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Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 11:24 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 11:23 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 10:55 AM)el_norte Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 01:44 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Not only are power conference schools fearful of scheduling home-and-home series with schools in leagues such as the MVC, but future opportunities even to be bought (a guaranteed amount of money) for a road game could be greatly reduced.

The Big Ten has announced it will go to a 20-game conference schedule (from the current 18) next season. The ACC is expected to do so the following season. The other three power-five conferences could follow suit.

That means less quality games for Valley schools — and less of a chance to get a win to pad an NCAA tourney resume.

"Every coach in our league is in agreement and we know where this is headed. We have to expand," said Southern Illinois coach Barry Hinson. "We have to go to 20 conference games.

"I don't know who that is. I don't know who the best fit is. I'm excited about Valpo in our league. I think they add to our league. It was a great decision by our conference, but I think you need to add two more teams."

When the MVC added Valpo last spring, Elgin said a presidents-led committee would continue to look at expansion this school year.

"It (expansion) would help us schedule because it's difficult to get games." said Missouri State coach Paul Lusk.

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college...caec3.html

Well, half of the Missouri Valley Football Conference is waiting to join the rest of its conference...so you can start there.

Yes, why don't the MVC and MVFC get together? From what I can tell, at least the four Dakota schools are comparable in basketball strength to the average MVC BB program (WIU and YSU less so, though). Of course, that would probably kill off the Summit.

Bradley holds too much power in the MVC. Every move since 1991 has been to please them.

Why do they hold such power?
12-08-2017 11:30 AM
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Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
Can the Missouri Valley make a bid for Kent State? They would be a decent enough fit, they dont care about football, and the MAC doesnt need 6 Ohio schools. I think most of the MAC fans would be cool with that.
12-08-2017 11:32 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
Maybe something like this?

MVC
Full members (FB): Illinois State, Indiana State, Missouri State, UND, NDSU, UNI, USD, SDSU, SIU
Full members (NFB): Bradley, Drake, Evansville, Fort Wayne, Loyola Chicago, Omaha, Valparaiso
FB-only affiliates: WIU, YSU

BB schedule: 1 game vs. all 15 opponents + 1 extra game vs. 5 of the 15 opponents (rotating in a 3-year cycle)

Horizon
Full members (NFB): Cleveland State, Detroit, Green Bay, IUPUI, Milwaukee, NKU, Oakland, UIC, WIU, Wright State, YSU

While Denver and ORU go to the WAC, I guess.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2017 12:07 PM by Nerdlinger.)
12-08-2017 11:50 AM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
Kent St. would be an intriguing option for the Valley, IMO. It adds another state,Ohio, and another metro area, Cleveland. Only problem for Kent St. is where to park football.
12-08-2017 11:59 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 11:32 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  Can the Missouri Valley make a bid for Kent State? They would be a decent enough fit, they dont care about football, and the MAC doesnt need 6 Ohio schools. I think most of the MAC fans would be cool with that.

Kent State may not be pulling its own weight, but there's no way they'd voluntarily drop from the MAC to the MVC. Too much money to lose. And the MAC isn't going to kick any of its members out. Even if they did, I would think EMU would be out before KSU.
12-08-2017 12:12 PM
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el_norte Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 11:24 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 11:23 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 10:55 AM)el_norte Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 01:44 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Not only are power conference schools fearful of scheduling home-and-home series with schools in leagues such as the MVC, but future opportunities even to be bought (a guaranteed amount of money) for a road game could be greatly reduced.

The Big Ten has announced it will go to a 20-game conference schedule (from the current 18) next season. The ACC is expected to do so the following season. The other three power-five conferences could follow suit.

That means less quality games for Valley schools — and less of a chance to get a win to pad an NCAA tourney resume.

"Every coach in our league is in agreement and we know where this is headed. We have to expand," said Southern Illinois coach Barry Hinson. "We have to go to 20 conference games.

"I don't know who that is. I don't know who the best fit is. I'm excited about Valpo in our league. I think they add to our league. It was a great decision by our conference, but I think you need to add two more teams."

When the MVC added Valpo last spring, Elgin said a presidents-led committee would continue to look at expansion this school year.

"It (expansion) would help us schedule because it's difficult to get games." said Missouri State coach Paul Lusk.

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college...caec3.html

Well, half of the Missouri Valley Football Conference is waiting to join the rest of its conference...so you can start there.

Yes, why don't the MVC and MVFC get together? From what I can tell, at least the four Dakota schools are comparable in basketball strength to the average MVC BB program (WIU and YSU less so, though). Of course, that would probably kill off the Summit.

Bradley holds too much power in the MVC. Every move since 1991 has been to please them.

The public schools in the conference enroll close to 90,000 students and are located in four different states. I'm sure they can find a way to leverage their power against a single private school with an enrollment of 5,000.

UNI, SIU, MoState, IllSt and InSt are the core of the conference and should determine the conference's fate. They need to take a holistic approach to conference realignment and think long-term here. The MVFC is a dominant football conference. The Missouri Valley basketball conference is a historically strong mid-major conference, but is not what it used to be. Its time to move forward with the merger.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2017 12:17 PM by el_norte.)
12-08-2017 12:14 PM
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freshtop Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
Let's just send Football to the shadow realm that is independence and join the MVC for all other sports.
12-08-2017 12:49 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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Post: #28
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 09:25 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 08:03 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 05:56 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  If their main goal is to increase the number of in-conference games, they don't have to expand to do so. Am I missing something?

Aren't they at 10? They only need 1 to be added to play 20 conference games.

Odd numbers make scheduling a bit awkward. (Someone's always left without a dance partner). But is that enough to justify adding a #12?

And then the question becomes what exactly the Valley is looking for in a #12. In 2013, google has the Valley looking at UIC, Belmont, Oral Roberts and UMKC to replace Creighton, before they brought in Loyola-Chicago and Valparaiso. The logic of adding Chicagoland schools is strong, but is the Valley still in a position to poach the Horizon?

What does a one-bid, 12-team Missouri Valley Conference do for UIC, really?

I suppose that applies to anyone the Valley is considering. Unless you don't like the conference you're in now (the WAC is inherently unstable--UMKC, you're not a fan of Summit League travel to Tulsa, Denver and the Dakotas--Western Illinois, Fort Wayne) what's the big incentive to change leagues?

EDIT: Oh dear. I don't know why I didn't read the article before posting. They're trying to be viable for at-large bids. I don't think there's anyone they can add who makes any difference there. That ship has sailed. There are no top 100 programs available for the Valley to add. (Except maybe NMSU, and the geography there is pretty terrible--the Horizon is at least close to major airports). You could make arguments for why and how a Denver or Grand Canyon *could* use their financial resources to build themselves into a top 100 program, but they don't really need Valley membership to do that.

I thought they were just adding schools to fill dates on the schedule, because no one wants to get on a plane and a bus to play at Drake nonconference.

EDIT 2: I guess that the logical #12, if UIC isn't interested, might be Belmont. Adds Nashville metro to the footprint, adds a little bit of basketball strength. STill driveable from Iowa and Illinois and Missouri.

UIC would jump at the chance to switch from the 30th RPI conference to 7th and add 4 in-state rivals in a New York minute, just like Valparaiso and Milwaukee would’ve done last year when the disparity was just a few spots rather than 23.
12-08-2017 12:55 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 11:30 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 11:24 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 11:23 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 10:55 AM)el_norte Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 01:44 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Not only are power conference schools fearful of scheduling home-and-home series with schools in leagues such as the MVC, but future opportunities even to be bought (a guaranteed amount of money) for a road game could be greatly reduced.

The Big Ten has announced it will go to a 20-game conference schedule (from the current 18) next season. The ACC is expected to do so the following season. The other three power-five conferences could follow suit.

That means less quality games for Valley schools — and less of a chance to get a win to pad an NCAA tourney resume.

"Every coach in our league is in agreement and we know where this is headed. We have to expand," said Southern Illinois coach Barry Hinson. "We have to go to 20 conference games.

Because Brad Bradley
"I don't know who that is. I don't know who the best fit is. I'm excited about Valpo in our league. I think they add to our league. It was a great decision by our conference, but I think you need to add two more teams."

When the MVC added Valpo last spring, Elgin said a presidents-led committee would continue to look at expansion this school year.

"It (expansion) would help us schedule because it's difficult to get games." said Missouri State coach Paul Lusk.

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college...caec3.html

Well, half of the Missouri Valley Football Conference is waiting to join the rest of its conference...so you can start there.

Yes, why don't the MVC and MVFC get together? From what I can tell, at least the four Dakota schools are comparable in basketball strength to the average MVC BB program (WIU and YSU less so, though). Of course, that would probably kill off the Summit.

Bradley holds too much power in the MVC. Every move since 1991 has been to please them.

Why do they hold such power?

Because Brad Bradley of Bradley is in charge.
12-08-2017 01:07 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 11:24 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 11:23 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 10:55 AM)el_norte Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 01:44 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Not only are power conference schools fearful of scheduling home-and-home series with schools in leagues such as the MVC, but future opportunities even to be bought (a guaranteed amount of money) for a road game could be greatly reduced.

The Big Ten has announced it will go to a 20-game conference schedule (from the current 18) next season. The ACC is expected to do so the following season. The other three power-five conferences could follow suit.

That means less quality games for Valley schools — and less of a chance to get a win to pad an NCAA tourney resume.

"Every coach in our league is in agreement and we know where this is headed. We have to expand," said Southern Illinois coach Barry Hinson. "We have to go to 20 conference games.

"I don't know who that is. I don't know who the best fit is. I'm excited about Valpo in our league. I think they add to our league. It was a great decision by our conference, but I think you need to add two more teams."

When the MVC added Valpo last spring, Elgin said a presidents-led committee would continue to look at expansion this school year.

"It (expansion) would help us schedule because it's difficult to get games." said Missouri State coach Paul Lusk.

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college...caec3.html

Well, half of the Missouri Valley Football Conference is waiting to join the rest of its conference...so you can start there.

Yes, why don't the MVC and MVFC get together? From what I can tell, at least the four Dakota schools are comparable in basketball strength to the average MVC BB program (WIU and YSU less so, though). Of course, that would probably kill off the Summit.

Bradley holds too much power in the MVC. Every move since 1991 has been to please them.

MVC expansion must play in Peoria.

They do average more than 9000 to the 11,000 seat Peoria Civic Center.

Which gives them the power as the leader of the private block to block schools that are not to their liking.
12-08-2017 01:25 PM
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Post: #31
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 12:55 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  UIC would jump at the chance to switch from the 30th RPI conference to 7th and add 4 in-state rivals in a New York minute, just like Valparaiso and Milwaukee would’ve done last year when the disparity was just a few spots rather than 23.

7 and 30? Last year Missouri VAlley was #12 and Horizon was #18. And that was with Wichita STate. Oh, that's the number right now. I'm guessing that's an outlier, since losing Wichita State figures to hurt the Valley more than losing Valparaiso hurts the Horizon.

As for the in-state rivals, is there much interaction or rivalry between UIC and Valpo or Loyola? Are rivalries with Southern Illinois and Illinois State something UIC's administration wants to invest in?

I have a hard time seeing the logic in moving from one one-bid league to another, when there's not some strong cultural or geographic reason for the move.

EDIT: But obviously schools move between one-bid leagues all the time, so I'm missing something.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2017 02:01 PM by johnbragg.)
12-08-2017 02:00 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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Post: #32
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 02:00 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 12:55 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  UIC would jump at the chance to switch from the 30th RPI conference to 7th and add 4 in-state rivals in a New York minute, just like Valparaiso and Milwaukee would’ve done last year when the disparity was just a few spots rather than 23.

7 and 30? Last year Missouri VAlley was #12 and Horizon was #18. And that was with Wichita STate. Oh, that's the number right now. I'm guessing that's an outlier, since losing Wichita State figures to hurt the Valley more than losing Valparaiso hurts the Horizon.

As for the in-state rivals, is there much interaction or rivalry between UIC and Valpo or Loyola? Are rivalries with Southern Illinois and Illinois State something UIC's administration wants to invest in?

I have a hard time seeing the logic in moving from one one-bid league to another, when there's not some strong cultural or geographic reason for the move.

EDIT: But obviously schools move between one-bid leagues all the time, so I'm missing something.

It’s a moot point as I think they’ll look south to Murray and Arkansas Tech.
12-08-2017 02:07 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
The Horizon will take IPFW and Robert Morris regardless of what the MVC does.

If the MVC takes UIC or Milwaukee, the Horizon can take SIUE or Lipscomb.

Robert Morris may get an invite to the MVFC along with Murray St, which will get a full MVC offer.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2017 02:44 PM by NoDak.)
12-08-2017 02:43 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 02:43 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The Horizon will take IPFW and Robert Morris regardless of what the MVC does.

If the MVC takes UIC or Milwaukee, the Horizon can take SIUE or Lipscomb.

Robert Morris may get an invite to the MVFC along with Murray St, which will get a full MVC offer.

Robert Morris is not getting an invite to the MVFC. This is one of your silly ideas to get your dream league.
12-08-2017 02:50 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 02:50 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 02:43 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The Horizon will take IPFW and Robert Morris regardless of what the MVC does.

If the MVC takes UIC or Milwaukee, the Horizon can take SIUE or Lipscomb.

Robert Morris may get an invite to the MVFC along with Murray St, which will get a full MVC offer.

Robert Morris is not getting an invite to the MVFC. This is one of your silly ideas to get your dream league.

But if you say something enough times, it will come true, right?
12-08-2017 02:55 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 02:50 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 02:43 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The Horizon will take IPFW and Robert Morris regardless of what the MVC does.

If the MVC takes UIC or Milwaukee, the Horizon can take SIUE or Lipscomb.

Robert Morris may get an invite to the MVFC along with Murray St, which will get a full MVC offer.

Robert Morris is not getting an invite to the MVFC. This is one of your silly ideas to get your dream league.
Mo St needs one MVFC win.

WIU must be scared silly now that the Summit -North has a mbb schedule alliance with the Big Sky-North and should be talking with the OVC.

WIU would have to be replaced by Robert Morris. UND and Murray St already make 12.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2017 03:24 PM by NoDak.)
12-08-2017 03:09 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 03:09 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 02:50 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 02:43 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The Horizon will take IPFW and Robert Morris regardless of what the MVC does.

If the MVC takes UIC or Milwaukee, the Horizon can take SIUE or Lipscomb.

Robert Morris may get an invite to the MVFC along with Murray St, which will get a full MVC offer.

Robert Morris is not getting an invite to the MVFC. This is one of your silly ideas to get your dream league.

WIU must be scared silly now that the Summit -North has a mbb schedule alliance with the Big Sky-North and should be talking with the OVC.

WIU would have to be replaced by Robert Morris. UND and Murray St already make 12.

Why are they supposed to be SCARED? Worst case scenario, they end up in a league with the Dakotas and Idaho. That's a lot of travel, yes, and maybe then they'd move to the OVC.

And the MVFC has bigger problems than replacing Western Illinois--they have to deal with the departures of half the league to the Great Northern project. Don't you even remember the dream?
12-08-2017 03:16 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 03:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 03:09 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 02:50 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 02:43 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The Horizon will take IPFW and Robert Morris regardless of what the MVC does.

If the MVC takes UIC or Milwaukee, the Horizon can take SIUE or Lipscomb.

Robert Morris may get an invite to the MVFC along with Murray St, which will get a full MVC offer.

Robert Morris is not getting an invite to the MVFC. This is one of your silly ideas to get your dream league.

WIU must be scared silly now that the Summit -North has a mbb schedule alliance with the Big Sky-North and should be talking with the OVC.

WIU would have to be replaced by Robert Morris. UND and Murray St already make 12.

Why are they supposed to be SCARED? Worst case scenario, they end up in a league with the Dakotas and Idaho. That's a lot of travel, yes, and maybe then they'd move to the OVC.

And the MVFC has bigger problems than replacing Western Illinois--they have to deal with the departures of half the league to the Great Northern project. Don't you even remember the dream?

The Great Northern Conference has not been announced yet. If the MVFC has the brains of this board, they are in denial that it happens. If they believe it happens, they get Robert Morris too.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2017 03:22 PM by NoDak.)
12-08-2017 03:21 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 12:49 PM)freshtop Wrote:  Let's just send Football to the shadow realm that is independence and join the MVC for all other sports.

Ironically if SLU would have said yes to the MVC back in 2005, then Western Kentucky doesn't upgrade football and joins the MVC.
12-08-2017 03:38 PM
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RE: Southern Illinois Coach: "We have to Expand"
(12-08-2017 02:00 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(12-08-2017 12:55 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  UIC would jump at the chance to switch from the 30th RPI conference to 7th and add 4 in-state rivals in a New York minute, just like Valparaiso and Milwaukee would’ve done last year when the disparity was just a few spots rather than 23.

7 and 30? Last year Missouri VAlley was #12 and Horizon was #18. And that was with Wichita STate. Oh, that's the number right now. I'm guessing that's an outlier, since losing Wichita State figures to hurt the Valley more than losing Valparaiso hurts the Horizon.

As for the in-state rivals, is there much interaction or rivalry between UIC and Valpo or Loyola? Are rivalries with Southern Illinois and Illinois State something UIC's administration wants to invest in?

I have a hard time seeing the logic in moving from one one-bid league to another, when there's not some strong cultural or geographic reason for the move.

EDIT: But obviously schools move between one-bid leagues all the time, so I'm missing something.

MVC is the stronger sports league across the board. Multiple bids in volleyball, baseball, etc. Better television exposure in the region. Better opportunities in MTE events in men's basketball.
12-08-2017 03:42 PM
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