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Potential XFL return
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #1
Potential XFL return
I know this isn't a college sports topic by any means but it certainly could have an impact on the college game and college players.

Vince McMahon appears to be gearing up to either relaunch the XFL, or perhaps another upstart league with a different name in response to the growing discontent fans are having with the NFL.

Here are my thoughts:

Play a spring schedule--don't take the NFL head on

Focus on cities that are the most discontent with the NFL--
St. Louis
San Diego
Oakland
Throw in some other markets that are unserved and have ready to use stadiums
San Antonio
Orlando
Birmingham
Memphis
Plus a few big markets for good measure
NYC (is you can't get the Meadowlands maybe this team ends up at Rutgers or UConn)
Chicago (stadium might be tricky too)
Dallas (Cotton Bowl)

Learn from the mistakes of 2001. Don't emphasize the WWE or a bad boy culture. Brand yourselves as a return to "old time football" without the fancy stadiums and exorbitant prices. Cater to middle class consumers. Don't make crazy rules that lead to a bunch of injuries.

Find a network willing to take a chance on your product but also take advantage of streaming options. Could these be Turner's opportunity to jump into the football game?

Start with a single entity structure but eventually plan on moving to an owner/operator model similar to MLS.

Thoughts?
12-26-2017 05:57 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Potential XFL return
Allow kids to join straight out of HS

Watch the NFL collectively crap its pants
12-26-2017 06:32 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-26-2017 05:57 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I know this isn't a college sports topic by any means but it certainly could have an impact on the college game and college players.

Vince McMahon appears to be gearing up to either relaunch the XFL, or perhaps another upstart league with a different name in response to the growing discontent fans are having with the NFL.

Here are my thoughts:

Play a spring schedule--don't take the NFL head on

Focus on cities that are the most discontent with the NFL--
St. Louis
San Diego
Oakland
Throw in some other markets that are unserved and have ready to use stadiums
San Antonio
Orlando
Birmingham
Memphis
Plus a few big markets for good measure
NYC (is you can't get the Meadowlands maybe this team ends up at Rutgers or UConn)
Chicago (stadium might be tricky too)
Dallas (Cotton Bowl)

Learn from the mistakes of 2001. Don't emphasize the WWE or a bad boy culture. Brand yourselves as a return to "old time football" without the fancy stadiums and exorbitant prices. Cater to middle class consumers. Don't make crazy rules that lead to a bunch of injuries.

Find a network willing to take a chance on your product but also take advantage of streaming options. Could these be Turner's opportunity to jump into the football game?

Start with a single entity structure but eventually plan on moving to an owner/operator model similar to MLS.

Thoughts?

Unused NFL markets is a good idea. The MLS has the advantage of being the top league of it’s sports in the country. A new XFL will need to overcome a minor league appearance.
12-26-2017 06:34 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-26-2017 06:32 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Allow kids to join straight out of HS

Watch the NFL collectively crap its pants

Not really. Unlike Baseball (occassionally) and Basketball, no straight outta HS kid is going to make it in the NFL. Just not big/strong enough. It would effect schools like Alabama, etc if the XFL paid more than they did, but any player that got good in the XFL will end up in the NFL.
12-26-2017 06:37 PM
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No Bull Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-26-2017 05:57 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I know this isn't a college sports topic by any means but it certainly could have an impact on the college game and college players.

Vince McMahon appears to be gearing up to either relaunch the XFL, or perhaps another upstart league with a different name in response to the growing discontent fans are having with the NFL.

Here are my thoughts:

Play a spring schedule--don't take the NFL head on

Focus on cities that are the most discontent with the NFL--
St. Louis
San Diego
Oakland
Throw in some other markets that are unserved and have ready to use stadiums
San Antonio
Orlando
Birmingham
Memphis
Plus a few big markets for good measure
NYC (is you can't get the Meadowlands maybe this team ends up at Rutgers or UConn)
Chicago (stadium might be tricky too)
Dallas (Cotton Bowl)

Learn from the mistakes of 2001. Don't emphasize the WWE or a bad boy culture. Brand yourselves as a return to "old time football" without the fancy stadiums and exorbitant prices. Cater to middle class consumers. Don't make crazy rules that lead to a bunch of injuries.

Find a network willing to take a chance on your product but also take advantage of streaming options. Could these be Turner's opportunity to jump into the football game?

Start with a single entity structure but eventually plan on moving to an owner/operator model similar to MLS.

Thoughts?
I agree with everything you posted including franchise locations. Maybe throw in Toronto Vancouver and Mexico City.
12-26-2017 06:43 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-26-2017 06:34 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(12-26-2017 05:57 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I know this isn't a college sports topic by any means but it certainly could have an impact on the college game and college players.

Vince McMahon appears to be gearing up to either relaunch the XFL, or perhaps another upstart league with a different name in response to the growing discontent fans are having with the NFL.

Here are my thoughts:

Play a spring schedule--don't take the NFL head on

Focus on cities that are the most discontent with the NFL--
St. Louis
San Diego
Oakland
Throw in some other markets that are unserved and have ready to use stadiums
San Antonio
Orlando
Birmingham
Memphis
Plus a few big markets for good measure
NYC (is you can't get the Meadowlands maybe this team ends up at Rutgers or UConn)
Chicago (stadium might be tricky too)
Dallas (Cotton Bowl)

Learn from the mistakes of 2001. Don't emphasize the WWE or a bad boy culture. Brand yourselves as a return to "old time football" without the fancy stadiums and exorbitant prices. Cater to middle class consumers. Don't make crazy rules that lead to a bunch of injuries.

Find a network willing to take a chance on your product but also take advantage of streaming options. Could these be Turner's opportunity to jump into the football game?

Start with a single entity structure but eventually plan on moving to an owner/operator model similar to MLS.

Thoughts?

Unused NFL markets is a good idea. The MLS has the advantage of being the top league of it’s sports in the country. A new XFL will need to overcome a minor league appearance.

I think they way you avoid the minor league feel is that if your league is properly funded you allow each team a few roster spots for star players that make well above the league average. This attracts some notable names to your league and gives you a modicum of legitamacy.

Another way you stir up local support is giving each team 10-12 territorial roster spots. Let teams grab players from nearby colleges, NFL teams, or play near where they went to high school. Imagine the Orlando XFL team with Tim Tebow at quarterback and a host of ex-players from Florida St, FSU, Miami etc. this gives teams a community feel--a sense of hometown pride.

This league needs to trademark "The way football was supposed to be". Go back to football's roots. Play on sentimentality. Put a decent product on the field that families can afford to go see.
12-26-2017 07:22 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-26-2017 06:43 PM)No Bull Wrote:  
(12-26-2017 05:57 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I know this isn't a college sports topic by any means but it certainly could have an impact on the college game and college players.

Vince McMahon appears to be gearing up to either relaunch the XFL, or perhaps another upstart league with a different name in response to the growing discontent fans are having with the NFL.

Here are my thoughts:

Play a spring schedule--don't take the NFL head on

Focus on cities that are the most discontent with the NFL--
St. Louis
San Diego
Oakland
Throw in some other markets that are unserved and have ready to use stadiums
San Antonio
Orlando
Birmingham
Memphis
Plus a few big markets for good measure
NYC (is you can't get the Meadowlands maybe this team ends up at Rutgers or UConn)
Chicago (stadium might be tricky too)
Dallas (Cotton Bowl)

Learn from the mistakes of 2001. Don't emphasize the WWE or a bad boy culture. Brand yourselves as a return to "old time football" without the fancy stadiums and exorbitant prices. Cater to middle class consumers. Don't make crazy rules that lead to a bunch of injuries.

Find a network willing to take a chance on your product but also take advantage of streaming options. Could these be Turner's opportunity to jump into the football game?

Start with a single entity structure but eventually plan on moving to an owner/operator model similar to MLS.

Thoughts?
I agree with everything you posted including franchise locations. Maybe throw in Toronto Vancouver and Mexico City.

The CFL probably would fight that tooth and nail in order to protect their domestic product.

Other non-NFL markets I'd look at expanding to would be:
Sacramento
Portland
Salt Lake
Omaha
Columbus
Hartford
Raliegh

If you want to move on the NFL's turf and are willing to toss a bit of cash into fixing up an aging stadium:

Washington D.C. (RFK)
Detroit (Pontiac Dome)
Houston (Astro Dome)

Or partner with a local college:
Phoenix (Sun Devil Stadium)
Miami (FAU or FIU Stadium)
12-26-2017 07:30 PM
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Pervis_Griffith Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Potential XFL return
If a new league REALLY wanted to make a dent in the NFL ...

... make all player contracts GUARANTEED.

THAT would get a crap ton of "middle of the road" NFL players to make the jump. Those players have the most to gain from that kind of contract. And it would force the NFL to match that going forward.
12-26-2017 07:34 PM
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otown Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-26-2017 06:37 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(12-26-2017 06:32 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Allow kids to join straight out of HS

Watch the NFL collectively crap its pants

Not really. Unlike Baseball (occassionally) and Basketball, no straight outta HS kid is going to make it in the NFL. Just not big/strong enough. It would effect schools like Alabama, etc if the XFL paid more than they did, but any player that got good in the XFL will end up in the NFL.

I agree, NCAAF will get hurt the most. For the 4/5 star players, most (not all) have their goals set on the NFL, not the degree. They are simply using the schools such as Alabama, OSU, etc as a tool to improve their game to NFL standards. Offer those same kids the opportunity to get all those benefits without the distraction of school work, amateur rules, and a sizable salary (much less than the NFL, but 100-500X more than "cost of attendance" stipends). College football will be destroyed.
12-26-2017 08:18 PM
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Renandpat Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-26-2017 07:30 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(12-26-2017 06:43 PM)No Bull Wrote:  
(12-26-2017 05:57 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I know this isn't a college sports topic by any means but it certainly could have an impact on the college game and college players.

Vince McMahon appears to be gearing up to either relaunch the XFL, or perhaps another upstart league with a different name in response to the growing discontent fans are having with the NFL.

Here are my thoughts:

Play a spring schedule--don't take the NFL head on

Focus on cities that are the most discontent with the NFL--
St. Louis
San Diego
Oakland
Throw in some other markets that are unserved and have ready to use stadiums
San Antonio
Orlando
Birmingham
Memphis
Plus a few big markets for good measure
NYC (is you can't get the Meadowlands maybe this team ends up at Rutgers or UConn)
Chicago (stadium might be tricky too)
Dallas (Cotton Bowl)

Learn from the mistakes of 2001. Don't emphasize the WWE or a bad boy culture. Brand yourselves as a return to "old time football" without the fancy stadiums and exorbitant prices. Cater to middle class consumers. Don't make crazy rules that lead to a bunch of injuries.

Find a network willing to take a chance on your product but also take advantage of streaming options. Could these be Turner's opportunity to jump into the football game?

Start with a single entity structure but eventually plan on moving to an owner/operator model similar to MLS.

Thoughts?
I agree with everything you posted including franchise locations. Maybe throw in Toronto Vancouver and Mexico City.

The CFL probably would fight that tooth and nail in order to protect their domestic product.

Other non-NFL markets I'd look at expanding to would be:
Sacramento
Portland
Salt Lake
Omaha
Columbus
Hartford
Raliegh

If you want to move on the NFL's turf and are willing to toss a bit of cash into fixing up an aging stadium:

Washington D.C. (RFK)
Detroit (Pontiac Dome)
Houston (Astro Dome)


Or partner with a local college:
Phoenix (Sun Devil Stadium)
Miami (FAU or FIU Stadium)

You know the Silverdome was partially detonated weeks ago and the structural steel was ruined. Astrodome is not fit for anything. RFK lost DC United and is tenantless, but there isn't much desire for the city to have a tenant as it just increase their costs.

Sun Devil Stadium is a construction zone until September

Memphis, Birmingham, Orlando are just not fit for a 4th/5th/6th attempt at alt-football. Every successive attempt, the attendance is lower. Case in point, the Stallions averaged 30K, but the Fire and Bolts both drew less than 16K. Memphis Showboats drew 30K, but Maniax drew 30% less. Orlando was basically the same with 25K for both USFL and XFL, but now Orlando City SC is in town.

Vince cashed out approximately $100MM in stock. That's about the same amount which he and GE/NBC spent last time.

$100MM is...~$75M LESS THAN what a single NFL team has to spend on players talent alone. It is about 1.7% of the total NFL salary cap for all 32 teams. Try to pick off any talent with that.
It's also just $48MM more than what the football budget for Alabama is and just 17MM more than what the University of Florida spends on football and "football related expenses"

If there is the attempt to go after recent HS graduates or those not currently enrolled in a NCAA program, Vince is going up atainst Don Yee's Pac Pro Football which apparently is still set for a summer launch (after the class of 2018 graduates) who claims salaries of $50K plus benefits and schooling since they originally wanted to partner with SoCal community colleges as playing sites. In the original XFL, Vince did not even give adequate players health insurance.

This is still a gate driven business and there is not enough gate for this to work at whatever price point.
(This post was last modified: 12-26-2017 09:27 PM by Renandpat.)
12-26-2017 08:50 PM
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CardFan1 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Potential XFL return
Louisville
Birmingham
Columbus
Memphis
San Antonio
Little Rock
Would all be good candidates that fill in gaps between the nearby NFL Markets to keep fan interest strong .
12-26-2017 10:02 PM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Potential XFL return
He could make it work with the right business model. He has no empty seats for his WWE tours. lol I agree that there should not be a competition with the NFL. Stay out of NFL cities, play in the spring, and use the multitudes of players who never get signed by the NFL, and there are plenty. No silly rules. Straight football. Most high school players never get a scholarship to any college. Let the graduates try out.04-cheers
12-26-2017 10:27 PM
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BearcatJerry Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-26-2017 07:30 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(12-26-2017 06:43 PM)No Bull Wrote:  
(12-26-2017 05:57 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I know this isn't a college sports topic by any means but it certainly could have an impact on the college game and college players.

Vince McMahon appears to be gearing up to either relaunch the XFL, or perhaps another upstart league with a different name in response to the growing discontent fans are having with the NFL.

Here are my thoughts:

Play a spring schedule--don't take the NFL head on

Focus on cities that are the most discontent with the NFL--
St. Louis
San Diego
Oakland
Throw in some other markets that are unserved and have ready to use stadiums
San Antonio
Orlando
Birmingham
Memphis
Plus a few big markets for good measure
NYC (is you can't get the Meadowlands maybe this team ends up at Rutgers or UConn)
Chicago (stadium might be tricky too)
Dallas (Cotton Bowl)

Learn from the mistakes of 2001. Don't emphasize the WWE or a bad boy culture. Brand yourselves as a return to "old time football" without the fancy stadiums and exorbitant prices. Cater to middle class consumers. Don't make crazy rules that lead to a bunch of injuries.

Find a network willing to take a chance on your product but also take advantage of streaming options. Could these be Turner's opportunity to jump into the football game?

Start with a single entity structure but eventually plan on moving to an owner/operator model similar to MLS.

Thoughts?
I agree with everything you posted including franchise locations. Maybe throw in Toronto Vancouver and Mexico City.

The CFL probably would fight that tooth and nail in order to protect their domestic product.

Other non-NFL markets I'd look at expanding to would be:
Sacramento
Portland
Salt Lake
Omaha
Columbus
Hartford
Raliegh

If you want to move on the NFL's turf and are willing to toss a bit of cash into fixing up an aging stadium:

Washington D.C. (RFK)
Detroit (Pontiac Dome)
Houston (Astro Dome)

Or partner with a local college:
Phoenix (Sun Devil Stadium)
Miami (FAU or FIU Stadium)

Uh, they tried to blow up the old Silver Dome in Pontiac and failed so they are demo'ing it by hand now. And even if they didn't, the dome had collapsed and the remaining structure was unsafe.

But nice try.
12-26-2017 10:41 PM
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Renandpat Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-26-2017 10:02 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Louisville
Birmingham
Columbus
Memphis
San Antonio
Little Rock
Would all be good candidates that fill in gaps between the nearby NFL Markets to keep fan interest strong .
None of those cities are "good".

Birmingham, Memphis, and Columbus are spring football failures. Every successive attempt brings a smaller gate.

It's funny none of y'all brought up the city with a stadium in Vince's backyard...Hartford. Oh yea, Hartford sucks as an alt-football market.

Little Rock was seen as a possibility for the MLFB in their concepts and financial slideshow. The aftermath of the MLFB takeover also identifies Little Rock as a site since they're trying to keep the same coaches from the 2016 MLFB draft.
12-26-2017 10:43 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: Potential XFL return
So I was unaware the that the Silver Dome was demolished. It wasn't a market I thought was even critical to an upstart football league--just a city that I thought still has a former NFL stadium that was vacant.

I was privy to the fact that RFK lost their MLS tenant. All the more reason to try to find a new one. As for the Astrodome, if it's too far gone both Rice and Houston have facilities. Places like Orlando, San Antonio, San Diego, Oakland, St. Louis, Memphis, Dallas, and Birmingham all have stadiums that are turn key albeit in many cases old. I think the historic stadiums could be part of the allure.

In 2001 the XFL was well financed and had respectable gate attendance. The UFL did not have the same time of media frenzy around it nor the financial backing needed to successfully back a start up league. I'm fairly confident that a new league could duplicate the XFL numbers. A lot of people like to bash the XFL as a very public failure--I don't see it as such. It was an experiment that wasn't given enough time to realize its maximum potential.

I also think a city's soccer attendance is not indicative of what it would draw for football. By in large football fans are not the same people that are drawn to soccer.

3 cities that I identified as critical either just lost or are in the process of losing an NFL team. Fans will come out and support a new team just to spite Goddell. Remember the CFL experiment? Baltimore was a success because the fans their had experienced the loss of the Colts and were desperate to have the sport back in their city
12-26-2017 11:40 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: Potential XFL return
(12-26-2017 10:02 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Louisville
Birmingham
Columbus
Memphis
San Antonio
Little Rock
Would all be good candidates that fill in gaps between the nearby NFL Markets to keep fan interest strong .

Louisville could be a decent market under the right circumstances. I think Little Rock might be too small.

Regarding Columbus you have two stadium options. Crew Stadium which is likely too small to get enou gate attendance to be profitable and then Ohio Stadium which is huge and might be expensive to rent. With a Spring schedule and enough Ohio State alums on the roster my gut says they'd be able to draw fans. Someone pointed out that Spring football failed here once but that was decades ago and the team went winless in its one season so I think that's hardly indicative of the current potential.
12-26-2017 11:47 PM
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Renandpat Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-26-2017 11:40 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  So I was unaware the that the Silver Dome was demolished. It wasn't a market I thought was even critical to an upstart football league--just a city that I thought still has a former NFL stadium that was vacant.

I was privy to the fact that RFK lost their MLS tenant. All the more reason to try to find a new one. As for the Astrodome, if it's too far gone both Rice and Houston have facilities. Places like Orlando, San Antonio, San Diego, Oakland, St. Louis, Memphis, Dallas, and Birmingham all have stadiums that are turn key albeit in many cases old. I think the historic stadiums could be part of the allure.

In 2001 the XFL was well financed and had respectable gate attendance. The UFL did not have the same time of media frenzy around it nor the financial backing needed to successfully back a start up league. [b]I'm fairly confident that a new league could duplicate the XFL numbers. A lot of people like to bash the XFL as a very public failure--I don't see it as such. It was an experiment that wasn't given enough time to realize its maximum potential. [/b]

I also think a city's soccer attendance is not indicative of what it would draw for football. By in large football fans are not the same people that are drawn to soccer.

3 cities that I identified as critical either just lost or are in the process of losing an NFL team. Fans will come out and support a new team just to spite Goddell. Remember the CFL experiment? Baltimore was a success because the fans their had experienced the loss of the Colts and were desperate to have the sport back in their city
Well financed? The WWE and GE each lost between $20-35MM depending on the major story you try to Google.

So in regards to your bolded statement, a "new league" will just have the same losses as the XFL. That's not good at all, G.

Um, in 2001, the XFL expected 40% of their revenue to be based from TV ad dollars. That won't occur in 2018, so the gate is even more important.

Alt-football wants to desperately target Millennials, which is also the same audience which the MLS and the USL attracts en masse. They have that audience big time. Spare pro/semi-pro football, not so much...Ever. Those who watched/attended/loved much of the WFL, USFL, WAFL, CFL, and even the XFL are now likely in their late 40's at best and near 70 or dead. That's not the best demographic as they've seen numerous leagues in their town vanish, like a Italian restaurant/pizza place in a local strip mall start and fail year after year.

Bottom line is that even a Vince McMahon and every alt-football founder who has much, much less cash must price a ticket at $35+ to hope to break even and families don't want to pay that much money for $hitty semi-pro football live in a stadium.
(This post was last modified: 12-27-2017 01:53 AM by Renandpat.)
12-27-2017 12:21 AM
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lew240z Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Potential XFL return
Saint Louis can be removed from the list. The convention center makes more money, and I mean a hell of a lot more money, without football. The convention center lost at least $50,000 each time the Rams played. And that doesn't count the lost revenue from not being able to rent the space during the football season. The convention center made a profit of more than $1,000,000 on a Beyoncé concert. It is expected that the convention center will make that kind of money again with the Taylor Swift concert next year.
12-27-2017 02:31 AM
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RE: Potential XFL return
Spring football will only work in a few markets, ANy city with an MLB franchise is going to be a tough sell for the XFL.
12-27-2017 02:33 AM
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Post: #20
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-27-2017 02:31 AM)lew240z Wrote:  Saint Louis can be removed from the list. The convention center makes more money, and I mean a hell of a lot more money, without football. The convention center lost at least $50,000 each time the Rams played. And that doesn't count the lost revenue from not being able to rent the space during the football season. The convention center made a profit of more than $1,000,000 on a Beyoncé concert. It is expected that the convention center will make that kind of money again with the Taylor Swift concert next year.

Plus, Vince specified grass fields last time so if he keeps constant, domes are out.
12-27-2017 02:46 AM
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