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Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
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Post: #41
RE: Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
(12-05-2017 11:14 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  Probably whoever the TV people want. I imagine when the contracts come up for renewal, UCF, USF, Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, and UConn will be the favorites.

When the AAC signed its contract, the "A" group as defined in the contract, the most valued schools, were Houston, Cincinnati, Temple and UConn.
12-05-2017 03:00 PM
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Post: #42
RE: Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
(12-05-2017 02:04 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 12:41 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 11:50 PM)leofrog Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 11:32 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  Don’t understand the fascination with CSU, they are very mediocre in the MW, they did get basketball last year for the first time in forever.


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If the Big 12 didn’t have West Virginia, I think going west would be best. A combo of New Mexico/CSU/BYU would be good. Not the best, but would be stable.


Agree with the premise of going west, but you picked 2 schools that traditionally suck in football especially UNM. SDSU, BYU and Boise would bring much more to the table. Add Fresno as a 4th so they all would have travel partners. IMHO the Big 12 is adding no one until someone leaves though.


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You evaluate schools on what they bring if 2-10 not if 10-2. Remember Presidents are the ones who vote, and things like academic standing and prestige matter more than W-L on the football field. The thinking goes, sports ups and downs come and go, but you are stuck associated with the institution for 100 years. Ask yourself do you want your brand associated with Memphis?

Colorado State is part of the west, growing almost twice as rapidly as the south, and already more populous than several southern states (will pass Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, and Louisiana over the next 15-20 years, as well as Indiana and Minnesota). In terms of research dollars there are 3 G5 under consideration who are above KU and ISU: USF, Cincy, and Colorado State. UConn is not far off, behind KU and ISU but ahead of OU.

These are important considerations. Add schools like Rice and Tulane with top admissions, and even BYU and you have almost the entire finalist list. UCF and Houston are much lower but still in the consideration band, as they are at least ahead of oSu.

Admission standards and research level were definitely a "cut factor"

Research:
A = USF, Cincy, CSU, UConn, Rice, Tulane
B = UCF, Houston (not quite making the cut were Temple and New Mexico who are ahead of UCF and Houston)
Admission Standards:
A = Rice, Tulane
B = BYU, UConn (SMU would go here, but cut for overlapping TCU in DFW metro)
the rest get a "C" on admission standards (Memphis and ECU would get "D" ratings)

Everyone else was cut. The next thing you look at is athletics, and more about the funding and ability to grow. Who is hot now is often a factor of coaches, and the good ones get hired away (e.g., Herman, Frost), so you do not rank that as high. The only "Brand" in the bunch is BYU - but they have issues off the field (Baylor situation didn't help them). You could argue UConn Basketball is a brand, but it's football.

That is the list, and that is where it sits. Those are the factor which weigh most heavily on Presidents when they make 100 year decisions. It's a different list than fans have.

Most recent World University Rankings 2017:
Rice 87
Cincinnati, USF 201-250
Colorado St., UConn. 301-350
Houston, Tulane 351-400
UCF wasn't ranked but were around 400 the year before.
12-05-2017 03:11 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
(12-04-2017 08:59 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Of: Houston, SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa rank them by how likely the Big XII would want them.

And also: would CSU, BYU or UNM be of interest?

I stopped reading at Tulane and probably should have at SMU.
12-05-2017 03:23 PM
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ArQ Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
(12-05-2017 02:58 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 07:31 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 05:27 AM)XLance Wrote:  If the Big 12 survives, things might get creative.
Louisville and Cincinnati for 12, adding Houston and Memphis for 14.

Why would Louisville ever leave the ACC?

Well if Notre Dame wanted to join the ACC, ESPN might ask them to move.

If Notre Dame wants to join ACC, the conference will add Notre Dame and another school. In a rare case ACC were to remove one existent member, it would be a small school like Wake Forest or Boston College. Not a power house like Louisville.
12-05-2017 04:11 PM
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HHOOTter Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
What would B the purpose 4 Big 12 Expansion?

REVENUE?
Any AAC school currently at Big 12 level
in terms of revenue? fan support? TV ratings? & following?
NONE

POTENTIAL BIG 12 REVENUE?
Houston?
(As long as Texas is in the Big 12,
Houston will never, ever B a conference mbr)
Memphis, UCF/USF are the ONLY other possiblities

OPEN NEW RECRUITING AREA?
Memphis, UCF/USF

IF Big 12 expanded,
OU/Texas will not go “far” east again.

The “pressure” is on Memphis, UCF/USF
to continue to produce “TCU” type acclaim
They need alot of double digit wins
over the next 5 years
Increased fan support,
Higher solid attendance numbers,
Upgrade & facility improvements

Remember u want in the Big 12?
Show Me the $$$$$$$$$$$$
12-05-2017 04:12 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
UCF and USF as a pair bring the best value.

The Texas schools probably have Houston at the top of their list.

WVU probably wants Cincinnati.

Kansas would vote for UConn (basketball move).

By the time an AAC team gets invited to the Big 12 I imagine it will be a much weaker conference.

It's too bad for the Florida twins that the ACC isn't an option. I think that would be a good place to build their program and it would mean more trips to Florida for the rest of the conference but I imagine that Miami and FSU would have none of it.
12-05-2017 09:57 PM
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Post: #47
RE: Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
The Texas schools have Houston at the bottom of the list. That's one more school to fight against when it comes to attention, recruiting and future students and especially if they come in like gangbusters, like what happened the last time they invited UH to a conference.
12-05-2017 10:07 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
(12-05-2017 10:07 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  The Texas schools have Houston at the bottom of the list. That's one more school to fight against when it comes to attention, recruiting and future students and especially if they come in like gangbusters, like what happened the last time they invited UH to a conference.

I thought the 'Horns were pushing the Cougars because they wanted to preserve a large voting block with Tech, TCU, Baylor, and Houston all owing their allegiance to Austin.
12-05-2017 10:13 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
(12-05-2017 04:12 PM)HHOOTter Wrote:  REVENUE?
Any AAC school currently at Big 12 level
in terms of revenue? fan support? TV ratings? & following?
NONE

POTENTIAL BIG 12 REVENUE?
Houston?
(As long as Texas is in the Big 12,
Houston will never, ever B a conference mbr)
Memphis, UCF/USF are the ONLY other possiblities.

Well, this isn't quite true. With existing income and a Big 12 media deal UConn would've been within the Big 12 school revenue band. However, with cable subscription rates plummeting the money isn't there for additional schools, which is why you saw the Big 12 pro-rata clause functionally forfeited. It is what it is, but UConn fit the profile in everything but geography. It's all moot now, as the networks are in cost-saving mode.
12-05-2017 10:18 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
(12-05-2017 10:13 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 10:07 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  The Texas schools have Houston at the bottom of the list. That's one more school to fight against when it comes to attention, recruiting and future students and especially if they come in like gangbusters, like what happened the last time they invited UH to a conference.

I thought the 'Horns were pushing the Cougars because they wanted to preserve a large voting block with Tech, TCU, Baylor, and Houston all owing their allegiance to Austin.

Perhaps that came to be but conventional logic is that the former SWC powers want nothing to do with UH if they can help it. The theory is UH was brought into the SWC to be slowed down as both the basketball and football programs started exploding on the scene in the late 60's. They needed to be slowed down as UH started recruiting black athletes before them and succeeding because of it.

Regardless of that theory, a significant reason UH didn't get a Big 12 invite is because of reasons like I've mentioned plus UH on the field of play and fan support had taken a nose dive just as the Big 8 and SWC semi-merged.
12-05-2017 10:40 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
(12-04-2017 09:32 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  FSU
Clemson
Arizona
Arizona State

This. It was a pipe dream, but it's who they wanted.
12-05-2017 10:52 PM
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Post: #52
RE: Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
Pretty sure the Big12 just decided they didnt want any AAC schools.
12-06-2017 12:24 AM
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Post: #53
RE: Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
(12-04-2017 08:59 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Of: Houston, SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa rank them by how likely the Big XII would want them.

And also: would CSU, BYU or UNM be of interest?

They didn't want anyone 6 months ago or so so why would they want any of of us now?
12-06-2017 12:26 AM
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Post: #54
RE: Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
(12-05-2017 02:04 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 12:41 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 11:50 PM)leofrog Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 11:32 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  Don’t understand the fascination with CSU, they are very mediocre in the MW, they did get basketball last year for the first time in forever.


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If the Big 12 didn’t have West Virginia, I think going west would be best. A combo of New Mexico/CSU/BYU would be good. Not the best, but would be stable.


Agree with the premise of going west, but you picked 2 schools that traditionally suck in football especially UNM. SDSU, BYU and Boise would bring much more to the table. Add Fresno as a 4th so they all would have travel partners. IMHO the Big 12 is adding no one until someone leaves though.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You evaluate schools on what they bring if 2-10 not if 10-2. Remember Presidents are the ones who vote, and things like academic standing and prestige matter more than W-L on the football field. The thinking goes, sports ups and downs come and go, but you are stuck associated with the institution for 100 years. Ask yourself do you want your brand associated with Memphis?

Colorado State is part of the west, growing almost twice as rapidly as the south, and already more populous than several southern states (will pass Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, and Louisiana over the next 15-20 years, as well as Indiana and Minnesota). In terms of research dollars there are 3 G5 under consideration who are above KU and ISU: USF, Cincy, and Colorado State. UConn is not far off, behind KU and ISU but ahead of OU.

These are important considerations. Add schools like Rice and Tulane with top admissions, and even BYU and you have almost the entire finalist list. UCF and Houston are much lower but still in the consideration band, as they are at least ahead of oSu.

Admission standards and research level were definitely a "cut factor"

Research:
A = USF, Cincy, CSU, UConn, Rice, Tulane
B = UCF, Houston (not quite making the cut were Temple and New Mexico who are ahead of UCF and Houston)
Admission Standards:
A = Rice, Tulane
B = BYU, UConn (SMU would go here, but cut for overlapping TCU in DFW metro)
the rest get a "C" on admission standards (Memphis and ECU would get "D" ratings)

Everyone else was cut. The next thing you look at is athletics, and more about the funding and ability to grow. Who is hot now is often a factor of coaches, and the good ones get hired away (e.g., Herman, Frost), so you do not rank that as high. The only "Brand" in the bunch is BYU - but they have issues off the field (Baylor situation didn't help them). You could argue UConn Basketball is a brand, but it's football.

That is the list, and that is where it sits. Those are the factor which weigh most heavily on Presidents when they make 100 year decisions. It's a different list than fans have.

Used to be that way. No more. Now you evaluate schools on how much money they bring to to the conference. If nobody brings in more than they take--then the expansion conversation pretty much stops dead in its tracks (unless a conference has to expand simply to survive).

The factors you are talking about are all tie breakers after money. If the school isnt a net monetary gain to the conference---it doesn't matter what their academics are. So, to the degree that winning games attracts fans, tv ratings, and TV money--it can effectively outweigh academics to the extent that it is generally required to clear the all important "is there a reason to expand" hurdle. What we have seen of late is that some conferences are willing to overlook some minimal academic warts if they can potentially add to conference treasury. For instance--Louisville getting the nod over UConn. The only reason for that was Louisville football wins more games. 04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2017 12:40 AM by Attackcoog.)
12-06-2017 12:36 AM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
(12-06-2017 12:36 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  conferences are willing to overlook some minimal academic warts if they can potentially add to conference treasury. For instance--Louisville getting the nod over UConn. The only reason for that was Louisville football wins more games. 04-cheers

Well, to be more specific the Louisville add happened because the ACC didn't have a grant of rights in place, so FSU/Clemson was able to force the football school of their choice by making arrangements to leave otherwise.

That being said, agreed - realignment is all about making money. The unfortunate reality though is that it appears ESPN has shut off the money hose due to declining cable subscription rates and is leaning on conferences not to expand (like we saw with the Big 12). I've posted this before, but I kind of expect ESPN's next big cost-saving initiative to be buying a couple of Big 12 schools a la carte using their affiliate conferences and letting the remaining schools form an AAC equivalent in the old Big 12 footprint.
12-06-2017 09:05 AM
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Post: #56
RE: Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
AAC: none. Big 12 wants:
1. Arkansas
2. Nebraska
3. Missouri
4. Clemson
5. Florida St
6. Georgia Tech
12-06-2017 10:39 AM
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Huskies12 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
(12-06-2017 10:39 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  AAC: none. Big 12 wants:
1. Arkansas
2. Nebraska
3. Missouri
4. Clemson
5. Florida St
6. Georgia Tech

Well then the Big 12 can probably kindly go **** itself because none of those schools are joining.
12-06-2017 10:53 AM
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Post: #58
RE: Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
(12-06-2017 10:39 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  AAC: none. Big 12 wants:
1. Arkansas
2. Nebraska
3. Missouri
4. Clemson
5. Florida St
6. Georgia Tech

I want an Aston Martin, doesn't mean I'm gonna get one.

Why would any of those schools leave their big $$$ successful conference for one that might not be around in less that 10 years.....
12-06-2017 11:15 AM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #59
RE: Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
(12-06-2017 10:53 AM)Huskies12 Wrote:  
(12-06-2017 10:39 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  AAC: none. Big 12 wants:
1. Arkansas
2. Nebraska
3. Missouri
4. Clemson
5. Florida St
6. Georgia Tech

Well then the Big 12 can probably kindly go **** itself because none of those schools are joining.

Bottom line--I dont think we are going to see any movement until the major conference TV deals start expiring around 2024. The AAC schools should take off their shoes and get comfortable. They are going to be in the AAC for a while.
12-06-2017 01:49 PM
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Post: #60
RE: Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
(12-05-2017 04:11 PM)ArQ Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 02:58 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 07:31 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 05:27 AM)XLance Wrote:  If the Big 12 survives, things might get creative.
Louisville and Cincinnati for 12, adding Houston and Memphis for 14.

Why would Louisville ever leave the ACC?

Well if Notre Dame wanted to join the ACC, ESPN might ask them to move.

If Notre Dame wants to join ACC, the conference will add Notre Dame and another school. In a rare case ACC were to remove one existent member, it would be a small school like Wake Forest or Boston College. Not a power house like Louisville.

Made me smile. Louisville and powerhouse?

The ACC could have invited Louisville at any time. They chose other schools. Louisville is at best #14 (Wake Forest), but probably #15 on the ACC priority list.
12-06-2017 02:37 PM
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