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Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
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Tigersmoke4 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 04:45 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 04:37 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 04:24 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 04:14 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  FBS football independence is becoming a bit more viable. It's nothing against the AAC or UConn, but I don't see the two being a good match for football. Maybe that's because the AAC is a hodge-podge of institutional types, but, I think the conference is too heavily rooted in the south for its northeastern members to identify with each other and the rest of the conference. I mean, when you consider that Navy identifies the southwest as a base for recruiting rather than Temple and UConn, and that's tough. You can't force UConn to play nice with UMass, but, I think UMass would struggle there, too.

I think the talking heads are right on this one. I think UConn should really consider the Big East to protect its basketball program, and let football "figure it out" in an environment where it could probably build a viable schedule from many parts. And, yes, I think UConn's name is big enough that it could get them a bowl tie-in.

I wouldn't be surprised if UConn's been trying to figure it out. I think there's been an issue of what happens with all of that money UConn got from the departing C7 members AND what the rest of the AAC might want from that cut. I used to think the Big East schools would welcome UConn back easily, but with its hands outstretched looking for its money back; I think UConn knows departing will wind up them getting sued for something significant from the AAC, and UConn wanting to keep every dime they've collected. Meaning, no movement.

I don't think the Big East's concern is necessarily about wanting money back from UConn. Instead, it's about what caused the Catholic 7 to eventually split off on their own in the first place: membership instability. They want to *control* their place in conference realignment as opposed to having other leagues control them (which is what happened over the course of over a decade in the poaching of the old Big East). Within the realm of non-FBS Division I conferences, the Big East is THE top dog when it comes to conference realignment power. The Big East is the predator in that environment while others are the prey. As soon as they let back in a school whose true ultimate goal is to join a P5 conference, then that lets back in the instability of having other power conferences ultimately dictate their membership. All of the Big East schools would love to play games on-the-court against UConn in a vacuum, but that instability that would be invited back in is what could (and I think would) hold the Big East back from inviting UConn even if UConn was willing to make the move (and I don't think they're willing, anyway).

AAC CCG---3.385 MILLION (pac12 CCG barely topped that with 3.5-6 million :coffee3:playing in primetime with no competition. The AAC was on at noon against the big12 ccg)
MAC CCG --652K
MWC CCG 624K
CUSA CCG 255K
S BELT CCG 225K

I'm not sure what the AAC championship game ratings have to do with the post. Every FBS school that isn't in a power conference (besides Notre Dame) would take a P5 invite sight unseen. That was my point as to why the Big East wouldn't want to deal with UConn or any other FBS school again (and why the C7 left in the first place).
The point is that you stated that the AAC and NBE contract would probably change, and I agree and that change will be based on ratings and not rankings04-cheers
12-06-2017 05:24 PM
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Post: #42
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 03:52 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 03:44 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  If UConn was in the Big East this year, they would be 10th place. Ahead of only DePaul.

Moving to the Big East is not necessary to right the ship in men's hoops. Hiring a better coach is.

For example, see Geno winning several national titles in the American, which is not a good women's league.

Not necessarily. The Big East is viewed as a major conference, the AAC isn't. The Big East will usually have 5 bids to the tourney, the AAC 2 to 3.
Recruiting is in a major conference is better than trying to recruit in a mid-major conference.

Be realistic.

Only rabid basketball fans which there are not very many of have any concept of "power conference" in basketball. And there is no point in there being a power conference in basketball.

And recruits care about the school/team not the conference. All Uconn needs to do is hire a better coach and actually perform. Everything is just an excuse.
12-06-2017 05:25 PM
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Tigersmoke4 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 04:42 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 04:30 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 03:29 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 03:08 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Interesting comments last night from Seth Greenberg (and also Dick Vitale) during the ESPN telecast of the Syracuse/UConn game.

Seth Greenberg: “If I was a UConn fan I’d do everything I can to make sure that UConn gets back in the Big East. UConn has got to get back to the Big East where they belong. No offense to the American Athletic conference but the Big East is a GREAT basketball conference."

Kind of odd to see ESPN commentators talk down one of their own properties. I can't remember seeing that before.

FTR, I don't think UConn is coming back to the Big East. 07-coffee3

UConn is between a rock and a hard place. As long as there is even a tiny sliver of hope for a P5 invite down the road, then it simply cannot leave the AAC. P5 membership is based on football and independence simply isn't realistically viable for a school like UConn.

However, the money is simple: the Big East makes more TV money just based on basketball than the AAC (and every other G5 conference) makes on football and basketball *combined*. We can argue all day about whether the Big East would get the same contract again or the AAC will get a better contract in a few years and yada yada yada... but the fact is that the Big East completely CRUSHES the G5 conferences when it comes to TV money, which is essentially the entire crux of the conference realignment game. It says something that schools like DePaul and Seton Hall are making more TV money than schools like UConn outright... and when you consider that those Big East schools aren't having to deal with the costs of FBS football, the revenue/expense/P&L gap is a complete blowout.

I think that if UConn decided to drop FBS football, then they'd clearly want to be in the Big East (as it's simply the most desirable conference for *any* non-FBS Division I basketball school outside of the Ivy League). However, they're not dropping FBS football at any point soon, in which case it needs to do everything it can to do what's best for its FBS football program since that's the reality of today's college sports world. That means staying in the AAC and praying that there's a P5 invite in a few years.
More money combined??! Well let's see.
1.8 million a year from existing tv contract
20+ million a year from current cfp contracted allotment
20+ million a year for being the top g5 conference
4 million from the peach bowl
2.6 million from the liberty bowl
Not including Ncaa credits ?? Millions
Plus the other bowl payouts
I think all of that should total up to an extra 50+ million to split up. Maybe Frank the tank will know exactly since he is so sure that the NBE makes more than all the g5s, but if all of that totals up say 54 million that's another 4.5 million a year and that's before the NBE money is added to the pot. I may have some figures wrong so someone please correct me 07-coffee3

I said TV money (which is true). Yes, there are other conference distributions for football as you've noted, but there are also the Big East's own NCAA Tournament distributions that are very high and only split among 10 schools. Regardless, the Big East is earning that all of that revenue without the expense of FBS football. The gap on the profit/loss and ROI is even wider.
It seems as though you were saying that the NBE tv money was more than all the g5s combined monies. I can't speak for the the others but that's not true of the AAC.
12-06-2017 05:26 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 05:24 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  The point is that you stated that the AAC and NBE contract would probably change, and I agree and that change will be based on ratings and not rankings04-cheers

The change is going to be based on how much money is available out there and who's willing to get in a bidding war with Disney. The market's drying up - the upcoming negotiation isn't going to look anything like the 2010-2013 negotiations, so "we did X percent of conference Y's numbers" won't mean a ton.
12-06-2017 05:29 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 05:25 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 03:52 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 03:44 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  If UConn was in the Big East this year, they would be 10th place. Ahead of only DePaul.

Moving to the Big East is not necessary to right the ship in men's hoops. Hiring a better coach is.

For example, see Geno winning several national titles in the American, which is not a good women's league.

Not necessarily. The Big East is viewed as a major conference, the AAC isn't. The Big East will usually have 5 bids to the tourney, the AAC 2 to 3.
Recruiting is in a major conference is better than trying to recruit in a mid-major conference.

Be realistic.

Only rabid basketball fans which there are not very many of have any concept of "power conference" in basketball. And there is no point in there being a power conference in basketball.

And recruits care about the school/team not the conference. All Uconn needs to do is hire a better coach and actually perform. Everything is just an excuse.
I agree with you on this. However I do believe that UCONN and Memphis picked a bad time to go through their slumps (poor coaching hires), and it's really has hurt the conference perception 04-cheers
12-06-2017 05:29 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 05:25 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  Be realistic.

Only rabid basketball fans which there are not very many of have any concept of "power conference" in basketball. And there is no point in there being a power conference in basketball.

And recruits care about the school/team not the conference. All Uconn needs to do is hire a better coach and actually perform. Everything is just an excuse.


You're saying conference affiliation has no impact on recruiting?
12-06-2017 05:31 PM
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Tigersmoke4 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 05:29 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 05:24 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  The point is that you stated that the AAC and NBE contract would probably change, and I agree and that change will be based on ratings and not rankings04-cheers

The change is going to be based on how much money is available out there and who's willing to get in a bidding war with Disney. The market's drying up - the upcoming negotiation isn't going to look anything like the 2010-2013 negotiations, so "we did X percent of conference Y's numbers" won't mean a ton.

We don't know that to be true yet. Who knows what NBC could have up it's sleeve if the numbers are their 07-coffee3
12-06-2017 05:32 PM
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TrojanCampaign Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 05:04 PM)YNot Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 04:49 PM)Bogg Wrote:  It's not even really about money - the Big East money and the money UConn would get from Fox and SNY as a football indy would be close enough to revenue-neutral versus the all-in payout from the AAC, in all likelihood. It's about keeping your flagship programs, the ones that keep UConn a nationally-relevant brand, in the best possible home and it's about not letting the fan base wither on the vine playing in a geographically inaccessible league. The NYC connection matters, the tournament at MSG matters, and the recruiting bump matters.

UConn needs to prioritize its strengths, not its weaknesses.

I think UConn could make football independence work. They already have UMass and BC series with games in November, without being independent. They could probably get Army more often than not in the latter half of the season. BYU and Liberty would be occasional late season options too. Plenty of B1G and ACC teams to schedule. Played Missouri on October 28 this year, again, without being independent.

Would the football team's prestige take a hit more than it does right now with a poor showing in the AAC?



Like others have said Uconn does not really stand to gain much from moving aside from pleasing a few message board posters by leaving. The best option is to just wait and see how much the AAC gets on it's new contract and push for the conference to poach another school with good basketball.
12-06-2017 05:34 PM
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Post: #49
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 05:32 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  We don't know that to be true yet. Who knows what NBC could have up it's sleeve if the numbers are their 07-coffee3

Nobody knows that the numbers actually are there, though, rather than being an result of the "whatever's on ESPN" effect. Assuming viewership is entirely portable going from ESPN2 to NBCSN is a MASSIVE risk, and not one that I'd expect a network to wager nine figures a year on.
12-06-2017 05:38 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
I really like sharing the AAC with UConn. Thus their happiness is a strong concern of mine. I still think we made a mistake in inviting one of the two western private schools over UMass (I don't like writing negativity on members like that, but still my opinion). I'd like to think that UMass would have provided more of a home feeling for the Huskies in addition to a member less than 100 miles away.

But beyond that, I still think it would be very wise for us to extend two more non-football invitations --- Dayton and VCU, the two best programs (both on-court and attendance) within the Atlantic 10. I realize that neither is actually next door to Storrs, CT, but I think they would provide additional interest. I have discovered first hand the GREAT atmosphere that VCU has and they are fully committed to hoops success. I think Dayton provides similar.

I also hate to note the cannibalism of realignment --- but I think that the A-10 and AAC are considered by many to be the two tweener league. We hit the A-10 like that and they are wounded. Who knows, maybe even go to 16 and really New England tailor it for the Huskies to add the best program there this year (Rhode Island) along with offering UMass with a Notre Dame type deal for Minutemen football.
12-06-2017 05:39 PM
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Tigersmoke4 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 05:38 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 05:32 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  We don't know that to be true yet. Who knows what NBC could have up it's sleeve if the numbers are their 07-coffee3

Nobody knows that the numbers actually are there, though, rather than being an result of the "whatever's on ESPN" effect. Assuming viewership is entirely portable going from ESPN2 to NBCSN is a MASSIVE risk, and not one that I'd expect a network to wager nine figures a year on.

Yes...The numbers are there, that's one of the good things about factual raw data, sorry 01-wingedeagle03-shhhh
12-06-2017 05:52 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 05:52 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 05:38 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 05:32 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  We don't know that to be true yet. Who knows what NBC could have up it's sleeve if the numbers are their 07-coffee3

Nobody knows that the numbers actually are there, though, rather than being an result of the "whatever's on ESPN" effect. Assuming viewership is entirely portable going from ESPN2 to NBCSN is a MASSIVE risk, and not one that I'd expect a network to wager nine figures a year on.

Yes...The numbers are there, that's one of the good things about factual raw data, sorry 01-wingedeagle03-shhhh

You're not following. Again, you're assuming those viewers are portable across networks. That's a position that's dubious at best. The "exposure" offered by ESPN is supposedly one of the best things the conference has going for it, and it's exactly the argument that networks are going to use against the conference. What do the AAC's numbers look like for the games contacted to CBS Sports Net? THAT'S what's going to tell you how portable the ratings are.
12-06-2017 05:58 PM
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Tigersmoke4 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 05:58 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 05:52 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 05:38 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 05:32 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  We don't know that to be true yet. Who knows what NBC could have up it's sleeve if the numbers are their 07-coffee3

Nobody knows that the numbers actually are there, though, rather than being an result of the "whatever's on ESPN" effect. Assuming viewership is entirely portable going from ESPN2 to NBCSN is a MASSIVE risk, and not one that I'd expect a network to wager nine figures a year on.

Yes...The numbers are there, that's one of the good things about factual raw data, sorry 01-wingedeagle03-shhhh

You're not following. Again, you're assuming those viewers are portable across networks. That's a position that's dubious at best. The "exposure" offered by ESPN is supposedly one of the best things the conference has going for it, and it's exactly the argument that networks are going to use against the conference. What do the AAC's numbers look like for the games contacted to CBS Sports Net? THAT'S what's going to tell you how portable the ratings are.

Sports media watch. Com
12-06-2017 06:10 PM
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Post: #54
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 05:17 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 04:41 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 03:29 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  UConn is between a rock and a hard place. As long as there is even a tiny sliver of hope for a P5 invite down the road, then it simply cannot leave the AAC. P5 membership is based on football and independence simply isn't realistically viable for a school like UConn.

Who says UConn football would have to go independent? They could be football-only in the AAC or basketball-only in the Big East.

No way would the AAC kick UConn football out. We already have the precedent of Wichita State being no football.

Yeah, I'm biased, I'd love to have UConn back in the Big East. But I also know that they have to put their football interests first. I think they could, and still play Big East hoops.

Anyone is drunk off your ass they really think UConn would be football only in the AAC. Why would the AAC want their worst program? The reason why Wichita St is allowed in being no football is their basketball program is really good. Same with Navy Football. The AAC would absolutely 100% kick UConn out. You can dream all you want about the AAC allowing UConn to remain for football- but there's no chance in hell of that ever happening.

UConn football is more valuable than Wichita State basketball. UConn is the only flagship in the AAC, and is in the NYC area market.

No way would the AAC try to kick UConn football out. To say they would is just puffed up pride and ego talking. 07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2017 06:22 PM by quo vadis.)
12-06-2017 06:22 PM
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Post: #55
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 06:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  UConn football is more valuable than Wichita State basketball. UConn is the only flagship in the AAC, and is in the NYC area market.

No way would the AAC try to kick UConn football out. To say they would is just puffed up pride and ego talking. 07-coffee3

This is college sports. Don't discount pride and ego.

Pride and ego prevented the Aresco League from accepting Boise State's terms for membership, which would have meant an unquestioned separation between the AAC and the G4. (Also set the precedent for BYU football-only membership keeping THEIR separate television contract.)

Pride and ego was what led Texas to keep the Big 12 alive rather than join a more lucrative PAC-16.

Pride and ego are why Notre Dame is still independent.

Pride and ego are why half of lower-FBS upgraded in the last 30 years.

Sports fandom, and the cultivation and harvesting of money based on sports fandom, is a fundamentally non-rational enterprise. Don't expect decision-makers to be doing Mr Spock impressions.
12-06-2017 06:33 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 06:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 06:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  UConn football is more valuable than Wichita State basketball. UConn is the only flagship in the AAC, and is in the NYC area market.

No way would the AAC try to kick UConn football out. To say they would is just puffed up pride and ego talking. 07-coffee3

This is college sports. Don't discount pride and ego.

Pride and ego prevented the Aresco League from accepting Boise State's terms for membership, which would have meant an unquestioned separation between the AAC and the G4. (Also set the precedent for BYU football-only membership keeping THEIR separate television contract.)

Pride and ego was what led Texas to keep the Big 12 alive rather than join a more lucrative PAC-16.

Pride and ego are why Notre Dame is still independent.

Pride and ego are why half of lower-FBS upgraded in the last 30 years.

Sports fandom, and the cultivation and harvesting of money based on sports fandom, is a fundamentally non-rational enterprise. Don't expect decision-makers to be doing Mr Spock impressions.

The AAC is fine for basketball we need to be better.
12-06-2017 06:46 PM
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Huskies12 Offline
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RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
UConn has been recruiting better than the Jim Calhoun years, so maybe it is coaching.
12-06-2017 06:48 PM
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Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
UConn will not leave as long as they still think they have a shot a a p5 conference. Preferably the ACC. And for the football program. Our football program wasn't this awful when we arrived at the aac. Another issue is husky fans really only care about cincy and maybe Memphis is im basketball.now i agree that we need a new coach..its obvious lol but No matter how good smu or wsu gets it won't be the same a cuse, gtown, or nova. Also no one in the UConn fan base has any interest in the football teams that are in our conference besides usf and cincy and maybe temple. Like when cuse game to the rent even tho we were having a bad year we still got 29-31,000 out of 40,000 compared to 18-20,000 for other aac teams. Our woman's team will will dominate no matter what conference they are in lol.


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(This post was last modified: 12-06-2017 07:03 PM by Huskypride.)
12-06-2017 06:57 PM
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Post: #59
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
(12-06-2017 04:51 PM)YNot Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 04:30 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  More money combined??! Well let's see.
1.8 million a year from existing tv contract
20+ million a year from current cfp contracted allotment
20+ million a year for being the top g5 conference
4 million from the peach bowl
2.6 million from the liberty bowl
Not including Ncaa credits ?? Millions
Plus the other bowl payouts
I think all of that should total up to an extra 50+ million to split up. Maybe Frank the tank will know exactly since he is so sure that the NBE makes more than all the g5s, but if all of that totals up say 54 million that's another 4.5 million a year and that's before the NBE money is added to the pot. I may have some figures wrong so someone please correct me 07-coffee3

Big East gets $4M per school per year just from the TV deal.

If the AAC really gets $50M from all that, that's = $4.167M per school. And that's a best-case scenario for the average AAC program. (I realize UConn, Cincy, and USF make more from the exit fees, etc.)

So, may be a little more than the Big East. But, the Big East doesn't have all of the football expenses. It costs a ton of money to send football teams and their entourage to the Peach and Liberty bowls and all the other lower bowls, including Hawaii on Christmas Eve. Schools often don't break even on the bowl expenses versus bowl payouts.

And, what did the analysis look like last year, when the AAC's top team played in the Military Bowl and didn't get the NY6 windfall? Whereas, each Big East school still made $4M.

By 2020, I believe the AAC will get a raise and the Big East will be lucky to keep the status quo. However, it's hard to argue that the average Big East school doesn't have a better TV financial setup right now than the average AAC school.

the Big East TV contract goes past 2020 so i'm pretty sure they will keep the status quo then.
12-06-2017 07:02 PM
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Post: #60
RE: Greenberg: UConn Should Be in Big East
UConn should do nothing before next TV deal. Odds are good AAC will be making more than BE then.
12-06-2017 07:03 PM
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