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Tech regulation coming?
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Tech regulation coming?
I45 is right; Apple has never dominated the personal computer market. Hell, Commodore was closer to domination than Apple ever was...

[Image: marketshare.jpg]

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ETA: I think my smart aleck remark may be a violation of this board's AUP. Apologies!

To the OP: Is it really that big of a deal if, say, Facebook is a monopoly? I don't think I worry too much about one social networking platform dominating all others. The barrier to entry for digital entities is near zero. MySpace was pretty dominant at one point.

I'm a bit uncomfortable when a more substantial business like Google starts crowding out my choices but I'm even more uncomfortable with government intervention to reign them in.
(This post was last modified: 01-03-2018 06:30 PM by Brookes Owl.)
01-03-2018 06:15 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Tech regulation coming?
(01-03-2018 06:15 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  I45 is right; Apple has never dominated the personal computer market. Hell, Commodore was closer to domination than Apple ever was...

[Image: marketshare.jpg]

Whippersnappers don't know nuthin. 03-old

ETA: I think my smart aleck remark may be a violation of this board's AUP. Apologies!

To the OP: Is it really that big of a deal if, say, Facebook is a monopoly? I don't think I worry too much about one social networking platform dominating all others. The barrier to entry for digital entities is near zero. MySpace was pretty dominant at one point.

I'm a bit uncomfortable when a more substantial business like Google starts crowding out my choices but I'm even more uncomfortable with government intervention to reign them in.

The monopoly aspect only matters if the monopoly power is used in an anti-competitive manner. No harm to consumer, no foul.

What many on the right are calling for is adding another branch to the 'monopoly analysis' that is roughly equivalent to the basis of the equal time doctrine or the fairness doctrine.

In my opinion you really cannot nail down *who* the relevant 'test group' is for that analysis, where you *can* easily nail down who the competitors are and who the consumers are in a traditional antitrust analysis.

And on top of it, you have big government intervention into what is essentially core First Amendment activities.
01-03-2018 08:56 PM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Tech regulation coming?
(01-03-2018 08:56 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  The monopoly aspect only matters if the monopoly power is used in an anti-competitive manner. No harm to consumer, no foul.

It only matters legally; lack of choice creates high risk of consumer harm (admittedly harm can have a pretty broad definition here). I think the Net Neutrality argument wouldn't be nearly as complicated (and might not even exist) if most consumers had more choices for local ISPs.

And to reinforce my earlier point: I don't want the government to act on this. I simply don't want the government to have the kind of power to regulate business in that way. If anything, I'd much rather government help to lower barriers to entry to create more competition.
(This post was last modified: 01-03-2018 11:26 PM by Brookes Owl.)
01-03-2018 11:19 PM
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Post: #24
RE: Tech regulation coming?
(01-03-2018 11:19 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  And to reinforce my earlier point: I don't want the government to act on this. I simply don't want the government to have the kind of power to regulate business in that way. If anything, I'd much rather government help to lower barriers to entry to create more competition.

That seems to be approach taken in Europe, and that seems to be working.
01-03-2018 11:27 PM
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Post: #25
RE: Tech regulation coming?
(01-03-2018 06:15 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  I45 is right; Apple has never dominated the personal computer market. Hell, Commodore was closer to domination than Apple ever was...

[Image: marketshare.jpg]

Whippersnappers don't know nuthin. 03-old

ETA: I think my smart aleck remark may be a violation of this board's AUP. Apologies!

To the OP: Is it really that big of a deal if, say, Facebook is a monopoly? I don't think I worry too much about one social networking platform dominating all others. The barrier to entry for digital entities is near zero. MySpace was pretty dominant at one point.

I'm a bit uncomfortable when a more substantial business like Google starts crowding out my choices but I'm even more uncomfortable with government intervention to reign them in.

That chart doesn't have the Apple II and Apple IIe, only the Mac, which was never a big player. Apple was the first one truly in the home market, but not for long.
01-04-2018 07:58 AM
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Post: #26
RE: Tech regulation coming?
Facebook as a monopoly becomes a big deal when they start controlling access to media and advertising. It isn't so much the control over posting pictures and messages.

Google has a similar impact on media and advertising.

Apple is more in their music and apps.

Amazon is in access to the marketplace for businesses who use them or compete with them.
01-04-2018 08:02 AM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Tech regulation coming?
(01-04-2018 07:58 AM)bullet Wrote:  That chart doesn't have the Apple II and Apple IIe, only the Mac, which was never a big player. Apple was the first one truly in the home market, but not for long.

From the same article:

[Image: graph1-1.jpg]

[Image: graph2-1.jpg]

[Image: graph3-1.jpg]
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2018 10:25 AM by Brookes Owl.)
01-04-2018 10:16 AM
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Post: #28
RE: Tech regulation coming?
(01-04-2018 08:02 AM)bullet Wrote:  Facebook as a monopoly becomes a big deal when they start controlling access to media and advertising. It isn't so much the control over posting pictures and messages.

Google has a similar impact on media and advertising.

Apple is more in their music and apps.

Amazon is in access to the marketplace for businesses who use them or compete with them.

Consumers believe that when they "like" a business on Facebook that they will be able to keep up with what the business offers, latest sales from stores, new products from manufacturers, new articles from web sites.

That isn't what happens though.

If you have 10,000 followers and you post your new thing, maybe 1,000 to 3,000 of the followers will ever be shown that post on their feed.

Facebook hides the content under the guise that their magic voodoo formula only shows people what they want to see despite the fact that the consumer has already said "I want to see this content" by clicking like.

The business has to pay Facebook to reach all the people that said they wanted to see that content.

Facebook could block content even more aggressively to favor a competitor of the business and the reality is that it would be incredibly hard to detect absent a court order to get into Facebook's system.
01-04-2018 11:10 AM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Tech regulation coming?
I just don't see how that is a significant harm to a consumer. There are myriad ways to follow a business. Relying on a social media platform to get information is a choice. If you feel they are being deceptive, don't use them, or use another method to get your information. Search engines, news feeds, plenty of aggregators out there. This doesn't require a regulatory fix.
01-04-2018 11:38 AM
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Post: #30
RE: Tech regulation coming?
(01-04-2018 11:38 AM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  I just don't see how that is a significant harm to a consumer. There are myriad ways to follow a business. Relying on a social media platform to get information is a choice. If you feel they are being deceptive, don't use them, or use another method to get your information. Search engines, news feeds, plenty of aggregators out there. This doesn't require a regulatory fix.

The people who buy advertising or access for their media content are the "consumer" in this context.
01-05-2018 09:40 AM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Tech regulation coming?
But that's not monopolistic behavior; that's good old fashioned fraud.
01-05-2018 10:29 AM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Tech regulation coming?
I know news articles are not favored in this part of the forum; however, it shows that Tech Industry regulation is still in the minds of a lot of people. Interesting to ponder: Is the regulation meant to thwart a small group of people from seizing power in the world or is it meant to squelch freedom of speech? Probably a little of both.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018...alesforce/

Quote:Silicon Valley billionaire Marc Benioff has compared the current crisis of trust facing the tech giants to the financial crisis of a decade ago, urging regulators to wake up to the threat from Google, Facebook, and the other dominant firms.

The outspoken entrepreneur accused some of the industry's most influential bosses of "abdicating responsibility" and being ignorant to how powerful and sophisticated they had become. Regulators now had "have no choice" but to intervene, he said.

"We are in a new world. A decade ago, you had the banks talking about collaterised debt obligations and credit default swaps, saying they were great for the economy but regulators weren’t paying attention. The government needs to come in and point 'True North'," Mr Benioff said at a panel session at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.
01-24-2018 08:51 AM
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Post: #33
RE: Tech regulation coming?
We are talking two separate tools when we talk Anti-Trust, reactive, versus regulation, proactive.

It's always a bad idea to impose both in my opinion.

However, if you go down either path you have to actually push.

I believe strongly in a liberal reading of our current anti-trust laws to break up a lot companies in a lot of various industries. However, that comes with a caveat, difficult and complex regulation should be avoided when it comes to the tech industry.

Any industry where the real product is innovation regulation is the wrong tool. We should be reactive in our approach to arising issues.

For what it is worth, there is no such thing as a benign monopoly.
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2018 12:12 PM by HeartOfDixie.)
01-24-2018 12:11 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Tech regulation coming?
(01-24-2018 12:11 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  We are talking two separate tools when we talk Anti-Trust, reactive, versus regulation, proactive.

It's always a bad idea to impose both in my opinion.

However, if you go down either path you have to actually push.

I believe strongly in a liberal reading of our current anti-trust laws to break up a lot companies in a lot of various industries. However, that comes with a caveat, difficult and complex regulation should be avoided when it comes to the tech industry.

Any industry where the real product is innovation regulation is the wrong tool. We should be reactive in our approach to arising issues.

For what it is worth, there is no such thing as a benign monopoly.

Facebook owns the #1 an #4 most visited social media sites as July 2017.
Google owns the #1 and #3 most visited websites as July 2017.

Facebook and YouTune each pull in about 1.5 billion unique visitors per month. Twitter is third with 400,000 and the numbers plummet from there.

Just being big doesn't warrant regulating them to death or even require a bust-up but it does require careful monitoring because there is potential for abuse.

Not precisely on point but I would like to see a limited version of the EU's "right to be forgotten". If you make the local news for killing someone driving drunk, the right shouldn't extend to that.

But I suspect there will be a push for such a right as the tech babies get older and more and more of their lives are online. Some by choice, some by choice of a minor, some of it simply by being tagged by someone else.

I also think if some celebrity gets their phone hacked and someone steals their text messages, emails, or dirty photos that they should have a right to force removal of those from search engines and hosting sites.

We've created a quasi-legitimate business of hacking known people's private communications for profit.
01-24-2018 04:41 PM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Tech regulation coming?
IMHO, more evidence that some kind of regulation needs to happen for the internet.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-google-...1518623663

Quote:Starting on Thursday, Google’s Chrome browser will block certain types of online advertisements, a change Google is describing as user friendly. But some in the industry say the ad giant’s move is self-serving, and they contend Google overly influenced the process that selected which ad types to block.

Google, a unit of Alphabet Inc., describes the new policy as the work of a collective, industry-wide effort designed to rid the internet of spammy ads like pop-ups, and make other ads more appealing to users.

Some people involved in that initiative say it wasn’t a true joint effort but a Google-dominated one that, while reducing ads widely considered annoying, also could ultimately help Google’s bottom line.

Google is a behemoth in the digital ad industry. About $3 out of every $10 spent on digital ads goes to Google, which generated over $95 billion in ad sales last year. Some critics of the company’s new policy say advertisers may shift more dollars to Google sites and products, which are less likely to be blocked by the Chrome browser. The browser is used by more than 59% of internet users.

Google’s ad-blocking effort is unfolding as the U.S. and European government officials have raised concern about the growing economic power of tech giants. Margrethe Vestager, the European Union’s competition chief, last year said she would follow the Chrome ad blocker’s effects closely.
02-15-2018 10:41 AM
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Post: #36
RE: Tech regulation coming?
(02-15-2018 10:41 AM)miko33 Wrote:  IMHO, more evidence that some kind of regulation needs to happen for the internet.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-google-...1518623663

Quote:Starting on Thursday, Google’s Chrome browser will block certain types of online advertisements, a change Google is describing as user friendly. But some in the industry say the ad giant’s move is self-serving, and they contend Google overly influenced the process that selected which ad types to block.

Google, a unit of Alphabet Inc., describes the new policy as the work of a collective, industry-wide effort designed to rid the internet of spammy ads like pop-ups, and make other ads more appealing to users.

Some people involved in that initiative say it wasn’t a true joint effort but a Google-dominated one that, while reducing ads widely considered annoying, also could ultimately help Google’s bottom line.

Google is a behemoth in the digital ad industry. About $3 out of every $10 spent on digital ads goes to Google, which generated over $95 billion in ad sales last year. Some critics of the company’s new policy say advertisers may shift more dollars to Google sites and products, which are less likely to be blocked by the Chrome browser. The browser is used by more than 59% of internet users.

Google’s ad-blocking effort is unfolding as the U.S. and European government officials have raised concern about the growing economic power of tech giants. Margrethe Vestager, the European Union’s competition chief, last year said she would follow the Chrome ad blocker’s effects closely.

Sarcastic slow clap from me.

I know from experience that a number of those mobile experience killing pop ups that take over your screen and force you to kill the browser window are being served by Google.

Google is getting better at detecting those ads before serving them but it still happens.
02-15-2018 11:49 AM
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Post: #37
RE: Tech regulation coming?
https://www.thedailybeast.com/from-disru...e?ref=home

From disruption to dystopia-what do the tech giants really want?
02-20-2018 02:51 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Tech regulation coming?
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/s...ch-n847301

Good article on regulation and threats.
02-27-2018 08:21 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Tech regulation coming?
(02-27-2018 08:21 AM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/s...ch-n847301

Good article on regulation and threats.

I've said it too many times in too many ways in many a spin room thread....

all I can say is, "about dayum time...."

social media is the incubator AND cupboard that leads many of the meek to insanity....

the betas don't stand a chance in the long run....the younger they engage, the more vulnerable they are to losing their life w/o any semblance of normalcy....

the internutz is the current version of 666.....
02-27-2018 09:15 AM
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Post: #40
RE: Tech regulation coming?
Opinion piece
References tweet by Sen Klobuchar
Facebook breach: This is a major breach that must be investigated. It’s clear these platforms can’t police themselves. I've called for more transparency & accountability for online political ads. They say “trust us.” Mark Zuckerberg needs to testify before Senate Judiciary.
— Amy Klobuchar (@amyklobuchar) March 17, 2018

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plu...71224211d9
03-20-2018 12:24 PM
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