I think you are wrong on this one. Don't assume that the parents of everyone we recruit has money to give their kids for extra things like a movie, pizza, a trip to Busch Gardens, to a concert, or what ever. One of my best friends from when I played had seven siblings, and the parents couldn't afford to pay for anything (except for the kids still in the house). My friend had to work a bunch of small jobs in the intramural department just to scrape up money to pay for things not covered by student loans. He had no scholarship. When he did get a very small partial scholarship in his senior season, it took pressure off of him so that he could focus on sports and his classes. I worked off season and all summer to pay for my stuff. Luckily my parents could afford tuition, room and board for me and my sister.

(01-01-2018 10:28 AM)Zorch Wrote:  

(01-01-2018 09:06 AM)wml33t Wrote:  just don't understand how anyone that is a fan of Tribe Athletics, let alone Basketball specifically, would take issue with the College taking this step outside of foolish blind ideological thoughts.

3. I honestly don't think COA is going to make a smidgen of difference in recruiting any athlete who is seriously considering W&M. If the athlete IS seriously considering W&M then that person wants to get a great education and not just play basketball or, worse, use W&M as a one-and-done. In other words, they are not interested in the money; they are interested in the education. Also, of course, they would take the money if it was offered but I don't think COA would be the tie-breaker between someone choosing between W&M and another school. I think the W&M education would be the tie-breaker.

If that makes me both foolish and blind then so be it!

(01-01-2018 10:28 AM)Zorch Wrote:  

(01-01-2018 09:06 AM)wml33t Wrote:  just don't understand how anyone that is a fan of Tribe Athletics, let alone Basketball specifically, would take issue with the College taking this step outside of foolish blind ideological thoughts.

1. COA is just another thinly disguised way for the P5s to distance themselves from everyone else. They can funnel money out of their bottomless coffers to athletes while knowing that schools in smaller conferences cannot keep up. So that is one reason that I am against it.

2. I am even more against the fact that basketball players get it but not soccer players or [fill in name of alternate sport] players. I think that is wrong and that if COA is worth doing then it is worth doing for all athletes. It is even possible that this difference could cause bad feelings or a rift between athletes (who knows what goes through kid's minds? does anyone really know why Whitman or Malinowski left? we can only make guesses and I surmise it had nothing to do with COAs -- but my point is who knows what burrs get under the saddle of these young athletes?).

3. I honestly don't think COA is going to make a smidgen of difference in recruiting any athlete who is seriously considering W&M. If the athlete IS seriously considering W&M then that person wants to get a great education and not just play basketball or, worse, use W&M as a one-and-done. In other words, they are not interested in the money; they are interested in the education. Also, of course, they would take the money if it was offered but I don't think COA would be the tie-breaker between someone choosing between W&M and another school. I think the W&M education would be the tie-breaker.

If that makes me both foolish and blind then so be it!

First off, to be clear I'm trying to separate not liking COA from not liking W&M moving to giving COA for Basketball Players. Two separate things to me. I have mixed feelings on #1, #2 is a no-brainer to me.

As far as your #3... Point no further than our confusion on Quinnipiac beating us out on multiple recruits. Everyone was baffled. Do you think it's pure coincidence that Quinnipiac has also been providing COA since it was instituted?

(01-01-2018 10:28 AM)Zorch Wrote:  

(01-01-2018 09:06 AM)wml33t Wrote:  just don't understand how anyone that is a fan of Tribe Athletics, let alone Basketball specifically, would take issue with the College taking this step outside of foolish blind ideological thoughts.

1. COA is just another thinly disguised way for the P5s to distance themselves from everyone else. They can funnel money out of their bottomless coffers to athletes while knowing that schools in smaller conferences cannot keep up. So that is one reason that I am against it.

2. I am even more against the fact that basketball players get it but not soccer players or [fill in name of alternate sport] players. I think that is wrong and that if COA is worth doing then it is worth doing for all athletes. It is even possible that this difference could cause bad feelings or a rift between athletes (who knows what goes through kid's minds? does anyone really know why Whitman or Malinowski left? we can only make guesses and I surmise it had nothing to do with COAs -- but my point is who knows what burrs get under the saddle of these young athletes?).

3. I honestly don't think COA is going to make a smidgen of difference in recruiting any athlete who is seriously considering W&M. If the athlete IS seriously considering W&M then that person wants to get a great education and not just play basketball or, worse, use W&M as a one-and-done. In other words, they are not interested in the money; they are interested in the education. Also, of course, they would take the money if it was offered but I don't think COA would be the tie-breaker between someone choosing between W&M and another school. I think the W&M education would be the tie-breaker.

If that makes me both foolish and blind then so be it!

Appreciate your heart Zorch! While my feelings on the COA overall are mixed, my support of W&M implementing the COA for Men’s and Women’s BBall isn’t. I am an avid supporter of this and it’s great vision and leadership by AD Huge and the donors as well and thanks to any and all on this board like the Got Ribe’s who may very well had a hand in this big step forward.

I think of this in a similar way to the JL Center for football. To follow the logic of your points Zorch would also in a way say we shouldn’t have built the JL Center for just football until we could fundraise and build similar facilities for all our other Olympic sports as well. Is it “fair” that only the football team has a facility like the JL Center?

What the center has absolutely done is help raise the level of our program and recruiting. It was well deserved after our football program had excelled with not great facilities for a long time. It absolutely is a factor for recruits deciding between us and say, Richmond or whomever. It was a no brainer and I submit that the COA is as well.

Does it cause discord between a football player and say a cross country runner? I don’t know but I haven’t heard of such an issue. I don’t think any of us on here wish the JL Center wasn’t there, in fact we want that for all our sports, but you have to start somewhere and certain sports are the vehicle to get more overall attention and dollars for all sports. It’s a wise investment.

No matter how great a student, how much they love history or a degree in a language they can’t read or the beauty of our campus and our people, if any of us thinks that the COA doesn’t make a difference in recruiting than we are just aren’t thinking like a 18-22 year old or their parents who might like for their kids to have walking around money they can’t afford to give them. As someone who has coached HS b-ball, knows many good student athletes and their AAU & HS coaches, I promise you that no matter how high their GPA, the COA plays a big role in their decision making.

These things make a big difference. We aren’t the only good academic school out there trying to field the best b-ball team we can and build the highest quality program we can for sustained excellence. This is a vitally important and positive step forward. I’m thankful for an AD that wants to give her coaches all the ammo and tools they can have in the recruiting battles. In some ways, ok, many ways, our b-ball coaches have been recruiting with one hand proverbially tied behind their backs for a long time, and have done an amazing job despite that. This move begins to help that or at least means in the future they won’t be recruiting with both hands tied behind their backs. Like it or not this is where the future is headed and headed to stay if not already here. I’d rather be an early adopter or mid level adopter Jan a late adopter or never adopter.

This also is a plus in helping keep our coaches longer or else other schools could come after our assistants or even head coaches and try to lure them away with the benefit of being able to recruit with the COA if we didn’t have it.

I totally understand that all might not agree and I’m ok with that and can agree to have differing viewpoints. I’m just thankful to have someone at the helm taking a proactive step in advancing our 2 excellent b-ball programs. Isn’t that what most of us have been banging the table about for a long time now anyway?

Go Tribe!

I will agree to a degree that COA does make a difference recruiting. If a recruit falls in love with the school and academics offered in Williamsburg - then fantastic. Realistically though, it comes down to a couple of schools each of which has things that the kid loves. It's a tough choice and there is a lot of pressure. No matter the recruits financial background they will welcome an extra stream of income. If you think when deciding between two favorite schools, one with & one without coa, that the $$ wouldn't factor in, you are wrong.

Offering COA stipends tells me that we are committed to our basketball programs. Whether or not it helps with recruiting, especially if most other schools offer this assistance, remains to be seen. William & Mary is serious about Tribe basketball...that's the message and music to my ears.

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Ladies and Gentlemen, Offering the COA in basketball sends a clear message as Tribal mentioned that W&M will be making bb a priority going forward.

I believe that it will make a difference in recruiting as mrjoolius mentioned when other factors make us a finalist in a kid's mind.

Idealistically, I'd love to see an all or nothing approach on the coa, but with limited resources choices have to be made and it would seem that in starting with bb, the AD has made a logical choice to apply this where there is the biggest bang for the buck. She should be applauded.

Whether or not the giving of the coa to bb ends there or expands, it has the greatest potential to raise the level for all sports as we have discussed on multiple occasions.

(01-01-2018 12:31 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Offering COA stipends tells me that we are committed to our basketball programs. Whether or not it helps with recruiting, especially if most other schools offer this assistance, remains to be seen. William & Mary is serious about Tribe basketball...that's the message and music to my ears.

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You and Mr J nailed it. Now, let’s work to upgrade the schedule, the concessions at the Kaplan, the crowds and get something real going on.

(01-01-2018 10:33 AM)billymac Wrote:  Frank, as I understand it (and I haven't seen an official statement), the AD's Office worked up a financial number that would make the plan work for the two basketball squads and then went out to find those dollars. Reportedly, there were three to four donors involved in donating the funds and no student fees or NCAA dollars were involved.

(01-01-2018 12:19 PM)Naptown Tribe Wrote:  I think of this in a similar way to the JL Center for football. To follow the logic of your points Zorch would also in a way say we shouldn’t have built the JL Center for just football until we could fundraise and build similar facilities for all our other Olympic sports as well. Is it “fair” that only the football team has a facility like the JL Center?

While I do not retreat from my aversion to COA in general (my original # 1), the posts above from Billymac and Naptown Tribe do clarify my position on # 2. I was not aware that the COAs are funded by private donations; I thought they were funded by the Athletic Department (and thus ultimately mostly from student fees). I have no problem with private donors footing the bills for COA for specific sports. That is no different from how gymnastics and baseball (among others) do a great job endowing scholarships for their specific sports (or, as Naptown said, it was private donors who funded the Laycock center).

So maybe what we need is someone (Huge, who has started nicely down that road so far) to go out and beat the bushes for other kinds of support, too --- like the money to allow us to play six home games a year in football EVERY year (my biggest bugaboo about something that we could actually be doing but are not).

Okay, count me on board the bandwagon for privately funded COAs for individual sports. Hopefully all the sports will likewise get private funding.

I think the issue has been (1) football, and (2) everything else is equal

Folks on here have put forth the proposition for years that it's (1) football and basketball, and (2) everything else is equal.

The trick has been to pull basketball from "the everything else" category, and put it in the "football" category.

Maybe it's happening.

(01-01-2018 08:28 PM)nj alum Wrote:  I think the issue has been (1) football, and (2) everything else is equal

Folks on here have put forth the proposition for years that it's (1) football and basketball, and (2) everything else is equal.

The trick has been to pull basketball from "the everything else" category, and put it in the "football" category.

Maybe it's happening.

+1.

This COA support for both basketball programs would have been unimaginable a year ago.

Credit goes to Samantha Huge who is already effecting a major, positive turnaround in our athletic department. There will be lots more to come.

(01-01-2018 08:28 PM)nj alum Wrote:  I think the issue has been (1) football, and (2) everything else is equal

Folks on here have put forth the proposition for years that it's (1) football and basketball, and (2) everything else is equal.

The trick has been to pull basketball from "the everything else" category, and put it in the "football" category.

Maybe it's happening.

(01-01-2018 12:31 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Offering COA stipends tells me that we are committed to our basketball programs. Whether or not it helps with recruiting, especially if most other schools offer this assistance, remains to be seen. William & Mary is serious about Tribe basketball...that's the message and music to my ears.

These two posts should end this thread. Nothing more to say.