I want no part of either of these conferences, it makes zero sense for JMU to move up into one of them. If they really do consolidate, that could be appealing, but we would be wise to wait for the fallout.

http://www.sunherald.com/sports/college/...05609.html

CUSA fans seem to really hate each other and complain about other teams all the time. And yet they also seem to be frustratingly stubborn about their conference and can't get a real sense of what they really are: an irrelevant, geographically misaligned athletic conference.

Look, I understand the concern but honestly our continual hesitation has cost us. And will continue to cost us. Maybe if we had moved up several years ago we would have dominated CUSA and would be positioned for next in line for AAC. But at this rate we'll end up waiting around hoping scraps fall down to us so we can play with the F_Us and Billy Bob State 10 years from now.

Don't any of you see how we compare to most of these schools? The AAC needs to see us head to head with these poorly supported schools. I compare this to Coach Houston's situation. He's an amazing coach, perhaps has limitless potential. Is he getting these SEC head coaching jobs? No. Despite how dominant he is at the FCS level he has yet to prove he can succeed at the FBS level so until then his options will be limited. We need to prove we can flourish at the FBS level in order to get where we need to be. The longer we wait, the more opportunity other schools have to get into line ahead of us. Waiting around also means we leave our fate up to other schools to decide. I don't know about you, but it sickens me that schools like Coastal Carolina and Marshall can determine where JMU can and can't play.

Why the h#ll do we always need to be a follower? Why can't we be a leader?

Trying to go FBS in hopes of one day landing in the AAC is a fool’s errand.

(12-06-2017 11:13 AM)2Buck Wrote:  Look, I understand the concern but honestly our continual hesitation has cost us. And will continue to cost us. Maybe if we had moved up several years ago we would have dominated CUSA and would be positioned for next in line for AAC. But at this rate we'll end up waiting around hoping scraps fall down to us so we can play with the F_Us and Billy Bob State 10 years from now.

Don't any of you see how we compare to most of these schools? The AAC needs to see us head to head with these poorly supported schools. I compare this to Coach Houston's situation. He's an amazing coach, perhaps has limitless potential. Is he getting these SEC head coaching jobs? No. Despite how dominant he is at the FCS level he has yet to prove he can succeed at the FBS level so until then his options will be limited. We need to prove we can flourish at the FBS level in order to get where we need to be. The longer we wait, the more opportunity other schools have to get into line ahead of us. Waiting around also means we leave our fate up to other schools to decide. I don't know about you, but it sickens me that schools like Coastal Carolina and Marshall can determine where JMU can and can't play.

Why the h#ll do we always need to be a follower? Why can't we be a leader?

What would you like JMU to do?

Agree or not, JMU decided the cons of joining the Sun Belt outweighed the pros. That ship has sailed.

An Indy move would be a disaster.

CUSA, as shown by this article, is not in a position to add more schools. There's not enough money to feed more mouths. They'd likely prefer to lose some schools. Unless something has changed, when I spoke to someone high up in athletics at JMU last year he indicated that JMU would accept a CUSA invite if it was offered, despite it not being an ideal fit.

So we're left having to wait. There's really nothing we can do until some shuffling happens. You could say JMU is in this position due to their own mistakes, and you would be right, but I blame Rose's inability to consider a move when CUSA a reportedly was willing to take us and ODU together. Now I think we're making the most of our situation until another opportunity arises.

NORTH: JMU, Liberty, Charlotte, ODU, App. State, Coastal, Marshall
EAST: GA Southern, GA St, Mid TN, UAB, W KY, FIU, FL Atl

SOUTH: AR State, LA Tech, LA-Monroe, Southern MS, S Alabama, Troy
WEST: NM St, TX St, N TX, Rice, UTEP, UTSA, LA

I think it's far more likely that they remain as they are for football and hoops, and realign the non-revenue sports along geographic lines. No TV deals, no bowl affiliations, and no real money to argue about in the olympic sports. Much more practical and feasible than trying to blow everything up. Solves a big part of the travel problem, but without the headache.

But let's say all these schools can figure out a way to agree (and get their TV partners and bowl affiliates to agree) to split the baby along geographic lines for all sports. Either way, we're spectating (dare I say monitoring), and I don't expect us to find a seat at the FBS table under any scenario. The current FBS schools will act first to protect the interests of their current conference mates, and I wouldn't hold my breath expecting anyone in the SBC to be advocating for us under any circumstance.

(12-06-2017 01:33 PM)Bill Wrote:  NORTH: JMU, Liberty, Charlotte, ODU, App. State, Coastal, Marshall
EAST: GA Southern, GA St, Mid TN, UAB, W KY, FIU, FL Atl

SOUTH: AR State, LA Tech, LA-Monroe, Southern MS, S Alabama, Troy
WEST: NM St, TX St, N TX, Rice, UTEP, UTSA, LA

Liberty is on the verge of not being a possibility. They have games scheduled 10 years out and pushing for more. They'd never be able to change all those contracts. This is the fear I have as an independent status for us. Unless you sign a bunch of lame deals, switch from indy to a conference could be an insurmountable challenge.

(12-06-2017 01:40 PM)91Alum Wrote:  ...Either way, we're spectating (dare I say monitoring), and I don't expect us to find a seat at the FBS table under any scenario. The current FBS schools will act first to protect the interests of their current conference mates, and I wouldn't hold my breath expecting anyone in the SBC to be advocating for us under any circumstance.

Nah, if these schools are in such a dire financial situation that they're willing to blow up their failing conferences and start over, they're not going to put the interests of Louisiana Monroe, Louisiana Tech, or UTEP ahead of their own interests just because they were misplaced conference mates in the old failing conference.

This article is on point. Give it another year or two and conferences like CUSA/Sunbelt are going to implode rather quickly. Most non-P5 conferences are already getting shafted on media deals they were promised. They will literally have no other choice but to become regional (or die). As ticket sales dwindle and conference-wide media contracts go away, programs who are already in the red will have to shutter their programs or find opponents who are closer. If you can cut a $3-4 million travel budget in half, administrators will force it to happen.

(12-06-2017 01:33 PM)Bill Wrote:  NORTH: JMU, Liberty, Charlotte, ODU, App. State, Coastal, Marshall
EAST: GA Southern, GA St, Mid TN, UAB, W KY, FIU, FL Atl

SOUTH: AR State, LA Tech, LA-Monroe, Southern MS, S Alabama, Troy
WEST: NM St, TX St, N TX, Rice, UTEP, UTSA, LA

This ... and then, a 4 team conference playoff with North vs. East; South vs. West (or some combination) and then the two winners play for the conference championship, presumably to some lame bowl game. But, the geography and the excitement of a playoff would be appealing.

(12-06-2017 02:12 PM)jmufan2008 Wrote:  This article is on point. Give it another year or two and conferences like CUSA/Sunbelt are going to implode rather quickly. Most non-P5 conferences are already getting shafted on media deals they were promised. They will literally have no other choice but to become regional (or die). As ticket sales dwindle and conference-wide media contracts go away, programs who are already in the red will have to shutter their programs or find opponents who are closer. If you can cut a $3-4 million travel budget in half, administrators will force it to happen.

The Belt never had a big media deal so we don't miss it. The Belt is already a very regional conference.

This is a CUSA problem..not a Belt problem.

(12-06-2017 03:07 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 02:12 PM)jmufan2008 Wrote:  This article is on point. Give it another year or two and conferences like CUSA/Sunbelt are going to implode rather quickly. Most non-P5 conferences are already getting shafted on media deals they were promised. They will literally have no other choice but to become regional (or die). As ticket sales dwindle and conference-wide media contracts go away, programs who are already in the red will have to shutter their programs or find opponents who are closer. If you can cut a $3-4 million travel budget in half, administrators will force it to happen.

The Belt never had a big media deal so we don't miss it. The Belt is already a very regional conference.

This is a CUSA problem..not a Belt problem.

Agree, especially when dispensing of NMSU and even more so, Idaho.

(12-06-2017 12:44 PM)bridgeforthduke Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 11:13 AM)2Buck Wrote:  Look, I understand the concern but honestly our continual hesitation has cost us. And will continue to cost us. Maybe if we had moved up several years ago we would have dominated CUSA and would be positioned for next in line for AAC. But at this rate we'll end up waiting around hoping scraps fall down to us so we can play with the F_Us and Billy Bob State 10 years from now.

Don't any of you see how we compare to most of these schools? The AAC needs to see us head to head with these poorly supported schools. I compare this to Coach Houston's situation. He's an amazing coach, perhaps has limitless potential. Is he getting these SEC head coaching jobs? No. Despite how dominant he is at the FCS level he has yet to prove he can succeed at the FBS level so until then his options will be limited. We need to prove we can flourish at the FBS level in order to get where we need to be. The longer we wait, the more opportunity other schools have to get into line ahead of us. Waiting around also means we leave our fate up to other schools to decide. I don't know about you, but it sickens me that schools like Coastal Carolina and Marshall can determine where JMU can and can't play.

Why the h#ll do we always need to be a follower? Why can't we be a leader?

What would you like JMU to do?

Agree or not, JMU decided the cons of joining the Sun Belt outweighed the pros. That ship has sailed.

An Indy move would be a disaster.

CUSA, as shown by this article, is not in a position to add more schools. There's not enough money to feed more mouths. They'd likely prefer to lose some schools. Unless something has changed, when I spoke to someone high up in athletics at JMU last year he indicated that JMU would accept a CUSA invite if it was offered, despite it not being an ideal fit.

So we're left having to wait. There's really nothing we can do until some shuffling happens. You could say JMU is in this position due to their own mistakes, and you would be right, but I blame Rose's inability to consider a move when CUSA a reportedly was willing to take us and ODU together. Now I think we're making the most of our situation until another opportunity arises.

What I want is JMU to aggressively and decisively pursue FBS. Without that being a clearly and publicly stated goal I have no idea where they truly stand. Perhaps a few years ago the pendulum was swinging towards FBS but my fear is this unprecedented run of success will cause some to back-peddle. There is a difference between "let's wait until things are perfect" and "let's make this happen".

The former is kicking the can down the road indefinitely, passively sitting back until others come and get you. The latter is being committed to make it happen by proactively pursing engagement and alignment with your desired peers, and rallying your fanbase to drive growth and financial support. I'm not advocating going independent, but we can express the desire to move up without a conference invite. I don't think anyone would think us desperate if we stated something like the vision below. In fact, I think at this point most people familiar with JMU would expect it. They could start up new alumni outreach and funding campaigns.

"JMU is committed to playing football at the next level. Until an advantageous conference alignment presents itself, we will continue focusing our energy and resources into JMU's ascent among nationally-respected athletic and academic institutions."

My outsider perception is to some degree JMU recognized they screwed up with CUSA, and perhaps would have made a move to the MAC if UMass didn't bail (though MAC would be even less desirable to me than the Sun Belt). But it didn't happen and those "ideal" scenarios may never happen again. In order for JMU to progress we are going to have to recognize there will be times where we have to hold our noses and push through the necessary growing pains.

This run has been amazing, but it will end. As all programs do (even Alabama) we will go through another down cycle before coming out stronger. I'd rather our next down cycle be playing through entry-level G5 teams to get our legs in FBS, than go through yet another cycle of playing at Norfolk State and losing to Patriot League team in the first round of the playoffs (if we even make the playoffs).

Conferences will shuffle again. There will be an expanded FBS playoff. The top FBS schools will separate themselves even further from FCS, relegating it to maybe even a 4th tier. Schools that can't match the Ohio State/Alabama arms race, like Northwestern, Boston College, Purdue, and Wake Forest, may decide they want to drop down with the AAC and Mountain West to form a new tier that distances themselves from the UL Monroes and F_Us.

Whatever happens, we're better served being in the mix by kicking the butts of lower G5 teams and influencing our own future, instead of waiting 10 years for the leftovers like Coastal Carolina and Central Michigan to "call us". In fact by time we get the call it will probably be Kennesaw State and Eastern Kentucky calling us.

(12-06-2017 11:13 AM)2Buck Wrote:  Look, I understand the concern but honestly our continual hesitation has cost us. And will continue to cost us. Maybe if we had moved up several years ago we would have dominated CUSA and would be positioned for next in line for AAC. But at this rate we'll end up waiting around hoping scraps fall down to us so we can play with the F_Us and Billy Bob State 10 years from now.

Don't any of you see how we compare to most of these schools? The AAC needs to see us head to head with these poorly supported schools. I compare this to Coach Houston's situation. He's an amazing coach, perhaps has limitless potential. Is he getting these SEC head coaching jobs? No. Despite how dominant he is at the FCS level he has yet to prove he can succeed at the FBS level so until then his options will be limited. We need to prove we can flourish at the FBS level in order to get where we need to be. The longer we wait, the more opportunity other schools have to get into line ahead of us. Waiting around also means we leave our fate up to other schools to decide. I don't know about you, but it sickens me that schools like Coastal Carolina and Marshall can determine where JMU can and can't play.

Why the h#ll do we always need to be a follower? Why can't we be a leader?

I agree with this one million percent!

(12-06-2017 01:33 PM)Bill Wrote:  NORTH: JMU, Liberty, Charlotte, ODU, App. State, Coastal, Marshall
EAST: GA Southern, GA St, Mid TN, UAB, W KY, FIU, FL Atl

SOUTH: AR State, LA Tech, LA-Monroe, Southern MS, S Alabama, Troy
WEST: NM St, TX St, N TX, Rice, UTEP, UTSA, LA

Way too humongous. Plus, all the power is in the upper half. The bottom half is horrible.

I think the thing to remember in all of this is that you need a date to the dance, and other than the Sun Belt offer I haven't heard anything concrete in the way of FBS conference offers to JMU.

(12-06-2017 05:44 PM)2Buck Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:44 PM)bridgeforthduke Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 11:13 AM)2Buck Wrote:  Look, I understand the concern but honestly our continual hesitation has cost us. And will continue to cost us. Maybe if we had moved up several years ago we would have dominated CUSA and would be positioned for next in line for AAC. But at this rate we'll end up waiting around hoping scraps fall down to us so we can play with the F_Us and Billy Bob State 10 years from now.

Don't any of you see how we compare to most of these schools? The AAC needs to see us head to head with these poorly supported schools. I compare this to Coach Houston's situation. He's an amazing coach, perhaps has limitless potential. Is he getting these SEC head coaching jobs? No. Despite how dominant he is at the FCS level he has yet to prove he can succeed at the FBS level so until then his options will be limited. We need to prove we can flourish at the FBS level in order to get where we need to be. The longer we wait, the more opportunity other schools have to get into line ahead of us. Waiting around also means we leave our fate up to other schools to decide. I don't know about you, but it sickens me that schools like Coastal Carolina and Marshall can determine where JMU can and can't play.

Why the h#ll do we always need to be a follower? Why can't we be a leader?

What would you like JMU to do?

Agree or not, JMU decided the cons of joining the Sun Belt outweighed the pros. That ship has sailed.

An Indy move would be a disaster.

CUSA, as shown by this article, is not in a position to add more schools. There's not enough money to feed more mouths. They'd likely prefer to lose some schools. Unless something has changed, when I spoke to someone high up in athletics at JMU last year he indicated that JMU would accept a CUSA invite if it was offered, despite it not being an ideal fit.

So we're left having to wait. There's really nothing we can do until some shuffling happens. You could say JMU is in this position due to their own mistakes, and you would be right, but I blame Rose's inability to consider a move when CUSA a reportedly was willing to take us and ODU together. Now I think we're making the most of our situation until another opportunity arises.

What I want is JMU to aggressively and decisively pursue FBS. Without that being a clearly and publicly stated goal I have no idea where they truly stand. Perhaps a few years ago the pendulum was swinging towards FBS but my fear is this unprecedented run of success will cause some to back-peddle. There is a difference between "let's wait until things are perfect" and "let's make this happen".

The former is kicking the can down the road indefinitely, passively sitting back until others come and get you. The latter is being committed to make it happen by proactively pursing engagement and alignment with your desired peers, and rallying your fanbase to drive growth and financial support. I'm not advocating going independent, but we can express the desire to move up without a conference invite. I don't think anyone would think us desperate if we stated something like the vision below. In fact, I think at this point most people familiar with JMU would expect it. They could start up new alumni outreach and funding campaigns.

"JMU is committed to playing football at the next level. Until an advantageous conference alignment presents itself, we will continue focusing our energy and resources into JMU's ascent among nationally-respected athletic and academic institutions."

My outsider perception is to some degree JMU recognized they screwed up with CUSA, and perhaps would have made a move to the MAC if UMass didn't bail (though MAC would be even less desirable to me than the Sun Belt). But it didn't happen and those "ideal" scenarios may never happen again. In order for JMU to progress we are going to have to recognize there will be times where we have to hold our noses and push through the necessary growing pains.

This run has been amazing, but it will end. As all programs do (even Alabama) we will go through another down cycle before coming out stronger. I'd rather our next down cycle be playing through entry-level G5 teams to get our legs in FBS, than go through yet another cycle of playing at Norfolk State and losing to Patriot League team in the first round of the playoffs (if we even make the playoffs).

Conferences will shuffle again. There will be an expanded FBS playoff. The top FBS schools will separate themselves even further from FCS, relegating it to maybe even a 4th tier. Schools that can't match the Ohio State/Alabama arms race, like Northwestern, Boston College, Purdue, and Wake Forest, may decide they want to drop down with the AAC and Mountain West to form a new tier that distances themselves from the UL Monroes and F_Us.

Whatever happens, we're better served being in the mix by kicking the butts of lower G5 teams and influencing our own future, instead of waiting 10 years for the leftovers like Coastal Carolina and Central Michigan to "call us". In fact by time we get the call it will probably be Kennesaw State and Eastern Kentucky calling us.

Again, I agree one million percent. Liberty did what it needed to do to get to FBS. Of course, that involved paying a few million bucks and everyone knows how some people at JMU know we can't even afford lunch.

Liberty made their intentions known, set aside the resources to achieve it and went balls to the wall to get there. And they made it and are now setting new goals.

I just don't see the benefit to FBS. What do you want from it? A bowl game? A chance to host a P5 game? Games on TV? The ability to join in the football conversations around the water cooler?

If it's a bowl game, I can't say that's unreasonable, but I sure think I prefer this system. If you're halfway decent, you make the playoffs, which is at least one more game. If you're good, you still get a lame game with poor attendance. Look how successful App St was and still got a pathetic game.
If it's the chance to host a P5 game, ok, we can do that. It sure would cost a lot more money, but if you want to lose to MD at home, go ahead.
Games on TV? I think we can see that the TV money is drying up, and we couldn't even get on TV against ECU.
Water cooler conversations? I don't hear a lot of people talking about "oh, that ODU-Liberty game was a barnburner." Unfortunately, all the attention goes to the P5 teams, and G5 just looks like the worst of both worlds, where almost everyone's an also-ran and there's no chance at any glory.

And I personally keep coming back to this question - if a JMU grad wanted an FBS school, why didn't they go to Tech or UVA?

(12-07-2017 12:03 AM)94computerguy Wrote:  I just don't see the benefit to FBS. What do you want from it? A bowl game? A chance to host a P5 game? Games on TV? The ability to join in the football conversations around the water cooler?

Recognition, plain and simple. When people ask where I went to school and I say "JMU" and they grin and ask, "What is that?" it kinda' makes me feel bad. When people see me wearing my JMU cap in the grocery store and shake my hand and tell me they know all about JMU and its killer football program, I feel great.

We are currently in between those two extremes, probably much closer to the former in my neck o' da' woods (Texas), but more and more people recognize JMU. It isn't because of our great D-Hall experience or our communications department. It's because of sports, most notably football.