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MAC Basketball 12/11-12/17
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george14 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: MAC Basketball 12/11-12/17
(12-18-2017 01:59 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  EMUs resume isnt better than UB or BSU.

Ken doesn't understand how your record in college hoops is meaningless unless you play a solid schedule. He thinks because EMU is 8-2 they should be ranked higher yet doesn't realize EMU has the #337 ranked SOS. Your schedule matters.
12-18-2017 02:03 PM
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Ken Barna Offline
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Post: #22
RE: MAC Basketball 12/11-12/17
Dear george14,
If, you schedule so-called good teams and beat them (and that is the most important point) then you deserve whatever rating system will give your team. You consistently say schedule is more important, but leave out the point of being able to beat the better teams. That was my point with Bucknell. The teams that they scheduled that were better then them. they lost. So, they should still have a higher ranking then others with a losing record? You know that makes no sense.
You do make my point by saying that the teams making the dance have winning records.
12-18-2017 02:09 PM
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eich41 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: MAC Basketball 12/11-12/17
It's not difficult, both your record and your SOS matter. The record matters less so, because without SOS there's no context. Theoretically, you could be the tenth best team in the country, but be 0-9 because you played the 9 teams better than you. Likewise you could go 30-0 and be the 317th best team in the country, if you happen to only play the teams ranked 318-347.

It's a little early still for some of the various rankings to really shed much light, but the point remains. I wouldn't put that much stock in real time rpi having EMU at 171 vs. 148 for Bucknell (that is to say that Bucknell is significantly better) but it probably tells me that they're about on par with one another. Saying that only the record matters would be like giving out a test to a group of students, and some of the tests are advanced calculus, while others are addition and subtraction, then stating that whoever got the best score is the smartest kid.
12-18-2017 02:40 PM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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Post: #24
RE: MAC Basketball 12/11-12/17
(12-17-2017 10:46 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear OUVan,
Rankings at this point are very subjective. Both Ball State and Buffalo have some "bad" losses, as well. Let's see how things play out in the next couple of weeks.

Who is Buffalo's Bad Loss?

Cincinnati #10 Kenpom?
SDSU #111 Kenpom?
Bonaventure #67 Kenpom?

Which one of those is a bad loss?

Now you could make the case Buffalo does not have a good win, with wins coming against teams between 100-150 and some wins over weak teams in the 200's. Hopefully UB can put together a solid game this week against Syracuse.

Now, I'd say BSU, based on a lack of bad losses and a couple of good wins, then Buffalo.
12-18-2017 02:44 PM
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UofToledoFans Offline
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Post: #25
RE: MAC Basketball 12/11-12/17
USF is 10-2 in football with one top 100 (of 130) win. They are ranked far behind Ohio State for a reason... Schedule matters. The only time it doesnt is when a team is ranked by a people poll based on prestige and history rather than results. Thats not even in the convo for a debate vs. UB and BSU and EMU.
12-18-2017 03:14 PM
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george14 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: MAC Basketball 12/11-12/17
(12-18-2017 02:09 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear george14,
If, you schedule so-called good teams and beat them (and that is the most important point) then you deserve whatever rating system will give your team. You consistently say schedule is more important, but leave out the point of being able to beat the better teams. That was my point with Bucknell. The teams that they scheduled that were better then them. they lost. So, they should still have a higher ranking then others with a losing record? You know that makes no sense.
You do make my point by saying that the teams making the dance have winning records.

And that is what I said a few posts ago, you are taking what I'm saying completely out of context. I am saying that RPI factors in your SOS and wins, while excluding non-D1 teams. I don't watch Bucknell basketball, but I know they are ranked far higher than EMU and plenty of MAC teams.

You are acting like I am saying Bucknell is a really good team. My point was criticizing your logic because I don't think you follow basketball based on what you are saying. Bucknell may be 4-7, but they have played a tougher schedule than many teams and have a decent RPI. You are only looking at record, which is ridiculous.

My own team CMU is 8-2, but we haven't beaten anyone that great. There are plenty of teams that are 4-7 that would eat our lunch.
12-18-2017 03:26 PM
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Ken Barna Offline
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Post: #27
RE: MAC Basketball 12/11-12/17
Dear george14,
Name the teams that are 4-7 that would as you put it; "Eat our Lunch". Yeah, records are ridiculous. Too bad that that is what counts in the end.
12-18-2017 04:04 PM
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Frozenbaugh Offline
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Post: #28
RE: MAC Basketball 12/11-12/17
Eastern has played and beaten 3 non D-1 teams. We apologize that we aren't giving your team more credit for that.

Eastern is the favorite now as they have an 8-2 record.
12-18-2017 04:12 PM
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george14 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: MAC Basketball 12/11-12/17
(12-18-2017 04:04 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear george14,
Name the teams that are 4-7 that would as you put it; "Eat our Lunch". Yeah, records are ridiculous. Too bad that that is what counts in the end.

No, that is not what counts in the end lol. Hence why you see plenty of teams with losing records win their conference tourney. This is not football dude. The MAC regular season is essentially meaningless because we are a 1 bid league. Sure, you want a high seed and a bye, but a crappy team can get hot and win the tourney. Guess what, the 25-7 team is getting left out.

Wisconsin is 5-7 (4 of their losses to top 25 teams).
Vanderbilt is 3-7 (their SOS is #16).
Illinois State is 5-6 (their SOS is #9).

Like another poster said before, you could theoretically be a very good team with a bad record if every team you lose to is ranked highly. Yes, I see your point that you need to beat good teams to be a good team. Much like how we heard from you that EMU was a good team this year when they were 5-7. Every loss was close. In football, your record means more considering there are 12 games and 130 teams. In basketball there are 350 teams and it's hard to tell who is good and who is not. Look at Stephen F. Austin, they dominated their conference for years because they play in a garbage one. They would go 30-2 each year and not be ranked in the top 25, why? Because their SOS.
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2017 04:19 PM by george14.)
12-18-2017 04:15 PM
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emu steve Online
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Post: #30
RE: MAC Basketball 12/11-12/17
I think EMU is good because I've seen them play 10 games, very familiar with their talent, team chemistry, etc.

There has been public comment by players that the chemistry of this team is much, much better than past years. Made changes to the coaching staff which have been beneficial.

This is the best balanced team Murphy has had based on their abilities of JT4, Minnie, Jackson and Bond. Jackson is the best PG of the Murphy era. This team passes much better than previous EMU teams and the internal passing is very good. JT4 is being helped by teammate who who are giving him the five foot pass for the dunk.

I'm guessing that JT4, Minnie and Jackson make the 1st, 2nd or 3rd team All-MAC. Bond could be HM, probably not higher as he doesn't put up big offensive numbers. JT4 is having an excellent season and a strong candidate for MAC POY. I offer this Bond highlight. https://twitter.com/EMUHoops/status/942225498364567553

Sometimes in these pseudo-academic discussions of strength of schedule, bad losses, etc. etc. one has to watch the games and see if the team looks like a really good MAC team.

If one wants to talk about 'bad losses', EMU did get beat by UNF (No Florida) on a "puncher's chance" game in overtime (they shot lights out behind the arc). It was also the 7th day of an 8 day road trip from Ypsi to Bloomington, IN, to Tampa, FL to Jacksonville, FL. That may be okay in the NBA but is not good for a college team (the team did not return to EMU between any games).

EMU was tied with Indiana around the 13 minute mark in the 2nd half. Game was better than it appeared on the scoreboard. Also, JT4 got his first foul 14 seconds into the game which really hampered him.
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2017 05:29 PM by emu steve.)
12-18-2017 05:13 PM
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Motown Bronco Offline
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Post: #31
RE: MAC Basketball 12/11-12/17
Holy schnikes, how were the Broncos picked the win the MAC? I'm wondering if we'll even finish .500 in conference.
12-18-2017 10:05 PM
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #32
RE: MAC Basketball 12/11-12/17
I know IU isn't very good this year, but Miami beat an IPFW team that just destroyed the Hoosiers in Bloomington.
12-18-2017 10:18 PM
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EagleSam Online
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Post: #33
RE: MAC Basketball 12/11-12/17
Indiana also beat Notre Dame and nearly beat Duke. Strange team.
12-18-2017 10:28 PM
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emu steve Online
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Post: #34
RE: MAC Basketball 12/11-12/17
(12-18-2017 10:28 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  Indiana also beat Notre Dame and nearly beat Duke. Strange team.

Fort Wayne did the ole 'Puncher's Chance' big (from boxing) and beat IU by 20.

FW shot 17 of 30 behind the arc and I always say when commenting about EMU games, any team which shoots say 50% behind the arc and making say 15+ of those shots can beat most any team in the country on that night.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketb...=400986444

And I'll bet the next game FW probably returns to form, whatever that is.
12-19-2017 03:30 AM
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BullBoy Offline
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Post: #35
RE: MAC Basketball 12/11-12/17
Big game for Buffalo tonight at Syracuse. The big question is will Wes Clark get eligible before tip off. If he does that is just another huge addition to an already really good UB Team.
12-19-2017 09:02 AM
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Frozenbaugh Offline
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Post: #36
RE: MAC Basketball 12/11-12/17
(12-18-2017 10:05 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Holy schnikes, how were the Broncos picked the win the MAC? I'm wondering if we'll even finish .500 in conference.

This would really help Ball State out.
12-19-2017 09:45 AM
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eich41 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: MAC Basketball 12/11-12/17
(12-18-2017 10:05 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Holy schnikes, how were the Broncos picked the win the MAC? I'm wondering if we'll even finish .500 in conference.

Interestingly, Idaho was in the Great Alaska Shootout, which CMU won. They didn't play head to head as Idaho lost to CSU Bakersfield (twice this season actually) who CMU beat in the championship game.

I think the West is going to be the West. About 3-4 average teams, 1-2 awful teams, and one team that is above average, but will have an inflated record because of they get two games against the rest of the MAC West (basically the MAC East in football). Who falls into what spots will be interesting. I don't think CMU will finish last as predicted. They are actually a better team than last year despite losing the Texas Two Step and 50+ PPG. They're playing defense, and they have a balanced attack on offense. Still lacking a real threat in the post though. If I had to pick them now I'd say

BSU - Wins it

Average Teams
EMU
CMU
Toledo

Tweener - WMU (They have some talent but have looked pretty bad so far)

Bad
NIU
12-19-2017 10:39 AM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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Post: #38
RE: MAC Basketball 12/11-12/17
(12-19-2017 09:02 AM)BullBoy Wrote:  Big game for Buffalo tonight at Syracuse. The big question is will Wes Clark get eligible before tip off. If he does that is just another huge addition to an already really good UB Team.

The fall semester ended yesterday so I think he is eligible... I'll check on that and pust an update on the Bull Run twitter.
12-19-2017 11:11 AM
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emu steve Online
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Post: #39
RE: MAC Basketball 12/11-12/17
(12-19-2017 11:11 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  
(12-19-2017 09:02 AM)BullBoy Wrote:  Big game for Buffalo tonight at Syracuse. The big question is will Wes Clark get eligible before tip off. If he does that is just another huge addition to an already really good UB Team.

The fall semester ended yesterday so I think he is eligible... I'll check on that and pust an update on the Bull Run twitter.

Please remind me how Wes Clark came to transfer from Missouri. Thanks.
12-19-2017 11:15 AM
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BullBoy Offline
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Post: #40
RE: MAC Basketball 12/11-12/17
(12-19-2017 11:15 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(12-19-2017 11:11 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  
(12-19-2017 09:02 AM)BullBoy Wrote:  Big game for Buffalo tonight at Syracuse. The big question is will Wes Clark get eligible before tip off. If he does that is just another huge addition to an already really good UB Team.

The fall semester ended yesterday so I think he is eligible... I'll check on that and pust an update on the Bull Run twitter.

Please remind me how Wes Clark came to transfer from Missouri. Thanks.

This article does a pretty good job explaining it:

http://buffalonews.com/2017/11/15/bucky-...fer-clark/
12-19-2017 11:24 AM
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