(12-13-2017 01:47 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 12:23 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 05:59 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I'm sorry, man, and spin it any way you want, but, when you have schools that are already 1.4K miles apart, like Providence is to Creighton, there may be "sponges" for easier travel on both sides (for Provy, at least; there's some driving to do for Creighton to Marquette and DePaul), but distance considerations have already been marginalized. Plus, we seem to forget that there is no real denial Gonzaga and the Big East talk about this. So, if they don't drop it, why should other fans?

Fans look at the same maps we all do. This speculation wouldn't be a thing if there weren't tentpoles in Nebraska or Colorado already. It probably doesn't help any that Creighton is so far to the west, games with Gonzaga are closer for the Jays than games for the Jays in Provy, and comparable travel to St. John's, Seton Hall, and Villanova. And, what's crazy...Creighton fans don't seem to mind...still travel to the coasts to represent. Probably why many could stomach the add. It's no less a burden; those fans just go anywhere. Same may be true for Gonzaga, who goes all over the country in the non-conference anyway to compete at a top level. It's kind of already in their blood.

I don't disagree. Don't disagree that St. Louis is still out there looking to relieve DePaul's spot in the basement, and that would help ease the travel for the western front of the conference. SLU was a more travel-friendly candidate when it was overlooked for Creighton then, too. The Big East chose quality. Travel hub or no, again, quality add with Denver lax when others were out there.

Which is easier to fly into, Providence RI or Spokane WA? Also Creighton is the outlier not the median. For Marquette, Butler, Xavier and Depaul it's easier to fly to the north east and for Villanova, Seton Hall, St. John's, Georgetown and Providence it's easier to fly to Omaha than Spokane.

BYU and San Diego were "travel partners" in the low-budget WCC. It wouldn't be a big deal for the Big East if they were to add two programs. You could set up Creighton and Gonzaga as travel partners such that teams visit Creighton and Gonzaga in a single road trip.

For instance, Villanova's Big East 9-game road schedule could look like this:

Road Trip 1
at Georgetown

Road Trip 2
at St. John's
at Seton Hall

Road Trip 3
at Providence
at UConn

Road Trip 4
at Xavier
at Butler

Road Trip 5
at DePaul
at Marquette

OR

at Gonzaga
at Creighton

Spokane has an airport to which visiting teams directly fly. They don't fly to Seattle and then bus to Spokane. 3-hour flight from Omaha to Spokane.

However, the travel for Gonzaga could get tiresome. 3.5-4 hour flights to Omaha, Chicago, Indiana/Ohio. At least TWO road trips to the East Coast with likely 5+ hours of travel on either end. Compared to 2-hour flights to the Bay Area and Utah; 3-hour flights to LA and San Diego.

Most airports don't have direct flights to spokane. So its a lot more of a hassle than you make it out. Also the WCC isn't the BE. The WCC needed BYU, thats not the same situation here. Creighton and Gonzaga as travel partners is silly.

I think the MWC would grab 3 WCC schools. BYU, Gonzaga and Saint Mary's. That would open up spots for Grand Canyon, California Baptist and Seattle to take their place.

No way the WCC would add Grand Canyon and Cal Baptist (are they even D1?) Seattle? Yes, they would be a replacement candidate.

(12-14-2017 10:52 AM)esayem Wrote:  No way the WCC would add Grand Canyon and Cal Baptist (are they even D1?) Seattle? Yes, they would be a replacement candidate.

Seattle is the only school rooting for Gonzaga to leave, both because it would open up a place in the WCC and because Gonzaga is who's blocking them from returning to the WCC right now.

(12-14-2017 10:52 AM)esayem Wrote:  No way the WCC would add Grand Canyon and Cal Baptist (are they even D1?) Seattle? Yes, they would be a replacement candidate.

The California private schools want Grand Canyon. New tv market and recruitment grounds.

The geography issue with Gonzaga/NBE is real, so don't interpret this as dismissing it, but at a minimum the financial aspect of the non-revenue sports travel could probably be worked out. The revenue difference between the WCC and the NBE means that Gonzaga could a severely reduced percentage of the tv money - potentially as little as half - with the remainder distributed to the other schools as a travel reimbursement and still probably come out ahead (and definitely get a stronger schedule). That being said, the geography still presents significant challenges.

(12-14-2017 11:05 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 10:52 AM)esayem Wrote:  No way the WCC would add Grand Canyon and Cal Baptist (are they even D1?) Seattle? Yes, they would be a replacement candidate.

The California private schools want Grand Canyon. New tv market and recruitment grounds.

They have absolutely nothing in common institutionally.

The California privates aren't going to want to try to match dollars with an online for-profit school, GCU's no hot commodity. They'll add Seattle and make a run at Denver before even looking GCU's way.

(12-13-2017 11:34 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:27 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:22 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I think Gonzaga is seriously watching what happens with Wichita in the AAC.

So Gonzaga to the MWC?

I think it's very possible. I think they're going to be watching what happens with St Mary's this year. Also, lets say Gonzaga goes like 26-5(losing to say San Diego St and then 2x in WCC play). Their RPI for the year is only 28.8. What kind of seed do they get? Only like a 6 or 7? Meanwhile, Wichita goes 25-5. Their RPI is 9.5. They get a 2 or 3 seed. Things like that will force Gonzaga to do something.

I just don't see it. Overall, the MWC might be a better top-to-bottom league than the WCC in the sense that I think the bottom of the MWC is better than the bottom of the WCC, but it's not much of a material difference for a school like Gonzaga. Plus, the WCC is an institutionally-aligned conference and actually has arguably the most valuable non-P5 school of them all with BYU (even if they're not showing it on-the-court every season). This isn't like jumping from the WCC to the Pac-12 or Big East - the year-to-year performance of the MWC is very variable and certainly not enough of an upgrade over the WCC to justify leaving (as, once again, Gonzaga is a great institutional fit with the WCC, whereas the MWC arrangement would be a pure unabashed basketball move and, as a result, the basketball reasons would need to be overwhelmingly in favor of such move as opposed to just a little bit of improvement that isn't really consistent in the first place).

Wichita State in the MVC versus the AAC is a totally different animal. The MVC has been impacted by conference realignment in a way that the WCC hasn't (and, in fact, the WCC is arguably the only non-P5 conference that is actually stronger today than it was prior to conference realignment madness since it added a P5-level athletic department in BYU). Basically, Wichita State was looking for *any* way to get out of the MVC. In contrast, I think the only non-P5 invite that Gonzaga would take would be from the Big East (but, as I've noted, I don't think that invite is every coming because of geography).

Would BYU have wanted to go to the WCC if Gonzaga wasn't a part of it?

Will BYU want to stay in the WCC if Gonzaga is no longer a part of it?

It really is a mutually beneficial relationship, even though BYU isn't bringing much more than its name some years. They have other options.

(12-14-2017 01:18 PM)Bogg Wrote:  The California privates aren't going to want to try to match dollars with an online for-profit school, GCU's no hot commodity. They'll add Seattle and make a run at Denver before even looking GCU's way.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/c.../71175576/

Quote:"They'd be a good fit for our league and a good media market for our league to be in, so I think it's only a matter of time," St. Mary's basketball coach Randy Bennett said. "They need to fight through these years and then when they are eligible for the postseason as far as NIT and NCAA, then I think it's going to happen."

There are interests that the WCC would look at GCU as an expansion candidate.

(12-14-2017 02:11 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:34 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:27 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 11:22 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I think Gonzaga is seriously watching what happens with Wichita in the AAC.

So Gonzaga to the MWC?

I think it's very possible. I think they're going to be watching what happens with St Mary's this year. Also, lets say Gonzaga goes like 26-5(losing to say San Diego St and then 2x in WCC play). Their RPI for the year is only 28.8. What kind of seed do they get? Only like a 6 or 7? Meanwhile, Wichita goes 25-5. Their RPI is 9.5. They get a 2 or 3 seed. Things like that will force Gonzaga to do something.

I just don't see it. Overall, the MWC might be a better top-to-bottom league than the WCC in the sense that I think the bottom of the MWC is better than the bottom of the WCC, but it's not much of a material difference for a school like Gonzaga. Plus, the WCC is an institutionally-aligned conference and actually has arguably the most valuable non-P5 school of them all with BYU (even if they're not showing it on-the-court every season). This isn't like jumping from the WCC to the Pac-12 or Big East - the year-to-year performance of the MWC is very variable and certainly not enough of an upgrade over the WCC to justify leaving (as, once again, Gonzaga is a great institutional fit with the WCC, whereas the MWC arrangement would be a pure unabashed basketball move and, as a result, the basketball reasons would need to be overwhelmingly in favor of such move as opposed to just a little bit of improvement that isn't really consistent in the first place).

Wichita State in the MVC versus the AAC is a totally different animal. The MVC has been impacted by conference realignment in a way that the WCC hasn't (and, in fact, the WCC is arguably the only non-P5 conference that is actually stronger today than it was prior to conference realignment madness since it added a P5-level athletic department in BYU). Basically, Wichita State was looking for *any* way to get out of the MVC. In contrast, I think the only non-P5 invite that Gonzaga would take would be from the Big East (but, as I've noted, I don't think that invite is every coming because of geography).

There's also the fact that the American is a good institutional fit for Wichita. If anything, it's an upgrade from a conference of peers (the Valley) to a conference of aspirational peers (i.e., the AAC is schools Wichita WANTS to be like).

For Gonzaga, it's the other way around. Their current conference is a perfect fit institutionally, and is mostly full of schools Gonzaga wants to be like. The MWC is mostly full of schools that Gonzaga is trying to NOT be like (large public schools that are mostly lower ranked than them in undergrad education).

(12-14-2017 07:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 01:18 PM)Bogg Wrote:  The California privates aren't going to want to try to match dollars with an online for-profit school, GCU's no hot commodity. They'll add Seattle and make a run at Denver before even looking GCU's way.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/c.../71175576/

Quote:"They'd be a good fit for our league and a good media market for our league to be in, so I think it's only a matter of time," St. Mary's basketball coach Randy Bennett said. "They need to fight through these years and then when they are eligible for the postseason as far as NIT and NCAA, then I think it's going to happen."

There are interests that the WCC would look at GCU as an expansion candidate.

So one basketball coach thinks they’d be a good fit? How about the school presidents?

(12-15-2017 11:01 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 07:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 01:18 PM)Bogg Wrote:  The California privates aren't going to want to try to match dollars with an online for-profit school, GCU's no hot commodity. They'll add Seattle and make a run at Denver before even looking GCU's way.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/c.../71175576/

Quote:"They'd be a good fit for our league and a good media market for our league to be in, so I think it's only a matter of time," St. Mary's basketball coach Randy Bennett said. "They need to fight through these years and then when they are eligible for the postseason as far as NIT and NCAA, then I think it's going to happen."

There are interests that the WCC would look at GCU as an expansion candidate.

So one basketball coach thinks they’d be a good fit? How about the school presidents?

And we know that a single basketball spouting off always turns out to be what the Presidents are thinking.


From a competition standpoint from HIS viewpoint, for one sport, sure that might help RPI right now. But that doesn't mean the president share his viewpoint.

(12-15-2017 11:21 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(12-15-2017 11:01 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 07:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 01:18 PM)Bogg Wrote:  The California privates aren't going to want to try to match dollars with an online for-profit school, GCU's no hot commodity. They'll add Seattle and make a run at Denver before even looking GCU's way.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/c.../71175576/

Quote:"They'd be a good fit for our league and a good media market for our league to be in, so I think it's only a matter of time," St. Mary's basketball coach Randy Bennett said. "They need to fight through these years and then when they are eligible for the postseason as far as NIT and NCAA, then I think it's going to happen."

There are interests that the WCC would look at GCU as an expansion candidate.

So one basketball coach thinks they’d be a good fit? How about the school presidents?

And we know that a single basketball spouting off always turns out to be what the Presidents are thinking.


From a competition standpoint from HIS viewpoint, for one sport, sure that might help RPI right now. But that doesn't mean the president share his viewpoint.

One basketball coach who gets half his players from Australia, where they may or may not have been paid to play basketball before coming to the USA... yeah, maybe not the best indicator of whether WCC university presidents think that Grand Canyon Education, Inc. would be an institutional fit in the conference.

(12-15-2017 12:07 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-15-2017 11:21 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(12-15-2017 11:01 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 07:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 01:18 PM)Bogg Wrote:  The California privates aren't going to want to try to match dollars with an online for-profit school, GCU's no hot commodity. They'll add Seattle and make a run at Denver before even looking GCU's way.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/c.../71175576/

Quote:"They'd be a good fit for our league and a good media market for our league to be in, so I think it's only a matter of time," St. Mary's basketball coach Randy Bennett said. "They need to fight through these years and then when they are eligible for the postseason as far as NIT and NCAA, then I think it's going to happen."

There are interests that the WCC would look at GCU as an expansion candidate.

So one basketball coach thinks they’d be a good fit? How about the school presidents?

And we know that a single basketball spouting off always turns out to be what the Presidents are thinking.


From a competition standpoint from HIS viewpoint, for one sport, sure that might help RPI right now. But that doesn't mean the president share his viewpoint.

One basketball coach who gets half his players from Australia, where they may or may not have been paid to play basketball before coming to the USA... yeah, maybe not the best indicator of whether WCC university presidents think that Grand Canyon Education, Inc. would be an institutional fit in the conference.

Good point. Bennett is just as likely to be under a NCAA show cause for the next 10 years as being the St. Mary's HC in a few years.

(12-14-2017 07:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 01:18 PM)Bogg Wrote:  The California privates aren't going to want to try to match dollars with an online for-profit school, GCU's no hot commodity. They'll add Seattle and make a run at Denver before even looking GCU's way.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/c.../71175576/

Quote:"They'd be a good fit for our league and a good media market for our league to be in, so I think it's only a matter of time," St. Mary's basketball coach Randy Bennett said. "They need to fight through these years and then when they are eligible for the postseason as far as NIT and NCAA, then I think it's going to happen."

There are interests that the WCC would look at GCU as an expansion candidate.

...and I say, once again, the small California privates aren't going to want to associate themselves with a big online for-profit. Coaches don't make that decision.

They're lucky to have Randy Bennett, when he leaves they're gonna go back to being as irrelevant as Mount St. Mary's. It's all the more reason Gonzaga should be taking advantage of their celebrity now before they go back to being what they were. Mark Few won't be there forever.

Saint Mary’s was 2-27 when Randy Bennett took over.

Randy Bennett turned a 2-win program into a legendary mid-major. Is there a more underrated program builder in the country?

He is a genius in how he built it up but it's entirely on the back of his Australian pipeline, which is why chances are St. Mary's is gonna crash and burn right back to where they were before he got there.