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trump in utah
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Lush Offline
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trump in utah
this is a piggyback off that other thread, since that sh!t is its usual toxic. but it got me interested in the topic, which like everything else, is news to me.

Quote:President Trump on Monday drastically scaled back two national monuments established in Utah by his Democratic predecessors, the largest reduction of public-lands protection in U.S. history.

Trump’s move to shrink the Bears Ears and Grand Staircase-Escalante national monuments by more than 1.1 million acres and more than 800,000 acres, respectively, immediately sparked an outpouring of praise from conservative lawmakers as well as protests by activists outside the White House and in Utah. The changes plunge the Trump administration into uncharted legal territory, as no president has sought to modify monuments established under the 1906 Antiquities Act in more than half a century.

His decision removes about 85 percent of the designation of Bears Ears and nearly 46 percent of that for Grand Staircase-Escalante, land that potentially could now be leased for energy exploration or opened for specific activities such as motorized vehicle use.

which obviously upsets me. i know its a big ass country and we could probably use the resources and it is a hefty reduction in public land but what is a good balance between nature and man? it's shitpantsingly awesome country. but no worry

Quote:Gov. Gary R. Herbert ® characterized the action as “an opportunity to push a reset button on these areas” and derided as myth “this idea that somehow there will be some wholesale development” on lands removed from the designation. “There is a lot of scaremongering” about future oil derricks and natural gas wells, he said, but “the only thing that smacks of energy is the uranium” that will now become available near Bears Ears and coal near Grand Staircase-Escalante.

does he like milkshakes?

you know, if you have to do this, you can at least not act like an ass. losing sh!t like this to private interests means something to people even if it is a lot of land they'll never visit. just acknowledge the sacrifice they are making for the greater good (which imo is tenuous) and get back to distracting the world with your hot tweets

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/...8312f96fd9

democracy dies in darkness still is a pretty sweet slogan. i wonder what the siss'anata enquirer's slogan would be? well, whatever it would be, would immediately be overcome by a screen covering ad. so probably some car dealership man's words as scripted by an agency that creates slogans for businesses. i think i could do well in that sort of environment. the only problem i have lately is not being terrible
12-06-2017 10:34 AM
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UofMTigerTim Offline
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Post: #2
RE: trump in utah
This is why he scaled the land back. The Federal Government owns the largest majority of land in the US particularly the West.

https://www.usgs.gov/news/mapping-public...ted-states
12-06-2017 10:45 AM
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Fitbud Offline
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Post: #3
RE: trump in utah
Yeah it's disappointing. I love the outdoors and it's a shame that people like Trump only care about how much money they can make off the land rather than preserving the land for future generations.

It's all fracked up now. Pun intended.
12-06-2017 10:59 AM
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Lush Offline
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RE: trump in utah
ok, so? imo, you're only going to create more west virginia's if this thing catches fire. north dakota's boom will be runamuck with eventual ghost towns. but at least ghost towns are better than living in war, west virginia or hazard, kentucky. though in hindsight, it looks like they did themselves in. there's probably pictures in the white house of how awesome the country was before the industrial revolution and they made a solemn vow not to let let happen to the east happen to the west. well that is until..
12-06-2017 11:03 AM
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Fitbud Offline
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Post: #5
RE: trump in utah
(12-06-2017 11:03 AM)Lush Wrote:  ok, so? imo, you're only going to create more west virginia's if this thing catches fire. north dakota's boom will be runamuck with eventual ghost towns. but at least ghost towns are better than living in war, west virginia or hazard, kentucky. though in hindsight, it looks like they did themselves in. there's probably pictures in the white house of how awesome the country was before the industrial revolution and they made a solemn vow not to let let happen to the east happen to the west. well that is until..

It doesn't matter to Republicans. They care only about making a quick buck. If the boom ends or the land becomes unlivable, so what, they made their money and they can afford to move on to the next fraking place.
12-06-2017 11:08 AM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #6
RE: trump in utah
(12-06-2017 10:59 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Yeah it's disappointing. I love the outdoors and it's a shame that people like Trump only care about how much money they can make off the land rather than preserving the land for future generations.

It's all fracked up now. Pun intended.

Then you should be happy with this because it now allows recreational access to these lands.
12-06-2017 11:43 AM
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Post: #7
RE: trump in utah
(12-06-2017 11:43 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 10:59 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Yeah it's disappointing. I love the outdoors and it's a shame that people like Trump only care about how much money they can make off the land rather than preserving the land for future generations.

It's all fracked up now. Pun intended.

Then you should be happy with this because it now allows recreational access to these lands.

The idea was to lock it up so that only well to do people or extreme outdoorsmen could use it, almost all of whom are white.

Basically the Obama administration was trying to make good parts of Utah economically unviable, to empty out "flyover" country, ignoring the people who actually live in Utah. This was done without any congressional approval, just Obama dictating to the "deplorables."
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2017 11:53 AM by bullet.)
12-06-2017 11:52 AM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #8
RE: trump in utah
(12-06-2017 11:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 11:43 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 10:59 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Yeah it's disappointing. I love the outdoors and it's a shame that people like Trump only care about how much money they can make off the land rather than preserving the land for future generations.

It's all fracked up now. Pun intended.

Then you should be happy with this because it now allows recreational access to these lands.

The idea was to lock it up so that only well to do people or extreme outdoorsmen could use it, almost all of whom are white.

Basically the Obama administration was trying to make good parts of Utah economically unviable, to empty out "flyover" country, ignoring the people who actually live in Utah. This was done without any congressional approval, just Obama dictating to the "deplorables."

To be fair Bill Clinton shares the blame in this case because one of the two areas targeted for reduction was made a monument by him.

But your point stands because the area surrounding the Grand Staircase-Escalante has been devastated economically since the 1996 proclamation.
12-06-2017 11:59 AM
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Lush Offline
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Post: #9
RE: trump in utah
(12-06-2017 11:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 11:43 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 10:59 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Yeah it's disappointing. I love the outdoors and it's a shame that people like Trump only care about how much money they can make off the land rather than preserving the land for future generations.

It's all fracked up now. Pun intended.

Then you should be happy with this because it now allows recreational access to these lands.

The idea was to lock it up so that only well to do people or extreme outdoorsmen could use it, almost all of whom are white.

Basically the Obama administration was trying to make good parts of Utah economically unviable, to empty out "flyover" country, ignoring the people who actually live in Utah. This was done without any congressional approval, just Obama dictating to the "deplorables."

could you help me out with the bolded? the general public wasn't able to avail themselves of land? i'm pretty sure i've been hiking in the staircase
12-07-2017 10:36 AM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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Post: #10
RE: trump in utah
Lush - This sentence is incorrect

"The changes plunge the Trump administration into uncharted legal territory, as no president has sought to modify monuments established under the 1906 Antiquities Act in more than half a century."

It's the first time that a president has *REDUCED* monuments but other presidents have grown them.
12-07-2017 10:45 AM
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Fitbud Offline
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Post: #11
RE: trump in utah
(12-06-2017 11:43 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 10:59 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Yeah it's disappointing. I love the outdoors and it's a shame that people like Trump only care about how much money they can make off the land rather than preserving the land for future generations.

It's all fracked up now. Pun intended.

Then you should be happy with this because it now allows recreational access to these lands.

I would be for that provided that the land is not stripped. I'm sure there could be a dual solution to this don't you?
12-07-2017 10:53 AM
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Lush Offline
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RE: trump in utah
(12-07-2017 10:45 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Lush - This sentence is incorrect

"The changes plunge the Trump administration into uncharted legal territory, as no president has sought to modify monuments established under the 1906 Antiquities Act in more than half a century."

It's the first time that a president has *REDUCED* monuments but other presidents have grown them.

man, i'm having a hard time trying to understand this. are you saying because private individuals can't this land is the problem?
12-07-2017 11:04 AM
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Post: #13
RE: trump in utah
(12-07-2017 10:36 AM)Lush Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 11:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 11:43 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 10:59 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Yeah it's disappointing. I love the outdoors and it's a shame that people like Trump only care about how much money they can make off the land rather than preserving the land for future generations.

It's all fracked up now. Pun intended.

Then you should be happy with this because it now allows recreational access to these lands.

The idea was to lock it up so that only well to do people or extreme outdoorsmen could use it, almost all of whom are white.

Basically the Obama administration was trying to make good parts of Utah economically unviable, to empty out "flyover" country, ignoring the people who actually live in Utah. This was done without any congressional approval, just Obama dictating to the "deplorables."

could you help me out with the bolded? the general public wasn't able to avail themselves of land? i'm pretty sure i've been hiking in the staircase

They are making it more difficult to access. So unless you are a serious hiker, its pretty much cut off.
12-07-2017 11:11 AM
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Lush Offline
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Post: #14
RE: trump in utah
(12-07-2017 11:11 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(12-07-2017 10:36 AM)Lush Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 11:52 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 11:43 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 10:59 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Yeah it's disappointing. I love the outdoors and it's a shame that people like Trump only care about how much money they can make off the land rather than preserving the land for future generations.

It's all fracked up now. Pun intended.

Then you should be happy with this because it now allows recreational access to these lands.

The idea was to lock it up so that only well to do people or extreme outdoorsmen could use it, almost all of whom are white.

Basically the Obama administration was trying to make good parts of Utah economically unviable, to empty out "flyover" country, ignoring the people who actually live in Utah. This was done without any congressional approval, just Obama dictating to the "deplorables."

could you help me out with the bolded? the general public wasn't able to avail themselves of land? i'm pretty sure i've been hiking in the staircase

They are making it more difficult to access. So unless you are a serious hiker, its pretty much cut off.

he government buying up land for the public is fine with me. more land that i can count on. you should know that you don't have to be all that serious of a hiker to explore. you don't have to backcountry camp for a week to have a rewarding experience. i'm sure you feel my sentiments and i understand you feel otherwise since it is the logical economic solution, but perhaps we should consume less to begin with. things especially energy, should cost more. we'd be more conscious of consumption all the while buying time figure out what we're going to do when we've run out of ways to keep this world running. just ripping open the earth because it's there is like looking for a ham sandwich in a trash can

look what's become of lake mead (i believe) with their epic drought. pages of history open before your eyes
12-07-2017 11:27 AM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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Post: #15
RE: trump in utah
(12-07-2017 11:04 AM)Lush Wrote:  
(12-07-2017 10:45 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Lush - This sentence is incorrect

"The changes plunge the Trump administration into uncharted legal territory, as no president has sought to modify monuments established under the 1906 Antiquities Act in more than half a century."

It's the first time that a president has *REDUCED* monuments but other presidents have grown them.

man, i'm having a hard time trying to understand this. are you saying because private individuals can't this land is the problem?

Never mind me... I missed the "in half a century part"
12-07-2017 11:51 AM
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Lush Offline
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Post: #16
RE: trump in utah
it appears you and i cowboy have a neighborly difference of opinion
12-07-2017 01:18 PM
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