(12-14-2017 04:14 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 03:42 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Personally, I don't celebrate "Christmas' much. Not a fan of the music or the specials. No small children or grandchildren. Not religious. I will probably spend December 25th in a casino, if I am lucky enough to find one open. If some misguided soul wishes me a Merry Christmas or a Happy Holiday ro whatever, I will graciously accept their well wishes, but I would just as soon forget the whole thing.

But I note that on calendars, it is marked "Christmas", not "Holiday". Banks and post offices close for Christmas, not Holiday. Employees are given Christmas off, not Holiday.

Not a BFD, IMO. I wish you all a very merry Monday after next, and a Happy New Year.

Yeah, and the date today is not Dec 25th today. Therefore, it makes a lot more sense to say "Happy Holidays" on the days leading up to and after Christmas, as there are a number of holidays celebrated around Dec 25th.

I mean, it isn't called the Holiday Season for entirely PC reasons...

so, on the 25th, what should one say? On the 24th, what Eve is it? When the employees get a day off a week from Monday, why is that? What kind of party will they have at your office, and if it is a Christmas party, will you refuse to attend?

It is the Christmas season. Just ask the retailers.

What words should we use during the
Easter season?

Just say "Happy Festivus"

(12-14-2017 04:55 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 04:14 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 03:42 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Personally, I don't celebrate "Christmas' much. Not a fan of the music or the specials. No small children or grandchildren. Not religious. I will probably spend December 25th in a casino, if I am lucky enough to find one open. If some misguided soul wishes me a Merry Christmas or a Happy Holiday ro whatever, I will graciously accept their well wishes, but I would just as soon forget the whole thing.

But I note that on calendars, it is marked "Christmas", not "Holiday". Banks and post offices close for Christmas, not Holiday. Employees are given Christmas off, not Holiday.

Not a BFD, IMO. I wish you all a very merry Monday after next, and a Happy New Year.

Yeah, and the date today is not Dec 25th today. Therefore, it makes a lot more sense to say "Happy Holidays" on the days leading up to and after Christmas, as there are a number of holidays celebrated around Dec 25th.

I mean, it isn't called the Holiday Season for entirely PC reasons...

so, on the 25th, what should one say? On the 24th, what Eve is it? When the employees get a day off a week from Monday, why is that? What kind of party will they have at your office, and if it is a Christmas party, will you refuse to attend?

It is the Christmas season. Just ask the retailers.

What words should we use during the
Easter season?

Oh goodness. I was merely explaining why saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas at this time of year makes sense.

I already said that people shouldn't freak out if someone says Merry Christmas to a Jewish person, or to anyone else who doesn't celebrate Christmas.

I'm not offended by people saying Merry Christmas, and I'm a bit annoyed when people do get offended. However, I get more angry by people who have your position and can't seem to fathom the idea that it may be more appropriate to say Happy Holidays in certain instances.

And as to retailers they seem to do a variety of things. It's Holiday Gifts at Nordstrom (https://shop.nordstrom.com/c/holiday-gifts). It's a smattering of the two at Best Buy (https://www.bestbuy.com/site/gift-ideas/...6957944904) and Wal-Mart (https://www.bestbuy.com/site/gift-ideas/...57944904). And some just avoid it all together - the only reference to Christmas at Target is to Christmas specific decor (https://www.target.com/).

And at my office, we are having a Holiday Party this Saturday. Not a mention of Christmas, the invite says "To celebrate the holiday season with fellow employees and good cheer, we're planning a holiday dinner to end the year."

I don't think anyone should be force to use a specific phrase, they should just be mindful of what they're saying. And to reiterate, that people shouldn't freak out if someone wishes them a Merry Christmas and they don't celebrate that day.

(12-14-2017 05:07 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Just say "Happy Festivus"

(12-14-2017 05:07 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Just say "Happy Festivus"

Is that before or after the airing of grievances?

(12-14-2017 05:28 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 04:55 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 04:14 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 03:42 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Personally, I don't celebrate "Christmas' much. Not a fan of the music or the specials. No small children or grandchildren. Not religious. I will probably spend December 25th in a casino, if I am lucky enough to find one open. If some misguided soul wishes me a Merry Christmas or a Happy Holiday ro whatever, I will graciously accept their well wishes, but I would just as soon forget the whole thing.

But I note that on calendars, it is marked "Christmas", not "Holiday". Banks and post offices close for Christmas, not Holiday. Employees are given Christmas off, not Holiday.

Not a BFD, IMO. I wish you all a very merry Monday after next, and a Happy New Year.

Yeah, and the date today is not Dec 25th today. Therefore, it makes a lot more sense to say "Happy Holidays" on the days leading up to and after Christmas, as there are a number of holidays celebrated around Dec 25th.

I mean, it isn't called the Holiday Season for entirely PC reasons...

so, on the 25th, what should one say? On the 24th, what Eve is it? When the employees get a day off a week from Monday, why is that? What kind of party will they have at your office, and if it is a Christmas party, will you refuse to attend?

It is the Christmas season. Just ask the retailers.

What words should we use during the
Easter season?

Oh goodness. I was merely explaining why saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas at this time of year makes sense.

I already said that people shouldn't freak out if someone says Merry Christmas to a Jewish person, or to anyone else who doesn't celebrate Christmas.

I'm not offended by people saying Merry Christmas, and I'm a bit annoyed when people do get offended. However, I get more angry by people who have your position and can't seem to fathom the idea that it may be more appropriate to say Happy Holidays in certain instances.

And as to retailers they seem to do a variety of things. It's Holiday Gifts at Nordstrom (https://shop.nordstrom.com/c/holiday-gifts). It's a smattering of the two at Best Buy (https://www.bestbuy.com/site/gift-ideas/...6957944904) and Wal-Mart (https://www.bestbuy.com/site/gift-ideas/...57944904). And some just avoid it all together - the only reference to Christmas at Target is to Christmas specific decor (https://www.target.com/).

And at my office, we are having a Holiday Party this Saturday. Not a mention of Christmas, the invite says "To celebrate the holiday season with fellow employees and good cheer, we're planning a holiday dinner to end the year."

I don't think anyone should be force to use a specific phrase, they should just be mindful of what they're saying. And to reiterate, that people shouldn't freak out if someone wishes them a Merry Christmas and they don't celebrate that day.

I think that as a general rule, we should not act or speak to make others unhappy.

But trying to find phrases that will never make anybody unhappy is a fool's errand.

So I will go with the majority.

If I am in an area of overwhelming Christianity, as I am, I will say "Christmas", because that is the holiday being celebrated by the general community. If somebody says to me, I am a Wiccan and the mention of a christian holiday is offensive to me, I will apologize to the Wiccan and say happy solstice or whatever they prefer. i just want them to be happy.

sounds like you work in an office that either (a) has a bunch of bosses afraid to say "Christmas", or (B) has a bunch of non-christian employees and the boss know it.

In my businesses, everybody was happy to take Christmas off, everybody was happy to accept their Christmas bonus, and everybody was allowed to wear Christmas sweaters. never had a problem.

(12-15-2017 12:33 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 05:28 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 04:55 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 04:14 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(12-14-2017 03:42 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Personally, I don't celebrate "Christmas' much. Not a fan of the music or the specials. No small children or grandchildren. Not religious. I will probably spend December 25th in a casino, if I am lucky enough to find one open. If some misguided soul wishes me a Merry Christmas or a Happy Holiday ro whatever, I will graciously accept their well wishes, but I would just as soon forget the whole thing.

But I note that on calendars, it is marked "Christmas", not "Holiday". Banks and post offices close for Christmas, not Holiday. Employees are given Christmas off, not Holiday.

Not a BFD, IMO. I wish you all a very merry Monday after next, and a Happy New Year.

Yeah, and the date today is not Dec 25th today. Therefore, it makes a lot more sense to say "Happy Holidays" on the days leading up to and after Christmas, as there are a number of holidays celebrated around Dec 25th.

I mean, it isn't called the Holiday Season for entirely PC reasons...

so, on the 25th, what should one say? On the 24th, what Eve is it? When the employees get a day off a week from Monday, why is that? What kind of party will they have at your office, and if it is a Christmas party, will you refuse to attend?

It is the Christmas season. Just ask the retailers.

What words should we use during the
Easter season?

Oh goodness. I was merely explaining why saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas at this time of year makes sense.

I already said that people shouldn't freak out if someone says Merry Christmas to a Jewish person, or to anyone else who doesn't celebrate Christmas.

I'm not offended by people saying Merry Christmas, and I'm a bit annoyed when people do get offended. However, I get more angry by people who have your position and can't seem to fathom the idea that it may be more appropriate to say Happy Holidays in certain instances.

And as to retailers they seem to do a variety of things. It's Holiday Gifts at Nordstrom (https://shop.nordstrom.com/c/holiday-gifts). It's a smattering of the two at Best Buy (https://www.bestbuy.com/site/gift-ideas/...6957944904) and Wal-Mart (https://www.bestbuy.com/site/gift-ideas/...57944904). And some just avoid it all together - the only reference to Christmas at Target is to Christmas specific decor (https://www.target.com/).

And at my office, we are having a Holiday Party this Saturday. Not a mention of Christmas, the invite says "To celebrate the holiday season with fellow employees and good cheer, we're planning a holiday dinner to end the year."

I don't think anyone should be force to use a specific phrase, they should just be mindful of what they're saying. And to reiterate, that people shouldn't freak out if someone wishes them a Merry Christmas and they don't celebrate that day.

I think that as a general rule, we should not act or speak to make others unhappy.

But trying to find phrases that will never make anybody unhappy is a fool's errand.

So I will go with the majority.

If I am in an area of overwhelming Christianity, as I am, I will say "Christmas", because that is the holiday being celebrated by the general community. If somebody says to me, I am a Wiccan and the mention of a christian holiday is offensive to me, I will apologize to the Wiccan and say happy solstice or whatever they prefer. i just want them to be happy.

sounds like you work in an office that either (a) has a bunch of bosses afraid to say "Christmas", or (B) has a bunch of non-christian employees and the boss know it.

In my businesses, everybody was happy to take Christmas off, everybody was happy to accept their Christmas bonus, and everybody was allowed to wear Christmas sweaters. never had a problem.

You're looking at this incorrectly.

It's not about not trying to offend people, it's about trying to be as inclusive as possible. As I've said before, it's pretty absurd for someone to be offended by being told to have a Merry Christmas, regardless of their religious background. I agree that people shouldn't care if someone gives them a Christmas bonus. But it isn't absurd to say Happy Holidays in order to try and make sure you're including as many people as possible, or use another term just because it doesn't matter at all.

I think that people have just changed, generally, and work to be more inclusive with this saying. As I've said before as well, it's not like it is only Christmas that is being celebrated this time of year. There is also another religious holiday (Hanukkah) and then a non-denominational one (New Year's), so it makes sense to have a Holiday Party.

I definitely do not have an office of bosses who are afraid to say Christmas, but we randomly don't have a lot of Christmas specific language. We get an end of year bonus, we have a holiday party, but the head of our office's wife definitely bakes a platter of Christmas cookies every year. And my office is also happy to take Christmas and Christmas eve off, we're also happy to take New Year's off, and Labor Day off, and so on. We call the holidays by their name because it happens on that day - so it's descriptive of the day. Now we don't take Good Friday off, but that's because we don't get that as a holiday, instead we get a roaming personal day so you can take any other religious holiday, or just random day, off.

Anyways, I'm not really sure what we're arguing about. We both seem to agree that people should not be offended if someone wishes them a Merry Christmas, and I think that's very important.

I choose to say Merry Christmas. If you choose to be offended, I'm sorry.

(12-15-2017 07:42 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I choose to say Merry Christmas. If you choose to be offended, I'm sorry.

Agreed with the latter.

I just don’t get people who seemingly get offended with the decision others make to say Happy Holidays.

(12-15-2017 08:06 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(12-15-2017 07:42 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I choose to say Merry Christmas. If you choose to be offended, I'm sorry.

Agreed with the latter.
I just don’t get people who seemingly get offended with the decision others make to say Happy Holidays.

That doesn't offend me either.

I think the manufactured offense industry in the US has grown way too big. There's a really good essay by Bill James (who leans pretty far left politically, for what that is worth) about Marge Schott that makes several very good points IMO.

Sorry. I just get tired of certain groups (political liberals, for one)telling me what I must or must not do, or should or should not do, then turning around and complaining about other groups (fundamentalist Christians, for one) trying tell them how to live their lives. And i, of course, belong to neither group at this time, although at different points in my life I belonged to both.

I will stick to my belief that if the day on the calendar is Christmas, that the days around it are the Christmas season, and there is nothing wrong with saying so.

I tend to divorce the New Year from the Christmas season. AFAIAC, the Christmas season ends when Christmas does. Kind of like the Halloween season is over when Halloween is over.

My employees got their Christmas bonuses at our Christmas party held during Christmas season. Do you get your end-of-year bonus at the end of the year? Is it marked on the check, end of year bonus?

I wish you the happiest of time off to observe religious holidays, and a prosperous 2018.

\Heck, I wish that for everybody here.

Have a good one, everyone.

Back to the topic.

Heard someone ask, besides the fact that one won and the other lost,
what's the difference between Trump 2016 and Moore 2017?

(12-15-2017 09:56 AM)JSA Wrote:  Have a good one, everyone.
Back to the topic.
Heard someone ask, besides the fact that one won and the other lost,
what's the difference between Trump 2016 and Moore 2017?

Seriously? If you really think Donald Trump and Roy Moore are the same or anywhere close, then I'm sorry for you.

(12-15-2017 08:43 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  AFAIAC, the Christmas season ends when Christmas does.

Technically, I think Jan 5th is the 12th day of Christmas.

First of all, apologies, for starting this conversation. I deserve a lump of coal in my stocking.

My position is generally the same as Lad’s. My parents, both Midwestern Republicans used to send out Happy Holidays or Season’s Greetings cards back in the 70s and 80s long before the alleged “war on Christmas” started. They were completely non-political and widely used terms back then, and also meant they didn’t have to get special cards for non-Christian friends. I mean, I don’t wish non-Muslim friends Happy Ramadan…

So it just seems like this is “manufactured outrage” as Owl69 put it. I am not aware of anyone that finds “Merry Christmas” offensive. I say it as much or more than Happy Holidays. I just don’t understand why if I wish a group of people of mixed or unknown religion Happy Holidays someone would get angry that I didn’t say Merry Christmas. And, yes, I have witnessed this in real life.

I work at a large public university, and we have had a Christmas tree in our office every year since we moved to our new building. We have a couple different holiday parties, at which Christmas songs are played. And one at which the Dean always sends us home a couple hours early to “finish our Christmas shopping”. When the tree goes up we always get an email letting everyone know that decorations for all holidays are welcome. Tangtonic will be pleased to know I have a Festivus Pole in my office.

Honestly, the only person in the nearly 15 years I’ve worked here who may have been uncomfortable with all this was a guy who was probably as devout a Christian as anyone I’ve worked with – but he was a Jehovah’s Witness and did not celebrate any holidays (or birthdays) as a matter of faith. He always bowed out of holiday and birthday celebrations, and everyone respected that.

The only case I’ve ever been annoyed at someone saying “Merry Christmas” to me is one of my wife’s cousins who says it in a confrontational way the same way he would say something to start a political argument. And then it’s not “Merry Christmas” that’s offensive, it’s the fact that he’s being an a-hole at a family gathering. And the fact that it’s stupid to think that a guy who shows up with antlers and a Rudolph nose on his car is going to be mortally offended by the words “Merry Christmas!”

I’ve noticed that many people have started saying “Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!”

Works for me, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, y’all!

(12-15-2017 09:56 AM)JSA Wrote:  Have a good one, everyone.

Back to the topic.

Heard someone ask, besides the fact that one won and the other lost,
what's the difference between Trump 2016 and Moore 2017?

Moore had more government experience than Trump.

(12-15-2017 11:40 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  

(12-15-2017 09:56 AM)JSA Wrote:  Have a good one, everyone.

Back to the topic.

Heard someone ask, besides the fact that one won and the other lost,
what's the difference between Trump 2016 and Moore 2017?

Moore had more government experience than Trump.

Trump opposed Moore in the primaries. Hardly the position of a clone.

(12-15-2017 11:35 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  

(12-15-2017 08:43 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  AFAIAC, the Christmas season ends when Christmas does.

Technically, I think Jan 5th is the 12th day of Christmas.

Exactly! Christmas BEGINS on December 25; the season we are in now is Advent, a period of introspection and calm reflection. I don’t know what OO is thinking.

(12-18-2017 12:26 AM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(12-15-2017 11:35 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  

(12-15-2017 08:43 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  AFAIAC, the Christmas season ends when Christmas does.

Technically, I think Jan 5th is the 12th day of Christmas.

Exactly! Christmas BEGINS on December 25; the season we are in now is Advent, a period of introspection and calm reflection. I don’t know what OO is thinking.

Advent of what?

And is Advent a holiday, so that we can say to each other, "Happy Holidays" and that would include Advent?

On the Christian calendar, the twelve days of Christmas are December 25-January 5. January 6 is Epiphany. The four Sundays before Christmas are Advent, as George described.

Liturgical churches observe all three seasons. Nom-liturgical denominations almost all observe Christmas, many observe Epiphany, and some are starting to observe Advent.