rowe for underperforming with.

I guess you can't have it both ways in terms of saying they were talented freshman who struggled mightily their first season or that they weren't talented and admitting that Rowe had a pretty mediocre group last year.

I personally think the current 17-18 team is more talented and better than that group but I wanted to point out that with a "system" and a "good" coach that team really struggled. You want to say they never recovered from Nation being suspended or ineligible or whatever he was maybe I'll give you that. By the next year Cooke was gone but Curry made a huge leap in terms of his play and that made all the difference in the following 2 seasons (Curry's Junior and Senior seasons).

I'm a big believer in point guards. In college basketball on offense especially at the end of the shot clock or end of the game you want the ball in the hands of someone who can make something happen, make good decisions and has the ability to score from beyond 3 and at the basket at will. Curry developed into that kind of player. Rowe's biggest failure thus far is his inability to bring in a PG. He whiffed on the late recruiting cycle last year and a full recruiting cycle this year. Or did he? I think this idea of a true PG is a little overdone. He has a guy in Mosely on the roster who is more than capable. Curry was not a true PG- he was a scoring PG. Mosely can get assists and doesn't really turn the ball over. He also can score from 3 and driving to the basket. Mosely is your scoring/starting PG end of story.

Despite what Bogey witnessed at practices I just don't think McLean has that in him. I was more confident in Jackson Kent last year in those spots than I am in McLean this year and that wasn't a natural role for Kent but one he played out of necessity.

Rowe needs to put the ball in Mosely's hands for this year and to help the team be that much better next season. Lewis may eventually develop into that type of player (like Curry did) maybe 18 income freshman Deshon Parker will eventually be a nice player but usually that guy is an upper classman. The other guys (Wilson, Lewis, Banks, Jones, and Jacobs) will make leaps in their games around Mosely and this team is closer than you think from being a good team despite the lack of a "system" or the lack of a "good coach". I just hope Rowe doesn't wait for a natural PG to develop to field a good team because it will be too late.

(01-03-2018 10:19 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 10:50 AM)Dukes84 Wrote:  Yes this team has a talented freshman class of 5 guys, but other teams have large infusions of new players and don't go 4-11 to start the season after starting the previous season at 1-11 with a very experienced team returning from a 21 win season after winning 19 the season before. It's incumbent on Rowe to recognize his own shortcomings as a coach and to bring on staff that can help install offensive and defensive schemes to allow the team to be successful. Other teams at this point are getting better because they've been practicing since early October and have mastered those schemes. It's very tough to play free lance, isolation basketball and expect to win with any consistency. I would tell any doubters of this issue to go see the team play in person. Another year of this is supposed to magically result in a top tier CAA team that wins 20 games? Five possessions being out of place defensively over the course of the game can easily lead to 8 or 10 points, the difference between winning and losing. Walfish mentioned the other day that JMU's three point defense, for example, was 299th in the country (out of roughly 350 teams). Conversely, it's easy to defend JMU because there's not sufficient player or ball movement within the context of an offensive scheme.

There were those that said JMU was losing last year because of a lack of talent, not coaching. We've seen the talent improve considerably and the results are the same. What does that tell you?

I realize that Rowe doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt or any slack but to put things a little in perspective. The 2013-14 Dukes were pretty similar to this group in terms of age. That Dukes team had a Sophomore backcourt of Ron Curry and Charles Cooke.

That team often looked disjointed offensively and was prone to lapses on defense. These things can change pretty quickly over the course of a year. That team lost 20 games (win 4 OOC and 6 In conference) That team had all those freshman who were Seniors last year who a lot of folks kill Rowe for underperforming with.

I guess you can't have it both ways in terms of saying they were talented freshman who struggled mightily their first season or that they weren't talented and admitting that Rowe had a pretty mediocre group last year.

I personally think the current 17-18 team is more talented and better than that group but I wanted to point out that with a "system" and a "good" coach that team really struggled. You want to say they never recovered from Nation being suspended or ineligible or whatever he was maybe I'll give you that. By the next year Cooke was gone but Curry made a huge leap in terms of his play and that made all the difference in the following 2 seasons (Curry's Junior and Senior seasons).

I'm a big believer in point guards. In college basketball on offense especially at the end of the shot clock or end of the game you want the ball in the hands of someone who can make something happen, make good decisions and has the ability to score from beyond 3 and at the basket at will. Curry developed into that kind of player. Rowe's biggest failure thus far is his inability to bring in a PG. He whiffed on the late recruiting cycle last year and a full recruiting cycle this year. Or did he? I think this idea of a true PG is a little overdone. He has a guy in Mosely on the roster who is more than capable. Curry was not a true PG- he was a scoring PG. Mosely can get assists and doesn't really turn the ball over. He also can score from 3 and driving to the basket. Mosely is your scoring/starting PG end of story.

Despite what Bogey witnessed at practices I just don't think McLean has that in him. I was more confident in Jackson Kent last year in those spots than I am in McLean this year and that wasn't a natural role for Kent but one he played out of necessity.

Rowe needs to put the ball in Mosely's hands for this year and to help the team be that much better next season. Lewis may eventually develop into that type of player (like Curry did) maybe 18 income freshman Deshon Parker will eventually be a nice player but usually that guy is an upper classman. The other guys (Wilson, Lewis, Banks, Jones, and Jacobs) will make leaps in their games around Mosely and this team is closer than you think from being a good team despite the lack of a "system" or the lack of a "good coach". I just hope Rowe doesn't wait for a natural PG to develop to field a good team because it will be too late.

97 --

I think this year's team is more like the team prior to the one that you cited when the talented class of Curry, Cooke and Nation were freshman alongside a solid senior class. That team made the NCAAs and won a play-in game. If you'll recall, that team hung its hat on defense and kept getting better as the season progressed, which showed that freshman can play good defense. That season was also the first for one Mike Deane if I'm recalling correctly. The following season -- the one that you cited -- wasn't good at all because Nation got suspended for a period of time (or couple of periods) as I recall and they were joined by that big freshman class that was completely unimpressive. Only Dalembert from that class seemed to show something. The next season, however, without Cooke, they managed to win 19 games. We'll see what JMU does next season, but I don't expect a 19 win season at this point.