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Marcus Offline
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Post: #141
RE: AAC expansion candidates?
(07-05-2018 09:34 AM)djtothemoney Wrote:  Blaming Williams and Ono is foolish. If you want to blame anyone, blame ESPN for blowing the old Big East apart when they were about to get paid, and ESPN/FOX giving the Big 12 members more money to NOT expand.

IMO, Williams was a huge issue when it comes to UC's current status.
 
07-06-2018 08:50 AM
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bearcatmark Offline
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RE: AAC expansion candidates?
(07-06-2018 08:50 AM)Marcus Wrote:  
(07-05-2018 09:34 AM)djtothemoney Wrote:  Blaming Williams and Ono is foolish. If you want to blame anyone, blame ESPN for blowing the old Big East apart when they were about to get paid, and ESPN/FOX giving the Big 12 members more money to NOT expand.

IMO, Williams was a huge issue when it comes to UC's current status.

I think Mike Thomas's lack of vision hurt too. The rise in the football program and he didn't really use that as a time to think big.
 
07-06-2018 09:43 AM
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doss2 Offline
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RE: AAC expansion candidates?
In business one is wise to be prepare for the promotion desired instead of thinking once asked I will get prepared.

I think the same applies to this. Will we ever get asked? No telling but if not ready we will be behind those that are ready.

We now have most of the pieces in place. Good Stadium (that can be expanded to 45-50k, near arena, good baseball stadium. I just wish we could turn Burnet Woods into a UC Golf Course.
 
07-06-2018 10:03 AM
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rosewater Offline
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Post: #144
RE: AAC expansion candidates?
(07-06-2018 08:50 AM)Marcus Wrote:  
(07-05-2018 09:34 AM)djtothemoney Wrote:  Blaming Williams and Ono is foolish. If you want to blame anyone, blame ESPN for blowing the old Big East apart when they were about to get paid, and ESPN/FOX giving the Big 12 members more money to NOT expand.

IMO, Williams was a huge issue when it comes to UC's current status.

I am a bit conflicted about what Williams did or did not do to help Uc into a p5 conference. On the record, Williams spoke about strengthening the Big East and keeping the conference together while their are records in the West Virginia v. Big East court case over exit fees that claim behind the scenes, UC was actively trying to leave. On the other hand, it seems that Ono was able to get us in contention at the last minute for the ACC, where a little bit of effort from Williams would have put us over the top. I do not know?
 
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2018 10:29 AM by rosewater.)
07-06-2018 10:28 AM
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Def Berkkat Offline
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Post: #145
RE: AAC expansion candidates?
(07-06-2018 09:43 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(07-06-2018 08:50 AM)Marcus Wrote:  
(07-05-2018 09:34 AM)djtothemoney Wrote:  Blaming Williams and Ono is foolish. If you want to blame anyone, blame ESPN for blowing the old Big East apart when they were about to get paid, and ESPN/FOX giving the Big 12 members more money to NOT expand.

IMO, Williams was a huge issue when it comes to UC's current status.

I think Mike Thomas's lack of vision hurt too. The rise in the football program and he didn't really use that as a time to think big.

He was too busy sending out resumes.
 
07-06-2018 11:58 AM
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OKIcat Offline
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Post: #146
RE: AAC expansion candidates?
(07-06-2018 10:28 AM)rosewater Wrote:  
(07-06-2018 08:50 AM)Marcus Wrote:  
(07-05-2018 09:34 AM)djtothemoney Wrote:  Blaming Williams and Ono is foolish. If you want to blame anyone, blame ESPN for blowing the old Big East apart when they were about to get paid, and ESPN/FOX giving the Big 12 members more money to NOT expand.

IMO, Williams was a huge issue when it comes to UC's current status.

I am a bit conflicted about what Williams did or did not do to help Uc into a p5 conference. On the record, Williams spoke about strengthening the Big East and keeping the conference together while their are records in the West Virginia v. Big East court case over exit fees that claim behind the scenes, UC was actively trying to leave. On the other hand, it seems that Ono was able to get us in contention at the last minute for the ACC, where a little bit of effort from Williams would have put us over the top. I do not know?

Bolded, is a key question. I too believe UC was in the conversation at that time but just way too far behind Louisville in terms of fan engagement, facilities and athletic revenues.

UC's facility profile will be "best ever" by late 2018 with the re-opening of 5th/3rd and I agree that Nippert seating capacity could be expanded to reach the lower to middle tier of P5 stadia size. And yes, realignment will happen again so it behooves UC to continue to upgrade facilities. Winning enough to be ranked consistently in the two major sports would certainly help strengthen the brand too.

And at the risk of derailing this thread, I see no downside to the MLS choosing FCC. It adds to the narrative that Cincinnati isn't your typical dying rust belt town; it suggests a vitality and rebirth of the urban core that Detroit or St. Louis might hope to see. It was reported on FCC's announcement day that only 19 American cities have at least three major league franchises. Increased visibility for this market lifts all boats.
 
07-08-2018 10:42 AM
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Def Berkkat Offline
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Post: #147
RE: AAC expansion candidates?
(07-08-2018 10:42 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(07-06-2018 10:28 AM)rosewater Wrote:  
(07-06-2018 08:50 AM)Marcus Wrote:  
(07-05-2018 09:34 AM)djtothemoney Wrote:  Blaming Williams and Ono is foolish. If you want to blame anyone, blame ESPN for blowing the old Big East apart when they were about to get paid, and ESPN/FOX giving the Big 12 members more money to NOT expand.

IMO, Williams was a huge issue when it comes to UC's current status.

I am a bit conflicted about what Williams did or did not do to help Uc into a p5 conference. On the record, Williams spoke about strengthening the Big East and keeping the conference together while their are records in the West Virginia v. Big East court case over exit fees that claim behind the scenes, UC was actively trying to leave. On the other hand, it seems that Ono was able to get us in contention at the last minute for the ACC, where a little bit of effort from Williams would have put us over the top. I do not know?

Bolded, is a key question. I too believe UC was in the conversation at that time but just way too far behind Louisville in terms of fan engagement, facilities and athletic revenues.

UC's facility profile will be "best ever" by late 2018 with the re-opening of 5th/3rd and I agree that Nippert seating capacity could be expanded to reach the lower to middle tier of P5 stadia size. And yes, realignment will happen again so it behooves UC to continue to upgrade facilities. Winning enough to be ranked consistently in the two major sports would certainly help strengthen the brand too.

And at the risk of derailing this thread, I see no downside to the MLS choosing FCC. It adds to the narrative that Cincinnati isn't your typical dying rust belt town; it suggests a vitality and rebirth of the urban core that Detroit or St. Louis might hope to see. It was reported on FCC's announcement day that only 19 American cities have at least three major league franchises. Increased visibility for this market lifts all boats.

I don't think Williams was the clueless stiff that everyone makes him out to be. Yeah, he focused all his efforts on trying to sustain the BE, but maybe that was his only option.

I'm fairly certain he didn't miss any phone messages from the B12 and ACC. There weren't any.
 
07-08-2018 04:07 PM
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Post: #148
RE: AAC expansion candidates?
(07-06-2018 10:03 AM)doss2 Wrote:  In business one is wise to be prepare for the promotion desired instead of thinking once asked I will get prepared.

I think the same applies to this. Will we ever get asked? No telling but if not ready we will be behind those that are ready.

We now have most of the pieces in place. Good Stadium (that can be expanded to 45-50k, near arena, good baseball stadium. I just wish we could turn Burnet Woods into a UC Golf Course.

In business one should not sit patiently and hope to be asked.

Facilities had nothing to do with Rutgers, Pitt, Syracuse, TCU, and Utah successfully negotiating their way into the cartel.
 
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2018 09:03 PM by Ragpicker.)
07-08-2018 08:55 PM
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djtothemoney Offline
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Post: #149
RE: AAC expansion candidates?
(07-08-2018 08:55 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  
(07-06-2018 10:03 AM)doss2 Wrote:  In business one is wise to be prepare for the promotion desired instead of thinking once asked I will get prepared.

I think the same applies to this. Will we ever get asked? No telling but if not ready we will be behind those that are ready.

We now have most of the pieces in place. Good Stadium (that can be expanded to 45-50k, near arena, good baseball stadium. I just wish we could turn Burnet Woods into a UC Golf Course.

In business one should not sit patiently and hope to be asked.

Facilities had nothing to do with Rutgers, Pitt, Syracuse, TCU, and Utah successfully negotiating their way into the cartel.

No, but their media markets did. Cincinnati is already covered with Ohio State fans. No need for ESPN to push for eyeballs on the TV.
 
07-09-2018 10:05 AM
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Post: #150
RE: AAC expansion candidates?
Somebody once stated that when Williams came in, one of the first things he did was to tell MT to find another job. The disturbing thing about this, if true, was that, not only he failed to have a replacement, it took him several months to put one in place. All the while realignment was in full swing.

We heard the standard "this is done at the presidents' level" refrain, but anyone who didn't think this hurt has his/her head in the sand.

Most disturbing of all, was the guy he hired was an untested rookie.
 
07-09-2018 10:21 AM
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Post: #151
RE: AAC expansion candidates?
(07-06-2018 10:03 AM)doss2 Wrote:  In business one is wise to be prepare for the promotion desired instead of thinking once asked I will get prepared.

I think the same applies to this. Will we ever get asked? No telling but if not ready we will be behind those that are ready.

We now have most of the pieces in place. Good Stadium (that can be expanded to 45-50k, near arena, good baseball stadium. I just wish we could turn Burnet Woods into a UC Golf Course.

sun tzu couldn't have said it any better
 
07-09-2018 11:11 AM
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Post: #152
RE: AAC expansion candidates?
(07-09-2018 10:21 AM)Ring of Black Wrote:  Somebody once stated that when Williams came in, one of the first things he did was to tell MT to find another job. The disturbing thing about this, if true, was that, not only he failed to have a replacement, it took him several months to put one in place. All the while realignment was in full swing.

We heard the standard "this is done at the presidents' level" refrain, but anyone who didn't think this hurt has his/her head in the sand.

Most disturbing of all, was the guy he hired was an untested rookie.

I was going to write a response to you defending Whit Babcock, saying he got a bad rep and he did do good things around here - like make the push for full funding for baseball and olympic sport scholarships - but then I remembered he hired Tuberville without a search committee and I decided to give up hope.

I was so close to forgetting that man even existed in the first place.
 
07-09-2018 04:02 PM
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djtothemoney Offline
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RE: AAC expansion candidates?
(07-09-2018 04:02 PM)crex043 Wrote:  
(07-09-2018 10:21 AM)Ring of Black Wrote:  Somebody once stated that when Williams came in, one of the first things he did was to tell MT to find another job. The disturbing thing about this, if true, was that, not only he failed to have a replacement, it took him several months to put one in place. All the while realignment was in full swing.

We heard the standard "this is done at the presidents' level" refrain, but anyone who didn't think this hurt has his/her head in the sand.

Most disturbing of all, was the guy he hired was an untested rookie.

I was going to write a response to you defending Whit Babcock, saying he got a bad rep and he did do good things around here - like make the push for full funding for baseball and olympic sport scholarships - but then I remembered he hired Tuberville without a search committee and I decided to give up hope.

I was so close to forgetting that man even existed in the first place.

I'll never forget the morning they were reporting we hired Tuberville. I was legitimately shocked. I had a lot of emotions, the first being disappointment, then some cautious excitement. We had been hiring up and comers for so long it was going to be interesting to see what a guy with a pedigree, who looked disinterested at Texas Tech, could do with a program that had been successful over the years.

Obviously as the years went on, it became clear that it wasn't disinterest that caused him troubles at Texas Tech, it was him. I wonder what would have happened if we had hired someone else. Looking back at the hires that year is pretty uninspiring though.

https://athlonsports.com/college-footbal...hires-2013
 
07-10-2018 07:36 AM
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Post: #154
RE: AAC expansion candidates?
(07-10-2018 07:36 AM)djtothemoney Wrote:  
(07-09-2018 04:02 PM)crex043 Wrote:  
(07-09-2018 10:21 AM)Ring of Black Wrote:  Somebody once stated that when Williams came in, one of the first things he did was to tell MT to find another job. The disturbing thing about this, if true, was that, not only he failed to have a replacement, it took him several months to put one in place. All the while realignment was in full swing.

We heard the standard "this is done at the presidents' level" refrain, but anyone who didn't think this hurt has his/her head in the sand.

Most disturbing of all, was the guy he hired was an untested rookie.

I was going to write a response to you defending Whit Babcock, saying he got a bad rep and he did do good things around here - like make the push for full funding for baseball and olympic sport scholarships - but then I remembered he hired Tuberville without a search committee and I decided to give up hope.

I was so close to forgetting that man even existed in the first place.

I'll never forget the morning they were reporting we hired Tuberville. I was legitimately shocked. I had a lot of emotions, the first being disappointment, then some cautious excitement. We had been hiring up and comers for so long it was going to be interesting to see what a guy with a pedigree, who looked disinterested at Texas Tech, could do with a program that had been successful over the years.

Obviously as the years went on, it became clear that it wasn't disinterest that caused him troubles at Texas Tech, it was him. I wonder what would have happened if we had hired someone else. Looking back at the hires that year is pretty uninspiring though.

https://athlonsports.com/college-footbal...hires-2013

The call that should have been made that year was to Pat Narduzzi. He was a finalist when Kelly was hired. Yeah someone is going to cite his 21-17 record at Pitt the past 3 seasons, but he would have been walking into a better situation here in 2013 than he had at Pitt in 2015. He would have been able to recruit well here as he has a lot of credibility with the Ohio HS coaches and would have kept the program chugging along.
 
07-10-2018 09:07 AM
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OKIcat Offline
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Post: #155
RE: AAC expansion candidates?
(07-10-2018 09:07 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(07-10-2018 07:36 AM)djtothemoney Wrote:  
(07-09-2018 04:02 PM)crex043 Wrote:  
(07-09-2018 10:21 AM)Ring of Black Wrote:  Somebody once stated that when Williams came in, one of the first things he did was to tell MT to find another job. The disturbing thing about this, if true, was that, not only he failed to have a replacement, it took him several months to put one in place. All the while realignment was in full swing.

We heard the standard "this is done at the presidents' level" refrain, but anyone who didn't think this hurt has his/her head in the sand.

Most disturbing of all, was the guy he hired was an untested rookie.

I was going to write a response to you defending Whit Babcock, saying he got a bad rep and he did do good things around here - like make the push for full funding for baseball and olympic sport scholarships - but then I remembered he hired Tuberville without a search committee and I decided to give up hope.

I was so close to forgetting that man even existed in the first place.

I'll never forget the morning they were reporting we hired Tuberville. I was legitimately shocked. I had a lot of emotions, the first being disappointment, then some cautious excitement. We had been hiring up and comers for so long it was going to be interesting to see what a guy with a pedigree, who looked disinterested at Texas Tech, could do with a program that had been successful over the years.

Obviously as the years went on, it became clear that it wasn't disinterest that caused him troubles at Texas Tech, it was him. I wonder what would have happened if we had hired someone else. Looking back at the hires that year is pretty uninspiring though.

https://athlonsports.com/college-footbal...hires-2013

The call that should have been made that year was to Pat Narduzzi. He was a finalist when Kelly was hired. Yeah someone is going to cite his 21-17 record at Pitt the past 3 seasons, but he would have been walking into a better situation here in 2013 than he had at Pitt in 2015. He would have been able to recruit well here as he has a lot of credibility with the Ohio HS coaches and would have kept the program chugging along.

Always wondered if there was some bad blood between that athletic department regime and Dantonio's former staff after Mark departed for Michigan State. I would agree Narduzzi would have been well positioned for success here.
 
07-10-2018 03:02 PM
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Def Berkkat Offline
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Post: #156
RE: AAC expansion candidates?
(07-10-2018 03:02 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(07-10-2018 09:07 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(07-10-2018 07:36 AM)djtothemoney Wrote:  
(07-09-2018 04:02 PM)crex043 Wrote:  
(07-09-2018 10:21 AM)Ring of Black Wrote:  Somebody once stated that when Williams came in, one of the first things he did was to tell MT to find another job. The disturbing thing about this, if true, was that, not only he failed to have a replacement, it took him several months to put one in place. All the while realignment was in full swing.

We heard the standard "this is done at the presidents' level" refrain, but anyone who didn't think this hurt has his/her head in the sand.

Most disturbing of all, was the guy he hired was an untested rookie.

I was going to write a response to you defending Whit Babcock, saying he got a bad rep and he did do good things around here - like make the push for full funding for baseball and olympic sport scholarships - but then I remembered he hired Tuberville without a search committee and I decided to give up hope.

I was so close to forgetting that man even existed in the first place.

I'll never forget the morning they were reporting we hired Tuberville. I was legitimately shocked. I had a lot of emotions, the first being disappointment, then some cautious excitement. We had been hiring up and comers for so long it was going to be interesting to see what a guy with a pedigree, who looked disinterested at Texas Tech, could do with a program that had been successful over the years.

Obviously as the years went on, it became clear that it wasn't disinterest that caused him troubles at Texas Tech, it was him. I wonder what would have happened if we had hired someone else. Looking back at the hires that year is pretty uninspiring though.

https://athlonsports.com/college-footbal...hires-2013

The call that should have been made that year was to Pat Narduzzi. He was a finalist when Kelly was hired. Yeah someone is going to cite his 21-17 record at Pitt the past 3 seasons, but he would have been walking into a better situation here in 2013 than he had at Pitt in 2015. He would have been able to recruit well here as he has a lot of credibility with the Ohio HS coaches and would have kept the program chugging along.

Always wondered if there was some bad blood between that athletic department regime and Dantonio's former staff after Mark departed for Michigan State. I would agree Narduzzi would have been well positioned for success here.

Narduzzi just would have been Dantonio 2.0 . Good defense. Stone age offense.

We'd already done that.
 
07-10-2018 03:30 PM
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