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Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
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DefCONNOne Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
(12-14-2017 12:33 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(12-14-2017 12:15 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  
(12-14-2017 12:08 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(12-14-2017 12:03 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  
(12-14-2017 10:53 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Do this:

All P5 champs that are in the top 12 of the playoff ranking. That way the #17 down year champs don't foul up the deal.

The best UNBEATEN G5. If you win all your games you deserve a shot. No further autobids for unbeatens so you don't incentivize scheduling down in noncon.

At large after that.

Spoken like the loyal P5 apologist you are. Well done loyal P5 minion, well done. 04-clap2

Nice ad hominem rather than an argument. Do you always attack the messenger rather than the message?

Back to the argument at hand:
Do you think the team with two losses and the 85th ranked schedule deserves a bid over a potential one loss runner up from a P5 who played a top 30 schedule? Or what about a 2 loss non-champ that beat three top 15 teams?

When you trot out garbage prerequisites for keeping the G5 on the "plantation", then that's the response you'll get.

When you advocate for the top-rated G5 champ without prerequisites, such as being undefeated and only undefeated, making this possible 8-team playoff, then I'll have an actual substantive response.

Nice victim signalling though. Do they teach that at Baylor?


Another personal attack with no justification for it. Are you trying to look insecure?

1- I prefer unbeaten due to extreme differences in SOS. It's simply a different week to week grind injury wise and you can see it at Utah, TCU, and even BYU who is playing what amounts to a P5 schedule since going independent.

2- With that said I would be willing to adjust the G5 requirement to any in the top 12 or top 15 like I did for the P5 champs and keep whichever number even with the P5 champ req. A 1-Loss team from the G5 that scheduled up and got some quality wins would belong. A team that lost a game playing a 100+ ranked SOS likely wouldn't have that argument.

3- I want the best deserving teams in. If you lose twice as a G5 it's hard to argue you deserve it more than a 2 loss nonchamp who played a gauntlet of a schedule. It's also hard for a 3 loss champ to argue as well.

Still playing the victim card, I see.

Now, I get it, you desperately want those of us in the G5 to stay on the "plantation" and not raise a stink about our 2nd-class citizenship. Except we won't, and you know we won't. Which brings us to your prerequisite that the G5's only way to get in the "playoff" is to be undefeated and ONLY undefeated. Even then, under your ridiculous plan, the G5 isn't even guaranteed an automatic spot. Even you know the G5 would never go for that, hence your proposal.

You can drop the charade about wanting the best teams in, as well. We all know the "best teams" is code for the P5 and ONLY the P5.
12-14-2017 02:43 PM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #62
Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
(12-14-2017 02:43 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  
(12-14-2017 12:33 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(12-14-2017 12:15 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  
(12-14-2017 12:08 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(12-14-2017 12:03 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  Spoken like the loyal P5 apologist you are. Well done loyal P5 minion, well done. 04-clap2

Nice ad hominem rather than an argument. Do you always attack the messenger rather than the message?

Back to the argument at hand:
Do you think the team with two losses and the 85th ranked schedule deserves a bid over a potential one loss runner up from a P5 who played a top 30 schedule? Or what about a 2 loss non-champ that beat three top 15 teams?

When you trot out garbage prerequisites for keeping the G5 on the "plantation", then that's the response you'll get.

When you advocate for the top-rated G5 champ without prerequisites, such as being undefeated and only undefeated, making this possible 8-team playoff, then I'll have an actual substantive response.

Nice victim signalling though. Do they teach that at Baylor?


Another personal attack with no justification for it. Are you trying to look insecure?

1- I prefer unbeaten due to extreme differences in SOS. It's simply a different week to week grind injury wise and you can see it at Utah, TCU, and even BYU who is playing what amounts to a P5 schedule since going independent.

2- With that said I would be willing to adjust the G5 requirement to any in the top 12 or top 15 like I did for the P5 champs and keep whichever number even with the P5 champ req. A 1-Loss team from the G5 that scheduled up and got some quality wins would belong. A team that lost a game playing a 100+ ranked SOS likely wouldn't have that argument.

3- I want the best deserving teams in. If you lose twice as a G5 it's hard to argue you deserve it more than a 2 loss nonchamp who played a gauntlet of a schedule. It's also hard for a 3 loss champ to argue as well.

Still playing the victim card, I see.

Now, I get it, you desperately want those of us in the G5 to stay on the "plantation" and not raise a stink about our 2nd-class citizenship. Except we won't, and you know we won't. Which brings us to your prerequisite that the G5's only way to get in the "playoff" is to be undefeated and ONLY undefeated. Even then, under your ridiculous plan, the G5 isn't even guaranteed an automatic spot. Even you know the G5 would never go for that, hence your proposal.

You can drop the charade about wanting the best teams in, as well. We all know the "best teams" is code for the P5 and ONLY the P5.


1- I never want anyone to be denied a shot but realistically I think the politics at play will end up with a setup you won't ever be happy with. My ideal scenario is a flexible bracket that adjusts annually to teams with legit gripes based on set criteria. Won't ever happen. Just like I will be shocked if more than one G5 accommodation is made even if I personally want more than that.

Example: 2004 would have seen USC, OU, Auburn, Utah, and Boise in my preferred model. 2008 would have had eight teams that included Utah. 2005 and 2002 would have been a two team affair as you had a clear #1 and #2. 2010 Probably would have ended up with Oregon, Auburn, TCU.



2- I just made an accommodation for non-unbeatens. Nice reading comprehension bud.

3- All P5 champs and the top G5 champ if they are top 12 or 15, whichever ends up being the better number.

After that at-large with a strongly phrased bias in selection to help a second G5 that meets certain criteria get in. (unbeaten, 1 loss but scheduled up). The ideal case for this would be a 2010 Boise that lost once but had proven a lot in noncon but might be left out since TCU was unbeaten for example.

That may be as good as the political situation will allow. The networks and P5 execs will fight against going that far, and fight even harder going beyond that.

My preferred model is unlikely to ever happen or even be considered.

My realistic preference is what I outlined above.

What is YOUR preferred realistic option?
12-14-2017 03:08 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
(12-14-2017 02:43 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  
(12-14-2017 12:33 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(12-14-2017 12:15 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  
(12-14-2017 12:08 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(12-14-2017 12:03 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  Spoken like the loyal P5 apologist you are. Well done loyal P5 minion, well done. 04-clap2

Nice ad hominem rather than an argument. Do you always attack the messenger rather than the message?

Back to the argument at hand:
Do you think the team with two losses and the 85th ranked schedule deserves a bid over a potential one loss runner up from a P5 who played a top 30 schedule? Or what about a 2 loss non-champ that beat three top 15 teams?

When you trot out garbage prerequisites for keeping the G5 on the "plantation", then that's the response you'll get.

When you advocate for the top-rated G5 champ without prerequisites, such as being undefeated and only undefeated, making this possible 8-team playoff, then I'll have an actual substantive response.

Nice victim signalling though. Do they teach that at Baylor?


Another personal attack with no justification for it. Are you trying to look insecure?

1- I prefer unbeaten due to extreme differences in SOS. It's simply a different week to week grind injury wise and you can see it at Utah, TCU, and even BYU who is playing what amounts to a P5 schedule since going independent.

2- With that said I would be willing to adjust the G5 requirement to any in the top 12 or top 15 like I did for the P5 champs and keep whichever number even with the P5 champ req. A 1-Loss team from the G5 that scheduled up and got some quality wins would belong. A team that lost a game playing a 100+ ranked SOS likely wouldn't have that argument.

3- I want the best deserving teams in. If you lose twice as a G5 it's hard to argue you deserve it more than a 2 loss nonchamp who played a gauntlet of a schedule. It's also hard for a 3 loss champ to argue as well.

Still playing the victim card, I see.

Now, I get it, you desperately want those of us in the G5 to stay on the "plantation" and not raise a stink about our 2nd-class citizenship. Except we won't, and you know we won't. Which brings us to your prerequisite that the G5's only way to get in the "playoff" is to be undefeated and ONLY undefeated. Even then, under your ridiculous plan, the G5 isn't even guaranteed an automatic spot. Even you know the G5 would never go for that, hence your proposal.

You can drop the charade about wanting the best teams in, as well. We all know the "best teams" is code for the P5 and ONLY the P5.

1. People can talk about various scenarios of a playoff without intending to victimize the G5.

2. You have attacked 1845 Bear here to pursue your personal beef with the way college football has been taken over and manipulated by the networks. I call that displaced aggression.

3. You are stating that 1845 Bear is playing victim. I found that hilarious since your whole slant on this is from the standpoint of victim with UConn having been thus far left out. Where I went to school we call that projection.

4. Let the thread be about the OP and not your feelings.

Have a nice day! JR
12-14-2017 04:07 PM
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JHS55 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
The networks simply have too much control, the article says that if a UCF is good enough to win a natty it won’t matter because the powers that set up current playoffs won’t allow it because they can’t make as much money, hmmm, even teams within the playoff conferences are in danger of being deamed not worthy enough for the networks to play in the playoffs, they tell the committee to rank them 5th or 6th, this is how it works it seems to me, just my feelings...
12-14-2017 04:44 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
(12-14-2017 04:44 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  The networks simply have too much control, the article says that if a UCF is good enough to win a natty it won’t matter because the powers that set up current playoffs won’t allow it because they can’t make as much money, hmmm, even teams within the playoff conferences are in danger of being deamed not worthy enough for the networks to play in the playoffs, they tell the committee to rank them 5th or 6th, this is how it works it seems to me, just my feelings...

That's a good point. E.g., since the day it happened in 2014, many believe that if TCU and Ohio State were in flipped positions, no way would TCU been vaulted over Ohio State by the CFP committee the way Ohio State leaped over TCU.

There's the 10-15 blue bloods at the very top, and then degrees of victimhood that cascade down from there.

And there's hypocrisy. At a lower level on the totem pole, the same AAC fans who yelp outrage about the lack of respect that UCF is getting have in prior years denounced an unbeaten Marshall or somesuch as "not being as good as a two loss AAC champ", etc.

07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 12-14-2017 04:57 PM by quo vadis.)
12-14-2017 04:57 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
(12-14-2017 03:08 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  What is YOUR preferred realistic option?

8 teams. Quarterfinals on New Years' EVe/Day at traditional bowls. 2 bowls "double-host" semifinal games a week-to-ten-days later. National Championship Game goes to the stadium with the highest bid.

Automatic bids for the P5 champions and for the highest-ranked G5 champion. 2 at-large bids.

2 at-large bids provides a very narrow path, which means that one-loss teams are not eliminated, but no one can "clinch" a spot in the regular season.*

I could even imagine the conferences reviving their traditional bowl ties--Big 10 vs Pac 10 in the Rose, SEC in the Sugar, ACC in the Orange, Big 12 in Fiesta or Cotton--as quarterfinals. (When those bowls are semifinals, work out something else.)

* I say no one, but Alabama would have "clinched" a spot in the 8 team field going into the Iron Bowl--they were 11-0 and no one else was undefeated in the P5 except a lightly-regarded Wisconsin, and more importantly they're Nick Saban's Alabama. That's pretty rare, though.
12-14-2017 04:58 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
(12-14-2017 04:57 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-14-2017 04:44 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  The networks simply have too much control, the article says that if a UCF is good enough to win a natty it won’t matter because the powers that set up current playoffs won’t allow it because they can’t make as much money, hmmm, even teams within the playoff conferences are in danger of being deamed not worthy enough for the networks to play in the playoffs, they tell the committee to rank them 5th or 6th, this is how it works it seems to me, just my feelings...

That's a good point. E.g., since the day it happened in 2014, many believe that if TCU and Ohio State were in flipped positions, no way would TCU been vaulted over Ohio State by the CFP committee the way Ohio State leaped over TCU.

There's the 10-15 blue bloods at the very top, and then degrees of victimhood that cascade down from there.

And there's hypocrisy. At a lower level on the totem pole, the same AAC fans who yelp outrage about the lack of respect that UCF is getting have in prior years denounced an unbeaten Marshall or somesuch as "not being as good as a two loss AAC champ", etc.

07-coffee3

A quibble if I may. Substitute the words "national draw" for "blue bloods" and I will wholeheartedly agree with your post. We have some recent brands that might not qualify as a "blue bloods" but which do have national interest that are among those favored by ESPN.
12-14-2017 05:28 PM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #68
Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
Using the following rules and the BCS standings or 2014-2017 simulated BCS standings we get the following 8 team brackets. Are there any selections you guys disagree with?

- All P5 champs in the top 12
- The top G5 champ in the top 12
- At large after that

Simulating 2014-2017 as well as 2010-2013 since the Big East AQ champ was outside the top 15

2010- (Assumes Wisconsin is designated B1G champ)

Top 12 P5 autobids. (ACC and BE champs outside top 12)
Auburn
Oregon
Wisconsin
Oklahoma

Highest G5 Top 12 Autobid
TCU

At-large
Stanford
Ohio St
Arkansas

Just missed:
Michigan St
Boise (Top 10 but not highest G5)
LSU
Missouri

Remaining years in subsequent posts
12-15-2017 11:47 AM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #69
Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
2011-
Top 12 P5 Autobids
LSU
Oklahoma St
Oregon
Wisconsin

Highest Top 12 G5
Boise St

At Large
Alabama
Stanford
Arkansas
12-15-2017 11:48 AM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #70
Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
2012

P5 Champs in top 12
Alabama
FSU
Kansas St
Stanford

Highest G5 Champ in top 12
None (NIU was 15)

At large
ND
Florida
Oregon
UGA
12-15-2017 11:50 AM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #71
Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
2013

P5 Champs in top 12
Michigan St
Auburn
FSU
Stanford
Baylor

Top G5 in Top 12
None (UCF was 15th)

At Large
Alabama
Ohio State
Missouri

Just missed
South Carolina
Oregon
Oklahoma
Clemson
OkSt
AzSt
12-15-2017 11:52 AM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #72
Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
2014
P5 Champs in top 12

Ohio State
Alabama
Florida St
Baylor
Oregon

G5 in top 12
None

At large
TCU (co champ who lost tiebreaker)
Mississippi State
Michigan State

Just missed

Ole Miss
Arizona
Kansas State
GT
UCLA
UGA
Mizzou
AzSt
12-15-2017 11:54 AM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #73
Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
2015

P5 Champs in top 12
Michigan St
Alabama
Clemson
OU
Stanford

G5 Champs in top 12

None. (UH was 15th)

At large

Ohio State
Stanford
Iowa


Just missed
ND
TCU
FSU
UNC
OkSt
Northwestern
Ole Miss
12-15-2017 11:56 AM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #74
Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
2016

P5 Champs in top 12

Ohio St
Alabama
Clemson
OU
Washington

G5 in top 12
Western Michigan

At large
Penn State
Michigan

Just missed

Wisconsin
USC
FSU
Colorado
WVU
OkSt
12-15-2017 11:58 AM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #75
Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
2017

P5 Champs in top 12

Ohio St
UGA
Clemson
OU
USC

Top G5 champ in top 12
UCF

At large

Alabama
Wisconsin


Just missed
Auburn
PSU
Washington
Miami
TCU
ND
12-15-2017 12:00 PM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #76
Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
Based on these rules, which eight team selections do you guys think are incorrect and got it wrong?
12-15-2017 12:01 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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RE: Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
(12-15-2017 12:01 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Based on these rules, which eight team selections do you guys think are incorrect and got it wrong?

As far as I'm concerned, since you went by a rules-based process, the selections are what they are. No one really has a gripe. Got left out? Do better.

EDIT: Your rules screwed Boise STate in 2010. They were conference champ in the top 12. They should be in by the spirit of your rules.
(This post was last modified: 12-15-2017 01:04 PM by johnbragg.)
12-15-2017 01:02 PM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #78
Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
(12-15-2017 01:02 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(12-15-2017 12:01 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Based on these rules, which eight team selections do you guys think are incorrect and got it wrong?

As far as I'm concerned, since you went by a rules-based process, the selections are what they are. No one really has a gripe. Got left out? Do better.

EDIT: Your rules screwed Boise STate in 2010. They were conference champ in the top 12. They should be in by the spirit of your rules.

Boise technically was a cochamp that lost a tiebreaker to #15 Nevada. So the conference champ argument may not apply depending on how it would theoretically be written.
12-15-2017 01:15 PM
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JHS55 Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
The five autonomous conferences already have what they want and doesn’t look like it’s going to change
The five non autonomous FBS conferences will have to go it alone and hope the recruits follow and fans fill up stadiums and will need to break away from the NCAA and be free to make our own rules and hope to get a tv contract that pays $$$
Will it work ?, As long as we have a real playoff, you know, to be played on the gridiron to decide a real college football champion
It would be really fun to watch this new league grow to be on par with the other league
12-15-2017 02:14 PM
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