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Are conference championship games useless?
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EvilVodka Offline
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Post: #1
Are conference championship games useless?
I'm seeing the value of these conference championship games decline every year...this year has been the worst IMO

The committee doesn't seem to value them as much any more. The argument about the 13th data point has been thrown out the window. The 13th data point did not help Ohio State and USC this year, or Penn State last year.

This year we had several useless rematches. USC, UCF, and Oklahoma all had to beat teams again that they had previously beaten. Georgia got a mulligan.

If you had a choice between these conference championship games, or maybe the first round of an 8-team playoff, what would you choose?
12-04-2017 01:49 PM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #2
RE: Are conference championship games useless?
They are made for TV events.
12-04-2017 01:52 PM
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Chappy Offline
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RE: Are conference championship games useless?
Well,I guess they are useful in determining a conference champion. But to the committee? Not that important really.
12-04-2017 01:55 PM
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RUScarlets Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Are conference championship games useless?
TV events, and some times it helps because these mega conferences don't all play each other.

You need to bracket 8 teams after Thanksgiving and do away with them. You can do 4 games between Friday/Saturday second week of December, move Army Navy exclusively up one week along with the Heisman presentation.
12-04-2017 01:57 PM
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msm96wolf Offline
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RE: Are conference championship games useless?
Not really, it meant something for Wisc, Ok, UGA, Auburn, Clemson and Miami. If the Badgers would have won or OSU beaten the Badgers soundly, they would have been in over Bama. The put the four best teams in the CFP. The committee really tries to avoid the Cinderella scenario, thus why there are no auto-bids.
12-04-2017 02:00 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Are conference championship games useless?
3/4 playoff teams won the CCG.
12-04-2017 02:09 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Are conference championship games useless?
Saturday was pretty exciting. SEC, ACC, B12, and B1G championship games all affected the outcome.

However, I do think it is lame and ironic that the past two seasons a team has made the CFP by avoiding the 13th data point.

I'd like to see P4 contraction where the CFP was champs only from the SEC, B1G, PAC, and ACC. And the P4 had 4-team championship tournaments to decide the CFP participants....essentially a 16-team playoff, but controlled by the conferences and keeping all regions engaged in the process through the CFP semi-finals.

SEC
(4)Georgia at (1)Auburn
(3)Alabama at (2)Oklahoma
Championship at Atlanta, Georgia

B1G
(4)Michigan St. at (1)Wisconsin
(3)Penn St. at (2)Ohio St.
Championship at Indianapolis, Indiana

ACC
(4)NC State at (1)Clemson
(3)Notre Dame at (2)Miami
Championship at Charlotte, North Carolina

PAC
(4)Washington at (1)USC
(3)Stanford at (2)TCU
Championship at Santa Clara, California

B1G champ v. PAC champ in Rose Bowl
SEC champ v. ACC champ in Orange or Sugar Bowl

Rose and Orange/Sugar bowl winners play for the national championship.
(This post was last modified: 12-04-2017 02:15 PM by YNot.)
12-04-2017 02:14 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: Are conference championship games useless?
(12-04-2017 02:14 PM)YNot Wrote:  Saturday was pretty exciting. SEC, ACC, B12, and B1G championship games all affected the outcome.

However, I do think it is lame and ironic that the past two seasons a team has made the CFP by avoiding the 13th data point.

I'd like to see P4 contraction where the CFP was champs only from the SEC, B1G, PAC, and ACC. And the P4 had 4-team championship tournaments to decide the CFP participants....essentially a 16-team playoff, but controlled by the conferences and keeping all regions engaged in the process through the CFP semi-finals.

SEC
(4)Georgia at (1)Auburn
(3)Alabama at (2)Oklahoma
Championship at Atlanta, Georgia

B1G
(4)Michigan St. at (1)Wisconsin
(3)Penn St. at (2)Ohio St.
Championship at Indianapolis, Indiana

ACC
(4)NC State at (1)Clemson
(3)Notre Dame at (2)Miami
Championship at Charlotte, North Carolina

PAC
(4)Washington at (1)USC
(3)Stanford at (2)TCU
Championship at Santa Clara, California

B1G champ v. PAC champ in Rose Bowl
SEC champ v. ACC champ in Orange or Sugar Bowl

Rose and Orange/Sugar bowl winners play for the national championship.

It's not a bad idea, but maybe keep the CFP seeding system as is, or at least rotate which conference champs play each other in the CFP semifinals.
(This post was last modified: 12-04-2017 04:35 PM by Nerdlinger.)
12-04-2017 04:28 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Are conference championship games useless?
(12-04-2017 04:28 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 02:14 PM)YNot Wrote:  Saturday was pretty exciting. SEC, ACC, B12, and B1G championship games all affected the outcome.

However, I do think it is lame and ironic that the past two seasons a team has made the CFP by avoiding the 13th data point.

I'd like to see P4 contraction where the CFP was champs only from the SEC, B1G, PAC, and ACC. And the P4 had 4-team championship tournaments to decide the CFP participants....essentially a 16-team playoff, but controlled by the conferences and keeping all regions engaged in the process through the CFP semi-finals.

SEC
(4)Georgia at (1)Auburn
(3)Alabama at (2)Oklahoma
Championship at Atlanta, Georgia

B1G
(4)Michigan St. at (1)Wisconsin
(3)Penn St. at (2)Ohio St.
Championship at Indianapolis, Indiana

ACC
(4)NC State at (1)Clemson
(3)Notre Dame at (2)Miami
Championship at Charlotte, North Carolina

PAC
(4)Washington at (1)USC
(3)Stanford at (2)TCU
Championship at Santa Clara, California

B1G champ v. PAC champ in Rose Bowl
SEC champ v. ACC champ in Orange or Sugar Bowl

Rose and Orange/Sugar bowl winners play for the national championship.

It's not a bad idea, but maybe keep the CFP seeding system as is, or at least rotate which conference champs play each other in the CFP semifinals.

The rankings are subjective - conferences and bowl affiliations are not. It would be similar to the East-West, NFC-AFC and NL-AL systems in major professional sports. Nobody cries foul when the #1 and #2 teams in the "power" rankings are both in the Western Conference or National League. It creates the most national interest and money and isn't based on a subjective beauty contest.
12-04-2017 04:34 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Are conference championship games useless?
(12-04-2017 04:34 PM)YNot Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 04:28 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 02:14 PM)YNot Wrote:  Saturday was pretty exciting. SEC, ACC, B12, and B1G championship games all affected the outcome.

However, I do think it is lame and ironic that the past two seasons a team has made the CFP by avoiding the 13th data point.

I'd like to see P4 contraction where the CFP was champs only from the SEC, B1G, PAC, and ACC. And the P4 had 4-team championship tournaments to decide the CFP participants....essentially a 16-team playoff, but controlled by the conferences and keeping all regions engaged in the process through the CFP semi-finals.

SEC
(4)Georgia at (1)Auburn
(3)Alabama at (2)Oklahoma
Championship at Atlanta, Georgia

B1G
(4)Michigan St. at (1)Wisconsin
(3)Penn St. at (2)Ohio St.
Championship at Indianapolis, Indiana

ACC
(4)NC State at (1)Clemson
(3)Notre Dame at (2)Miami
Championship at Charlotte, North Carolina

PAC
(4)Washington at (1)USC
(3)Stanford at (2)TCU
Championship at Santa Clara, California

B1G champ v. PAC champ in Rose Bowl
SEC champ v. ACC champ in Orange or Sugar Bowl

Rose and Orange/Sugar bowl winners play for the national championship.

It's not a bad idea, but maybe keep the CFP seeding system as is, or at least rotate which conference champs play each other in the CFP semifinals.

The rankings are subjective - conferences and bowl affiliations are not. It would be similar to the East-West, NFC-AFC and NL-AL systems in major professional sports. Nobody cries foul when the #1 and #2 teams in the "power" rankings are both in the Western Conference or National League. It creates the most national interest and money and isn't based on a subjective beauty contest.

OK, but the P4 are effectively on par with one another, as there's no structural dividing line separating them into pairs of 2. So if we ditch the rankings, here's a possible rotation system:

Rose: B10/Pac
Peach: ACC/SEC

Cotton: Pac/SEC
Orange: ACC/B10

Sugar: B10/SEC
Fiesta: ACC/Pac
(This post was last modified: 12-04-2017 04:45 PM by Nerdlinger.)
12-04-2017 04:38 PM
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arkstfan Online
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Post: #11
RE: Are conference championship games useless?
The 13th data point is basically useless. It just creates noise because it pits two teams within the same conference.

There are 220 P5 non-conference games that can be scheduled. 84 of those slots (two per game) went to P5 vs. P5 games (there were 42 total games).

Roughly 62% of non-conference schedules were filled with G5's and FCS schools.

If you instead had say SEC West face Big XII #1, Pac-12 South face Big XII #2, Pac-12 North face Big 10 West, Big 10 East face ACC Atlantic, and ACC Atlantic face SEC East the 13th data point would be extremely useful by linking the inter-conference data better.
12-04-2017 04:41 PM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #12
RE: Are conference championship games useless?
I had a blast on Saturday, started watching at 11AM (CST) and didn't stop watching until almost 12 hours later when the B1G and ACC games ended.

Great day of college football.
12-04-2017 05:22 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Are conference championship games useless?
The Networks want you to think that these games are no longer needed. These games and their revenue belongs solely to the conferences. If they are made to look unneeded, or worse an impediment to top schools, and are dropped the networks get to dole out the revenue from these 4 games as they see fit and they control all three weeks of what would become the 8 team playoff.

Delaney and Sankey know better than to fall for that. The SEC and Big 10 clean up on these games.

So it's not happening.
12-04-2017 05:32 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Are conference championship games useless?
Should we do away with conferences, and rank teams by region like they do in D2?

Northwest would have the top 5 teams are: Washington, Washington State, oregon, Boise State and Utah.

Southwest would be:USC, San Diego State, Fresno State, Stanford and Northern Arizona.
Southeast would be:UCF, Alabama, USF, Georgia and Clemson.
South Plains would be Oklahoma, TCU, Sam Houston State, LSU and UCA.
North Plains would be:North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Iowa State, Iowa and south Dakota.
Midwest:Wisconsin, Ohio State, Toledo, Michigan State, and Michigan.
Northeast:Penn. State, New Hampshire, James madison, Army, Stony Brook.
Mid-Atlantic:Virginia Tech, Appalachian State, NC State, West Virginia, South Carolina.
12-04-2017 05:32 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Are conference championship games useless?
Useless is one thing but a stupid publicity ploy is what they are. Roy Kramer was a genius but the best way to determine a conference champion is through round robin play or close enough (I'm thinking of the Pac-12 and Big Ten for decades on that last one). It also made sense when the Big 12 started, with the core of the Big 8 up north. There was even one conference, the WAC-16, that didn't even have round robin play inside their divisions IIRC.
12-04-2017 05:41 PM
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msm96wolf Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Are conference championship games useless?
(12-04-2017 02:14 PM)YNot Wrote:  Saturday was pretty exciting. SEC, ACC, B12, and B1G championship games all affected the outcome.

However, I do think it is lame and ironic that the past two seasons a team has made the CFP by avoiding the 13th data point.

I'd like to see P4 contraction where the CFP was champs only from the SEC, B1G, PAC, and ACC. And the P4 had 4-team championship tournaments to decide the CFP participants....essentially a 16-team playoff, but controlled by the conferences and keeping all regions engaged in the process through the CFP semi-finals.

SEC
(4)Georgia at (1)Auburn
(3)Alabama at (2)Oklahoma
Championship at Atlanta, Georgia

B1G
(4)Michigan St. at (1)Wisconsin
(3)Penn St. at (2)Ohio St.
Championship at Indianapolis, Indiana

ACC
(4)NC State at (1)Clemson
(3)Notre Dame at (2)Miami
Championship at Charlotte, North Carolina

PAC
(4)Washington at (1)USC
(3)Stanford at (2)TCU
Championship at Santa Clara, California

B1G champ v. PAC champ in Rose Bowl
SEC champ v. ACC champ in Orange or Sugar Bowl

Rose and Orange/Sugar bowl winners play for the national championship.

To say the 13th data point was not used is BS. More than likely if OK lost, OSU and Bama would be in. Wisconsin would be in if won. The 13th data point. OSU would be in if they destroyed Wisconsin. 13 Data point. Data points are not always going to be positive. 03-banghead
12-04-2017 05:57 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Are conference championship games useless?
(12-04-2017 04:38 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 04:34 PM)YNot Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 04:28 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 02:14 PM)YNot Wrote:  Saturday was pretty exciting. SEC, ACC, B12, and B1G championship games all affected the outcome.

However, I do think it is lame and ironic that the past two seasons a team has made the CFP by avoiding the 13th data point.

I'd like to see P4 contraction where the CFP was champs only from the SEC, B1G, PAC, and ACC. And the P4 had 4-team championship tournaments to decide the CFP participants....essentially a 16-team playoff, but controlled by the conferences and keeping all regions engaged in the process through the CFP semi-finals.

SEC
(4)Georgia at (1)Auburn
(3)Alabama at (2)Oklahoma
Championship at Atlanta, Georgia

B1G
(4)Michigan St. at (1)Wisconsin
(3)Penn St. at (2)Ohio St.
Championship at Indianapolis, Indiana

ACC
(4)NC State at (1)Clemson
(3)Notre Dame at (2)Miami
Championship at Charlotte, North Carolina

PAC
(4)Washington at (1)USC
(3)Stanford at (2)TCU
Championship at Santa Clara, California

B1G champ v. PAC champ in Rose Bowl
SEC champ v. ACC champ in Orange or Sugar Bowl

Rose and Orange/Sugar bowl winners play for the national championship.

It's not a bad idea, but maybe keep the CFP seeding system as is, or at least rotate which conference champs play each other in the CFP semifinals.

The rankings are subjective - conferences and bowl affiliations are not. It would be similar to the East-West, NFC-AFC and NL-AL systems in major professional sports. Nobody cries foul when the #1 and #2 teams in the "power" rankings are both in the Western Conference or National League. It creates the most national interest and money and isn't based on a subjective beauty contest.

OK, but the P4 are effectively on par with one another, as there's no structural dividing line separating them into pairs of 2. So if we ditch the rankings, here's a possible rotation system:

Rose: B10/Pac
Peach: ACC/SEC

Cotton: Pac/SEC
Orange: ACC/B10

Sugar: B10/SEC
Fiesta: ACC/Pac

Running with this idea, here's a full 3-year NY6 rotation for a P4 scenario. Semifinals are in bold. In all years, at least one at-large team is from the G4/5/6.

Year 1
Peach: ACC #1 vs. SEC #1
Rose: B10 #1 vs. Pac #1

Orange: At-Large vs. At-Large
Cotton: At-Large vs. At-Large
Fiesta: ACC #2 vs. Pac #2
Sugar: B10 #2 vs. SEC #2

Year 2
Peach: ACC #2 vs. SEC #2
Rose: B10 #2 vs. Pac #2
Orange: ACC #1 vs. B10 #1
Cotton: Pac #1 vs. SEC #1

Fiesta: At-Large vs. At-Large
Sugar: At-Large vs. At-Large

Year 3
Peach: At-Large vs. At-Large
Rose: At-Large vs. At-Large
Orange: ACC #2 vs. B10 #2
Cotton: Pac #2 vs. SEC #2
Fiesta: ACC #1 vs. Pac #1
Sugar: B10 #1 vs. SEC #1
12-04-2017 06:46 PM
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EvilVodka Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Are conference championship games useless?
(12-04-2017 05:57 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 02:14 PM)YNot Wrote:  Saturday was pretty exciting. SEC, ACC, B12, and B1G championship games all affected the outcome.

However, I do think it is lame and ironic that the past two seasons a team has made the CFP by avoiding the 13th data point.

I'd like to see P4 contraction where the CFP was champs only from the SEC, B1G, PAC, and ACC. And the P4 had 4-team championship tournaments to decide the CFP participants....essentially a 16-team playoff, but controlled by the conferences and keeping all regions engaged in the process through the CFP semi-finals.

SEC
(4)Georgia at (1)Auburn
(3)Alabama at (2)Oklahoma
Championship at Atlanta, Georgia

B1G
(4)Michigan St. at (1)Wisconsin
(3)Penn St. at (2)Ohio St.
Championship at Indianapolis, Indiana

ACC
(4)NC State at (1)Clemson
(3)Notre Dame at (2)Miami
Championship at Charlotte, North Carolina

PAC
(4)Washington at (1)USC
(3)Stanford at (2)TCU
Championship at Santa Clara, California

B1G champ v. PAC champ in Rose Bowl
SEC champ v. ACC champ in Orange or Sugar Bowl

Rose and Orange/Sugar bowl winners play for the national championship.

To say the 13th data point was not used is BS. More than likely if OK lost, OSU and Bama would be in. Wisconsin would be in if won. The 13th data point. OSU would be in if they destroyed Wisconsin. 13 Data point. Data points are not always going to be positive. 03-banghead

I don't think you are understanding the idea of the 13th data point...

If Oklahoma didn't play in a Big XII championship game, would they have gotten in? Most likely

Did Alabama need the 13th data point? Did Ohio State last year?
12-04-2017 07:06 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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RE: Are conference championship games useless?
Yes no question.
Except for ESPN of course:)
12-04-2017 07:15 PM
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Post: #20
RE: Are conference championship games useless?
(12-04-2017 05:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I had a blast on Saturday, started watching at 11AM (CST) and didn't stop watching until almost 12 hours later when the B1G and ACC games ended.

Great day of college football.

Agreed. Although I went to the UGA/Auburn game, so I didn't get to see all of the rest, just parts of them.
12-04-2017 07:37 PM
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