(12-25-2017 06:13 PM)BeagleUSM Wrote:  The university must make a commitment towards basketball.

Did you miss the new TVs in RGC and the cutting edge flipper dressing rooms?

So he lost a game to North Florida. Big deal. Wofford beat UNC the other night. Michigan State made the Final 4 and lost to a SWAC team in the same season in 2015. It happens.

Saying Eustachy sucked because he never won a CUSA regular season/tournament title (you really expected him to do that with Calipari in the league for most of his tenure ... really?) is like saying Dan Mullen sucked because he never won an SEC championship or a national championship. Yeah, it's true, but it's not really realistic given the resources of the two programs.

The only school in CUSA 2.0 that might have had fewer resources than USM in basketball was Rice. That's it.

(12-25-2017 08:39 PM)BeagleUSM Wrote:  Eustachy sucked because of fewer resources.

He could win now with these new TVs?

(12-25-2017 01:58 PM)Black Diamond Reb Wrote:  

(12-25-2017 11:10 AM)Eagle9 Wrote:  Eustachy took over a dumpster fire.

Slackjaw created the fire.

Giannini took a blowtorch to the program, and the fan base bought the fuel.

James Green took over after Turk played out, won 22 in his 2nd season, and made the NIT. Over his next 3 seasons, he never finished worst than 3rd in his division. In year 5, he delivered a regular season championship, went back to the NIT (you folks who think the NCAA tournament committee screwed us in 2014 should’ve been around for that one), and was named CUSA Coach of the Year.

But his style was “BOARING” and he was “an Ole Miss guy,” so we couldn’t have that. He was met with no enthusiasm, and as soon as McLellan was gone, “fans” started pushing for Green’s exit. Well, you can’t fire a coach who’s on pace to give you as much success in a sport as you ever had, so what can you do to make him want to quit? Green’s operating/recruiting budget was reduced to nothing and the Coliseum was allowed to fall apart around him. A successful program was intentionally sabotaged to push out a winning coach.

What nobody expected was just how much Green would put up with. He held on for years until the geniuses finally got what they wanted: James Green’s failure. Giannini finally had justification to fire him, but not until the earth of the program’s infrastructure was scorched beyond recognition.

Enter Eustachy to pick through the rubble.

(12-25-2017 08:53 AM)EagNBran Wrote:  

(12-25-2017 02:39 AM)BeagleUSM Wrote:  Eustachy is/was a better coach than Tyndall.

Looking at one year out of his 8 (or was it more) here. You must have missed the losses to Savannah State, scoring 13 points a half (it wasn’t strange for this to happen), and the inability to play a zone.

Tyndall wasn’t perfect and he screwed up obviously. I don’t like him either. But to compare both of them, it’s not even close who did better. And if he hadnt left for UT, he’d probably still be our coach and winning 25+ a year.

And to HP, what’s wrong with people wanting to watch an exciting product? I swear, everyone looks at LE’s one successful year and ignores the others completely.

I’ll address the second part first. In itself, there’s nothing wrong with “wanting an exciting” product. The problem is:

1) The definition of “exciting” is a matter of opinion, so exactly what marching orders do you give the coach when you have zero hope of satisfying everyone? Hell, we brought in Fedora to pump life into the football offense, then promptly replaced him with someone who’d coach the game “the right way.”

2) In sports, successful strategies come and go. Telling your football coach he has to run the wishbone or a run-and-shoot because that’s what the fans want to see would be suicide. You can’t insist your basketball team has to go out and play 1990s Loyola Marymouny style every night for the same reason.

That said, here’s the thing about comparing Tyndall to anyone: Tyndall was cheating his ass off.

Who knows how good Eustachy or Green or Sadler or even Turk could’ve been if forging transcripts and paying recruits was part of their plan.

Cheating didn’t change the style of his basketball.

(12-26-2017 11:48 AM)EagNBran Wrote:  Cheating didn’t change the style of his basketball.

It allowed him to get the kind of players he needed to execute said style regardless of if they were eligible or not, so that statement is debatable.

He got busted at the job that landed him this one, got fired at the one after, and will likely never have another one at the NCAA level, so we’ll probably never know how good a coach he’d be when playing it straight.

That’s the thing about Tyndall that pisses me off the most. He left us with a mess, killed his career, and STILL didn’t get us to the NCAAs. For cripes’ sake, at least make it worth it. I could live with the scandal and results of the past 2 seasons if that was the price to pay for a Sweet Sixteen run. We didn’t even get another trip to MSG out of the deal.

(12-26-2017 12:57 PM)HarborPointe Wrote:  

(12-26-2017 11:48 AM)EagNBran Wrote:  Cheating didn’t change the style of his basketball.

It allowed him to get the kind of players he needed to execute said style regardless of if they were eligible or not, so that statement is debatable.

He got busted at the job that landed him this one, got fired at the one after, and will likely never have another one at the NCAA level, so we’ll probably never know how good a coach he’d be when playing it straight.

That’s the thing about Tyndall that pisses me off the most. He left us with a mess, killed his career, and STILL didn’t get us to the NCAAs. For cripes’ sake, at least make it worth it. I could live with the scandal and results of the past 2 seasons if that was the price to pay for a Sweet Sixteen run. We didn’t even get another trip to MSG out of the deal.

I've stayed out of this simply b/c it's become a dead horsey.....

I completely agree with almost everything you've stated.....

however, the one thing DT brought back was personally taking the reigns getting the fan base involved as opposed to x/o or w/l....that was unique among all previous coaches and was highly effective putting butts in the stands....

this town bit hook, line, and sinker.....as they should have.....none of us had a clue what that POS was doing behind the scenes ('cept a few)

somehow, we need to find a coach and the admin to recognize that aspect coupled with somehow finding add'l funding to help with such (the latter is really a pickle)

I'm to the point where we have to find an energetic coach with the personality that will engage those that are lost in the fun that was the '80s AND plug that energy into the student body.....

unless Doc can accomplish that miracle, we have to find that 'guy', or the program will simply meander with another band-aid approach.....

we simply don't have the depth this year......he gets one more from me to make a difference.....

it's not my job to figure this shite out....it's my job to enjoy the product.....

and right now, it sucks large ones.....

ref: see Pastner

(12-26-2017 11:48 AM)EagNBran Wrote:  Cheating didn’t change the style of his basketball.

Ken Pomeroy keeps up with tempo statistics for CBB. It’s based on the number of possessions each team has per game. Pretty decent indicator of how fast teams are getting up and down the court. Eustachy and Tyndall’s teams were generally the same in this category. Eustachy’s 2012 team was #238 in tempo. Tyndall’s last team was #265. Eustachy had 2 sub-300 teams in tempo but was generally in the mid 200s. One year we were top 200 tempo under him.

It’s not like Tyndall’s teams were the Loyola Marymount teams of the late 80s scoring 100+ a game.

(12-26-2017 11:48 AM)EagNBran Wrote:  Cheating didn’t change the style of his basketball.

No, it enabled it.

(12-26-2017 01:26 PM)RockTheRock Wrote:  

(12-26-2017 11:48 AM)EagNBran Wrote:  Cheating didn’t change the style of his basketball.

No, it enabled it.

and should've been vetted on a larger scale.....

that complaint isn't armchair qb nor hindsight.....that's how you select and run a viable and solvent business.....

while Doc may or may not be the guy, the players he's limited to recruit coupled with our lack of support is a pretty tough one to overcome based on what WWE fat-tub-0-goo left us.....

#cause/effect is a biatch....

(12-26-2017 01:24 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  We need to find a coach and admin and funding.

(12-26-2017 04:12 PM)Black Diamond Reb Wrote:  

(12-26-2017 01:24 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  We need to find a coach and admin and funding.

does that come with a mack grubbs fully equipped outboard motor......if so, that might be a viable option.....

(12-26-2017 01:55 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  should've been vetted on a larger scale.....

Either Munz or Magee said he was told the day Tyndal was hired by someone familiar with Tyndall that Tyndall was “going to cheat a bit.” Tyndall was an assistant at Middle Tennessee under Kermit Davis (who once resigned from a job amid rules violations and landed his own show cause penalty), and Moorehead was placed on probation under his watch. There was plenty to indicate for what we were signing up with him. The administration at the time took the chance he would be the one to take us to heights we’d never before been and it’d be worth it in the end. Color them 0-for-2.

(12-26-2017 07:50 PM)HarborPointe Wrote:  

(12-26-2017 01:55 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  should've been vetted on a larger scale.....

Either Munz or Magee said he was told the day Tyndal was hired by someone familiar with Tyndall that Tyndall was “going to cheat a bit.” Tyndall was an assistant at Middle Tennessee under Kermit Davis (who once resigned from a job amid rules violations and landed his own show cause penalty), and Moorehead was placed on probation under his watch. There was plenty to indicate for what we were signing up with him. The administration at the time took the chance he would be the one to take us to heights we’d never before been and it’d be worth it in the end. Color them 0-for-2.

it's one after the other wtfe when it comes to hoops......what a waste of potential that's simply sitting there for the taking....shame on them for that....

at least it was known across the board with LE (and that was just a simple "I like pu$$y transgression when I drinks too much")

either Doc has to engage the community more so, or we have to find someone that will....

is that too much to ask from Doc??? I don't think so.....

DT hit the solution on the head relative to fan engagement/existing funds.....now it's worse (granted, due to all the arguments we've both made in the past)

that one has to be solved before any other......

he's got until the end of next year..... and that's only due to how his contract is structured.....

(12-26-2017 08:30 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  Doc has to engage the community more.

No, he doesn't.

(12-26-2017 09:03 PM)Black Diamond Reb Wrote:  

(12-26-2017 08:30 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  Doc has to engage the community more.

No, he doesn't.

maybe if he wore a mask and toted a cane????

(12-26-2017 09:05 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  maybe if

(12-26-2017 09:16 PM)Black Diamond Reb Wrote:  

(12-26-2017 09:05 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  maybe if

where's that amex platinum card in the 'Y' when you need a stink(fist) down....