(12-04-2017 11:57 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  I liked Mick, but he's wearing thin on me. That little stunt with UNLV was a major deal, IMO. I had no problem with him coming back from UNLV, but I sure hope the University didn't pay for his plane ticket (UNLV had flown him out there on a private charter and when the deal fell apart, they told him to get his own self home...) and the next time he goes out interviewing, I hope he's got his office ready to move. His repeated failures to win against Xavier are an increasing issue and it's only exacerbated by his downplaying of the series (Mick claims this game is "nothing special") and now his outburst against JP Macura.

FWIW, I will note that if he had pulled a "Norman Dale" and hit Macura, we'd not be having this conversation. Mick would have been arrested and fired before the sun had set. So he's rather fortunate that the Xavier coaches "restrained" him because if Macura had called his bluff this whole thread would be moot. Which means that either Mick was prepared to throw away his career or he was merely being an ass and picking a fight that he knew would never happen.

I will also note that in the last couple of days, I have pondered what it means that it was the XAVIER coaching staff that corralled Mick (not Macura... they restrained Mick) and not his own staff. Personally, I think they should have let Mick go and see what would have happened. Barring that, it was the Xavier Police that should have...escorted...Mick off the premises. But Mick's own staff didn't seem all that interested in either protecting their boss or getting him off the floor. Usually when a confrontation happens, it's your own people who pull you away.

It's curious.

I think the staff was hiding behind the grassy knoll. Jeez Jerry.

Someone needs to make a Rick and Morty Cronenberg of Cronin.

I don't have the skin in the game that Cincy fans do but

I like Cronin because he wins and he runs an honest program. An incident here and there because of his passion shouldn't carry that much weight. It would be nice if he would have a deeper run into the NCAA Tournament (more Sweet 16's, and Elite 8 or even better a F4), and almost all Cincy fans would probably be happier.

(12-04-2017 12:19 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  

(12-04-2017 11:57 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  I liked Mick, but he's wearing thin on me. That little stunt with UNLV was a major deal, IMO. I had no problem with him coming back from UNLV, but I sure hope the University didn't pay for his plane ticket (UNLV had flown him out there on a private charter and when the deal fell apart, they told him to get his own self home...) and the next time he goes out interviewing, I hope he's got his office ready to move. His repeated failures to win against Xavier are an increasing issue and it's only exacerbated by his downplaying of the series (Mick claims this game is "nothing special") and now his outburst against JP Macura.

FWIW, I will note that if he had pulled a "Norman Dale" and hit Macura, we'd not be having this conversation. Mick would have been arrested and fired before the sun had set. So he's rather fortunate that the Xavier coaches "restrained" him because if Macura had called his bluff this whole thread would be moot. Which means that either Mick was prepared to throw away his career or he was merely being an ass and picking a fight that he knew would never happen.

I will also note that in the last couple of days, I have pondered what it means that it was the XAVIER coaching staff that corralled Mick (not Macura... they restrained Mick) and not his own staff. Personally, I think they should have let Mick go and see what would have happened. Barring that, it was the Xavier Police that should have...escorted...Mick off the premises. But Mick's own staff didn't seem all that interested in either protecting their boss or getting him off the floor. Usually when a confrontation happens, it's your own people who pull you away.

It's curious.

I think the staff was hiding behind the grassy knoll. Jeez Jerry.

You really don't find it interesting that nobody from the UC staff or players were close enough to Mick to grab his arm and pull him away?

OK. Nothing to see here, I'm moving along.

Cronin is a tough one... he's no superstar but you know what you're gonna get out of him. Everybody should look to UConn and Memphis when assessing the risk of replacing a coach. Do you replace a 7.75 (CB's official Mike Cronin Rating) in hopes of landing a 9 when the downside range is 7.75 to zero? The pot odds aren't good. Pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered. Right now Cincy would be smart in keeping Cronin until Cronin wants to retire.


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I like Cronin. Sometimes it's OK to go 'loco'... let the players know you have their backs.

(12-04-2017 01:15 PM)WstateU Wrote:  I like Cronin. Sometimes it's OK to go 'loco'... let the players know you have their backs.

Love that passion, here is a classic

I get why Cronin was pissed. XU players keep pulling the same **** that lead to the Brawl 6 years ago. Constantly talking **** to the bench...cursing at players and coaches (particularly Macura, but other X players have in the past as well). Mack pretty much lets his guys do as they will and trusts because he is at a small private school that keeps things under wraps nobody will call them on it. Macura's BS is pretty widely known across the Big East.

That said, Mick looked terrible pulling the **** he did. You just got your ass beat, don't make a scene after the game. If you want to bring up Macura's actions bring them up calmly in the press conference after you've talked about the actual game and the performance of your team and their team. Bring it up in context of the brawl and the BS from the X fans you have to deal with in that arena. He looked petty and unprofessional the way he handled it.

Mick's a very good coach, but Mack absolutely has run circles around him in the crosstown shootout. Every single year (even in UC's wins) Mack has come out with a gameplan to jump UC early. This year he ran some great sets to get his bigs the ball against 1 on 1 defense near the rim and they converted every time. That set up X for some looks at 3 and they buried them. By the time UC countered they are down big. Last year was similar but it was at home and UC got the defensive stops they needed to make the run. This year X crushed UC on the glass and dictated the game throughout. Mack treats this game like its the biggest game of the year and his team comes out with a unique plan of attack every time.

(12-04-2017 12:55 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  Cronin is a tough one... he's no superstar but you know what you're gonna get out of him. Everybody should look to UConn and Memphis when assessing the risk of replacing a coach. Do you replace a 7.75 (CB's official Mike Cronin Rating) in hopes of landing a 9 when the downside range is 7.75 to zero? The pot odds aren't good. Pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered. Right now Cincy would be smart in keeping Cronin until Cronin wants to retire.


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Great point, but the UConn (coach retired) and Memphis (coach left for Georgia Tech) analogies aren't comparable. The best example is Pitt and Jamie Dixon. Like Cronin at UC, Dixon started out as an assistant coach and spent 13 seasons at the helm for the Panthers (Cronin is in his 12th year). Overall, he won at a 72% clip at Pitt, winning the Big East a couple times, but bounced out early in the tournament. Pitt was growing weary of Dixon, so he left to go to TCU in 2014. Since that time Pitt has been the pitts, and the TCU program has risen.

(12-04-2017 01:26 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  I get why Cronin was pissed. XU players keep pulling the same **** that lead to the Brawl 6 years ago. Constantly talking **** to the bench...cursing at players and coaches (particularly Macura, but other X players have in the past as well). Mack pretty much lets his guys do as they will and trusts because he is at a small private school that keeps things under wraps nobody will call them on it. Macura's BS is pretty widely known across the Big East.

That said, Mick looked terrible pulling the **** he did. You just got your ass beat, don't make a scene after the game. If you want to bring up Macura's actions bring them up calmly in the press conference after you've talked about the actual game and the performance of your team and their team. Bring it up in context of the brawl and the BS from the X fans you have to deal with in that arena. He looked petty and unprofessional the way he handled it.

Mick's a very good coach, but Mack absolutely has run circles around him in the crosstown shootout. Every single year (even in UC's wins) Mack has come out with a gameplan to jump UC early. This year he ran some great sets to get his bigs the ball against 1 on 1 defense near the rim and they converted every time. That set up X for some looks at 3 and they buried them. By the time UC countered they are down big. Last year was similar but it was at home and UC got the defensive stops they needed to make the run. This year X crushed UC on the glass and dictated the game throughout. Mack treats this game like its the biggest game of the year and his team comes out with a unique plan of attack every time.

Maybe Cronin should start treating this game like it's the biggest game of the year and his team wouldn't lose as often.

(12-04-2017 01:37 PM)Wudizzle Wrote:  

(12-04-2017 01:26 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  I get why Cronin was pissed. XU players keep pulling the same **** that lead to the Brawl 6 years ago. Constantly talking **** to the bench...cursing at players and coaches (particularly Macura, but other X players have in the past as well). Mack pretty much lets his guys do as they will and trusts because he is at a small private school that keeps things under wraps nobody will call them on it. Macura's BS is pretty widely known across the Big East.

That said, Mick looked terrible pulling the **** he did. You just got your ass beat, don't make a scene after the game. If you want to bring up Macura's actions bring them up calmly in the press conference after you've talked about the actual game and the performance of your team and their team. Bring it up in context of the brawl and the BS from the X fans you have to deal with in that arena. He looked petty and unprofessional the way he handled it.

Mick's a very good coach, but Mack absolutely has run circles around him in the crosstown shootout. Every single year (even in UC's wins) Mack has come out with a gameplan to jump UC early. This year he ran some great sets to get his bigs the ball against 1 on 1 defense near the rim and they converted every time. That set up X for some looks at 3 and they buried them. By the time UC countered they are down big. Last year was similar but it was at home and UC got the defensive stops they needed to make the run. This year X crushed UC on the glass and dictated the game throughout. Mack treats this game like its the biggest game of the year and his team comes out with a unique plan of attack every time.

Maybe Cronin should start treating this game like it's the biggest game of the year and his team wouldn't lose as often.

I don't disagree with you. It's a big rivalry with a crazy atmosphere, why not do what Mack does and treat the game as an enormous game. Mack had sets ready to go to attack UC in ways UC didn't expect. His fingerprints were all over the gameplan early and that's where XU has really owned the series over the last decade. They get out and hit UC early and by the time UC makes adjustments its hard to come back.

(12-04-2017 01:44 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-04-2017 01:37 PM)Wudizzle Wrote:  

(12-04-2017 01:26 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  I get why Cronin was pissed. XU players keep pulling the same **** that lead to the Brawl 6 years ago. Constantly talking **** to the bench...cursing at players and coaches (particularly Macura, but other X players have in the past as well). Mack pretty much lets his guys do as they will and trusts because he is at a small private school that keeps things under wraps nobody will call them on it. Macura's BS is pretty widely known across the Big East.

That said, Mick looked terrible pulling the **** he did. You just got your ass beat, don't make a scene after the game. If you want to bring up Macura's actions bring them up calmly in the press conference after you've talked about the actual game and the performance of your team and their team. Bring it up in context of the brawl and the BS from the X fans you have to deal with in that arena. He looked petty and unprofessional the way he handled it.

Mick's a very good coach, but Mack absolutely has run circles around him in the crosstown shootout. Every single year (even in UC's wins) Mack has come out with a gameplan to jump UC early. This year he ran some great sets to get his bigs the ball against 1 on 1 defense near the rim and they converted every time. That set up X for some looks at 3 and they buried them. By the time UC countered they are down big. Last year was similar but it was at home and UC got the defensive stops they needed to make the run. This year X crushed UC on the glass and dictated the game throughout. Mack treats this game like its the biggest game of the year and his team comes out with a unique plan of attack every time.

Maybe Cronin should start treating this game like it's the biggest game of the year and his team wouldn't lose as often.

I don't disagree with you. It's a big rivalry with a crazy atmosphere, why not do what Mack does and treat the game as an enormous game. Mack had sets ready to go to attack UC in ways UC didn't expect. His fingerprints were all over the gameplan early and that's where XU has really owned the series over the last decade. They get out and hit UC early and by the time UC makes adjustments its hard to come back.

The early-season 6-pack of creampuffs UC had didn't help much either. I said if UC survived the first 10 minutes good competition, they'd win. They got destroyed in the first 10 minutes. X is good and there is still meat on the schedule bone, so there's not permanent damage done or anything.

It is a little odd though that UC basically had 8 weeks to get ready for this game from a practice/gameplan perspective, and they were most definitely not ready. X may have spent all summer prepping for this game, but they at least had to spend a few practices on scouting reports for other teams in the first month of the season.

(12-04-2017 01:32 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(12-04-2017 12:55 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  Cronin is a tough one... he's no superstar but you know what you're gonna get out of him. Everybody should look to UConn and Memphis when assessing the risk of replacing a coach. Do you replace a 7.75 (CB's official Mike Cronin Rating) in hopes of landing a 9 when the downside range is 7.75 to zero? The pot odds aren't good. Pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered. Right now Cincy would be smart in keeping Cronin until Cronin wants to retire.


T


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Great point, but the UConn (coach retired) and Memphis (coach left for Georgia Tech) analogies aren't comparable. The best example is Pitt and Jamie Dixon. Like Cronin at UC, Dixon started out as an assistant coach and spent 13 seasons at the helm for the Panthers (Cronin is in his 12th year). Overall, he won at a 72% clip at Pitt, winning the Big East a couple times, but bounced out early in the tournament. Pitt was growing weary of Dixon, so he left to go to TCU in 2014. Since that time Pitt has been the pitts, and the TCU program has risen.

The risk of replacing a coach is exactly the same whether or not they retire, change jobs, or were fired. The difference with Cincy would be that they initiated the risk rather than responded to it.

You don't want to allow fear to enter into any part of a strategic decision, but a careful analysis of the risk/reward must always be front and center. With that said; Cronin stays forever and is supported fully by the administration and fanbase until he proves otherwise. You don't can (or talk of canning) a coach that gets you to the Dance every year and wins a game or two on the grounds that he doesn't hit a Final Four.


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Cronin shows great passion and loyalty. I like the guy, except when we play Cincinnati.

(12-04-2017 01:44 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-04-2017 01:37 PM)Wudizzle Wrote:  

(12-04-2017 01:26 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  I get why Cronin was pissed. XU players keep pulling the same **** that lead to the Brawl 6 years ago. Constantly talking **** to the bench...cursing at players and coaches (particularly Macura, but other X players have in the past as well). Mack pretty much lets his guys do as they will and trusts because he is at a small private school that keeps things under wraps nobody will call them on it. Macura's BS is pretty widely known across the Big East.

That said, Mick looked terrible pulling the **** he did. You just got your ass beat, don't make a scene after the game. If you want to bring up Macura's actions bring them up calmly in the press conference after you've talked about the actual game and the performance of your team and their team. Bring it up in context of the brawl and the BS from the X fans you have to deal with in that arena. He looked petty and unprofessional the way he handled it.

Mick's a very good coach, but Mack absolutely has run circles around him in the crosstown shootout. Every single year (even in UC's wins) Mack has come out with a gameplan to jump UC early. This year he ran some great sets to get his bigs the ball against 1 on 1 defense near the rim and they converted every time. That set up X for some looks at 3 and they buried them. By the time UC countered they are down big. Last year was similar but it was at home and UC got the defensive stops they needed to make the run. This year X crushed UC on the glass and dictated the game throughout. Mack treats this game like its the biggest game of the year and his team comes out with a unique plan of attack every time.

Maybe Cronin should start treating this game like it's the biggest game of the year and his team wouldn't lose as often.

I don't disagree with you. It's a big rivalry with a crazy atmosphere, why not do what Mack does and treat the game as an enormous game. Mack had sets ready to go to attack UC in ways UC didn't expect. His fingerprints were all over the gameplan early and that's where XU has really owned the series over the last decade. They get out and hit UC early and by the time UC makes adjustments its hard to come back.

I assure you Cronin and Company wanted this game just as badly as Xavier. The game was lost due to a cupcake belly ache. Xavier was already well tested and had their learning opportunity against Arizona St. Now Cincy has their learning opportunity.


T


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Cinnccinnatti stinkss.

(12-04-2017 02:09 PM)fishpro1098 Wrote:  Cronin shows great passion and loyalty. I like the guy, except when we play Cincinnati.

(12-04-2017 02:10 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  I assure you Cronin and Company wanted this game just as badly as Xavier. The game was lost due to a cupcake belly ache. Xavier was already well tested and had their learning opportunity against Arizona St. Now Cincy has their learning opportunity.


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I don't disagree that Cronin wants the game, but his philosophy consistently seems to be, don't treat it different than the others. No special gameplan, no over focus on it...treat it like any game on the schedule. Mack seems to always come out with a wrinkle or two early UC isn't expecting and uses it to jump UC. Even the games UC has won they've often had to fight back from that initial X run.

(12-04-2017 08:35 AM)cotton1991 Wrote:  Mick's a real badazz. Used to steal Pastner's lunch money.

Come on... who didn't?

We aren't ready to run him out of town, but we are definitely tired of getting our asses handed to us against Xavier, losing early in the conference and NCAA tournaments, and completely forgetting how to run an offense when we play decent competition. The program has steadily improved in his 12 years, albeit at a glacial pace. But we're all waiting for the breakthrough. This year is supposed to be it, but most of us are a little skeptical. The percentage who want Cronin gone are, as was stated earlier, the lunatic fringe of the fan base. But if we flame out in the first weekend of the tournament again this year, Mick might feel a little heat. That said, he will coach here as long as he wants to if he keeps making the tournament.