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ODU & the A10
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FearTheLion Offline
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Post: #21
RE: ODU & the A10
(12-11-2017 06:15 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Correlation does not imply causation. The program was still new back then and football attendance around the globe has also fallen back then.

I cannot speak for everyone, but just about everyone I know cares more about playing FBS football and the likes of UNC, VT, etc. than they do about playing for the junior varsity national championship.

Its seems silly to me that now we have big boy football and some fans want to go back, while deep down probably every FCS fan wishes they could play in the big show. Personally, I would probably always support ODU, but if they dropped down in football, it would be a 1 or 2 games a year type thing. I've seen what we are capable of, I have no interest in dogfights with Elon.

+1 from me and nearly every ODU grad in my tailgate.

But who knows...with a few more threads like this, perhaps Harry Minium can read it, take it for a trend, and write another article for the JMU alumni to revel in about their great move to stay down and play small schools in the subdivision. Lol.
12-11-2017 06:58 PM
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Monarchblue Online
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Post: #22
RE: ODU & the A10
(12-11-2017 04:17 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 04:11 PM)mac Wrote:  May not go back but doesn't mean it's the right decision. Be better off with CAA football and A-10 basketball. CUSA is a death sentence of you ask me.

That would be fine if you did not care about football.
I'm beginning to question whether their is really any advantage to being a CUSA football program over FCS. What do we really get out of it? A home game a year against an ACC team that we currently are nowhere near competitive with? A small level of bragging rights because by definition, and by definition only, we play "big boy football"? A chance to eventually move up to the AAC? That is the only one that keeps me wavering at all.

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12-11-2017 07:00 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #23
RE: ODU & the A10
(12-11-2017 07:00 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 04:17 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 04:11 PM)mac Wrote:  May not go back but doesn't mean it's the right decision. Be better off with CAA football and A-10 basketball. CUSA is a death sentence of you ask me.

That would be fine if you did not care about football.
I'm beginning to question whether their is really any advantage to being a CUSA football program over FCS. What do we really get out of it? A home game a year against an ACC team that we currently are nowhere near competitive with? A small level of bragging rights because by definition, and by definition only, we play "big boy football"? A chance to eventually move up to the AAC? That is the only one that keeps me wavering at all.

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The pleasure of watching players like Ray Lawry. Getting to see NFL players in person like Kenneth Dixon, etc. Seeing college foptball at a higher level.

If Inhad the choice on watching Oscar Smith play or Atlantic Shores, I would choose Oscar Smith. Its better football.

Would you rather watch ODU play or Randolph Macon?

Im ok with a move to the AAC but cant say I really care that much about it.
(This post was last modified: 12-11-2017 07:18 PM by Gilesfan.)
12-11-2017 07:16 PM
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ODU BBALL Online
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Post: #24
RE: ODU & the A10
I've said from day one - which for this posting means 10 or 12 years ago when ODU was talking seriously about bringing back football - that I was fine with it as long as it didn't detract from the men's basketball. In my opinion it has directly steered the ship to where we are today (CUSA).

For several years now I have felt that had ODU not gotten football started they would have moved into the A10 around the same time that GMU and VCU did. That would mean that they would be playing in a stronger basketball conference with several of our long time in-state rivals (GMU, Richmond, and VCU). It is a conference that routinely gets multiple NCAA Tournament bids.

Had ODU gotten football but remained in FCS they still could have gotten into the A10 although it may have been a little bit harder to pull it off. Maybe they could have remained in the CAA for football only. I believe that is the setup that Richmond has with them, but could be wrong about it since I don't really follow them so much since we parted ways years ago.

I understand the desire for FBS football among the fans that gravitate more towards football. I doubt that unless finances become a problem somewhere down the road that ODU will make any change to move down to FCS or quit football all together. Because of that my best hope is that ODU can manage to excel for a few seasons at either basketball or football (or best case both) and get an invite to join the AAC which also has proven to be a very solid basketball conference. In addition to that they are a bit more regional than CUSA is which helps with creating fan interest.

Lastly, I wouldn't rag on the FCS players ODU had by making out that the FBS players are/were far superior. ODU had some of their best players come to the university as FCS recruits. I'd take guys like Heinicke, Plisko, their field goal kicker (forgot the guy's name that kicked the 52 yarder against Pitt), Antonio Vaughn, and some of their other receivers, etc. any day.
12-11-2017 07:44 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #25
RE: ODU & the A10
(12-11-2017 07:44 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  I've said from day one - which for this posting means 10 or 12 years ago when ODU was talking seriously about bringing back football - that I was fine with it as long as it didn't detract from the men's basketball. In my opinion it has directly steered the ship to where we are today (CUSA).

For several years now I have felt that had ODU not gotten football started they would have moved into the A10 around the same time that GMU and VCU did. That would mean that they would be playing in a stronger basketball conference with several of our long time in-state rivals (GMU, Richmond, and VCU). It is a conference that routinely gets multiple NCAA Tournament bids.

Had ODU gotten football but remained in FCS they still could have gotten into the A10 although it may have been a little bit harder to pull it off. Maybe they could have remained in the CAA for football only. I believe that is the setup that Richmond has with them, but could be wrong about it since I don't really follow them so much since we parted ways years ago.

I understand the desire for FBS football among the fans that gravitate more towards football. I doubt that unless finances become a problem somewhere down the road that ODU will make any change to move down to FCS or quit football all together. Because of that my best hope is that ODU can manage to excel for a few seasons at either basketball or football (or best case both) and get an invite to join the AAC which also has proven to be a very solid basketball conference. In addition to that they are a bit more regional than CUSA is which helps with creating fan interest.

Lastly, I wouldn't rag on the FCS players ODU had by making out that the FBS players are/were far superior. ODU had some of their best players come to the university as FCS recruits. I'd take guys like Heinicke, Plisko, their field goal kicker (forgot the guy's name that kicked the 52 yarder against Pitt), Antonio Vaughn, and some of their other receivers, etc. any day.

Yeah, there are certainly outliers but the overall caliber of players is much higher now.
12-11-2017 07:58 PM
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ODU BBALL Online
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Post: #26
RE: ODU & the A10
(12-11-2017 07:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 07:44 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  I've said from day one - which for this posting means 10 or 12 years ago when ODU was talking seriously about bringing back football - that I was fine with it as long as it didn't detract from the men's basketball. In my opinion it has directly steered the ship to where we are today (CUSA).

For several years now I have felt that had ODU not gotten football started they would have moved into the A10 around the same time that GMU and VCU did. That would mean that they would be playing in a stronger basketball conference with several of our long time in-state rivals (GMU, Richmond, and VCU). It is a conference that routinely gets multiple NCAA Tournament bids.

Had ODU gotten football but remained in FCS they still could have gotten into the A10 although it may have been a little bit harder to pull it off. Maybe they could have remained in the CAA for football only. I believe that is the setup that Richmond has with them, but could be wrong about it since I don't really follow them so much since we parted ways years ago.

I understand the desire for FBS football among the fans that gravitate more towards football. I doubt that unless finances become a problem somewhere down the road that ODU will make any change to move down to FCS or quit football all together. Because of that my best hope is that ODU can manage to excel for a few seasons at either basketball or football (or best case both) and get an invite to join the AAC which also has proven to be a very solid basketball conference. In addition to that they are a bit more regional than CUSA is which helps with creating fan interest.

Lastly, I wouldn't rag on the FCS players ODU had by making out that the FBS players are/were far superior. ODU had some of their best players come to the university as FCS recruits. I'd take guys like Heinicke, Plisko, their field goal kicker (forgot the guy's name that kicked the 52 yarder against Pitt), Antonio Vaughn, and some of their other receivers, etc. any day.

Yeah, there are certainly outliers but the overall caliber of players is much higher now.

I agree with you that the overall talent is superior, as it should be, but for Pete's sake ... stop with the rugby punting. Plisko put all of the punters that have followed him to shame. No one since has shown the ability to kick those high, long, booming spirals like he could.
12-11-2017 08:05 PM
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Post: #27
RE: ODU & the A10
Im not sure that at the time we moved to CUSA, the A10 and FCS was an option. There was an article a while ago that stated Wood approached the A10 then and they weren't interested, supposedly in part because we had football. If CAA football and A10 everything else was an option I have to believe we would have taken that offer. The fact that the A10 even considered HU implies that perhaps they would consider it now.

For the record, I supported the move to CUSA at the time because 1. It looked like the CAA was headed toward Big South status (it has surprisingly bounced back to respectability) 2. We were promised national exposure and every (football) game on TV 3. A rivalry with ECU that would fill in for VCU/JMU, and 4. $1.2 million per year. None of those things have happened.
12-11-2017 08:36 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #28
RE: ODU & the A10
(12-11-2017 08:05 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 07:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 07:44 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  I've said from day one - which for this posting means 10 or 12 years ago when ODU was talking seriously about bringing back football - that I was fine with it as long as it didn't detract from the men's basketball. In my opinion it has directly steered the ship to where we are today (CUSA).

For several years now I have felt that had ODU not gotten football started they would have moved into the A10 around the same time that GMU and VCU did. That would mean that they would be playing in a stronger basketball conference with several of our long time in-state rivals (GMU, Richmond, and VCU). It is a conference that routinely gets multiple NCAA Tournament bids.

Had ODU gotten football but remained in FCS they still could have gotten into the A10 although it may have been a little bit harder to pull it off. Maybe they could have remained in the CAA for football only. I believe that is the setup that Richmond has with them, but could be wrong about it since I don't really follow them so much since we parted ways years ago.

I understand the desire for FBS football among the fans that gravitate more towards football. I doubt that unless finances become a problem somewhere down the road that ODU will make any change to move down to FCS or quit football all together. Because of that my best hope is that ODU can manage to excel for a few seasons at either basketball or football (or best case both) and get an invite to join the AAC which also has proven to be a very solid basketball conference. In addition to that they are a bit more regional than CUSA is which helps with creating fan interest.

Lastly, I wouldn't rag on the FCS players ODU had by making out that the FBS players are/were far superior. ODU had some of their best players come to the university as FCS recruits. I'd take guys like Heinicke, Plisko, their field goal kicker (forgot the guy's name that kicked the 52 yarder against Pitt), Antonio Vaughn, and some of their other receivers, etc. any day.

Yeah, there are certainly outliers but the overall caliber of players is much higher now.

I agree with you that the overall talent is superior, as it should be, but for Pete's sake ... stop with the rugby punting. Plisko put all of the punters that have followed him to shame. No one since has shown the ability to kick those high, long, booming spirals like he could.

The rugby punt is actually better if done correctly. Eliminates returns.
12-11-2017 08:59 PM
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Monarchblue Online
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Post: #29
RE: ODU & the A10
(12-11-2017 08:36 PM)monarx Wrote:  Im not sure that at the time we moved to CUSA, the A10 and FCS was an option. There was an article a while ago that stated Wood approached the A10 then and they weren't interested, supposedly in part because we had football. If CAA football and A10 everything else was an option I have to believe we would have taken that offer. The fact that the A10 even considered HU implies that perhaps they would consider it now.

For the record, I supported the move to CUSA at the time because 1. It looked like the CAA was headed toward Big South status (it has surprisingly bounced back to respectability) 2. We were promised national exposure and every (football) game on TV 3. A rivalry with ECU that would fill in for VCU/JMU, and 4. $1.2 million per year. None of those things have happened.
They were probably the same kind of not interested that Kevin Keatts was. I honestly have a hard time believing anything of consequence that Wood says at this point.

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12-11-2017 09:14 PM
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FearTheLion Offline
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Post: #30
RE: ODU & the A10
We need to win CUSA once and start a run of tournament bids. Then good feelings about our hoops will return.

Middle has the same amount of cumulative air miles as they have to sometimes go to the coast and then sometimes to the mountain time zone. But I bet they are feeling pretty good about their hoops right now. Why? Cause they just compete to win. Some of my fondest memories of ODU basketball occurred long before we moved down to the CAA. Back then, we just flew around the Sun Belt and won a lot and it created at large bids. That can happen again. And I don't blame the basketball decline on football and I don't blame it on the conference we are in. I blame it on inferior recruiting and stubbornness about working with these HS coaches.
(This post was last modified: 12-11-2017 09:16 PM by FearTheLion.)
12-11-2017 09:15 PM
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Post: #31
RE: ODU & the A10
(12-11-2017 08:59 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 08:05 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 07:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 07:44 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  I've said from day one - which for this posting means 10 or 12 years ago when ODU was talking seriously about bringing back football - that I was fine with it as long as it didn't detract from the men's basketball. In my opinion it has directly steered the ship to where we are today (CUSA).

For several years now I have felt that had ODU not gotten football started they would have moved into the A10 around the same time that GMU and VCU did. That would mean that they would be playing in a stronger basketball conference with several of our long time in-state rivals (GMU, Richmond, and VCU). It is a conference that routinely gets multiple NCAA Tournament bids.

Had ODU gotten football but remained in FCS they still could have gotten into the A10 although it may have been a little bit harder to pull it off. Maybe they could have remained in the CAA for football only. I believe that is the setup that Richmond has with them, but could be wrong about it since I don't really follow them so much since we parted ways years ago.

I understand the desire for FBS football among the fans that gravitate more towards football. I doubt that unless finances become a problem somewhere down the road that ODU will make any change to move down to FCS or quit football all together. Because of that my best hope is that ODU can manage to excel for a few seasons at either basketball or football (or best case both) and get an invite to join the AAC which also has proven to be a very solid basketball conference. In addition to that they are a bit more regional than CUSA is which helps with creating fan interest.

Lastly, I wouldn't rag on the FCS players ODU had by making out that the FBS players are/were far superior. ODU had some of their best players come to the university as FCS recruits. I'd take guys like Heinicke, Plisko, their field goal kicker (forgot the guy's name that kicked the 52 yarder against Pitt), Antonio Vaughn, and some of their other receivers, etc. any day.

Yeah, there are certainly outliers but the overall caliber of players is much higher now.

I agree with you that the overall talent is superior, as it should be, but for Pete's sake ... stop with the rugby punting. Plisko put all of the punters that have followed him to shame. No one since has shown the ability to kick those high, long, booming spirals like he could.

The rugby punt is actually better if done correctly. Eliminates returns.

Then how come most teams don't use it, especially the top teams?
12-11-2017 09:30 PM
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ODU2K1 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: ODU & the A10
(12-11-2017 04:11 PM)mac Wrote:  May not go back but doesn't mean it's the right decision. Be better off with CAA football and A-10 basketball. CUSA is a death sentence of you ask me.

Hard. Pass. Our time in C-USA is a means to an end. How long the journey will last I don’t know but it does not end well without us playing I-A football.
12-11-2017 11:30 PM
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TheDancinMonarch Offline
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Post: #33
RE: ODU & the A10
The most amusing thing about this topic is the number of people who think that C-USA football is "big boy" football. If that were true then what would we call Georgia vs. Oklahoma?
12-11-2017 11:38 PM
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Monarchblue Online
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Post: #34
RE: ODU & the A10
(12-11-2017 09:30 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 08:59 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 08:05 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 07:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 07:44 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  I've said from day one - which for this posting means 10 or 12 years ago when ODU was talking seriously about bringing back football - that I was fine with it as long as it didn't detract from the men's basketball. In my opinion it has directly steered the ship to where we are today (CUSA).

For several years now I have felt that had ODU not gotten football started they would have moved into the A10 around the same time that GMU and VCU did. That would mean that they would be playing in a stronger basketball conference with several of our long time in-state rivals (GMU, Richmond, and VCU). It is a conference that routinely gets multiple NCAA Tournament bids.

Had ODU gotten football but remained in FCS they still could have gotten into the A10 although it may have been a little bit harder to pull it off. Maybe they could have remained in the CAA for football only. I believe that is the setup that Richmond has with them, but could be wrong about it since I don't really follow them so much since we parted ways years ago.

I understand the desire for FBS football among the fans that gravitate more towards football. I doubt that unless finances become a problem somewhere down the road that ODU will make any change to move down to FCS or quit football all together. Because of that my best hope is that ODU can manage to excel for a few seasons at either basketball or football (or best case both) and get an invite to join the AAC which also has proven to be a very solid basketball conference. In addition to that they are a bit more regional than CUSA is which helps with creating fan interest.

Lastly, I wouldn't rag on the FCS players ODU had by making out that the FBS players are/were far superior. ODU had some of their best players come to the university as FCS recruits. I'd take guys like Heinicke, Plisko, their field goal kicker (forgot the guy's name that kicked the 52 yarder against Pitt), Antonio Vaughn, and some of their other receivers, etc. any day.

Yeah, there are certainly outliers but the overall caliber of players is much higher now.

I agree with you that the overall talent is superior, as it should be, but for Pete's sake ... stop with the rugby punting. Plisko put all of the punters that have followed him to shame. No one since has shown the ability to kick those high, long, booming spirals like he could.

The rugby punt is actually better if done correctly. Eliminates returns.

Then how come most teams don't use it, especially the top teams?
Actually, if not most, certainly a lot of good teams use it. I've seen Clemson doing it, and Stanford does. It has become the new trend with the influx of so many Australian punters.

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12-12-2017 12:29 AM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #35
RE: ODU & the A10
(12-11-2017 11:38 PM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  The most amusing thing about this topic is the number of people who think that C-USA football is "big boy" football. If that were true then what would we call Georgia vs. Oklahoma?

A national semifinal game.
12-12-2017 12:29 AM
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TheDancinMonarch Offline
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Post: #36
RE: ODU & the A10
(12-12-2017 12:29 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 11:38 PM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  The most amusing thing about this topic is the number of people who think that C-USA football is "big boy" football. If that were true then what would we call Georgia vs. Oklahoma?

A national semifinal game.

A place that no C-USA team will ever be.
12-12-2017 01:22 AM
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Post: #37
RE: ODU & the A10
(12-12-2017 01:22 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 12:29 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 11:38 PM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  The most amusing thing about this topic is the number of people who think that C-USA football is "big boy" football. If that were true then what would we call Georgia vs. Oklahoma?

A national semifinal game.

A place that no C-USA team will ever be.
Only 42 active FBS schools have won a national championship since the 1860s. It's a pretty elusive club even for the vast majority of P5 schools.

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12-12-2017 06:33 AM
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Post: #38
RE: ODU & the A10
Our school does not fit in the A-10. Charlotte left the league. We have more in common with the C-USA schools. It's not the promised land but a means to get there for ODU.

Patience please...
12-12-2017 07:40 AM
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Post: #39
ODU & the A10
(12-12-2017 07:40 AM)ODUODUODU Wrote:  Our school does not fit in the A-10. Charlotte left the league. We have more in common with the C-USA schools. It's not the promised land but a means to get there for ODU.

Patience please...

Why don't we fit in the A-10? Curious as to why you say we have more in common with all of the Florida and Texas schools instead of VCU, U of R, GWU and Mason?

Is this a football versus basketball thing only?
12-12-2017 08:18 AM
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Post: #40
RE: ODU & the A10
Just curious as to how much money Western Kentucky has made on football over the last 5 years (I'd say this would be about the peak of where our FB program could go)?
How much money has VCU's basketball team made in the last 5 years (intentionally leaving out the F4 run)?
12-12-2017 09:03 AM
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