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Poll: Deserving of extension or Not deserving
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Deserves 22.34% 21 22.34%
Doesn’t deserve 77.66% 73 77.66%
Total 94 vote(s) 100%
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Extension or No extension ? Poll
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jjj Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Extension or No extension ? Poll
(01-01-2018 11:56 PM)VegasHuskie Wrote:  
(01-01-2018 04:06 PM)jjj Wrote:  
(01-01-2018 03:52 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(01-01-2018 03:19 PM)jjj Wrote:  Yes, there has been ridiculous play calls, and coaching strategies. But at the end of they day, any wins over power 5 schools are major achievements and are my greatest NIU football memories along with MAC titles, which Coach Carey has achieved.

I am in the camp of keep him and do not want to return to the 90s of losing game after game and the program is a complete joke......

But the QB that played against Nebraska got benched after one bad game.

Who cares? If coaches "know" who the best qb is, how come Tom Brady and Brett Favre only got their chances because of a qb getting hurt..?....


This is such a silly post, Triple J. Both Favre and Brady were just starting their second season in the NFL. Brady was playing behind a pro bowl quarterback in Bledsoe, and Majikowski was a decent NFL QB, although by no means spectacular.

More importantly, there is a very large learning curve between collegiate and NFL football. Although we see if far more now, in the Brady and Favre era, young quarterbacks rarely were handed starting jobs.

Favre and Brady's insertion into the starting lineup was accelerated by injuries to the QB's playing ahead of them, however it's comical to imply that was the only reason they got their chance to play. They both would have found the field eventually.

Why did Atlanta trade a future hall of famer in Favre to GB if he
was showing hall of fame promise?? And why did no team draft
the greatest qb of all time until the 6th round? Brady was third on the dept chart in NE.....He was seen as a serviceable backup for New England, those are facts...

If Brady he was going to truly be the next great franchise qb for NE he would have been taken in the first or second round like Peyton Manning and would of had scouts drooling over him.....Only one scout called the Michigan coach to inquiry about Brady and that was a New England scout...
and we are talking about the greatest qb of all time. Evaluating players is like picking stocks, it is "not a science".
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2018 12:27 AM by jjj.)
01-02-2018 12:14 AM
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NIUfrank Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Extension or No extension ? Poll
Your two example isn't the majority if evaluations. Of course there will exceptions. Just like small DE like Sutton Smith. Although I hope his production doesn't decrease last 2 years like lurry.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2018 12:18 AM by NIUfrank.)
01-02-2018 12:17 AM
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VegasHuskie Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Extension or No extension ? Poll
(01-02-2018 12:14 AM)jjj Wrote:  
(01-01-2018 11:56 PM)VegasHuskie Wrote:  
(01-01-2018 04:06 PM)jjj Wrote:  
(01-01-2018 03:52 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(01-01-2018 03:19 PM)jjj Wrote:  Yes, there has been ridiculous play calls, and coaching strategies. But at the end of they day, any wins over power 5 schools are major achievements and are my greatest NIU football memories along with MAC titles, which Coach Carey has achieved.

I am in the camp of keep him and do not want to return to the 90s of losing game after game and the program is a complete joke......

But the QB that played against Nebraska got benched after one bad game.

Who cares? If coaches "know" who the best qb is, how come Tom Brady and Brett Favre only got their chances because of a qb getting hurt..?....


This is such a silly post, Triple J. Both Favre and Brady were just starting their second season in the NFL. Brady was playing behind a pro bowl quarterback in Bledsoe, and Majikowski was a decent NFL QB, although by no means spectacular.

More importantly, there is a very large learning curve between collegiate and NFL football. Although we see if far more now, in the Brady and Favre era, young quarterbacks rarely were handed starting jobs.

Favre and Brady's insertion into the starting lineup was accelerated by injuries to the QB's playing ahead of them, however it's comical to imply that was the only reason they got their chance to play. They both would have found the field eventually.

Why did Atlanta trade a future hall of famer in Favre to GB if he
was showing hall of fame promise?? And why did no team draft
the greatest qb of all time until the 6th round? Brady was third on the dept chart in NE.....He was seen as a serviceable backup for New England, those are facts...

If Brady he was going to truly be the next great franchise qb for NE he would have been taken in the first or second round like Peyton Manning and would of had scouts drooling over him.....Only one scout called the Michigan coach to inquiry about Brady and that was a New England scout...
and we are talking about the greatest qb of all time. Evaluating players is like picking stocks, it is "not a science".

Atlanta traded Favre because Atlanta coach Jerry Glanville didn't want him. He hated Favre and wanted nothing to do with him from the moment he was drafted. It had nothing to do with his talent.

As for Brady, there have been numerous teenagers playing college football that aren't regarded that highly who eventually blossom into stars. He started as number four on the depth chart in New England but quickly rose to number two before displacing Bledsoe.

Your points have no point.
01-02-2018 12:36 AM
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jjj Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Extension or No extension ? Poll
(01-02-2018 12:36 AM)VegasHuskie Wrote:  
(01-02-2018 12:14 AM)jjj Wrote:  
(01-01-2018 11:56 PM)VegasHuskie Wrote:  
(01-01-2018 04:06 PM)jjj Wrote:  
(01-01-2018 03:52 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  But the QB that played against Nebraska got benched after one bad game.

Who cares? If coaches "know" who the best qb is, how come Tom Brady and Brett Favre only got their chances because of a qb getting hurt..?....


This is such a silly post, Triple J. Both Favre and Brady were just starting their second season in the NFL. Brady was playing behind a pro bowl quarterback in Bledsoe, and Majikowski was a decent NFL QB, although by no means spectacular.

More importantly, there is a very large learning curve between collegiate and NFL football. Although we see if far more now, in the Brady and Favre era, young quarterbacks rarely were handed starting jobs.

Favre and Brady's insertion into the starting lineup was accelerated by injuries to the QB's playing ahead of them, however it's comical to imply that was the only reason they got their chance to play. They both would have found the field eventually.

Why did Atlanta trade a future hall of famer in Favre to GB if he
was showing hall of fame promise?? And why did no team draft
the greatest qb of all time until the 6th round? Brady was third on the dept chart in NE.....He was seen as a serviceable backup for New England, those are facts...

If Brady he was going to truly be the next great franchise qb for NE he would have been taken in the first or second round like Peyton Manning and would of had scouts drooling over him.....Only one scout called the Michigan coach to inquiry about Brady and that was a New England scout...
and we are talking about the greatest qb of all time. Evaluating players is like picking stocks, it is "not a science".

Atlanta traded Favre because Atlanta coach Jerry Glanville didn't want him. He hated Favre and wanted nothing to do with him from the moment he was drafted. It had nothing to do with his talent.

As for Brady, there have been numerous teenagers playing college football that aren't regarded that highly who eventually blossom into stars. He started as number four on the depth chart in New England but quickly rose to number two before displacing Bledsoe.

Your points have no point.




Last post on this debate and you just stated the flaw in your argument:


"As for Brady, there have been numerous teenagers playing college football that aren't regarded that highly who eventually blossom into stars"

Look at your words....("arent highly regarded"). Your premise is that it is well known who the starter should be, which qb or rb should be playing, and who the future hall of famers will be, but read what you just wrote. Why are these future stars not highly regarded??? Because talent evaluation is not a science.

My point again is that evaluating players is NOT a science and in a lot of cases, a wrong decision is made about the potential of a player....All the schools that passed on Michael Turner come to mind....He had only one offer.

You should go read the detailed NFL scouting report one scout wrote about Tom Brady saying he had no chance to make it in the nfl......

Look at all the NFL teams who passed on Hall of Famers such as Brady, Bart Starr (17th round), Terrell Davis (6th round), Richard Dent (8th round) ......They were clearly wrong on their talent evaluation of these players.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2018 01:56 AM by jjj.)
01-02-2018 01:52 AM
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NIUfrank Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Extension or No extension ? Poll
He only got one offer because he probably was low rated player. We're lucky he developed later because if he was more highly developed in HS and would have got more offers and we might have lost him.

We think your agreument is flawed. How many late round pics become stars or even stay in the league. Most starters are top3 pics, and 3-5 stars, most pro bowlers are 4- 5 stars. A majority of time they get it right.
01-02-2018 05:24 AM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Extension or No extension ? Poll
It IS a science. It's just a science that is in the early stages and has not been pinned down that well.
01-02-2018 08:37 AM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Extension or No extension ? Poll
(01-02-2018 08:37 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  It IS a science. It's just a science that is in the early stages and has not been pinned down that well.

Finding a QB is 50% skill and 50% luck(Not Andrew). Instead of listing the QBs who were passed over and succeeded like Favre and Brady, a better example is the numerous first round Qbs who fail. These are the highest rated QBS on the draft board who have been studied, interviewed, profiled and probed...and they bust out in 2 years. Whether the jump is from HS to college or college to the NFL, there is just no tried and true way to project how an athlete will respond.
01-02-2018 08:39 AM
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NIUfrank Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Extension or No extension ? Poll
Qb evaluation is good stat. That and wr are probably worst evaluations. Although they always give a range when evaluating. Floor to ceiling. Desperation may alter their thoughts.

I think trubisky will bust. So it will go down as one of worst trades in history. Brown's are getting crap for not taking Watson but they loaded up on pics, still may get franchise qb one year later and Watson still may bust.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2018 09:14 AM by NIUfrank.)
01-02-2018 08:49 AM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Extension or No extension ? Poll
(01-02-2018 08:39 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(01-02-2018 08:37 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  It IS a science. It's just a science that is in the early stages and has not been pinned down that well.

Finding a QB is 50% skill and 50% luck(Not Andrew). Instead of listing the QBs who were passed over and succeeded like Favre and Brady, a better example is the numerous first round Qbs who fail. These are the highest rated QBS on the draft board who have been studied, interviewed, profiled and probed...and they bust out in 2 years. Whether the jump is from HS to college or college to the NFL, there is just no tried and true way to project how an athlete will respond.

That's why I said it's a science that hasn't been pinned down very well.
01-02-2018 09:08 AM
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Splooie99 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Extension or No extension ? Poll
Here are the problems I saw over the last few years.
O-Line play has not improved and really took a step back. (Carey was an O-line coach)
QB play is definitely worst. (Tough compare to both Lynch and Harnish)
Last season receivers either could not get open, lost so much confidence in their QBb that the effort dropped off, or they all were a step slower then previous groups.
D-line has improved as well as linebackers. Can't wait to see next years front 7.
Secondary has pretty much stayed on par with past groups.
Field goal kicking was awful. The new Punter is very good. Return game has dropped off.

How do you judge these changes. Is it recruiting, coaching or is it something else. In the previous year, we had QB injury issues that really hurt this team. I think QB play is a major reason we see the digression in NIU football. You put Lynch or Harnish in this last years team and you go undefeated. Or at least 10 wins.

But, since we didn't have that QB to lead the team forward, we struggled. It is a good question as to why did Carey make the change in QB's.

Winning against the sub-500 teams is one thing. Beating the Toledos and CM's in the division is something else. Bad game time decisions have cost us and yes, that fake punt against Duke was the worst call I have ever seen in 40 years of watching football.

I for one, have not been a Carey fan, but he is our coach and that's all we can do about it now. I expect to see a coaching change in the next 2 years unless Childers improves his passing game. Remember that neither Harnish or Lynch started as a freshman. Time will tell on that front. We need to see open receivers and a QB who can hit them in stride. We get that going, and we win the MAC and give all of our opponents a good game. Next years OOC schedule looks tough. I will see you all at Iowa and Utah next year. Let us hope the QB play improves. I guess it cannot get worse.
01-02-2018 10:14 AM
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jjj Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Extension or No extension ? Poll
Yes, I agree a better way to support my argument is to list the "cant miss" future all pros named Drew Bledsoe, Maurice Clarett, Cade McKnown,
Matt Leinart, and Johnny Football among others........


It is going to be interesting to see where Santa transfer too, and if he does indeed prove Rod Carey wrong.......He seems like a nice kid and I will root for him where ever he lands, but college football at the qb position is a very competitive position.......

I am also hoping for improvement our qb play, because if there is not, we may be looking at an 0-4 non conference start.....
01-02-2018 12:23 PM
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HuskieTap22 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Extension or No extension ? Poll
Six years as a MAC head coach is pushing the bounds unless you are Solich or Bowden who have both already made their names at bigger programs. There really is no middle ground for most coaches in this conference. NIU is kinda stuck in the middle right now but I would think that will change here over the next season or two. Especially when you consider how loaded the OOC schedules are the next couple seasons.

I would never root against NIU. Let the performance on the field drive the decisions. Coaches come and go but the fans will always be the backbone of the program. NIU is still one of the better G5 programs. If the current staff can’t get it done then there should be plenty of high upside candidates interested in taking a shot here.
01-02-2018 01:19 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Extension or No extension ? Poll
I wonder what STF considers "getting the job done" in football?
01-02-2018 01:58 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Extension or No extension ? Poll
(01-02-2018 01:58 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  I wonder what STF considers "getting the job done" in football?

The contract outlines "getting the job done" pretty well, specifically the "General Duties," "Specific Responsibilities" and "Performance Incentive" clauses.

https://hkm.com/football/contracts/rod-carey/

Depending on the philosophy of how the contact was written, one may even be able to understand that the most important aspects of his employment are spelled out 1-7 under Performance Incentive, notwithstanding the nebulous definition of "perform all duties and responsibilities reasonably attendant to the position of a Division One Football Head Coach as set forth in this Agreement." (bold is my emphasis)

In my people manager opinion he seems to be getting the job done as it pertains contractually, but of course, I cannot define what "reasonably attendant" is because I am not an NIU Athletics people manager.
01-02-2018 02:23 PM
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jjprender Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Extension or No extension ? Poll
(01-02-2018 12:23 PM)jjj Wrote:  Yes, I agree a better way to support my argument is to list the "cant miss" future all pros named Drew Bledsoe, Maurice Clarett, Cade McKnown,
Matt Leinart, and Johnny Football among others........


It is going to be interesting to see where Santa transfer too, and if he does indeed prove Rod Carey wrong.......He seems like a nice kid and I will root for him where ever he lands, but college football at the qb position is a very competitive position.......

I am also hoping for improvement our qb play, because if there is not, we may be looking at an 0-4 non conference start.....

I think you meant Ryan Leaf...Bledsoe had a decent career..Brady was just better
01-02-2018 02:53 PM
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jjj Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Extension or No extension ? Poll
Yes, Ryan Leaf....and dont forget Todd Marinovich......I also wish Jordan Lynch would have been given a chance at qb by the bears, say in a preseason game.......and Garrett Wolfe given a game or two where he was the feature back getting the bulk of the carries......
01-02-2018 03:07 PM
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HuskieTap22 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Extension or No extension ? Poll
If you follow Frazier he likes to mention NIU has been scheduling up to get in the conversation for the Access Bowl and perhaps more. Money likely played a role as well but none of that matters if you don’t actually win the games. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that once the scheduling began to step up the win totals began to fall.

With the OOC remaining strong for at least the next fours seasons the question to me then is whether NIU’s program is in a place to actually succeed in these games. Based on this thread and others I think many are wondering the same thing. How much has the program actually grown the last few seasons under the current staff. It is one thing to say NIU wants to be in the conversation but if you don’t back it up on the field then it is all talk.
01-02-2018 03:10 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Extension or No extension ? Poll
(01-02-2018 03:10 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  If you follow Frazier he likes to mention NIU has been scheduling up to get in the conversation for the Access Bowl and perhaps more. Money likely played a role as well but none of that matters if you don’t actually win the games. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that once the scheduling began to step up the win totals began to fall.

With the OOC remaining strong for at least the next fours seasons the question to me then is whether NIU’s program is in a place to actually succeed in these games. Based on this thread and others I think many are wondering the same thing. How much has the program actually grown the last few seasons under the current staff. It is one thing to say NIU wants to be in the conversation but if you don’t back it up on the field then it is all talk.

I think STF's big interest is in the purse that each big away game brings. It is also to stimulate the fans' excitement which could turn into more donations. If NIU wins any of the games, great, but I don't think it is a prime reason the games are scheduled.

However, what they need to realize is that scheduling 3 away OOC games means only 5 home games (forget about how many are on weeknights). I believe he previously promised that there would be no more 5-home game seasons. Some fans will get pissed to see only 5 home games, while others in the conference have 6 and 7. This could backfire in season ticket sales and donations.
01-02-2018 03:20 PM
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NIUfrank Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Extension or No extension ? Poll
We all love lynch but I don't think anybody thought he would make an NFL roster as a qb.
01-02-2018 09:18 PM
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VegasHuskie Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Extension or No extension ? Poll
(01-02-2018 02:53 PM)jjprender Wrote:  
(01-02-2018 12:23 PM)jjj Wrote:  Yes, I agree a better way to support my argument is to list the "cant miss" future all pros named Drew Bledsoe, Maurice Clarett, Cade McKnown,
Matt Leinart, and Johnny Football among others........


It is going to be interesting to see where Santa transfer too, and if he does indeed prove Rod Carey wrong.......He seems like a nice kid and I will root for him where ever he lands, but college football at the qb position is a very competitive position.......

I am also hoping for improvement our qb play, because if there is not, we may be looking at an 0-4 non conference start.....

I think you meant Ryan Leaf...Bledsoe had a decent career..Brady was just better

Can't miss future pros? None of these guys you listed were ever considered to be sure things in pro ball, with the exception of Ryan Leaf (who you muffed the punt on).
01-03-2018 12:11 AM
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