(02-08-2018 10:06 AM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 09:58 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 08:50 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 08:48 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  JC App was 7th in 2015, 6th in 2016 and 2017, and now 8th in 2018 in the SBC. That will be four straight years we have clearly been out recruited.

Want to make your bet that App finishes 7th or lower the next two years?

I hear a beeping sound.

you are clearly missing the point.

Anecdotal evidence doesn't work when looking at trends of 130+ teams.

It's like saying you played russian roulette with a 6 shooter, and didn't get shot twice, therefore it's a safe game to play.

No I get your point, but you're missing mine. Some schools just get more out of the players. App is one of them, Boise is another.

Overall recruiting ranking DO provide a guide of who will be good in the future, yet a handful of programs continue to over perform their historical rankings.

We all get that point, so much so that's it's part of all our arguments. We know there are schools that overachieve because they have great coaching staffs. We are arguing against the "the recruiting rankings don't matter at all" crowd.

I've not seen one post saying recruiting doesn't matter. I've made lot's of posts saying you can't base everything on stars. First and foremost you absolutely must find players that fit your system and culture. You recruit potential and develop it. I keep a database of App's recruits star ratings. Excluding the last two signing classes, an overwhelming majority of our highest rated 3 star signees washed out of the program by their redshirt sophomore year. Conversely, some of the most decorated players in App history we're not highly regarded by the recruiting"experts". Many at the very bottom end of the rating scale. Some like to cite studies and articles, but it's hard to dispute solid data. I know, I know.... App is an exception. Explain it away all you like. Results speak for themselves.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using CSNbbs mobile app

(02-08-2018 12:02 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:01 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 07:58 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:54 AM)07pantheralum Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 05:58 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  There was a time when a lot more cajuns posted on this board.

Meaning more incomprehensible gibberish? Got it...although JCGSU has taken up the slack with his complete rejection of punctuation. He's like the worst beat poet who ever lived.

Lol, so you not taking my bet either?

To recap, one year no posting if based on recent recruiting rankings or 24/7 team talent rankings for the G5 I take the top half of every conference based worthless rankings alone and you take the bottom half. Zero goes to last years records, coaching just worthless rankings. Which ever half has the higher winning % wins pretty simple.

All the rankings naysayers sure got quiet quick. AppManDG forgot how to type all of a sudden lol. He never lets anyone get the last word and poof gone.

Haven't gone anywhere. Simply doing things that are more important than arguing with a broken record. I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy watching App win games with all these lowly regarded signees and let the experts explain how App is the exception to the rule. Again...

Sent from my XT1635-01 using CSNbbs mobile app

so you do admit that app IS the exception to the rule, correct?

No. That's the "experts" opinion.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using CSNbbs mobile app

(02-08-2018 12:28 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:17 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:06 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 10:38 AM)eaglewraith Wrote:  Lunsford is a pretty impressive recruiter himself. Not to mention Vic Cabral who was Lunsford's first hire.

Ga State did a good job as well. I'm curious about why there's so few Georgia players though.

honestly..my guess is that we need to sustain some success for 5+ years to change the perception of Georgia kids about Georgia State football. I believe Florida, Alabama, and Carolina kids are easier to recruit since they're looking for reasons to get out of town and visit places like Atlanta. They look happy enough after touring the shiny new stadium and the locker room.

I'm just glad that Georgia Southern and soon Georgia State will be able to siphon off the talent that can be found in Georgia. Georgia is a lot like Texas and Florida in that it has an overabundance of talent that can support multiple FBS teams. For decades, there have only been 2 FBS teams in the state and several other schools in country recruit Georgia hard because they know there is high talent with low competition in the area. If Georgia Southern and Georgia State can close that pipeline and get the kids that would otherwise go to a P5 across the country to stay in state, we would be golden.

Georgia, Georgia Tech, Georgia State, and Georgia Southern should all push the narrative of staying and playing for your state and for your home to lock in all the in state talent we have. It would only help all four of us moving forward.

Georgia getting the #1 recruiting class really helps both of your schools. Neither of you are competing in any with Georgia and that allows some higher rated (by SBC standards) recruits to land at your schools. The same is true when Alabama and Auburn are good. We don't have to compete with them for players like we do when they're bad.

As bad as we dont want to admit it, that's the trend in Arkansas too. Thats why we were so sad to see Bielema go. Mediocrity was perfect. They werent good and we didnt have to fight so hard for in-state talent.

(02-08-2018 12:39 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:02 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:01 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 07:58 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:54 AM)07pantheralum Wrote:  Meaning more incomprehensible gibberish? Got it...although JCGSU has taken up the slack with his complete rejection of punctuation. He's like the worst beat poet who ever lived.

Lol, so you not taking my bet either?

To recap, one year no posting if based on recent recruiting rankings or 24/7 team talent rankings for the G5 I take the top half of every conference based worthless rankings alone and you take the bottom half. Zero goes to last years records, coaching just worthless rankings. Which ever half has the higher winning % wins pretty simple.

All the rankings naysayers sure got quiet quick. AppManDG forgot how to type all of a sudden lol. He never lets anyone get the last word and poof gone.

Haven't gone anywhere. Simply doing things that are more important than arguing with a broken record. I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy watching App win games with all these lowly regarded signees and let the experts explain how App is the exception to the rule. Again...

Sent from my XT1635-01 using CSNbbs mobile app

so you do admit that app IS the exception to the rule, correct?

No. That's the "experts" opinion.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using CSNbbs mobile app

so when you look at facts comparing recruiting rankings and school rankings, and see that app greatly over performs to their level of talent compared to the rest of college football, you consider that an opinion?

Interesting.

I take it you aren't in a field that involves analytics of any sort.

You should probably have a 1-2 year lag when comparing recruiting classes and results. But otherwise great analysis. +/- 10-15% error rate isn't surprising.

(02-08-2018 12:17 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:06 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 10:38 AM)eaglewraith Wrote:  Lunsford is a pretty impressive recruiter himself. Not to mention Vic Cabral who was Lunsford's first hire.

Ga State did a good job as well. I'm curious about why there's so few Georgia players though.

honestly..my guess is that we need to sustain some success for 5+ years to change the perception of Georgia kids about Georgia State football. I believe Florida, Alabama, and Carolina kids are easier to recruit since they're looking for reasons to get out of town and visit places like Atlanta. They look happy enough after touring the shiny new stadium and the locker room.

I'm just glad that Georgia Southern and soon Georgia State will be able to siphon off the talent that can be found in Georgia. Georgia is a lot like Texas and Florida in that it has an overabundance of talent that can support multiple FBS teams. For decades, there have only been 2 FBS teams in the state and several other schools in country recruit Georgia hard because they know there is high talent with low competition in the area. If Georgia Southern and Georgia State can close that pipeline and get the kids that would otherwise go to a P5 across the country to stay in state, we would be golden.

Georgia, Georgia Tech, Georgia State, and Georgia Southern should all push the narrative of staying and playing for your state and for your home to lock in all the in state talent we have. It would only help all four of us moving forward.

Troy usually gets some very decent players from GA. We thank y'all very much.

(02-08-2018 01:16 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  You should probably have a 1-2 year lag when comparing recruiting classes and results. But otherwise great analysis. +/- 10-15% error rate isn't surprising.

yeah, I would have liked to have started recruiting in 2012, but with app and gs still technically being FCS, it would have made the recruiting rankings a little tougher to determine. For the MWC, I could probably compare recruiting years 2012-2016 with season rankings 2013-2017. I don't think it would change it too much though.

but thanks!

(02-08-2018 01:19 PM)trojanbrutha Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:17 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:06 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 10:38 AM)eaglewraith Wrote:  Lunsford is a pretty impressive recruiter himself. Not to mention Vic Cabral who was Lunsford's first hire.

Ga State did a good job as well. I'm curious about why there's so few Georgia players though.

honestly..my guess is that we need to sustain some success for 5+ years to change the perception of Georgia kids about Georgia State football. I believe Florida, Alabama, and Carolina kids are easier to recruit since they're looking for reasons to get out of town and visit places like Atlanta. They look happy enough after touring the shiny new stadium and the locker room.

I'm just glad that Georgia Southern and soon Georgia State will be able to siphon off the talent that can be found in Georgia. Georgia is a lot like Texas and Florida in that it has an overabundance of talent that can support multiple FBS teams. For decades, there have only been 2 FBS teams in the state and several other schools in country recruit Georgia hard because they know there is high talent with low competition in the area. If Georgia Southern and Georgia State can close that pipeline and get the kids that would otherwise go to a P5 across the country to stay in state, we would be golden.

Georgia, Georgia Tech, Georgia State, and Georgia Southern should all push the narrative of staying and playing for your state and for your home to lock in all the in state talent we have. It would only help all four of us moving forward.

Troy usually gets some very decent players from GA. We thank y'all very much.

Big State

(02-08-2018 02:08 PM)panama Wrote:  Big State

I love your sig picture by the way. I wanted to go to the Troy GSU last season, but couldn't make it. Looked great on TV.

(02-08-2018 12:36 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 10:06 AM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 09:58 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 08:50 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 08:48 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  JC App was 7th in 2015, 6th in 2016 and 2017, and now 8th in 2018 in the SBC. That will be four straight years we have clearly been out recruited.

Want to make your bet that App finishes 7th or lower the next two years?

I hear a beeping sound.

you are clearly missing the point.

Anecdotal evidence doesn't work when looking at trends of 130+ teams.

It's like saying you played russian roulette with a 6 shooter, and didn't get shot twice, therefore it's a safe game to play.

No I get your point, but you're missing mine. Some schools just get more out of the players. App is one of them, Boise is another.

Overall recruiting ranking DO provide a guide of who will be good in the future, yet a handful of programs continue to over perform their historical rankings.

We all get that point, so much so that's it's part of all our arguments. We know there are schools that overachieve because they have great coaching staffs. We are arguing against the "the recruiting rankings don't matter at all" crowd.

I've not seen one post saying recruiting doesn't matter. I've made lot's of posts saying you can't base everything on stars. First and foremost you absolutely must find players that fit your system and culture. You recruit potential and develop it. I keep a database of App's recruits star ratings. Excluding the last two signing classes, an overwhelming majority of our highest rated 3 star signees washed out of the program by their redshirt sophomore year. Conversely, some of the most decorated players in App history we're not highly regarded by the recruiting"experts". Many at the very bottom end of the rating scale. Some like to cite studies and articles, but it's hard to dispute solid data. I know, I know.... App is an exception. Explain it away all you like. Results speak for themselves.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using CSNbbs mobile app

I'll give you this:
Your refusal to accept facts that contradict your predisposed way of thinking is consistent with your stance on evolution.

(02-08-2018 12:43 PM)ApexRedWolf Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:28 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:17 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:06 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 10:38 AM)eaglewraith Wrote:  Lunsford is a pretty impressive recruiter himself. Not to mention Vic Cabral who was Lunsford's first hire.

Ga State did a good job as well. I'm curious about why there's so few Georgia players though.

honestly..my guess is that we need to sustain some success for 5+ years to change the perception of Georgia kids about Georgia State football. I believe Florida, Alabama, and Carolina kids are easier to recruit since they're looking for reasons to get out of town and visit places like Atlanta. They look happy enough after touring the shiny new stadium and the locker room.

I'm just glad that Georgia Southern and soon Georgia State will be able to siphon off the talent that can be found in Georgia. Georgia is a lot like Texas and Florida in that it has an overabundance of talent that can support multiple FBS teams. For decades, there have only been 2 FBS teams in the state and several other schools in country recruit Georgia hard because they know there is high talent with low competition in the area. If Georgia Southern and Georgia State can close that pipeline and get the kids that would otherwise go to a P5 across the country to stay in state, we would be golden.

Georgia, Georgia Tech, Georgia State, and Georgia Southern should all push the narrative of staying and playing for your state and for your home to lock in all the in state talent we have. It would only help all four of us moving forward.

Georgia getting the #1 recruiting class really helps both of your schools. Neither of you are competing in any with Georgia and that allows some higher rated (by SBC standards) recruits to land at your schools. The same is true when Alabama and Auburn are good. We don't have to compete with them for players like we do when they're bad.

As bad as we dont want to admit it, that's the trend in Arkansas too. Thats why we were so sad to see Bielema go. Mediocrity was perfect. They werent good and we didnt have to fight so hard for in-state talent.

I think you have that backwards. When they are good they tend to look out of state more. I have loved the blow ups over there recently though.

(02-08-2018 12:48 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:39 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:02 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:01 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 07:58 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  Lol, so you not taking my bet either?

To recap, one year no posting if based on recent recruiting rankings or 24/7 team talent rankings for the G5 I take the top half of every conference based worthless rankings alone and you take the bottom half. Zero goes to last years records, coaching just worthless rankings. Which ever half has the higher winning % wins pretty simple.

All the rankings naysayers sure got quiet quick. AppManDG forgot how to type all of a sudden lol. He never lets anyone get the last word and poof gone.

Haven't gone anywhere. Simply doing things that are more important than arguing with a broken record. I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy watching App win games with all these lowly regarded signees and let the experts explain how App is the exception to the rule. Again...

Sent from my XT1635-01 using CSNbbs mobile app

so you do admit that app IS the exception to the rule, correct?

No. That's the "experts" opinion.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using CSNbbs mobile app

so when you look at facts comparing recruiting rankings and school rankings, and see that app greatly over performs to their level of talent compared to the rest of college football, you consider that an opinion?

Interesting.

I take it you aren't in a field that involves analytics of any sort.

I take it you're not in a field that involves comprehension.

The opinion I refer to is that of the recruiting "experts" who evaluate these players. A rating is nothing more than one person's opinion. The difference is where some place an unwavering belief in the accuracy of the rating system, I see it as inherently flawed. I am amused you guys are dead set on attributing App's success to a superior & stable coaching staff, simply because in your mind there is no way these low rated players could perform to that high of a standard. I have argued ad nauseam App looks for players who best fit our scheme and embrace the Boone environment, regardless of the rating. There comes a point when you have to step back and question this rating system. Five of App's top ten 3 Star signees (including the top three) didn't make it to their Soph year. Another left after the Jr year. One third of the thirty three 3 star signees left the program early. Of those who stayed and graduated, two WR's had a combined stat line of 16 receptions. 1 TD, one RB was a career back up to 2 star Marcus Cox, another had 48 carries for 197 yards. Two defensive players became starters their Sr seasons. Meanwhile none of App's All Sunbelt honorees were rated three stars. Including a OPY who failed to be given the minimum,700 2 star rating.

(02-08-2018 09:18 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:48 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:39 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:02 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:01 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  Haven't gone anywhere. Simply doing things that are more important than arguing with a broken record. I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy watching App win games with all these lowly regarded signees and let the experts explain how App is the exception to the rule. Again...

Sent from my XT1635-01 using CSNbbs mobile app

so you do admit that app IS the exception to the rule, correct?

No. That's the "experts" opinion.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using CSNbbs mobile app

so when you look at facts comparing recruiting rankings and school rankings, and see that app greatly over performs to their level of talent compared to the rest of college football, you consider that an opinion?

Interesting.

I take it you aren't in a field that involves analytics of any sort.

I take it you're not in a field that involves comprehension.

The opinion I refer to is that of the recruiting "experts" who evaluate these players. A rating is nothing more than one person's opinion. The difference is where some place an unwavering belief in the accuracy of the rating system, I see it as inherently flawed. I am amused you guys are dead set on attributing App's success to a superior & stable coaching staff, simply because in your mind there is no way these low rated players could perform to that high of a standard. I have argued ad nauseam App looks for players who best fit our scheme and embrace the Boone environment, regardless of the rating. There comes a point when you have to step back and question this rating system. Five of App's top ten 3 Star signees (including the top three) didn't make it to their Soph year. Another left after the Jr year. One third of the thirty three 3 star signees left the program early. Of those who stayed and graduated, two WR's had a combined stat line of 16 receptions. 1 TD, one RB was a career back up to 2 star Marcus Cox, another had 48 carries for 197 yards. Two defensive players became starters their Sr seasons. Meanwhile none of App's All Sunbelt honorees were rated three stars. Including a OPY who failed to be given the minimum,700 2 star rating.

A) The ratings are given by people that use a set of criteria to evaluate players as their profession. If they were consistently wrong, they wouldn't have jobs in the industry for very long.
B) Those "experts" and their "opinions" are what form the ratings that so strongly correlate to on the field success.
C) I doubt you believe that those low-rated players that succeeded at App St would have done as well at a different school under a different coach, so why is it so difficult to just credit Satterfield and his staff for finding players that didn't stand out significantly in high school and developing them beyond what their abilities appeared to be?

(02-08-2018 12:17 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:06 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 10:38 AM)eaglewraith Wrote:  Lunsford is a pretty impressive recruiter himself. Not to mention Vic Cabral who was Lunsford's first hire.

Ga State did a good job as well. I'm curious about why there's so few Georgia players though.

honestly..my guess is that we need to sustain some success for 5+ years to change the perception of Georgia kids about Georgia State football. I believe Florida, Alabama, and Carolina kids are easier to recruit since they're looking for reasons to get out of town and visit places like Atlanta. They look happy enough after touring the shiny new stadium and the locker room.

I'm just glad that Georgia Southern and soon Georgia State will be able to siphon off the talent that can be found in Georgia. Georgia is a lot like Texas and Florida in that it has an overabundance of talent that can support multiple FBS teams. For decades, there have only been 2 FBS teams in the state and several other schools in country recruit Georgia hard because they know there is high talent with low competition in the area. If Georgia Southern and Georgia State can close that pipeline and get the kids that would otherwise go to a P5 across the country to stay in state, we would be golden.

Georgia, Georgia Tech, Georgia State, and Georgia Southern should all push the narrative of staying and playing for your state and for your home to lock in all the in state talent we have. It would only help all four of us moving forward.

Georgia State and Georgia Southern have a unique opportunity compared to other Universities. The recruits in this state continues to increase as well as produce at a higher level.

Should be interesting to see where these 2 programs are in the next 5-10 yrs. Unfortunately I have seen failure of a state University keeping its recruits in state. New Jersey had that opportunity for the past 40+ years with Rutgers and continued to fail. 50-20 yrs ago NJ was a top 10 state easily in producing football recruits with population higher than states like Georgia and Florida. Unfortunately the University never marketed correctly and were plagued by underwhelming HC's over the years. The state now continues its decline from Football recruits as townships who once had 50 kids play on a youth team now barely have 11 kids. African American population also continues to decrease while being replaced with immigration from Asian, Middle East, Latin American, and Eastern European countries!

(02-08-2018 10:14 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 09:18 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:48 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:39 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:02 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  so you do admit that app IS the exception to the rule, correct?

No. That's the "experts" opinion.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using CSNbbs mobile app

so when you look at facts comparing recruiting rankings and school rankings, and see that app greatly over performs to their level of talent compared to the rest of college football, you consider that an opinion?

Interesting.

I take it you aren't in a field that involves analytics of any sort.

I take it you're not in a field that involves comprehension.

The opinion I refer to is that of the recruiting "experts" who evaluate these players. A rating is nothing more than one person's opinion. The difference is where some place an unwavering belief in the accuracy of the rating system, I see it as inherently flawed. I am amused you guys are dead set on attributing App's success to a superior & stable coaching staff, simply because in your mind there is no way these low rated players could perform to that high of a standard. I have argued ad nauseam App looks for players who best fit our scheme and embrace the Boone environment, regardless of the rating. There comes a point when you have to step back and question this rating system. Five of App's top ten 3 Star signees (including the top three) didn't make it to their Soph year. Another left after the Jr year. One third of the thirty three 3 star signees left the program early. Of those who stayed and graduated, two WR's had a combined stat line of 16 receptions. 1 TD, one RB was a career back up to 2 star Marcus Cox, another had 48 carries for 197 yards. Two defensive players became starters their Sr seasons. Meanwhile none of App's All Sunbelt honorees were rated three stars. Including a OPY who failed to be given the minimum,700 2 star rating.

A) The ratings are given by people that use a set of criteria to evaluate players as their profession. If they were consistently wrong, they wouldn't have jobs in the industry for very long.
B) Those "experts" and their "opinions" are what form the ratings that so strongly correlate to on the field success.
C) I doubt you believe that those low-rated players that succeeded at App St would have done as well at a different school under a different coach, so why is it so difficult to just credit Satterfield and his staff for finding players that didn't stand out significantly in high school and developing them beyond what their abilities appeared to be?

You don't think Jalin Moore & Marcus Cox would have been great backs anywhere he went? Clifton Duck would have been a worse CB freshman All American as a true freshman - at another school? Coaching is important, but no coach can turn so-so talent into all conference players. Our staff has a very good eye for talent and I KNOW they could care less about the number of stars a prospect has.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using CSNbbs mobile app

(02-08-2018 07:46 PM)OsageJ Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:43 PM)ApexRedWolf Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:28 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:17 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:06 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  honestly..my guess is that we need to sustain some success for 5+ years to change the perception of Georgia kids about Georgia State football. I believe Florida, Alabama, and Carolina kids are easier to recruit since they're looking for reasons to get out of town and visit places like Atlanta. They look happy enough after touring the shiny new stadium and the locker room.

I'm just glad that Georgia Southern and soon Georgia State will be able to siphon off the talent that can be found in Georgia. Georgia is a lot like Texas and Florida in that it has an overabundance of talent that can support multiple FBS teams. For decades, there have only been 2 FBS teams in the state and several other schools in country recruit Georgia hard because they know there is high talent with low competition in the area. If Georgia Southern and Georgia State can close that pipeline and get the kids that would otherwise go to a P5 across the country to stay in state, we would be golden.

Georgia, Georgia Tech, Georgia State, and Georgia Southern should all push the narrative of staying and playing for your state and for your home to lock in all the in state talent we have. It would only help all four of us moving forward.

Georgia getting the #1 recruiting class really helps both of your schools. Neither of you are competing in any with Georgia and that allows some higher rated (by SBC standards) recruits to land at your schools. The same is true when Alabama and Auburn are good. We don't have to compete with them for players like we do when they're bad.

As bad as we dont want to admit it, that's the trend in Arkansas too. Thats why we were so sad to see Bielema go. Mediocrity was perfect. They werent good and we didnt have to fight so hard for in-state talent.

I think you have that backwards. When they are good they tend to look out of state more. I have loved the blow ups over there recently though.

We have not even touched the potential of instate and metro talent yet.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

(02-09-2018 12:12 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 10:14 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 09:18 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:48 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:39 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  No. That's the "experts" opinion.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using CSNbbs mobile app

so when you look at facts comparing recruiting rankings and school rankings, and see that app greatly over performs to their level of talent compared to the rest of college football, you consider that an opinion?

Interesting.

I take it you aren't in a field that involves analytics of any sort.

I take it you're not in a field that involves comprehension.

The opinion I refer to is that of the recruiting "experts" who evaluate these players. A rating is nothing more than one person's opinion. The difference is where some place an unwavering belief in the accuracy of the rating system, I see it as inherently flawed. I am amused you guys are dead set on attributing App's success to a superior & stable coaching staff, simply because in your mind there is no way these low rated players could perform to that high of a standard. I have argued ad nauseam App looks for players who best fit our scheme and embrace the Boone environment, regardless of the rating. There comes a point when you have to step back and question this rating system. Five of App's top ten 3 Star signees (including the top three) didn't make it to their Soph year. Another left after the Jr year. One third of the thirty three 3 star signees left the program early. Of those who stayed and graduated, two WR's had a combined stat line of 16 receptions. 1 TD, one RB was a career back up to 2 star Marcus Cox, another had 48 carries for 197 yards. Two defensive players became starters their Sr seasons. Meanwhile none of App's All Sunbelt honorees were rated three stars. Including a OPY who failed to be given the minimum,700 2 star rating.

A) The ratings are given by people that use a set of criteria to evaluate players as their profession. If they were consistently wrong, they wouldn't have jobs in the industry for very long.
B) Those "experts" and their "opinions" are what form the ratings that so strongly correlate to on the field success.
C) I doubt you believe that those low-rated players that succeeded at App St would have done as well at a different school under a different coach, so why is it so difficult to just credit Satterfield and his staff for finding players that didn't stand out significantly in high school and developing them beyond what their abilities appeared to be?

You don't think Jalin Moore & Marcus Cox would have been great backs anywhere he went? Clifton Duck would have been a worse CB freshman All American as a true freshman - at another school? Coaching is important, but no coach can turn so-so talent into all conference players. Our staff has a very good eye for talent and I KNOW they could care less about the number of stars a prospect has.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using CSNbbs mobile app

So you think the coaching and development at App State isn't that important, then.
Interesting take.

You're never going to stop P5's from picking who they want out of GA & FL. Maybe those 2 or 3 star kids that you can convince not to ride the bench for 3 years is basically where you win.

(02-08-2018 03:19 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 12:36 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 10:06 AM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 09:58 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  

(02-08-2018 08:50 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  you are clearly missing the point.

Anecdotal evidence doesn't work when looking at trends of 130+ teams.

It's like saying you played russian roulette with a 6 shooter, and didn't get shot twice, therefore it's a safe game to play.

No I get your point, but you're missing mine. Some schools just get more out of the players. App is one of them, Boise is another.

Overall recruiting ranking DO provide a guide of who will be good in the future, yet a handful of programs continue to over perform their historical rankings.

We all get that point, so much so that's it's part of all our arguments. We know there are schools that overachieve because they have great coaching staffs. We are arguing against the "the recruiting rankings don't matter at all" crowd.

I've not seen one post saying recruiting doesn't matter. I've made lot's of posts saying you can't base everything on stars. First and foremost you absolutely must find players that fit your system and culture. You recruit potential and develop it. I keep a database of App's recruits star ratings. Excluding the last two signing classes, an overwhelming majority of our highest rated 3 star signees washed out of the program by their redshirt sophomore year. Conversely, some of the most decorated players in App history we're not highly regarded by the recruiting"experts". Many at the very bottom end of the rating scale. Some like to cite studies and articles, but it's hard to dispute solid data. I know, I know.... App is an exception. Explain it away all you like. Results speak for themselves.

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I'll give you this:
Your refusal to accept facts that contradict your predisposed way of thinking is consistent with your stance on evolution.

The world is flat. Dinosaurs are made up. Adam and Eve are from the Space Ark piloted by Noah.

All I'm thinking is this:

The staff at App (as well as other staffs) do a great job of not only identifying talent, but also high character as well. Often times, the coaches may look past a kid that has more "talent" for a talented kid that has higher character. I tend to believe that football is just as much of a mental game as it is physical. Character/work ethic/morals are all attributes that make a football player great that just can not be identified by a recruiting scout or on a recruiting website. What I love the most about this class is that App got WHO THEY WANTED and got them early. This tells me we got the talented and high character guys who will work hard enough and develop to keep the winning tradition going.
I can't say anything about anyone else's class, but I do tend to question higher rated (talented) players that are left alone by the big schools late in the year ... doesn't mean they're bad kids mind you, I just question.
We all can brag about recruiting rankings now, but lets be honest, we really won't know till bout 2-3 years from now.