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Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
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Post: #41
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 10:55 AM)el_norte Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 01:44 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Not only are power conference schools fearful of scheduling home-and-home series with schools in leagues such as the MVC, but future opportunities even to be bought (a guaranteed amount of money) for a road game could be greatly reduced.

The Big Ten has announced it will go to a 20-game conference schedule (from the current 18) next season. The ACC is expected to do so the following season. The other three power-five conferences could follow suit.

That means less quality games for Valley schools — and less of a chance to get a win to pad an NCAA tourney resume.

"Every coach in our league is in agreement and we know where this is headed. We have to expand," said Southern Illinois coach Barry Hinson. "We have to go to 20 conference games.

"I don't know who that is. I don't know who the best fit is. I'm excited about Valpo in our league. I think they add to our league. It was a great decision by our conference, but I think you need to add two more teams."

When the MVC added Valpo last spring, Elgin said a presidents-led committee would continue to look at expansion this school year.

"It (expansion) would help us schedule because it's difficult to get games." said Missouri State coach Paul Lusk.

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college...caec3.html

Well, half of the Missouri Valley Football Conference is waiting to join the rest of its conference...so you can start there.

Look at the 3 Dakota schools in the MVFC.
12-08-2017 03:52 PM
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Post: #42
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 03:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 10:55 AM)el_norte Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 01:44 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Not only are power conference schools fearful of scheduling home-and-home series with schools in leagues such as the MVC, but future opportunities even to be bought (a guaranteed amount of money) for a road game could be greatly reduced.

The Big Ten has announced it will go to a 20-game conference schedule (from the current 18) next season. The ACC is expected to do so the following season. The other three power-five conferences could follow suit.

That means less quality games for Valley schools — and less of a chance to get a win to pad an NCAA tourney resume.

"Every coach in our league is in agreement and we know where this is headed. We have to expand," said Southern Illinois coach Barry Hinson. "We have to go to 20 conference games.

"I don't know who that is. I don't know who the best fit is. I'm excited about Valpo in our league. I think they add to our league. It was a great decision by our conference, but I think you need to add two more teams."

When the MVC added Valpo last spring, Elgin said a presidents-led committee would continue to look at expansion this school year.

"It (expansion) would help us schedule because it's difficult to get games." said Missouri State coach Paul Lusk.

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college...caec3.html

Well, half of the Missouri Valley Football Conference is waiting to join the rest of its conference...so you can start there.

Look at the 3 Dakota schools in the MVFC.

The private schools and Indiana State wouldn't want them and the Dakotas got their gang back together in the Summit anyways.
12-08-2017 04:08 PM
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Post: #43
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 04:08 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 03:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 10:55 AM)el_norte Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 01:44 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Not only are power conference schools fearful of scheduling home-and-home series with schools in leagues such as the MVC, but future opportunities even to be bought (a guaranteed amount of money) for a road game could be greatly reduced.

The Big Ten has announced it will go to a 20-game conference schedule (from the current 18) next season. The ACC is expected to do so the following season. The other three power-five conferences could follow suit.

That means less quality games for Valley schools — and less of a chance to get a win to pad an NCAA tourney resume.

"Every coach in our league is in agreement and we know where this is headed. We have to expand," said Southern Illinois coach Barry Hinson. "We have to go to 20 conference games.

"I don't know who that is. I don't know who the best fit is. I'm excited about Valpo in our league. I think they add to our league. It was a great decision by our conference, but I think you need to add two more teams."

When the MVC added Valpo last spring, Elgin said a presidents-led committee would continue to look at expansion this school year.

"It (expansion) would help us schedule because it's difficult to get games." said Missouri State coach Paul Lusk.

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college...caec3.html

Well, half of the Missouri Valley Football Conference is waiting to join the rest of its conference...so you can start there.

Look at the 3 Dakota schools in the MVFC.

The private schools and Indiana State wouldn't want them and the Dakotas got their gang back together in the Summit anyways.

MVC might talk to Central Arkansas and UALR. MO State would like these teams.
12-08-2017 05:40 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
There's a big impediment to MVC expansion is the public/private, football/nonfootball balance. An 11th school upsets that balance. Twice now a basketball school has left and the football schools allowed them to be replaced by a fellow basketball school.

You could jump to 12 but who is that 12th school and football member going to be? The Dakotas are comfortable together. You'd have to pull in WIU and they don't move the needle much. There are OVC schools like Murray St.

The MVC is probably not going to be a two bid league with any regularity ever again. I think the best plan of action is to stay with 10 and focus on maximizing profits with those 10 when they do have a school that makes a run.
12-08-2017 05:42 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 05:40 PM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 04:08 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 03:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 10:55 AM)el_norte Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 01:44 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Not only are power conference schools fearful of scheduling home-and-home series with schools in leagues such as the MVC, but future opportunities even to be bought (a guaranteed amount of money) for a road game could be greatly reduced.

The Big Ten has announced it will go to a 20-game conference schedule (from the current 18) next season. The ACC is expected to do so the following season. The other three power-five conferences could follow suit.

That means less quality games for Valley schools — and less of a chance to get a win to pad an NCAA tourney resume.

"Every coach in our league is in agreement and we know where this is headed. We have to expand," said Southern Illinois coach Barry Hinson. "We have to go to 20 conference games.

"I don't know who that is. I don't know who the best fit is. I'm excited about Valpo in our league. I think they add to our league. It was a great decision by our conference, but I think you need to add two more teams."

When the MVC added Valpo last spring, Elgin said a presidents-led committee would continue to look at expansion this school year.

"It (expansion) would help us schedule because it's difficult to get games." said Missouri State coach Paul Lusk.

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college...caec3.html

Well, half of the Missouri Valley Football Conference is waiting to join the rest of its conference...so you can start there.

Look at the 3 Dakota schools in the MVFC.

The private schools and Indiana State wouldn't want them and the Dakotas got their gang back together in the Summit anyways.

MVC might talk to Central Arkansas and UALR. MO State would like these teams.

The only Arkansas schools we would want are the Pigs and Arkansas State.
12-08-2017 05:47 PM
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RandomFan Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
Would UT Arlington interest the MVC? They're outside the Valley's footprint, but they have a major airport to fly into.
12-08-2017 06:36 PM
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Post: #47
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 06:36 PM)RandomFan Wrote:  Would UT Arlington interest the MVC? They're outside the Valley's footprint, but they have a major airport to fly into.

MVC already has Dallas Baptist for baseball.
12-08-2017 06:47 PM
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Post: #48
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 05:42 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  There's a big impediment to MVC expansion is the public/private, football/nonfootball balance. An 11th school upsets that balance. Twice now a basketball school has left and the football schools allowed them to be replaced by a fellow basketball school.

You could jump to 12 but who is that 12th school and football member going to be? The Dakotas are comfortable together. You'd have to pull in WIU and they don't move the needle much. There are OVC schools like Murray St.

The MVC is probably not going to be a two bid league with any regularity ever again. I think the best plan of action is to stay with 10 and focus on maximizing profits with those 10 when they do have a school that makes a run.

I don't agree. The MVC has great fan support. They have had lots of powers other than Wichita St. and Creighton. Drake, Bradley and Indiana St. have all made the final 4. Loyola has a title. NIU, Missouri St. and Valpo have all had good NCAA runs in the last 20 years. The other 3 have all had periods when they were strong.
12-08-2017 06:57 PM
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Post: #49
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 03:38 AM)NoDak Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 03:26 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Murray State is good for basketball, but for the MVC to find a quality of school with good men and women's basketball? Omaha and UMKC do not cut it. It weakens their RPI. I would not be surprise that Missouri State might be lobbying for Arkansas Tech to join. Their RPI is better than several D1 schools in basketball. It is not far from Russellville to Springfield. It is just a few hours bus ride. It does gets you into another state that is southern. MVC is better well known name than the Southland. Arkansas Tech could slide their football program as number 12 to the MVFC. Arkansas Tech have went to post season with most of their sports.

The MVC considers itself too good for DII moveups. Look to the Southland or the OVC for that.


Missouri State was D2 before they moved up to MVC. Evansville was like D3 when they moved up to join them. They had no issues in the past moving schools up from lower levels, and have paid off for them. I just think it is just hear say by some people that the MVC won't bring D2 schools up. They would take someone who do have better athletics. As it is, before Valpo joined, they added schools that really sucks in sports. As it is, The Wonder Boys/Golden Suns sent their men and Women's basketball teams to post season tournament, their baseball went to post season, their football team went to post season (this tear, they went to the Live United Bowl in Texarkana to play Pittsburg State and lost 48-31. Pittsburg State came back from a 24 points deficit to win.), some of their other sports also went to post season. The 3 key sports in the MVC are men's basketball, women's basketball and baseball. Tech do need to add a few more sports for them to be able to comply to D1 rules. Swimming is one that they could add, track and field, and women's soccer. They have the facilities to have those sports.
12-08-2017 07:05 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 11:22 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 03:26 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Murray State is good for basketball, but for the MVC to find a quality of school with good men and women's basketball? Omaha and UMKC do not cut it. It weakens their RPI. I would not be surprise that Missouri State might be lobbying for Arkansas Tech to join. Their RPI is better than several D1 schools in basketball. It is not far from Russellville to Springfield. It is just a few hours bus ride. It does gets you into another state that is southern. MVC is better well known name than the Southland. Arkansas Tech could slide their football program as number 12 to the MVFC. Arkansas Tech have went to post season with most of their sports.

No quit posting.


I see a fan of Missouri State is afraid that his school would lose to the Wonder Boys.v05-stirthepot
12-08-2017 07:09 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 02:00 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 12:55 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  UIC would jump at the chance to switch from the 30th RPI conference to 7th and add 4 in-state rivals in a New York minute, just like Valparaiso and Milwaukee would’ve done last year when the disparity was just a few spots rather than 23.

7 and 30? Last year Missouri VAlley was #12 and Horizon was #18. And that was with Wichita STate. Oh, that's the number right now. I'm guessing that's an outlier, since losing Wichita State figures to hurt the Valley more than losing Valparaiso hurts the Horizon.

As for the in-state rivals, is there much interaction or rivalry between UIC and Valpo or Loyola? Are rivalries with Southern Illinois and Illinois State something UIC's administration wants to invest in?

I have a hard time seeing the logic in moving from one one-bid league to another, when there's not some strong cultural or geographic reason for the move.

EDIT: But obviously schools move between one-bid leagues all the time, so I'm missing something.

Trust me on this: UIC would take a MVC invite without a second of hesitation. It would accept that MVC invite as fast as a G5 school would take a P5 invite and I’m not being hyperbolic. UIC has been very very very very very VERY disappointed to have been passed over by the MVC twice already. You have to understand that the MVC is the destination conference for a school like UIC. You can point out that there isn’t much difference in terms of on-the-court quality between the MVC and Horizon right now, but there’s just no comparison between the schools in the MVC versus the schools in the Horizon when it comes to commonalities. The MVC schools are all generally very heavy enrollers of Chicago area students, whereas the Horizon schools are much more local by comparison. The longer that UIC is away from Loyola and Valpo, the more it’s going to be damaging that school.
12-08-2017 07:24 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
One other point about UIC: the MVC does represent a symbolic shift in the institution of UIC itself. That is, UIC is transitioning from a commuter school for nearby residents (one where my parents met and father worked at for nearly his entire career, so I know it as well as any place) to more of a traditional residential college drawing from a larger geographic area. The Horizon is largely made up of the former, whereas the MVC is largely made up of the latter. UIC *wants* and *needs* that overall image change as part of its long-term institutional strategy and changing to a conference like the MVC with similarly-situated institutions is a part of that. Now, the MVC doesn’t make or break that strategy, but it’s definitely a piece of it that builds into the overall image of the university.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2017 07:34 PM by Frank the Tank.)
12-08-2017 07:33 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
I don't think UIC is on the list anymore when MVC already have Loyola. They already have way too many Illinois schools in the conference. The sad part is that the good basketball schools are North Dakota State and south Dakota State. Some schools in the MVC are blocking them because of their location and lack of a population.
12-08-2017 07:41 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 07:41 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I don't think UIC is on the list anymore when MVC already have Loyola. They already have way too many Illinois schools in the conference. The sad part is that the good basketball schools are North Dakota State and south Dakota State. Some schools in the MVC are blocking them because of their location and lack of a population.

UIC may have moved down the list because of on-the-court issues, but rest assured that there’s no such thing as “too many Illinois schools” for a league like the MVC or any Midwestern-based league, for that matter. Without Chicago-area students *specifically*, many MVC schools would straight up die. They need as much exposure in front of Chicago people for brand awareness as they can get.
12-08-2017 07:48 PM
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Post: #55
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
It's essentially down to Milwaukee or UIC for #12 team. Neither really move the needle which is why expansion has happened yet.
12-08-2017 08:45 PM
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RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 07:05 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 03:38 AM)NoDak Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 03:26 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Murray State is good for basketball, but for the MVC to find a quality of school with good men and women's basketball? Omaha and UMKC do not cut it. It weakens their RPI. I would not be surprise that Missouri State might be lobbying for Arkansas Tech to join. Their RPI is better than several D1 schools in basketball. It is not far from Russellville to Springfield. It is just a few hours bus ride. It does gets you into another state that is southern. MVC is better well known name than the Southland. Arkansas Tech could slide their football program as number 12 to the MVFC. Arkansas Tech have went to post season with most of their sports.

The MVC considers itself too good for DII moveups. Look to the Southland or the OVC for that.


Missouri State was D2 before they moved up to MVC. Evansville was like D3 when they moved up to join them. They had no issues in the past moving schools up from lower levels, and have paid off for them. I just think it is just hear say by some people that the MVC won't bring D2 schools up. They would take someone who do have better athletics. As it is, before Valpo joined, they added schools that really sucks in sports. As it is, The Wonder Boys/Golden Suns sent their men and Women's basketball teams to post season tournament, their baseball went to post season, their football team went to post season (this tear, they went to the Live United Bowl in Texarkana to play Pittsburg State and lost 48-31. Pittsburg State came back from a 24 points deficit to win.), some of their other sports also went to post season. The 3 key sports in the MVC are men's basketball, women's basketball and baseball. Tech do need to add a few more sports for them to be able to comply to D1 rules. Swimming is one that they could add, track and field, and women's soccer. They have the facilities to have those sports.
Northern Kentucky (a better candidate than UWM/UIC) was also D2 and now seems married to the Horizon. MVC can learn from the NKU mistake and grab ATU before someone else does.
12-08-2017 09:17 PM
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Post: #57
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 07:05 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 03:38 AM)NoDak Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 03:26 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Murray State is good for basketball, but for the MVC to find a quality of school with good men and women's basketball? Omaha and UMKC do not cut it. It weakens their RPI. I would not be surprise that Missouri State might be lobbying for Arkansas Tech to join. Their RPI is better than several D1 schools in basketball. It is not far from Russellville to Springfield. It is just a few hours bus ride. It does gets you into another state that is southern. MVC is better well known name than the Southland. Arkansas Tech could slide their football program as number 12 to the MVFC. Arkansas Tech have went to post season with most of their sports.

The MVC considers itself too good for DII moveups. Look to the Southland or the OVC for that.


Missouri State was D2 before they moved up to MVC. Evansville was like D3 when they moved up to join them. They had no issues in the past moving schools up from lower levels, and have paid off for them. I just think it is just hear say by some people that the MVC won't bring D2 schools up. They would take someone who do have better athletics. As it is, before Valpo joined, they added schools that really sucks in sports. As it is, The Wonder Boys/Golden Suns sent their men and Women's basketball teams to post season tournament, their baseball went to post season, their football team went to post season (this tear, they went to the Live United Bowl in Texarkana to play Pittsburg State and lost 48-31. Pittsburg State came back from a 24 points deficit to win.), some of their other sports also went to post season. The 3 key sports in the MVC are men's basketball, women's basketball and baseball. Tech do need to add a few more sports for them to be able to comply to D1 rules. Swimming is one that they could add, track and field, and women's soccer. They have the facilities to have those sports.

It is very obvious that you do no research, do you know how?

Missouri State left the MIAA in 1981, spent 1 season as a D1 Independent then was in the Association of Mid-Continent Universities for 8 years before joining the Valley. Evansville was in the College Division/D2 until 1977, spent 2 seasons as a D1 Independent then was in the Midwestern City Conference for 15 years before joining the Valley.

Arkansas Tech's success in D2 means nothing for D1. The opposition is 100% different. Tech may have a good RPI now but that does not mean we will have a good RPI in D1 because we are playing a D2 schedule and for basketball that means 22 conference games and only 4 or 6 non-conference games. I'm tired of having to say this; ATU has absolutely no desire for D1. We formed a new conference to cut travel costs and missed class time. Now you want us to join a conference where all the other members are out of state? We are not going to join a conference where we have to send each of our teams to Indiana and Iowa 2 or 3 times a year and where we have to join another conference for the football team that includes at least 1 trip to the Dakotas every year. We would be the smallest public school in the Valley and our facilities are far inferior to those in the MVC and MVFC. The football stadium would be difficult to improve since it has a dorm attached on one side. Tech would need to add at least 4 sports for D1 and, no, there are no facilities currently in place to house those sports. We are happy in D2 and the costs of being an irrelevant D1 school is way too high.
12-08-2017 09:58 PM
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templefootballfan Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
MVC lacked lomg range planing with last expansion move, MVC had 3 fronts that needed to be adressed.
#1, to get multi tourn bids, MVC has to stay a top 10 conf if not higher.
surveing the landscape, BE doesn't expand & A-10 implodes
Dayton & St Lious could fall into thier lap, MVC should be laying the ground work for this to happin

#2, protect your conf tourn, right now St Lious is working out well, improving atten would help

#3, improve TV market & atten, expanding footprint in confined [midwest] area works here

Mill, Murrey St, UMKC would be 1st step, laying groudwork for Dayton & St Lious would be 2nd step
BE expands, plan B,
12-09-2017 03:01 AM
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Fresno St. Alum Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
Ranking the options
1.Murray St.
2.Belmont
3.Milwaukee
4.UIC
5.Omaha
6.NKU
12-09-2017 04:35 AM
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Chuck_A Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 07:24 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 02:00 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 12:55 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  UIC would jump at the chance to switch from the 30th RPI conference to 7th and add 4 in-state rivals in a New York minute, just like Valparaiso and Milwaukee would’ve done last year when the disparity was just a few spots rather than 23.

7 and 30? Last year Missouri VAlley was #12 and Horizon was #18. And that was with Wichita STate. Oh, that's the number right now. I'm guessing that's an outlier, since losing Wichita State figures to hurt the Valley more than losing Valparaiso hurts the Horizon.

As for the in-state rivals, is there much interaction or rivalry between UIC and Valpo or Loyola? Are rivalries with Southern Illinois and Illinois State something UIC's administration wants to invest in?

I have a hard time seeing the logic in moving from one one-bid league to another, when there's not some strong cultural or geographic reason for the move.

EDIT: But obviously schools move between one-bid leagues all the time, so I'm missing something.

Trust me on this: UIC would take a MVC invite without a second of hesitation. It would accept that MVC invite as fast as a G5 school would take a P5 invite and I’m not being hyperbolic. UIC has been very very very very very VERY disappointed to have been passed over by the MVC twice already. You have to understand that the MVC is the destination conference for a school like UIC. You can point out that there isn’t much difference in terms of on-the-court quality between the MVC and Horizon right now, but there’s just no comparison between the schools in the MVC versus the schools in the Horizon when it comes to commonalities. The MVC schools are all generally very heavy enrollers of Chicago area students, whereas the Horizon schools are much more local by comparison. The longer that UIC is away from Loyola and Valpo, the more it’s going to be damaging that school.

Which school would be damaged? UIC, Loyola or Valpo. Could you clarify?

I believed in 2013 and moreso now after this past offseason, that the Valley rejected UIC much like the OVC rejected NKU, thinking that the Norse would dominate the OVC. UIC would not so much with their on the court/field performance, although baseball, softball and men's soccer all won championships in the '16-'17 school year, with men's soccer repeating the feat this past soccer season. IMO, the concern was that if UIC was offered and accepted a Valley invite, they would be, from day one, a major player in the conference. They would be the largest university in the conference with 30,539 students. They would be the only Research I university. The University just broke ground on a new engineering building. There are plans for a new dorm/classroom combo building as well as plans for a new softball stadium, new State-of-the-art soccer field and a new basketball arena. It is known that Loyola was chosen over UIC in 2013 because of the public/private split. Valpo was invited, and rightly so, because of their sustained basketball excellence. Frank mentioned in another post that the Valley needs the Chicago market. As an overall institution & athletics program, LU missed the mark. UIC would be the home run. Just my opinion.
12-09-2017 05:55 AM
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