(12-16-2017 09:59 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  But don't some of those schools have only hundreds of students? Of course they shouldn't move up. NDSU is much bigger.

Look what Madison did. Geez, it's just time.

D3 do have very large schools that should handle being in D1.
University of Chicago
NYU and several New York state schools.
Several public California schools and Texas schools are large.

NYU is by far the largest.

(12-16-2017 09:59 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  But don't some of those schools have only hundreds of students? Of course they shouldn't move up. NDSU is much bigger.

Look what Madison did. Geez, it's just time.

NDSU would be one of the smallest schools in FBS. They are a good fit in FCS. They used to be one of the largest schools in Division II, so it was right that they moved up.

(12-16-2017 08:31 PM)NoDak Wrote:  It's JMU vs NDSU for the FCS Championship on Jan 6th at Frisco, Texas.

The FCS field will implode shortly after that game.

I watched a lot of both of the semifinals, until NDS and JM pulled away.

Will definitely tune in for the title game.

What is it about that stadium that enamors so many?

(12-17-2017 09:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-16-2017 09:59 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  But don't some of those schools have only hundreds of students? Of course they shouldn't move up. NDSU is much bigger.

Look what Madison did. Geez, it's just time.

NDSU would be one of the smallest schools in FBS. They are a good fit in FCS. They used to be one of the largest schools in Division II, so it was right that they moved up.

They have more students than the private schools in FBS. Tulsa by far it seems to be smaller than anybody right now.

(12-18-2017 04:04 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-17-2017 09:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-16-2017 09:59 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  But don't some of those schools have only hundreds of students? Of course they shouldn't move up. NDSU is much bigger.

Look what Madison did. Geez, it's just time.

NDSU would be one of the smallest schools in FBS. They are a good fit in FCS. They used to be one of the largest schools in Division II, so it was right that they moved up.

They have more students than the private schools in FBS. Tulsa by far it seems to be smaller than anybody right now.

Damn, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now-and-then.

NDSU's enrollment isn't the issue, it is 100% geography. NDSU as an FCS school offers full cost of attendance across the board and has great facilities and support.

(12-16-2017 09:59 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  But don't some of those schools have only hundreds of students? Of course they shouldn't move up. NDSU is much bigger.

Look what Madison did. Geez, it's just time.

Its a bit more of what SDSU did. Ten turnovers? Unheard of. Some were forced by JMU, many were self inflicted. It is why we are still a basketball school. Our FB program is known for WTF losses while our basketball teams are known more for WTF wins.

As for NDSU being larger then a lot of private schools. There is a HUGE difference in a private school and how they can spend, and raise money then a public institution within the Dakota's.

(12-18-2017 02:42 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(12-16-2017 09:59 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  But don't some of those schools have only hundreds of students? Of course they shouldn't move up. NDSU is much bigger.

Look what Madison did. Geez, it's just time.

Its a bit more of what SDSU did. Ten turnovers? Unheard of. Some were forced by JMU, many were self inflicted. It is why we are still a basketball school. Our FB program is known for WTF losses while our basketball teams are known more for WTF wins.

As for NDSU being larger then a lot of private schools. There is a HUGE difference in a private school and how they can spend, and raise money then a public institution within the Dakota's.

yep. JMU had nothing to do with it. Thanks for the xmas gift !

wouldn't be because we've won 26 in a row for a reason, could it?

(12-18-2017 08:38 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(12-18-2017 04:04 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-17-2017 09:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-16-2017 09:59 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  But don't some of those schools have only hundreds of students? Of course they shouldn't move up. NDSU is much bigger.

Look what Madison did. Geez, it's just time.

NDSU would be one of the smallest schools in FBS. They are a good fit in FCS. They used to be one of the largest schools in Division II, so it was right that they moved up.

They have more students than the private schools in FBS. Tulsa by far it seems to be smaller than anybody right now.

Damn, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now-and-then.

North Dakota State is near the bottom of FBS enrollments. I grabbed anyone under 15,000 enrollment. I could see NDSU being another "University of Wyoming" or "New Mexico State" like school. A state flagship in flyover country. The biggest problem that NDSU faces is that they are geographically isolated from the existing FBS conferences. Minnesota is the closest P5 school at 3.5 hours. However, the Big Ten is not going to take them.
Wyoming is the closest G5 school and they are 12+ hours away.


So Miss 14845
Duke 14832
NDSU 14513
Wichita State 14495
Boston College 14250
Arkansas State 14074
Tulane 13531
LaTech 12873
Vanderbilt 12686
Wyoming 12648
Notre Dame 12292
Idaho 11957
SMU 10929
Coastal Carolina 10479
TCU 10394
UL Monroe 8854
Wake Forest 7669
Rice 6498
Tulsa 4682
Navy 4576
Army 4294
Air Force 4111

(12-19-2017 03:03 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(12-18-2017 08:38 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(12-18-2017 04:04 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-17-2017 09:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-16-2017 09:59 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  But don't some of those schools have only hundreds of students? Of course they shouldn't move up. NDSU is much bigger.

Look what Madison did. Geez, it's just time.

NDSU would be one of the smallest schools in FBS. They are a good fit in FCS. They used to be one of the largest schools in Division II, so it was right that they moved up.

They have more students than the private schools in FBS. Tulsa by far it seems to be smaller than anybody right now.

Damn, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now-and-then.

North Dakota State is near the bottom of FBS enrollments. I grabbed anyone under 15,000 enrollment. I could see NDSU being another "University of Wyoming" or "New Mexico State" like school. A state flagship in flyover country. The biggest problem that NDSU faces is that they are geographically isolated from the existing FBS conferences. Minnesota is the closest P5 school at 3.5 hours. However, the Big Ten is not going to take them.
Wyoming is the closest G5 school and they are 12+ hours away.


So Miss 14845
Duke 14832
NDSU 14513
Wichita State 14495
Boston College 14250
Arkansas State 14074
Tulane 13531
LaTech 12873
Vanderbilt 12686
Wyoming 12648
Notre Dame 12292
Idaho 11957
SMU 10929
Coastal Carolina 10479
TCU 10394
UL Monroe 8854
Wake Forest 7669
Rice 6498
Tulsa 4682
Navy 4576
Army 4294
Air Force 4111

Deleting the privates, non-football schools and Military Academies, we are left with:

NDSU 14513

Arkansas State 14074
LaTech 12873
Wyoming 12648
Idaho 11957
Coastal Carolina 10479
UL Monroe 8854


Idaho is moving to FCS
Arkansas State does well, but is surrounded by other G5 schools
Same with La Tech
Wyoming is near rivals (CSU, AF) plus only four-year school in the state.

CCU is new, and a marginal add.

ULM struggles, has the lowest budget in FBS by far.

(12-19-2017 03:03 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(12-18-2017 08:38 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(12-18-2017 04:04 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-17-2017 09:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-16-2017 09:59 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  But don't some of those schools have only hundreds of students? Of course they shouldn't move up. NDSU is much bigger.

Look what Madison did. Geez, it's just time.

NDSU would be one of the smallest schools in FBS. They are a good fit in FCS. They used to be one of the largest schools in Division II, so it was right that they moved up.

They have more students than the private schools in FBS. Tulsa by far it seems to be smaller than anybody right now.

Damn, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now-and-then.

North Dakota State is near the bottom of FBS enrollments. I grabbed anyone under 15,000 enrollment. I could see NDSU being another "University of Wyoming" or "New Mexico State" like school. A state flagship in flyover country. The biggest problem that NDSU faces is that they are geographically isolated from the existing FBS conferences. Minnesota is the closest P5 school at 3.5 hours. However, the Big Ten is not going to take them.
Wyoming is the closest G5 school and they are 12+ hours away.


So Miss 14845
Duke 14832
NDSU 14513
Wichita State 14495
Boston College 14250
Arkansas State 14074
Tulane 13531
LaTech 12873
Vanderbilt 12686
Wyoming 12648
Notre Dame 12292
Idaho 11957
SMU 10929
Coastal Carolina 10479
TCU 10394
UL Monroe 8854
Wake Forest 7669
Rice 6498
Tulsa 4682
Navy 4576
Army 4294
Air Force 4111

I wasn't trying to argue that NDSU should move up... I am of the opinion that there ought to be a moratorium on "move-ups" and that a number of "FBS" teams ought to move DOWN.

FTR, NDSU is a little under 12 hours from Kalamazoo [Western Michigan] and under 9 hours to NIU, neither as the crow flies and faster for people who drive really fast.

(12-19-2017 05:58 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  FTR, NDSU is a little under 12 hours from Kalamazoo [Western Michigan] and under 9 hours to NIU, neither as the crow flies and faster for people who drive really fast.

NDSU is not going to the MAC. Period. They don't want to play on Tuesday nights, and they wouldn't be gaining leaps and bounds on the TV deal; they get $400k a year from NBC North Dakota to put their games on statewide OTA television, while MAC schools get $670,000 to be ESPN filler. The MAC's meager bowl payouts aren't impressive and the added expenses of additional FCOA scholarships is problematic, and on top of all that, ticket sales would decline because of all the midweek games. It's no bueno.

Even NDSU to the Mountain West is a long shot because of geography; they would be the only team in the Central Time Zone in that conference. It'd take a pretty radical alteration of the landscape such as it is for that to fly. San Diego or Fresno to Fargo is almost halfway across the country, which is a stretch even if it were just for football. To say nothing of the fact that it takes NDSU away from its recruiting base in the Upper Midwest.

IMO, the only way NDSU moves up is if they can join the American as a football affiliate if/when the American gets hit by the Big 12. Otherwise, they have a reasonable TV deal, excellent crowds, play for national titles every year and are competitive against Minnesota, Iowa, and Iowa State for recruits in the region without playing in a G5 conference.

I can't speak for JMU, their math might be different. But purely from an outside optics standpoint, I'd hold out for the American as well if I were them.

Neither would get the call from the American unless it were severely gutted. And even then, there are numerous more attractive options in C-USA, the Sun Belt and perhaps even the MAC, such as Northern Illinois.

Their ceiling is C-USA unless the American becomes C-USA if you catch my drift. They will never be grouped with the current core of the American imo but they do in theory belong with the current core of C-USA, i.e. the members who have never been in the Sun Belt.

(12-16-2017 08:31 PM)NoDak Wrote:  It's JMU vs NDSU for the FCS Championship on Jan 6th at Frisco, Texas.

The FCS field will implode shortly after that game.

This implosion has been pretty quiet. Any news that we've been missing Nodak?

(01-24-2018 04:47 PM)BisonCardinal Wrote:  

(12-16-2017 08:31 PM)NoDak Wrote:  It's JMU vs NDSU for the FCS Championship on Jan 6th at Frisco, Texas.

The FCS field will implode shortly after that game.

This implosion has been pretty quiet. Any news that we've been missing Nodak?

It depends on what your definition of "shortly" is.

(01-24-2018 05:01 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(01-24-2018 04:47 PM)BisonCardinal Wrote:  

(12-16-2017 08:31 PM)NoDak Wrote:  It's JMU vs NDSU for the FCS Championship on Jan 6th at Frisco, Texas.

The FCS field will implode shortly after that game.

This implosion has been pretty quiet. Any news that we've been missing Nodak?

It depends on what your definition of "shortly" is.

(12-20-2017 10:02 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Neither would get the call from the American unless it were severely gutted. And even then, there are numerous more attractive options in C-USA, the Sun Belt and perhaps even the MAC, such as Northern Illinois.

Their ceiling is C-USA unless the American becomes C-USA if you catch my drift. They will never be grouped with the current core of the American imo but they do in theory belong with the current core of C-USA, i.e. the members who have never been in the Sun Belt.

Based on the statement above, this is the group of schools where JMU belongs.
Southern Miss
UAB
LA Tech
UTSA
Rice
UTEP
Marshall
ODU
Charlotte

I wouldn't LOVE the geography of this league, but ODU/Charlotte/Marshall nearby makes it a bit better. I'm honestly not sure our no-balls admin would even go for this setup. I imagine we'd hear about too many Texas trips & that they would prefer not to travel to Alabama/Mississippi either...

(01-25-2018 02:45 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 10:02 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Neither would get the call from the American unless it were severely gutted. And even then, there are numerous more attractive options in C-USA, the Sun Belt and perhaps even the MAC, such as Northern Illinois.

Their ceiling is C-USA unless the American becomes C-USA if you catch my drift. They will never be grouped with the current core of the American imo but they do in theory belong with the current core of C-USA, i.e. the members who have never been in the Sun Belt.

Based on the statement above, this is the group of schools where JMU belongs.
Southern Miss
UAB
LA Tech
UTSA
Rice
UTEP
Marshall
ODU
Charlotte

I wouldn't LOVE the geography of this league, but ODU/Charlotte/Marshall nearby makes it a bit better. I'm honestly not sure our no-balls admin would even go for this setup. I imagine we'd hear about too many Texas trips & that they would prefer not to travel to Alabama/Mississippi either...

Well technically speaking ODU and UAB both used to be in the Sun Belt though before football.